By the normal standards you'd grade a QB on whether they were the reason you won or lost the game, he had a bad game. I think that's how a lot of people view last night.
I never really believed we had a shot last night (until the game actually started). 17 point dogs, on the road, against the defending champs who are 5-0, without arguably your three biggest weapons on offense (the stat said Shepard, Engram, and Barkley accounted for 65% of all of NYG's offensive yards so far this season, that's a crazy stat). What I wanted to see from Jones was what I referred to earlier in the week as a gut check. Like the Clemson game. How would he respond?
I got my answer in the 2nd quarter when after throwing 2 INT's, he comes right back out and hits Tate downfield for the TD. That was Eli like. Shrugged off the INT's, and keep chucking it.
The other thing that encouraged me, is that the mistakes I see Jones make are usually in regards to a missed throw, or holding the ball too long... Very rarely do I see him make the wrong read, and that's huge. Especially last night, against Belichick, who as they kept showing last night, is 11-0 against rookie QB's in his building. And that defense was tough last night.
Those things are correctable. His mental makeup, both in regards to reading defenses and also his resiliency, makes me feel really good about him going forward. I think this guy is going to be really, really good. I don't really care about the stat line last night.
But that was the right read and would have been a TD if he hit it.
Was it an ugly game on O? Yes. Great performance by Jones? No. But I think he played admirably under the circumstances.
I gotta admit it was the first time in a long time despite the score that I went to bed feeling ok about this loss. Four of our best offensive players out and still kept it a game for 3 qtrs.
No Moral Victories - ( New Window )
From another thread this morning:
But this was a trend. Tate averaged 1.10 yards of separation in the contest on nine targets. Jones made 48 percent of his throws into a tight window, the highest rate by any QB in a game of the past four seasons when Next Gen date became available. His average target separation of 1.80 yards was also the worst by any QB in a game over that span.
The average target separation entering Thursday was 3.4 yards across the NFL this season.
Seems to me it was probably a combination of who he was throwing to, and the level of defense he was playing against.
Throw in a smart veteran well oiled D laced with talent and putrid RBs that takes away half your playcalls.
They disguised that zone INT pretty well last night. I doubt he makes that mistake again.
You hope that he learns from mistakes when he threw the interception underneath where he misread the single safety. By all accounts he’s a smart guy so confident he will course correct.
I feel like he’s the right guy to lead this team going forward.
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he doesn't get baited into throwing into double coverage. He doesn't throw those sort of "WTF" INT's that don't seem to have any rhyme or reason to them.
They disguised that zone INT pretty well last night. I doubt he makes that mistake again.
The 3rd one? Yeah, to some degree. But even in rewatching that today, I thought the Ellison could have run a better route on that. He could have undercut that a bit.
Yeah, maybe... Is there a problem with that?
Or should we just focus on the negative with laser-like focus while completely ignoring anything positive.
That's not how I like to watch a rookie, or football in general. To each their own.
I wonder what the 'N' stands for in 'Big_N'. Anyone have a guess?
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he doesn't get baited into throwing into double coverage. He doesn't throw those sort of "WTF" INT's that don't seem to have any rhyme or reason to them.
They disguised that zone INT pretty well last night. I doubt he makes that mistake again.
It was cover 2. I don’t think jones was fooled on the look as much as the pats were varying the cover 2 looks. Sometimes the corners would sink more. On that particular play jones thought the corner would sit lower and he kept dropping.
Um, yes. It's the process with a rookie QB, especially with the deck stacked against him like last night. You analyze mistakes. You evaluate positive elements of his game. You look for progress. I wonder what all those clamoring to play the kid actually expected. Jones' development is what this season is all about.
But that was the right read and would have been a TD if he hit it.
The wind took that ball big time. Brady went against the wind the next qtr and threw 15 yard passes were pushed 5 yards out. What was encouraging was Dj completing some into the wind. Unlike our playoff game vs Philly we could have won had Carr played.
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It's going to be "so he threw 3 picks and lost the game BUT here is what is good...."
Yeah, maybe... Is there a problem with that?
Or should we just focus on the negative with laser-like focus while completely ignoring anything positive.
That's not how I like to watch a rookie, or football in general. To each their own.
Yea I got a problem with it. You have 700k a game future HOL sitting on a bench who was obviously not the problem with this team.
You have a rookie qb who aside from one good game doesn't look very promising.
You have a terrible GM and coach.
