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Playing Around with Next Year's Cap

Anakim : 10/11/2019 11:01 am
We could realistically have 100M+ in cap space:

We have 67M as it stands now going into 2020.


Cutting Jackrabbit saves 11M
Cutting Ogletree saves 8M
Cutting Ellison saves 5M
Cutting Martin saves 4.8M
Cutting Bethea saves 2.7M
Cutting Pulley saves 2.6M


That leaves 101M in cap space, with about 11M or so in dead cap. Obviously we'd need to fill up our roster with bodies, but it's nice to know that we can be as creative as we want next year.
I'm predicting  
Paulie Walnuts : 10/11/2019 11:03 am : link
Jackrabbit gets traded this year if we lose a few more games
Getts needs to add premium talent though via  
Optimus-NY : 10/11/2019 11:06 am : link
In 2005 the NYG hit a home run by adding K-Mac, A.P., and Plax. That offseason led to the 07 title. DG can draft, bjut his FA signings have a lot left to desire.
Holy shit we gave Bethea a two year contract?  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 11:07 am : link
Why?
it's scary, though  
islander1 : 10/11/2019 11:08 am : link
since Gettleman drafts his ass off, but he's been erratic with FA
RE: I'm predicting  
NYG007 : 10/11/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14624526 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
Jackrabbit gets traded this year if we lose a few more games


I think this becomes clearer by the game. Olgetree is just overpaid. But I like his play at times. Pulley likely stays, we have zero reason to cut him unless we get a good backup C in the draft.
Who  
AcidTest : 10/11/2019 11:10 am : link
is Martin?
Jackrabbit  
Longtimelurker : 10/11/2019 11:11 am : link
Jackrabbit to kc for a 4th. Who says no?
RE: Who  
Jon in NYC : 10/11/2019 11:11 am : link
In comment 14624549 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is Martin?


Kareem
The real  
Jon in NYC : 10/11/2019 11:12 am : link
question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.
..  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/11/2019 11:14 am : link
Two points of caution:

(1) Free agent markets have dried up the past decade. There aren't a lot of difference makers out there. The top 10 free agents are usually gone within 24 hours of free agency.

(2) This team can quickly get into serious cap trouble again if it goes on a wild spending spree for ordinary talent (see Olivier Vernon, Nate Solder, etc.).

I would be very cautious and selective in free agency. No more stupid contracts for guys like Kareem Martin and Rhett Ellison.
RE: The real  
section125 : 10/11/2019 11:14 am : link
In comment 14624555 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.


Spend very little. Draft is the way to go.
RE: The real  
Anakim : 10/11/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14624555 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.


And CB. If Jackrabbit's gone, you're left with Baker, Beal and Ballentine. Baker will be the starter going forward, but the other side is an unknown. You hope Beal takes full advantage of his playing time if/when he plays.
RE: RE: The real  
Jon in NYC : 10/11/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14624563 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14624555 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.



Spend very little. Draft is the way to go.


Fortunately they don't have to go either/or.

There are some really valuable players to take a look at if they make it to FA. Shaq Thompson for example is 25 and would solve a huge need at ILB. Same goes for Deion Jones.
RE: RE: RE: The real  
Jon in NYC : 10/11/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14624580 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14624563 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14624555 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.



Spend very little. Draft is the way to go.



Fortunately they don't have to go either/or.

There are some really valuable players to take a look at if they make it to FA. Shaq Thompson for example is 25 and would solve a huge need at ILB. Same goes for Deion Jones.


Whoops nvm looks like Jones re-signed already.
RE: Jackrabbit  
V.I.G. : 10/11/2019 11:22 am : link
In comment 14624551 Longtimelurker said:
Quote:
Jackrabbit to kc for a 4th. Who says no?

I say No
RE: I'm predicting  
M.S. : 10/11/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14624526 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
Jackrabbit gets traded this year if we lose a few more games

He's as good as gone. Depend upon it.
RE: RE: Who  
AcidTest : 10/11/2019 11:28 am : link
In comment 14624552 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14624549 AcidTest said:


Quote:


is Martin?



