Question for Eric & BBI offense pundits

I was more spit-balling since I didn't think the defense would be able to hang with the Patriots.

Giants were really in a tough spot. Without Barkley, they have no running game. Without Barkley, Engram, and Shepard as receivers, the Patriots only had to worry about Tate. (Shepard is coming along, but he's still a rookie).

I would have liked to have seen more of Penny. It's hard to use a lot of misdirection when teams don't respect the run.

keep in mind, the Giants have played a series of pretty darn good defenses. The Redskins are even tough up front.

The Patriots and Vikings may be the two best defenses we play this year (we see Dallas again and they are really tough too).

Belichick's defense? Yeah, ok. Who did they have to make these plays? The team's best players were hurt, Engram, Barkley, Gallman and Shepard.

Hilliman is not an NFL-caliber running back. I've seen enough.

I can't figure out why he's even on the team in the first place when there are decent vet FAs out there like Ajayi, and I can't figure out why Shurmur gave him more carries than Penny. Penny at least looks like he belongs in the league.

In comment 14624478 Greg from LI said:

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I can't figure out why he's even on the team in the first place when there are decent vet FAs out there like Ajayi, and I can't figure out why Shurmur gave him more carries than Penny. Penny at least looks like he belongs in the league.

I've been wondering this as well. I thought it was obvious in the preseason that Hilliman was not an NFL caliber player. IMO Gettleman made a mistake not bringing in a veteran RB when Barkley went down. Having only Hilliman behind Gallman was an unnecessary risk especially when the team was 2-2 and still technically alive.

but even then I'm not sure it will change much.

In comment 14624474 Eric from BBI said:

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Hilliman is not an NFL-caliber running back. I've seen enough.

I couldn't agree more. Guy is killing us. Don't know anything about the RB they promoted from the practice squad, but I would have even rather see him get some touches behind Penny. Starting Hilliman put an anchor around the offense's neck.

In comment 14624462 Eric from BBI said:

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I was more spit-balling since I didn't think the defense would be able to hang with the Patriots. Giants were really in a tough spot. Without Barkley, they have no running game. Without Barkley, Engram, and Shepard as receivers, the Patriots only had to worry about Tate. (Shepard is coming along, but he's still a rookie). I would have liked to have seen more of Penny. It's hard to use a lot of misdirection when teams don't respect the run.

Copy that.

shot, but when he played he sure as hell was much better than Jon Hilliman

In comment 14624502 JonC said:

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but even then I'm not sure it will change much.

I realize that we aren't going to get a great RB at this point in the season I just want someone who can hold onto the football and at least keep defenses honest. Hilliman is averaging only 3.0 yards per carry and has fumbled twice in just 30 carries. That is a pathetic combination especially since the defense isn't respecting the running game.

up the middle he couldn't exploit. Either got to the line late and in one case, went down too easily on a play Barkley or even Gallman might have broken for a big gain. Receivers weren't getting much separation, no surprise against this secondary. Jones forced to throw into tight windows. Slayton couldn't come down with a beautifully thrown, contested ball that would have extended a 4th Q drive. Also surprised Jones didn't run a little more. It would have been fun to see Jones work with a full complement of weapons. He struggled but that's part of the process. Fwiw, NE offense isn't nearly on same plane as the D and Brady had stretches -- for him -- of rather poor play.

In comment 14624504 Fort Mill Mike said:

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In comment 14624474 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Hilliman is not an NFL-caliber running back. I've seen enough. I couldn't agree more. Guy is killing us. Don't know anything about the RB they promoted from the practice squad, but I would have even rather see him get some touches behind Penny. Starting Hilliman put an anchor around the offense's neck.

The knack on the guy they promoted is size, but at leas he has burst to belong in the league. I seriously have no idea what they saw in Hilliman. Like none.

In comment 14624474 Eric from BBI said:

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Hilliman is not an NFL-caliber running back. I've seen enough.

We are supposedly trying out Akeem Hunt. Don't think it could be worse.

Hilliman. Probably left close to 100 rushing yards out there last night an average back makes.

sunk this game before it started.

In comment 14624512 clatterbuck said:

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up the middle he couldn't exploit. Either got to the line late and in one case, went down too easily on a play Barkley or even Gallman might have broken for a big gain. Receivers weren't getting much separation, no surprise against this secondary. Jones forced to throw into tight windows. Slayton couldn't come down with a beautifully thrown, contested ball that would have extended a 4th Q drive. Also surprised Jones didn't run a little more. It would have been fun to see Jones work with a full complement of weapons. He struggled but that's part of the process. Fwiw, NE offense isn't nearly on same plane as the D and Brady had stretches -- for him -- of rather poor play.

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Also surprised Jones didn't run a little more. It would have been fun to see Jones work with a full complement of weapons.

Yeah, I was thinking about that, too. I was hoping to see at least a couple ofdesigned QB runs.

thing everyone needs to remember is that Barkley is not only a huge factor for defenses running the ball but he is also our most dangerous receiver.