Rather than say hooray we won a game every 2 months lets wait till next year. I think it is obvious what needs to be done. Shurmur / Gettleman has to go.
You get a real head coach like that guy from the cowboys ; the OC; You start Eli overhaul this D and the o line and make a run for it next year.
The stats don't look great, but as has been mentioned before, I do not think any of the throws were terrible reads (save for maybe the last one). The first throw he was late on and it was an errant pass. The second INT he waited too long to throw away and it led to his arm getting hit. The 3rd one he was fooled on, but I still think Ellison ran a shit route and rounded it off. Engram is faster and would probably get to that point where DJ threw it and at least cause an incomplete.
All in all, last night was a great learning experience for DJ and he kept battling. When he has a threat of a run game going forward, the RPO will come back into the playbook and that will only help. The future is bright for #8 and I saw a lot of the same great glimpses I saw from Eli in his first year that led me to believe he was the answer for the future.
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In comment 14624490 Big_N said:
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It's going to be "so he threw 3 picks and lost the game BUT here is what is good...."
Yeah, maybe... Is there a problem with that?
Or should we just focus on the negative with laser-like focus while completely ignoring anything positive.
That's not how I like to watch a rookie, or football in general. To each their own.
Yea I got a problem with it. You have 700k a game future HOL sitting on a bench who was obviously not the problem with this team.
You have a rookie qb who aside from one good game doesn't look very promising.
You have a terrible GM and coach.
Rather than say hooray we won a game every 2 months lets wait till next year. I think it is obvious what needs to be done. Shurmur / Gettleman has to go.
You get a real head coach like that guy from the cowboys ; the OC; You start Eli overhaul this D and the o line and make a run for it next year.
HAHAH hold up, a real head coach like that guy from the Cowboys? The OC that has led his unit to 3 good games against the Giants defense, the Dolphins, and the Redskins and two terrible games against the Saints and Packers? I can't tell if you are joking. I really hope you are.
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In comment 14624494 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14624490 Big_N said:
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It's going to be "so he threw 3 picks and lost the game BUT here is what is good...."
Yeah, maybe... Is there a problem with that?
Or should we just focus on the negative with laser-like focus while completely ignoring anything positive.
That's not how I like to watch a rookie, or football in general. To each their own.
Yea I got a problem with it. You have 700k a game future HOL sitting on a bench who was obviously not the problem with this team.
You have a rookie qb who aside from one good game doesn't look very promising.
You have a terrible GM and coach.
Rather than say hooray we won a game every 2 months lets wait till next year. I think it is obvious what needs to be done. Shurmur / Gettleman has to go.
You get a real head coach like that guy from the cowboys ; the OC; You start Eli overhaul this D and the o line and make a run for it next year.
HAHAH hold up, a real head coach like that guy from the Cowboys? The OC that has led his unit to 3 good games against the Giants defense, the Dolphins, and the Redskins and two terrible games against the Saints and Packers? I can't tell if you are joking. I really hope you are.
This poster is either a troll, or just really fucking obtuse. I'd ignore him.
The elite arm thing doesn't bother me. I would put that 3rd or 4th on the list of things you need to see from a good QB. You see guys like Rivers, Brees, Wilson, Watson, and Brady succeeding without elite arm talent.
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a top 10 NFL QB but he is location thrower and does not have an elite arm. So he needs to learn what he can and can't do and he is. He also needs a much better surrounding roster in all areas except RB and a better HC which I don't think he's going to get.
The elite arm thing doesn't bother me. I would put that 3rd or 4th on the list of things you need to see from a good QB. You see guys like Rivers, Brees, Wilson, Watson, and Brady succeeding without elite arm talent.
Wilson and Watson have flashed pretty good arms..
The tackling is a real issue, so many weak miss arm tackles, what happened to shoulder in the belt buckle.
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I went to bed feeling okay about it all.
I gotta admit it was the first time in a long time despite the score that I went to bed feeling ok about this loss. Four of our best offensive players out and still kept it a game for 3 qtrs.
Agree completely. I don't think Jones is our problem at all, esp. given he's a rookie and that's BB coaching the other team. We were missing our best offensive players (other than DJ), our defense ran out of gas (and isn't that great yet to begin with), and the blocked punt was a killer. I think we'll win next game.
That puts DJ in an impossible situation. Either throw into tight windows and risk interceptions, or give up on completions and try to run around versus a pretty good pass rush. He forced some things, and the D made him pay because that's what good Ds do (it's hard for us to remember that). Side note: will we ever have a WR that can make a contested catch? FFS
I was encouraged that we moved the ball at times, and that he didn't look overwhelmed by the moment (national TV, short week, BB's D, away, etc.).