Kareem


Thanks.
I hope we don’t overspend  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2019 11:28 am : link
Take a bunch of quality guys. Maybe tier 2 or 3 that can help fill out the roster.

We used to take fliers on some guys that got hurt going into FA and that worked pretty well for us.
RE: RE: I'm predicting  
V.I.G. : 10/11/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14624590 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 14624526 Paulie Walnuts said:


Quote:


Jackrabbit gets traded this year if we lose a few more games


He's as good as gone. Depend upon it.

Pretty confident beal can stay healthy i guess. Maybe someone will take Haley and Ogletree too. 2028 Conditional 7th rounders?
Jenkins  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2019 11:29 am : link
is a fairly good corner at a decent cap number. I wouldn’t cut him.
RE: ..  
AcidTest : 10/11/2019 11:30 am : link
In comment 14624562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Two points of caution:

(1) Free agent markets have dried up the past decade. There aren't a lot of difference makers out there. The top 10 free agents are usually gone within 24 hours of free agency.

(2) This team can quickly get into serious cap trouble again if it goes on a wild spending spree for ordinary talent (see Olivier Vernon, Nate Solder, etc.).

I would be very cautious and selective in free agency. No more stupid contracts for guys like Kareem Martin and Rhett Ellison.


DG's record in FA is very poor. I'm worried he might overpay for a lot of players simply because he has the money to do so, and is desperate to fix the team while Barkley is still on his rookie contract.
Let's  
AcidTest : 10/11/2019 11:31 am : link
see where we are in two weeks, but I'd certainly listen to offer for Jenkins.
RE: RE: The real  
MotownGIANTS : 10/11/2019 11:34 am : link
In comment 14624567 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14624555 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.



And CB. If Jackrabbit's gone, you're left with Baker, Beal and Ballentine. Baker will be the starter going forward, but the other side is an unknown. You hope Beal takes full advantage of his playing time if/when he plays.


Sounds like Beal will be a full go once available ... question is how much time can he get. Move Jack Rabbit to the inside in the nickle package?


Listen to Eric from BBI  
arniefez : 10/11/2019 11:35 am : link
he is a wise man. The way to build a winning team is with young players drafted, claimed on waivers and signed as UDFAs not old expensive free agents.
Free Agency  
jv : 10/11/2019 11:36 am : link
is for fools. Haven't we seen this enough? You build a team through the draft and you pay to keep your own guys who fit your system. Building a team through free agency never works.
^^^  
Tuckrule : 10/11/2019 11:41 am : link
Tell that to the packers. I’d say those smith guys are doing alright.
...  
26.2 : 10/11/2019 11:42 am : link
DG isn't afraid to trade either. He did better going that route vs. what he did in FA. Acquiring both draft picks and players.
Eric is right  
SLIM_ : 10/11/2019 11:50 am : link
but I think we can use our future cap space and make potentially be a buyer at the deadline. You get the benefit of a potentially overpriced salary but no signing bonus to worry about. There were some good players available for mid-round picks last year.

We would have to navigate around this year's cap and we don't have a lot of candidates to move money around but hoping we can get creative.

I could see JackRabbit being traded at this year's deadline but depending on how he plays, he could come back. A potentially good player on a 1 year deal isn't the worst thing.

No rush to get rid of Pulley. He is a solid backup and if we choose not to resign Halapio or go after a free agent C, could be the bridge to a draft pick.
RE: ..  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/11/2019 11:54 am : link
In comment 14624562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Two points of caution:

(1) Free agent markets have dried up the past decade. There aren't a lot of difference makers out there. The top 10 free agents are usually gone within 24 hours of free agency.

(2) This team can quickly get into serious cap trouble again if it goes on a wild spending spree for ordinary talent (see Olivier Vernon, Nate Solder, etc.).

I would be very cautious and selective in free agency. No more stupid contracts for guys like Kareem Martin and Rhett Ellison.

Even without a wild spending spree, this team can get into cap trouble again if they keep taking on dead money in pursuit of net cap gains. Dead money is an albatross, and continuing to cut players before the end of their contracts in pursuit of incremental cap space not only generates that dead money, it also precludes comp picks.