Losing Barkley was catastrophic.

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into the line on 2nd and nine is insanity

that was pretty uncontested. I think it is mostly attributed to no running game, a very limited weapons.

Gilmore is a very good corner.

but there's nothing there as a receiver.

That almost seemed like the difference last night was that Brady had his running backs he could dump the ball off to, which ended up opening things up for Edleman.

It did seem to me they were trying to do things, the Pats D just defended us well. On the third series, when DJ ran a bootleg, and tried to outrun defender to the edge, the Pats were ready for it...though I was left wondering why DJ didn't have anyone to pass to off of that fake.

In comment 14624670 barens said:

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but there's nothing there as a receiver. That almost seemed like the difference last night was that Brady had his running backs he could dump the ball off to, which ended up opening things up for Edleman. It did seem to me they were trying to do things, the Pats D just defended us well. On the third series, when DJ ran a bootleg, and tried to outrun defender to the edge, the Pats were ready for it...though I was left wondering why DJ didn't have anyone to pass to off of that fake.

Are we watching the same RB? Hilliman is far from a fine runner. He has no vision and below average speed. He also has a fumbling issue which makes his presence on the roster even more confusing.

Maybe he will improve but he does not belong on an NFL field currently.

Perkins was a big zero imo but he is Gale Sayers compared to Hilliman.

In comment 14624530 Eric from BBI said:

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thing everyone needs to remember is that Barkley is not only a huge factor for defenses running the ball but he is also our most dangerous receiver. Losing Barkley was catastrophic.

When Barkley went down in the first half of the Tampa game, we'd all have signed up for 2-2 in the next 4. IMO, it wasn't really realistic to expect anything better.

They'll have a chance to get a bit healthy, and play some poor defenses, before the bye. Let's see them win a few games and keep making progress. 7/8 wins is more than I expected this year and would be real progress in a rebuild IMO.

Or if I did it was minor (I hate these damn screen passes because I haven't seen one work in about 10 years). I liked the hurrying to the line changing tempo (and when Aikman said good luck with that I wanted to punch him through the screen). I think that Hilliman lines up too deep in the backfield(2nd straight game). I don't know why they play certain personnel over others (Hilliman over Penny, Chandler/Bethea over Love, Haley over Ballentine or even why stupar is out there) but I'm going with 'its their job so they know better', but seriously changes need to be made. I thought the offense played about as expected and the Defense was lights out (for our Defense) for 3 and a half quarters.

In comment 14624462 Eric from BBI said:

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...... Giants were really in a tough spot. Without Barkley, they have no running game. ......

I disagree. Even with Barkley they have no running game, at least not a consistent, solid running game.

was that we ran too much. Yes, you want to run to keep the defense honest so you can try something with the pass, but Pats were overplaying the pass and Giants still couldn't run for shit. The only thing running the ball did was put Jones into 3rd and long.

In comment 14624798 NYRiese said:

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In comment 14624462 Eric from BBI said: Quote: ...... Giants were really in a tough spot. Without Barkley, they have no running game. ...... I disagree. Even with Barkley they have no running game, at least not a consistent, solid running game.

This is a truly astounding point -- the Giants have the best running back in the league, and some over the last 22 games have been all told a bad running game.

In comment 14624474 Eric from BBI said:

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Hilliman is not an NFL-caliber running back. I've seen enough.

+1. Time to move to the CFL, buddy.

In comment 14624798 NYRiese said:

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In comment 14624462 Eric from BBI said: Quote: ...... Giants were really in a tough spot. Without Barkley, they have no running game. ...... I disagree. Even with Barkley they have no running game, at least not a consistent, solid running game.

The Giants have no running game with Barkley? That's absurd, Barkley is the best RB in football and Hilliman is likely the worst. DC's also game plan around Barkley which makes the WR's and TE's jobs easier because teams have to respect the run.

Minnesota and NE showed absolutely no respect for the Giants running game with Hilliman and they were able to drop extra players into coverage because they knew Hilliman wasn't a threat If you don't think Barkley would have made a difference then I don' t know what to tell you. He is a threat to take it to the house any time he touches the ball.

In comment 14624825 Mike from SI said:

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In comment 14624474 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Hilliman is not an NFL-caliber running back. I've seen enough. +1. Time to move to the CFL, buddy.

He will have a difficult time making an XFL team.

In comment 14624502 JonC said:

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but even then I'm not sure it will change much.

A healthy Barkley makes a big difference ..

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(Jk)

It's always good to run in the wrong direction ...ten yards.

In comment 14624530 Eric from BBI said:

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thing everyone needs to remember is that Barkley is not only a huge factor for defenses running the ball but he is also our most dangerous receiver. Losing Barkley was catastrophic.

Yes!! He is the MVP of the offense because he is a threat from any spot on offense. Engram creates mis-matches due to his skillset so he is weapon #2. Tate and Shepard are solid "move the chains" types. And Slayton has some serious potential just a shame he missed so much of training camp.