He was fantastic against Tampa - by far his best game thus far.
Since then, there has been good & bad. He’s looked like a rookie in the WSH, MIN & NE games. Too many turnovers, but at the same time some really impressive throws/runs.
He threw the first TD against NE this year. This was a very tough spot for him against a defense which gave no separation.
Some good & some bad. What do you think? Are you confident we can have deep playoff runs with him under center?
October 2019. GTFO.
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First game was brilliant and encouraging. Since then he has thrown too many interceptions. Once the cinderella slippers come off and it's obvious he isn't running for any more for 1st downs since DCs figured out the delayed blitz trick; all your left with is a suspect Gettleman and shurmur decision with scouts who said he isn't nfl material. Gettlemen and shurmur have showed me nothing to indicate that they should be trusted or confidence instilling or capable of winning.
October 2019. GTFO.
meanwhile I was a Giants fan when you were in your diapers
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In comment 14624351 Big_N said:
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First game was brilliant and encouraging. Since then he has thrown too many interceptions. Once the cinderella slippers come off and it's obvious he isn't running for any more for 1st downs since DCs figured out the delayed blitz trick; all your left with is a suspect Gettleman and shurmur decision with scouts who said he isn't nfl material. Gettlemen and shurmur have showed me nothing to indicate that they should be trusted or confidence instilling or capable of winning.
October 2019. GTFO.
meanwhile I was a Giants fan when you were in your diapers
Okay cowboy.
Ask me again at the end of the season and I'll probably be able to have a better idea on him. Really looking forward to seeing him face some non-elite defenses with Barkley and Engram back.
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In comment 14624353 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 14624351 Big_N said:
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First game was brilliant and encouraging. Since then he has thrown too many interceptions. Once the cinderella slippers come off and it's obvious he isn't running for any more for 1st downs since DCs figured out the delayed blitz trick; all your left with is a suspect Gettleman and shurmur decision with scouts who said he isn't nfl material. Gettlemen and shurmur have showed me nothing to indicate that they should be trusted or confidence instilling or capable of winning.
October 2019. GTFO.
meanwhile I was a Giants fan when you were in your diapers
Okay cowboy.
probably a troll, but last night you said it was a "ridiculous take" to say that Jones was having a bad night and having difficulty processing the field, which are I think objective facts. So, I am not sure you have a lot of credibility in this debate either, even if you are not coming here to annoy people.
He’s fine. He’s going to throw picks. Most wbs not named Brady and Rodgers throw picks. Jones is going to successful qb in the nfl for a long time.
I’d love to see a vet qb outplay jones last night, in that spot. Rookie my ass.
He’s fine. He’s going to throw picks. Most wbs not named Brady and Rodgers throw picks. Jones is going to successful qb in the nfl for a long time.
Um yea. Throwing 2 picks in a row and should have been 3. Yea that sounds like a rookie thing to do to me. Redskins are such a terrible team they just couldn't capitalize on them . But to say Jones didn't play like a rookie in that game means you have no cred.
Far point that I agree with
So IMO these are normal rookie mistakes, misreading defenses, etc. Yes the WR's suck, but that still doesn't explain all these things away. You can throw it away or run instead. Sometimes its also a matter of moving onto the next read (like he didn't do on that pick early in the 3rd qtr.
As I said I am hopeful, and if he is the right stuff these mistakes will go away next year when things slow down for him
precisely right.. One can say he should be graded on a curve as a rook. But this was a bad game by an NFL QB in spite of the beautiful TD to Tate. You can say, it's a rookie thing and he will improve. And now he has to start improving.
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He's not gonna be the next Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers, but he can be as good as Eli, Roethlisberger, or Rivers. I'm happy with that.
Far point that I agree with
I don't know what Jones is going to be. Maybe he will be fantastic. But I haven't seen enough to say he can be as good as Roethlisberger. He has not flashed that kind of ability, yet..
How do you know that? Wishful thinking?