This team needs to stop handing out bloated contracts that all have the "it's a X year deal but they can really get out of it after Y years" caveat. And worse, they seem to do this even with players that have no fucking leverage. It's like Abrams just pulls up a contract template from his most recent files in MS Word and drops in different names and dollar amounts, but the structure remains the same.

Focus on minimizing dead money and maximizing comp picks. The blueprint from successful organizations couldn't be more clear.
RE: ..  
2cents : 10/11/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14624562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Two points of caution:

(1) Free agent markets have dried up the past decade. There aren't a lot of difference makers out there. The top 10 free agents are usually gone within 24 hours of free agency.

(2) This team can quickly get into serious cap trouble again if it goes on a wild spending spree for ordinary talent (see Olivier Vernon, Nate Solder, etc.).

I would be very cautious and selective in free agency. No more stupid contracts for guys like Kareem Martin and Rhett Ellison.


I agree with overall sentiment but imo in the last 2 yrs of FA players seem to swinging the other way.

there was some legit, young talent available last season but we weren't able to capitalize. If we could land a group of guys like greenbay did for that defense this past offseason id be extremely happy.
A bit more reality needed. Anakim wants to cut 6 players for cap  
Ivan15 : 10/11/2019 12:02 pm : link
purposes, presumably also because they are underperforming. Four are current starters. Jon C wants to add 6 players, presumably starters, but to do that, the Giants will need to cut (or demote) 5 or 6 current starters.

So now we are trying to replace 8 to 12 starters through the draft and free agency. Remember that only 1st round draft picks can be relied upon to move into a starting role in Year 1.

You all really need to be more realistic with personnel moves.
RE: RE: RE: The real  
gmenatlarge : 10/11/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14624621 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
In comment 14624567 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14624555 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.



And CB. If Jackrabbit's gone, you're left with Baker, Beal and Ballentine. Baker will be the starter going forward, but the other side is an unknown. You hope Beal takes full advantage of his playing time if/when he plays.



Sounds like Beal will be a full go once available ... question is how much time can he get. Move Jack Rabbit to the inside in the nickle package?



Difficult to count on Beal for anything, week 7 into his second season and he still hasn't seen the field. I realize that it's not his fault but some guys are just injury-prone.
RE: ...  
gmenatlarge : 10/11/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14624640 26.2 said:
Quote:
DG isn't afraid to trade either. He did better going that route vs. what he did in FA. Acquiring both draft picks and players.


What 'good" trades has he made?????
The Giants need to be smart in free agency  
Jay on the Island : 10/11/2019 12:04 pm : link
First of all they need to steer clear of players over the age of 30 unless it's a 1 year deal.

My main focus would be to add either Yannick Ngakoue or Shaq Barrett and Jack Conklin. Then I would sign second tier types like C Tedd Karras from NE. He will be cheap and he is still young and has starting experience.

In the draft my first round pick would be either OT or WR unless an edge rusher falls. In round 2 I would focus on the BPA at either ILB, WR/OT, (whichever they didn't draft in round 1), FS, C, or TE.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The real  
MotownGIANTS : 10/11/2019 12:12 pm : link
In comment 14624677 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14624621 MotownGIANTS said:


Quote:


In comment 14624567 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14624555 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


question is who do we spend the money on?

Major holes at Tackle, Center, ILB, OLB (pending Golden?), FS, WR.



And CB. If Jackrabbit's gone, you're left with Baker, Beal and Ballentine. Baker will be the starter going forward, but the other side is an unknown. You hope Beal takes full advantage of his playing time if/when he plays.



Sounds like Beal will be a full go once available ... question is how much time can he get. Move Jack Rabbit to the inside in the nickle package?





Difficult to count on Beal for anything, week 7 into his second season and he still hasn't seen the field. I realize that it's not his fault but some guys are just injury-prone.


