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If Barkley, Shepard, Engram play, we had a good shot...

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/11/2019 8:59 am
of winning. Against the undefeated Super Bowl Champions. In their stadium. On Thursday night as the away team.

I'm not big into "moral" victories, but that is a very good sign.
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arcarsenal : 10/11/2019 10:50 am : link
Sure I can... but I'm not going to sit here and pity the Patriots for the team they had to go out there with last night at home. They still had more than enough talent to score points and win the game.

Before the game was played, people were almost universally predicting that the Giants would get absolutely murdered. It's almost like some of you guys are disappointed that they didn't.
How much motivation do you really think the Pats had last night...  
M.S. : 10/11/2019 10:53 am : link

...playing a lower tier team without all its offensive weapons?

It's not like the Pats were playing a top team to decide which one gets homefield advantage throughout the playoffs.

The fact that the Giants hung tough against the Pats means jack-shit. The Pats played as hard as they needed to in order to beat the lowly Giants.

The Pats took care of business. Full stop.
I was very pleased by how some of the younger defensive  
Jimmy Googs : 10/11/2019 10:57 am : link
players played, showing talent and aggressiveness.

And conversely, pissed off at how bad some of the veteran defensive players played, showing age and poor football instincts...
RE: How much motivation do you really think the Pats had last night...  
arcarsenal : 10/11/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14624492 M.S. said:
Quote:

...playing a lower tier team without all its offensive weapons?

It's not like the Pats were playing a top team to decide which one gets homefield advantage throughout the playoffs.

The fact that the Giants hung tough against the Pats means jack-shit. The Pats played as hard as they needed to in order to beat the lowly Giants.

The Pats took care of business. Full stop.


Pretty sure a Belichick coached team doesn't need homefield advantage in the playoffs to be on the line to find motivation to win a football game.

You don't put the type of sheer dominance they have on display with that mentality.

This is all nonsense.
Even if we just had Barkley  
Les in TO : 10/11/2019 11:10 am : link
It would have been a much closer affair
If you are not encouraged by last nights game  
Rudy5757 : 10/11/2019 11:22 am : link
you are just looking to be at all the bad. we are one of the youngest teams in the league. All of our stars on O are out and we found a way to compete with a team that is far superior from top to bottom. Say what you want about the coach and players but they played hard to the end. Thats what you want to see from your team, players that compete.

When we won our 2007 Superbowl we lost to the Pats in the final game but that proved to the team that we could compete with any team in the league and it carried us to the championship. i/m not saying that we will win the Superbowl, Im saying that this is a building block game.

there was a lot that went wrong early, mainly the blocked punt and some teams would have folded. But these guys played hard and had a chance late in the game. the score doesnt reflect that.
RE: RE: Gettleman’s idea for this team  
Simms11 : 10/11/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14624319 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14624308 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


and rotate construction screams of Mike McCarthy. I’d back up the truck for him in 2020 if Shurmur is gone



I don't think much of Mike McCarthy as others, but theres a lot of Aaron Rodgers game without the personality problems in DJ. I'd think he'd jump at the chance to coach us.


McCarthy would be a good choice, however, maybe we need a defensive minded coach now. We need to get back to Giants dominating Defense.
I think the best way to look at Shurmur  
Dave on the UWS : 10/11/2019 11:30 am : link
is he can get the team to a certain point. Competitive, maybe even playoff challengers, but he doesn’t seem to be a HC you can win with. The problem is, if you can him, you start all over. That’s why hiring the right guy is THE most important factor to a turn around. He’s an upgrade over Mac, but doesn’t look like THE right guy. THAT’s a MAJOR problem!
RE: .  
jcn56 : 10/11/2019 11:33 am : link
In comment 14624487 arcarsenal said:
Quote:


Before the game was played, people were almost universally predicting that the Giants would get absolutely murdered. It's almost like some of you guys are disappointed that they didn't.


Flip that one around a bit - I think some people are being far too complimentary of a team that lost 35-14, in a game that they were never really a threat to win, where most of the defensive performance could be chalked up to a combination of Brady playing like shit and bad weather.

It's nice that they didn't get killed. It's not a sign that they're just about to turn the corner. They got murdered against the Vikings. Let's see what the next challenges hold, in teams that should be a lot closer to the Giants in talent level.
There were definitely good signs in this game....  
Simms11 : 10/11/2019 11:34 am : link
Giants were competitive and really it was much closer then score indicated, but if push came to shove, Pats could’ve moved the ball. They pretty much owned TOP 40 mins to 20. They controlled the game moreso in second half, but for the first time in a while, I was kind of excited to see a semblance of a real D.
RE: RE: .  
arcarsenal : 10/11/2019 11:40 am : link
In comment 14624616 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14624487 arcarsenal said:


Quote:




Before the game was played, people were almost universally predicting that the Giants would get absolutely murdered. It's almost like some of you guys are disappointed that they didn't.



Flip that one around a bit - I think some people are being far too complimentary of a team that lost 35-14, in a game that they were never really a threat to win, where most of the defensive performance could be chalked up to a combination of Brady playing like shit and bad weather.

It's nice that they didn't get killed. It's not a sign that they're just about to turn the corner. They got murdered against the Vikings. Let's see what the next challenges hold, in teams that should be a lot closer to the Giants in talent level.


It's okay to give the Giants a smidge of credit sometimes. Not everything has to be chalked up to external factors like Brady playing shitty or the weather... we can say that the defense played better than expected but still have a ways to go.