His floor is he's a bust. There is a non zero chance that he's not a QB you can win a championship with. Right now he looks like he could just as easily be Mariota as he could be Alex Smith.
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I think he can play.
Another question would be - are the right people developing/coaching him?
The answer to this is absolutely not. The people developing him right now are developing him to win five games a year.
Yep
Jones has the inherent traits necessary. Accuracy, timing and touch, you have it or don't. He can LEARN when to give up on a play. Game experience is the cure. No other way to learn it. This was why it was good to get him in early this year. I stand by that Jones is not going to be a good QB, he will be a great one. We just need time. Look at his 3rd and long stats, look at tight window throws.
It's called watching the games and having an opinion based on his performance and behavior through my lens as a lifetime football fan. Try it sometime, it's fun. The OP was how do 'I' feel about the player. 'I' answered it.
It's called watching the games and having an opinion based on his performance and behavior through my lens as a lifetime football fan. Try it sometime, it's fun. The OP was how do 'I' feel about the player. 'I' answered it.
When it comes to QB's. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I let that position marinate a bit before making
a judgement on a QB
Many people are not really football savvy and they are like lemmings, just parroting the crowd (talking heads for example). They see 3 interceptions and only 161 yards and they immediately think BAD GAME.
That is the furthest thing from the truth. Not all the interceptions were because of horrible passs.
1. Was a deflection. Yes the pass was a bit behind the receiver, but it was still deflected
2. His arm got hit while throwing
3.it looked like he didn’t see the safety in that zone. The pass was a good one to Ellison, but I don’t think he read the coverage.
Okay what else....
1. Did you notice DJ holding onto the ball, willing to,take a hit, hoping someone would get open? Tjere were just not guys getting open. No surprise....look who his receivers were. Ellison is slow, My grandma can blanket Latimer, and even Tate had a guy right next to him on ever6 pass he caught. For example, his td, the CB was all over Tate, but the pass was perfect and the dude fell down.
2. Yesterday did you notice the very strong winds especially going in one direction?
3. Pats were blitzing every down because they knew we had no RB to,worry about.
4. There was one series where DJ completed to Slayton for 9. Hilliman got stuffed on second down. Shurmur calls a pass on third and one obviously not trusting Hilliman to get that 1 yard, DJ takes a long time hoping someone gets open....no one does....incomplete.
Bottom line: no running game, no decent WRs or TE, a mediocre OL, blitzes every down, no separation...DANNY SHOWED ME TOUGHNESS BEING WILLING TO TAKE A LICK FOR A FIRST DOWN. By trying to make plays, you will get an interxeption occasionally. Anyone who criticizes Danny with all of these handicaps really lacks football acumen or has an agenda.
You may not be football savvy enough yourself if you think your reason number 2) was that his arm got hit.
Why did his arm get hit? He held onto the ball far too long, that's why. The OLine had nothing with the 3 picks
he threw tonight. He's a rook, so I am not surprised,
but with that said, that was his worst game so far.
He did make some good throws along the way.
BTW, the Pats 'were not blitzing on every down'...
that is hyperbolic.
How quickly will he take the next steps?
How quickly will he eliminated some of the rookie mistakes?
Is Shurmur the right coach to get the best out of him and the rest of the team?
All valid/unknown questions but there's more than enough there to be optimistic about Jones. Definitely more to be optimistic about with him (questions 1 & 2) than Shurmur (question 3) right now.
I like what I see so far. IMO he possesses the key traits necessary in becoming great. I get that some of you don't like speculation. The rest of us are allowed to speculate. I think I am right about Jones. All I know is, we had a chance in the 4th against the greatest QB and coach combination of all time with a rookie at the helm, with an untalented roster beset with injuries at key skill positions. I was pleased.
Many of you correctly pointed out that we could have lost with Eli in the same manner. Sure. It would not have felt the same. Daniel learned things, we are building a franchise QB. The loss with Jones has meaning. A loss with Eli meant delaying a return to respectability.