Agreed but in a season where you want to gauge players he'll have 1/2 a season to show his physical prowess. He has enough to know what is expected mentally, calls, schemes etc by being in the system and how they used him like an inter coach and so forth ... he has had enough mental reps IMO
If someone offers  
TommyWiseau : 10/11/2019 12:43 pm : link
a 4th round pick for Jackrabbit, we should jump on it. If no one is willing to trade us anything for him, keep him and cut him after next year. You need a vet presence in that secondary and he can still ball
Beal has to get a jersey  
Dankbeerman : 10/11/2019 12:48 pm : link
over his head on gameday before I can take him seriously in either way.

Still think Love should be get pushed into reps in the slot and not the saftey experiment.

The key is we dont have to start cutting guys to sign guys. Jenkins can stay until we start spending the 67 mil. His 11 mil can be a savings plan for 2021 too. Let the kids beat him out before we cut him.

Key is to get out of the dead money and not add more to it.
RE: ..  
Justlurking : 10/11/2019 1:49 pm : link
In comment 14624562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Two points of caution:

(1) Free agent markets have dried up the past decade. There aren't a lot of difference makers out there. The top 10 free agents are usually gone within 24 hours of free agency.

(2) This team can quickly get into serious cap trouble again if it goes on a wild spending spree for ordinary talent (see Olivier Vernon, Nate Solder, etc.).

I would be very cautious and selective in free agency. No more stupid contracts for guys like Kareem Martin and Rhett Ellison.


Agree 100%. Ellison’s contract is laughable. He stinks.
RE: ..  
islander1 : 10/11/2019 2:33 pm : link
In comment 14624562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Two points of caution:

(1) Free agent markets have dried up the past decade. There aren't a lot of difference makers out there. The top 10 free agents are usually gone within 24 hours of free agency.

(2) This team can quickly get into serious cap trouble again if it goes on a wild spending spree for ordinary talent (see Olivier Vernon, Nate Solder, etc.).

I would be very cautious and selective in free agency. No more stupid contracts for guys like Kareem Martin and Rhett Ellison.


Completely agree. If it takes an extra year to rebuild through the draft, and we see it working, then why the hell not?

All those draft picks are eventually going to need more money.
I would cut all those players  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/11/2019 2:44 pm : link
except for Jenkins who I would trade. I like Jenkins and Im thinking so do other teas that will make a run this year.

In FA, I would focus on a OLB as top priority. If a value at OT came up (they never do) I'd do that too.
RE: Free Agency  
V.I.G. : 10/11/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14624628 jv said:
Quote:
is for fools. Haven't we seen this enough? You build a team through the draft and you pay to keep your own guys who fit your system. Building a team through free agency never works.

you mean like
I know right? I mean how dumb were we to sign
O'Hara
Mackenzie
Pierce
Kavika
Madison

What idiots we were
It's about adding the right guys ...  
Bluesbreaker : 10/11/2019 4:16 pm : link
We almost have to add a few guys in free agency .
We have to add at least two O-lineman to protect
Jones and help Barkley . Remmers and Soldier are
about toast .
I would also be looking for an inside LB to replace
Ogletree and a FS for Bethea
The first three picks in the draft will be BPA
Edge O-line and WR/FS ..With another solid draft and a
few key players in free agency we will be an above 500
and playoff contender . Only glitch I see is Shurmur
the right guy for the job so it depends on how this
season plays out .
Nice to know we have roster flexibility  
djm : 10/11/2019 4:24 pm : link
Just keep drafting well. This is the second year in a row we’ve added 3-4-5-6 players from the draft or RFA pool. If we can even just add two more big time starters from the next draft we will be on our way. I’d be tempted to move up next season as I think the giants are closer now to needing quality over quantity. We’re going to add vet talent thx to this cap room.... add the stud in the draft.
RE: it's scary, though  
djm : 10/11/2019 4:28 pm : link
In comment 14624540 islander1 said:
Quote:
since Gettleman drafts his ass off, but he's been erratic with FA


The FAs, other than Solder have been more of the stop gap variety with very little long term commitment. You’re going to get what you pay for.