Let's remember, as a rookie Eli had that Raven's game where he had a QB rating of 0.0. I happen to be at that game which was in Baltimore, and it was totally depressing. At no point did the O look as good as it did for short stretches last night. It was utter futility. We didn't look great, but we didn't look like we were overwhelmed most of the time last night. And with a very depleted cast of characters.
If DJ gets a little run game help, and a little separation from WRs, and some blocking (preferably on the same plays)? I don't think there's much doubt he can perform. I'm not saying it all has to be great for him to succeed like it felt with Eli the last couple of years, just a bit more help than he's getting now and I think DJ can move the team. He's going to throw INTs, he's going to miss open guys. All QBs do. I'm more concerned that he doesn't become so obsessed with not throwing INTs that he won't put it out there. As Aikman said, and I believe, accuracy is a thing you have or you don't. It doesn't seem to get better. DJ has it and if we can give him a chance to use it, he seem like he can succeed. Each outing is experience, as long as he doesn't take away the wrong lesson. I'm glad he kept ripping it last night. Better than folding the tent, checking down constantly, or trying to run on every play.
But what is encouraging is he didn't crawl into a shell. Instead, he came out firing and stayed aggressive
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In comment 14624490 Big_N said:
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It's going to be "so he threw 3 picks and lost the game BUT here is what is good...."
Yeah, maybe... Is there a problem with that?
Or should we just focus on the negative with laser-like focus while completely ignoring anything positive.
That's not how I like to watch a rookie, or football in general. To each their own.
Yea I got a problem with it. You have 700k a game future HOL sitting on a bench who was obviously not the problem with this team.
You have a rookie qb who aside from one good game doesn't look very promising.
You have a terrible GM and coach.
Rather than say hooray we won a game every 2 months lets wait till next year. I think it is obvious what needs to be done. Shurmur / Gettleman has to go.
You get a real head coach like that guy from the cowboys ; the OC; You start Eli overhaul this D and the o line and make a run for it next year.
You sound like the owner of the Browns... fire everyone and start over every couple of years. That is a guaranteed formula for remaining a bottom of the barrel team.
Jones has the inherent traits necessary. Accuracy, timing and touch, you have it or don't. He can LEARN when to give up on a play. Game experience is the cure. No other way to learn it. This was why it was good to get him in early this year. I stand by that Jones is not going to be a good QB, he will be a great one. We just need time. Look at his 3rd and long stats, look at tight window throws.
But that was the right read and would have been a TD if he hit it.
Even if he placed it perfectly, there's a good chance the safety would've been able to make a play also
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In comment 14624494 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 14624490 Big_N said:
Quote:
It's going to be "so he threw 3 picks and lost the game BUT here is what is good...."
Yeah, maybe... Is there a problem with that?
Or should we just focus on the negative with laser-like focus while completely ignoring anything positive.
That's not how I like to watch a rookie, or football in general. To each their own.
Yea I got a problem with it. You have 700k a game future HOL sitting on a bench who was obviously not the problem with this team.
You have a rookie qb who aside from one good game doesn't look very promising.
You have a terrible GM and coach.
Rather than say hooray we won a game every 2 months lets wait till next year. I think it is obvious what needs to be done. Shurmur / Gettleman has to go.
You get a real head coach like that guy from the cowboys ; the OC; You start Eli overhaul this D and the o line and make a run for it next year.
HAHAH hold up, a real head coach like that guy from the Cowboys? The OC that has led his unit to 3 good games against the Giants defense, the Dolphins, and the Redskins and two terrible games against the Saints and Packers? I can't tell if you are joking. I really hope you are.
yea ok buddy. your opinions on kellen moore are just that opinions.
the facts are pretty much if Dallas doesn't win the super bowl he pretty much has the HC job in dallas (if someone else doesn't get him first).
in particular, all turnovers arent created equal. some of his were high risk low reward- those are TOs that frequently bothered me with Eli. throwing a 6 yard pass into traffic with no upside is different then airing one downfield 40 yards and the corner makes a good play-
but overall nothing last night takes away from the positive view on him, his supporting cast might have been the worst in nfl history at the skill positions- but they battled.
What you need to watch is whether other DC's can pull off the same or some version of it and whether Jones can adjust his game.