Jones has the inherent traits necessary. Accuracy, timing and touch, you have it or don't. He can LEARN when to give up on a play. Game experience is the cure. No other way to learn it. This was why it was good to get him in early this year. I stand by that Jones is not going to be a good QB, he will be a great one. We just need time. Look at his 3rd and long stats, look at tight window throws.
I'm sorry but your observations don't seem correct. For instance, he at times shows excellent accuracy. At other times he is clearly off the mark. He was often off the mark many times last night. That's not elite accuracy. You may say he was pressured or rookie mistakes, whatever. The point is that it is not clear to this point that his accuracy is elite. When he can hit his passes, play after play, game after game, then you can tell me he has elite accuracy. Until then he is a rook that has had a few great plays. I'm being honest here. Right now it is not obvious he is more accurate than a lot of other journeymen QBs.
It's called watching the games and having an opinion based on his performance and behavior through my lens as a lifetime football fan. Try it sometime, it's fun. The OP was how do 'I' feel about the player. 'I' answered it.
You said at minimum he is a championship QB. That's not thought police, that's quoting you. You really believe at minimum he's a championship QB? Then you would be comfortable putting $50K on that bet, right? I'm guessing no, Because you probably know that at minimum he's a bust. There are probably 500 QBs that have shown exactly what Jones has shown up to this point, and only a couple of dozen have proven to be championship QBs. Another bunch became journeymen, and the vast majority turned into nothing.
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I look for traits. I start with accuracy. Jones has elite accuracy. Then I look for the ability to handle pressure. Situational and actual. Jones handles both very well. Touch, he has it, he can flick his wrist in a way that makes the ball seem to float. Not all QBs do this well. Then timing, he does a very good job hitting receivers running in stride across the field. He can do it. Anticipation, can you throw the ball before the receiver breaks or are you a grip it and rip it guy? Jones throws with anticipation. Toughness, is the QB willing to be hit? Jones might be too brave. This is a concern for me. He never gives up on a play, he waits too long and this causes turn overs. He needs to recognize when to throw it away a half second sooner.
Jones has the inherent traits necessary. Accuracy, timing and touch, you have it or don't. He can LEARN when to give up on a play. Game experience is the cure. No other way to learn it. This was why it was good to get him in early this year. I stand by that Jones is not going to be a good QB, he will be a great one. We just need time. Look at his 3rd and long stats, look at tight window throws.
I'm sorry but your observations don't seem correct. For instance, he at times shows excellent accuracy. At other times he is clearly off the mark. He was often off the mark many times last night. That's not elite accuracy. You may say he was pressured or rookie mistakes, whatever. The point is that it is not clear to this point that his accuracy is elite. When he can hit his passes, play after play, game after game, then you can tell me he has elite accuracy. Until then he is a rook that has had a few great plays. I'm being honest here. Right now it is not obvious he is more accurate than a lot of other journeymen QBs.
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In comment 14624745 Thegratefulhead said:
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I look for traits. I start with accuracy. Jones has elite accuracy. Then I look for the ability to handle pressure. Situational and actual. Jones handles both very well. Touch, he has it, he can flick his wrist in a way that makes the ball seem to float. Not all QBs do this well. Then timing, he does a very good job hitting receivers running in stride across the field. He can do it. Anticipation, can you throw the ball before the receiver breaks or are you a grip it and rip it guy? Jones throws with anticipation. Toughness, is the QB willing to be hit? Jones might be too brave. This is a concern for me. He never gives up on a play, he waits too long and this causes turn overs. He needs to recognize when to throw it away a half second sooner.
Jones has the inherent traits necessary. Accuracy, timing and touch, you have it or don't. He can LEARN when to give up on a play. Game experience is the cure. No other way to learn it. This was why it was good to get him in early this year. I stand by that Jones is not going to be a good QB, he will be a great one. We just need time. Look at his 3rd and long stats, look at tight window throws.