Our QB had to play in the same crappy weather. So, if it was so detrimental to Brady, Jones - a rookie - should certainly be afforded that same excuse. Especially when he was without his RB, his RB's primary backup, his top WR, and his TE.

We can also find some encouraging signs without it needing to mean they're about to turn the corner.

I agree a team like Arizona should allow us to see if we're actually ascending at all or if we're just going week to week. Hopefully we'll have Barkley and Engram back. Who knows with Shepard.
Last week the Giants had...  
M.S. : 10/11/2019 11:44 am : link

...Evan Engram and Sterling Shepard and got their asses kicked up and down the field. So BFD they played better against the Pats with these two guys gone (along with Barkley.)

Who cares?

Daniel Jones has shown us some things that he (and the team) can build upon.

But as for this entire Giants team led by Pat Shurmur?

They got destroyed by Dallas; destroyed by Buffalo; destroyed by Minny; and hung in there against a Pats team that doubled our offensive output; doubled our time of possession; and came out 3 TDs ahead.

You are what your record says you are. That goes for the Giants at 2-4 and Pat Shurmur as a Head Coach 17-38.

For those who believe things are looking up. Great!
There's no doubt  
JonC : 10/11/2019 11:45 am : link
there's progress demonstrated in terms of fielding a hungry determined team that fights until the end. That's foundation progress in addition to the young talent they've assembled
I don't see Jones really getting much grief today, though  
jcn56 : 10/11/2019 11:46 am : link
I think he had a bad game - and obviously, had more than enough contributing factors for that.

I think Brady had a shit game, and while he had some contributing factors, he should have done a much better job. Some of that was definitely on the Giants D, but a lot of it was just Brady leaving plays on the table.
I have said repeatedly in other threads that...  
Greg from LI : 10/11/2019 11:53 am : link
....I'm not at all concerned with Jones' performance last night because there were so many factors working against him, including the wind. So while there may be some people giving that to Brady but not Jones, I'm not one of them.
Signs are looking up  
DavidinBMNY : 10/11/2019 12:31 pm : link
"So your saying there's a chance" Means a heck of a lot. The team doesn't completely stink. There is some talent and reason for hope. They really need to find a 3 game winning streak somehow, someway, starting in one of the next 3 weeks to be playing meaningful football, but even if they don't they are better then the worst teams in the league. They were in the absolute bottom tier the past 2 years. Now they are at least 1 tier ahead of Miami and Washington. And they actually did win 2 in a row so it's not out of question they could find a way to win 3 in a row. Unlikely, but not completely crazy.
The injury excuse  
Vanzetti : 10/11/2019 12:35 pm : link
How many years did we have to hear that the Giants misfortunes under Coughlin were because of injuries?

Patriots came out flat against Giants as top teams often do against weak competitors. Then they took control of the game and won by 21 points.

If Barkley, Engram, and Shep were healthy, you would have seen a much more focused Patriot team and probably the same type of lopsided result.

Also, Patriots were missing signficant personnel as well.


RE: To be fair..  
Go Terps : 10/11/2019 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14624334 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
the board is mainly driven by pessimism. And I'm not sure many fans are going to think a guy who hasn't had a winning record is good.

I honestly don't know what we have with Shurmur. I personally don't think he's a good coach, but I've been wrong on those assessments before.

We likely have a poor coach and a poor team. But you literally had posters last night calling him the worst coach in the league. I think one guy said he's the worst coach ever.

The dilemma we face is that a different coach isn't likely producing substantially different results with this team, so how do you evaluate what you have?


It's not pessimism, it's reality. The Giants are and have been a terrible football team. I know we lead the NFL in excuses and moral victories, but the numbers don't lie.
FMiC  
Daniel in MI : 10/11/2019 12:57 pm : link
you're point about coaches with bad teams making inconsistent decisions rings true to me.

I remember one year, Fassel clearly thought we had a good team and in the early part of the year he got very aggressive. We started going on 4th a lot more than we had before. But, it seemed the team was determined to let him down every time. This culminated with the famous pick six at the end of the first half versus the Cards. After that, McNally no longer had to hold onto his nuts because JF withdrew his chips from mid-table.

With the way our D played early in the year, it made sense to be more aggressive on 4th, because our D was not holding anyone up. In THIS game, our D was playing OK (but fading admittedly and I'd have gone for it in the 4th quarter there). I think he punted there because for this one game they way our D was playing, it felt like we might get a 3 and out. Of course they let him down. Just like when he called a timeout earlier in the game to save time at the end of the first half. If Peppers makes a tackle, that might have been a good call. But he whiffed, and it didn't really matter (though PS was getting beat up for it anyway here, though I don't know why since it had virtually no impact either way).
RE: The injury excuse  
M.S. : 10/11/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14624748 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
How many years did we have to hear that the Giants misfortunes under Coughlin were because of injuries?

Patriots came out flat against Giants as top teams often do against weak competitors. Then they took control of the game and won by 21 points.

If Barkley, Engram, and Shep were healthy, you would have seen a much more focused Patriot team and probably the same type of lopsided result.

Also, Patriots were missing signficant personnel as well.


Yep... this is what I was trying to say before, but you said it way much better!
RE: I was very encouraged....  
Bluesbreaker : 10/12/2019 4:22 pm : link
In comment 14624163 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Loved the way the defense played.

Loved the fact that DJ came back out after throwing 2 INT's and threw a TD pass to Tate.

Very encouraged by that performance.


Unless your Greg "he wet blanket " from LI .
We certainly didn't look like the 30th ranked defense .
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