I'm sorry but your observations don't seem correct. For instance, he at times shows excellent accuracy. At other times he is clearly off the mark. He was often off the mark many times last night. That's not elite accuracy. You may say he was pressured or rookie mistakes, whatever. The point is that it is not clear to this point that his accuracy is elite. When he can hit his passes, play after play, game after game, then you can tell me he has elite accuracy. Until then he is a rook that has had a few great plays. I'm being honest here. Right now it is not obvious he is more accurate than a lot of other journeymen QBs.
Wrong, he is and there are stats to back that up. He is the top in the NFL right now on tight window throws. That is one better Patriot defenses. He has thrown a bunch of perfect passes in a very short career.
His accuracy was terrible the last two weeks. You don't know what you're seeing? Throwing one or two great passes doesn't make his accuracy last night elite. Every single QB in the league, including the trash ones like Trubisky and Mariota can throw one or two great passes. You simply aren't being objective. I have high hopes for Jones. I was happy about the pick and think he can still be great potentially. But last night and the last two weeks make it hard to tell what his accuracy is. That's all i'm saying. Saying he has elite accuracy is kind of absurd and is a disservice to QBs with actual elite accuracy like Rodgers, Brady and not too many others.
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In comment 14625153 AndyMilligan said:
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In comment 14624745 Thegratefulhead said:
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I look for traits. I start with accuracy. Jones has elite accuracy. Then I look for the ability to handle pressure. Situational and actual. Jones handles both very well. Touch, he has it, he can flick his wrist in a way that makes the ball seem to float. Not all QBs do this well. Then timing, he does a very good job hitting receivers running in stride across the field. He can do it. Anticipation, can you throw the ball before the receiver breaks or are you a grip it and rip it guy? Jones throws with anticipation. Toughness, is the QB willing to be hit? Jones might be too brave. This is a concern for me. He never gives up on a play, he waits too long and this causes turn overs. He needs to recognize when to throw it away a half second sooner.
Jones has the inherent traits necessary. Accuracy, timing and touch, you have it or don't. He can LEARN when to give up on a play. Game experience is the cure. No other way to learn it. This was why it was good to get him in early this year. I stand by that Jones is not going to be a good QB, he will be a great one. We just need time. Look at his 3rd and long stats, look at tight window throws.
I'm sorry but your observations don't seem correct. For instance, he at times shows excellent accuracy. At other times he is clearly off the mark. He was often off the mark many times last night. That's not elite accuracy. You may say he was pressured or rookie mistakes, whatever. The point is that it is not clear to this point that his accuracy is elite. When he can hit his passes, play after play, game after game, then you can tell me he has elite accuracy. Until then he is a rook that has had a few great plays. I'm being honest here. Right now it is not obvious he is more accurate than a lot of other journeymen QBs.
Wrong, he is and there are stats to back that up. He is the top in the NFL right now on tight window throws. That is one better Patriot defenses. He has thrown a bunch of perfect passes in a very short career.
His accuracy was terrible the last two weeks. You don't know what you're seeing? Throwing one or two great passes doesn't make his accuracy last night elite. Every single QB in the league, including the trash ones like Trubisky and Mariota can throw one or two great passes. You simply aren't being objective. I have high hopes for Jones. I was happy about the pick and think he can still be great potentially. But last night and the last two weeks make it hard to tell what his accuracy is. That's all i'm saying. Saying he has elite accuracy is kind of absurd and is a disservice to QBs with actual elite accuracy like Rodgers, Brady and not too many others.
"Of Jones’ 31 attempts, 15 were forced into tight windows (receivers with less than a yard of separation), according to Next Gen Stats. That was the most attempts into tight windows of any quarterback in a game over the past two seasons." No Moral Victories - ( New Window )
From another thread this morning:
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0.62 yards of separation when the pass arrived to Golden Tate on his 64-yard reception. Jones' throw was that good on the play. It dropped perfectly over the outstretched hand of cornerback Jonathan Jones. Tate juggled it, the defender fell and Tate raced to the end zone.
But this was a trend. Tate averaged 1.10 yards of separation in the contest on nine targets. Jones made 48 percent of his throws into a tight window, the highest rate by any QB in a game of the past four seasons when Next Gen date became available. His average target separation of 1.80 yards was also the worst by any QB in a game over that span.
The average target separation entering Thursday was 3.4 yards across the NFL this season.
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In comment 14625182 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 14625153 AndyMilligan said:
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In comment 14624745 Thegratefulhead said:
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I look for traits. I start with accuracy. Jones has elite accuracy. Then I look for the ability to handle pressure. Situational and actual. Jones handles both very well. Touch, he has it, he can flick his wrist in a way that makes the ball seem to float. Not all QBs do this well. Then timing, he does a very good job hitting receivers running in stride across the field. He can do it. Anticipation, can you throw the ball before the receiver breaks or are you a grip it and rip it guy? Jones throws with anticipation. Toughness, is the QB willing to be hit? Jones might be too brave. This is a concern for me. He never gives up on a play, he waits too long and this causes turn overs. He needs to recognize when to throw it away a half second sooner.
Jones has the inherent traits necessary. Accuracy, timing and touch, you have it or don't. He can LEARN when to give up on a play. Game experience is the cure. No other way to learn it. This was why it was good to get him in early this year. I stand by that Jones is not going to be a good QB, he will be a great one. We just need time. Look at his 3rd and long stats, look at tight window throws.
I'm sorry but your observations don't seem correct. For instance, he at times shows excellent accuracy. At other times he is clearly off the mark. He was often off the mark many times last night. That's not elite accuracy. You may say he was pressured or rookie mistakes, whatever. The point is that it is not clear to this point that his accuracy is elite. When he can hit his passes, play after play, game after game, then you can tell me he has elite accuracy. Until then he is a rook that has had a few great plays. I'm being honest here. Right now it is not obvious he is more accurate than a lot of other journeymen QBs.
Wrong, he is and there are stats to back that up. He is the top in the NFL right now on tight window throws. That is one better Patriot defenses. He has thrown a bunch of perfect passes in a very short career.
His accuracy was terrible the last two weeks. You don't know what you're seeing? Throwing one or two great passes doesn't make his accuracy last night elite. Every single QB in the league, including the trash ones like Trubisky and Mariota can throw one or two great passes. You simply aren't being objective. I have high hopes for Jones. I was happy about the pick and think he can still be great potentially. But last night and the last two weeks make it hard to tell what his accuracy is. That's all i'm saying. Saying he has elite accuracy is kind of absurd and is a disservice to QBs with actual elite accuracy like Rodgers, Brady and not too many others.
They have bad games too. The wind was tough last night.
"Of Jones’ 31 attempts, 15 were forced into tight windows (receivers with less than a yard of separation), according to Next Gen Stats. That was the most attempts into tight windows of any quarterback in a game over the past two seasons." No Moral Victories - ( New Window )
From another thread this morning:
Quote:
0.62 yards of separation when the pass arrived to Golden Tate on his 64-yard reception. Jones' throw was that good on the play. It dropped perfectly over the outstretched hand of cornerback Jonathan Jones. Tate juggled it, the defender fell and Tate raced to the end zone.
But this was a trend. Tate averaged 1.10 yards of separation in the contest on nine targets. Jones made 48 percent of his throws into a tight window, the highest rate by any QB in a game of the past four seasons when Next Gen date became available. His average target separation of 1.80 yards was also the worst by any QB in a game over that span.
The average target separation entering Thursday was 3.4 yards across the NFL this season.
you know who was bad last night, then cleaned it up? Tom Brady. He looked terrible for the first quarter and a half then by the third Q he had completed 12 passes in a row. That's elite accuracy. There are no next gen stats that are going to turn 15-31 with 3 horrendous INTs into the dictionary definition of elite accuracy.
he kind of does look that way..
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like he's the second coming of Eli Manning when Eli was young..
he kind of does look that way..
What are you guys even watching? Are you trying to prove your good giants fans or something? I wish Jones could play like this and show me signs of briliance like in 2:20 of the clip; which was a sign of more to come. Instead it has been 2 scrambles in one great game and the rest awful play mostly with some routine slants that Engram breaks a tackle and makes it a big play
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14625226 Jersey55 said:
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like he's the second coming of Eli Manning when Eli was young..
he kind of does look that way..
What are you guys even watching? Are you trying to prove your good giants fans or something? I wish Jones could play like this and show me signs of briliance like in 2:20 of the clip; which was a sign of more to come. Instead it has been 2 scrambles in one great game and the rest awful play mostly with some routine slants that Engram breaks a tackle and makes it a big play Link - ( New Window )
I don't know what Jersey55 meant but I remember Eli's early days as being pretty bad. A lot of poor decisions and turnovers..
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In comment 14625239 AndyMilligan said:
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In comment 14625226 Jersey55 said:
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like he's the second coming of Eli Manning when Eli was young..
he kind of does look that way..
What are you guys even watching? Are you trying to prove your good giants fans or something? I wish Jones could play like this and show me signs of briliance like in 2:20 of the clip; which was a sign of more to come. Instead it has been 2 scrambles in one great game and the rest awful play mostly with some routine slants that Engram breaks a tackle and makes it a big play Link - ( New Window )
I don't know what Jersey55 meant but I remember Eli's early days as being pretty bad. A lot of poor decisions and turnovers..
It's been so many years now but whatever in the referenced game he went 16 of 23 2 td 1 int with 104 rating. Do I really have to go back and pull the others?? Jones had one game like that against tampa bay of all things the rest of the time his rating is in the 70s to 60s. Yet out come the excuses this morning of how jones didn't really play a bad game yesterday. It's like Eli haters don't want to admit that they were wrong and this team didn't just magically get good with the benching of Eli.
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Some good, some bad. Time will tell.
Pretty much how I feel. Jury's out, but I'm somewhat encouraged. I see flashes of excellence.
+1
We really won't have a definitive answer on him until DC get enough film on him that they can expose some of his weaknesses. Then DJ has to respond and adjust his game. So we won't really know until after next season.
That said, he is showing a lot more than I expected at this point. He makes some really outstanding throws. However, he is still haunted by some judgement errors that I saw in watching his college videos. While these still concern me, I am hopeful that its coachable.
Yea ok you're on the losing end of an argument so you have to use the t word. Look he had some good throws and some bad rookie mistakes. he could be the guy going forward, But he has not shown any flashes of brilliance like eli or Ben while young since his first game which could mean a preparation problem from TB. This team is pretty much the same mediocre team with him or with Eli. And pointing that out makes me a troll then so be it. I just think you're an eli hater who thought this team was magically going to get better after benching Eli and IT DIDN'T.
Exactly my thoughts. He’s definitely got some physical talent and he’s smart but still making a lot of rookie mistakes.
So given that, here's what I like:
He throws a nice, accurate, catchable ball with good touch.
He gets right back up and shrugs it off when hit.
He recognizes when he fucks up, but he doesn't dwell on it.
He can run for a first, and run away from pressure.
I don't know if he's clutch or not. Don't know if he has a killer instinct or other intangibles that one looks for in a championship caliber QB. He seems like a decent, talented guy with plenty of potential and a lot to learn.
I'm certainly not ready to call him a bust. At this point I'm willing to give him another entire season and the start of a third to get his shit together based on what I've see so far. My thoughts may change based on what he shows the rest of the way this year, but I have high hopes for him. I already like him better than Graham or Kanell or Brown. Even Collins for that matter. So let's wait and see some more.