It honestly doesn’t take a football savant to spot good vet FA talent. I don’t think DG lacks the eye for this as much as we lacked cap room or we weren’t in the market for many big time FAs.
...  
christian : 10/11/2019 4:37 pm : link
My brain is going to pop if someone repeats Jenkins is a good corner on a good deal again.

He's arguably a bad corner on a horrible deal.

I genuinely don't believe fans watch him with this stuff. He's making 14.75M a year, the 4th highest cap hit of all corners.

His slashes last year were statistically worse than BW Webb. He's given up games of 83, 105, 184 yards this year.

That should be a rarity, but it's not.

If some gives the Giants a pick, that's a miracle.
Anakim  
.McL. : 10/11/2019 4:54 pm : link
Over the cap has the Giants at 66.2 million, however I don't think they ever accounted for the Solder restructure at the beginning of the year.

Spottrac has the Giants at 61 million.

After paying out some of the earned bonuses it will be a bit less than that.

RE: ..  
.McL. : 10/11/2019 4:57 pm : link
In comment 14624562 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Two points of caution:

(1) Free agent markets have dried up the past decade. There aren't a lot of difference makers out there. The top 10 free agents are usually gone within 24 hours of free agency.

(2) This team can quickly get into serious cap trouble again if it goes on a wild spending spree for ordinary talent (see Olivier Vernon, Nate Solder, etc.).

I would be very cautious and selective in free agency. No more stupid contracts for guys like Kareem Martin and Rhett Ellison.


Spot on Eric...
Add Tate and Ogletree to those stupid contracts...
...  
christian : 10/11/2019 5:40 pm : link
The Giants have no one of value to trade. The vet players they do have are all potential cuts, so we're not going to see the Giants have the type of picks they've had before.

Gettleman traded virtually every player of value and and absorbed substantial dead money in exchange for the additional draft picks.

They can't do that anymore and the Giants very well might not be drafting in the top 10 this year.

Point being the talent flow from the last 2 drafts might not be the same.
Are Carter and Ximines viable starters next year?  
giantstock : 10/12/2019 2:21 am : link
Focus on three free agents and trade down. ANythign else you get in FA make it inexpensive. If Gmen get a center in FA it won't be that expensive.

I think GMEN need a RT and a center. Thta's a priority. Jones and Barkley should get it. So realistically you draft 1 and get 1 FA. You can get a good enough OL in draft later in rd 1 so trade down. I expect a 6-10 season so some team will give you a late 1st rd pick and some other value.

Depending on how good the GMEN OLB's are -- you get in FA one ILB and one DL.

Get a safety in rd 2. Get an OLB in rd 3.
I am not they won't cut players  
George from PA : 10/12/2019 6:27 am : link
But there is no need to cut players for cap next year....

They will have all the cap they need.....it's not like they will jump right back into cap hell...after clearing it out.

I suspect they will sign a couple of guys....but will leave cap flush....

3 immediate needs Edge, FS and stud MLB...of which draft will still be their main source of talent.

Sure WR, LT,RT,and Center can use improvement.....I see more developmental talent
RE: Nice to know we have roster flexibility  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/12/2019 9:32 am : link
In comment 14625152 djm said:
Quote:
Just keep drafting well. This is the second year in a row we’ve added 3-4-5-6 players from the draft or RFA pool. If we can even just add two more big time starters from the next draft we will be on our way. I’d be tempted to move up next season as I think the giants are closer now to needing quality over quantity. We’re going to add vet talent thx to this cap room.... add the stud in the draft.

Cap room in a vacuum is meaningless - cap room relative to the league is more meaningful. And the Giants are below the mean there.

This shouldn't be a scenario for a spending spree. Anyone want to bet that it will be anyway?
RE: RE: Free Agency  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/12/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14625072 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
In comment 14624628 jv said:


Quote:


is for fools. Haven't we seen this enough? You build a team through the draft and you pay to keep your own guys who fit your system. Building a team through free agency never works.


you mean like
I know right? I mean how dumb were we to sign
O'Hara
Mackenzie
Pierce
Kavika
Madison

What idiots we were

Referencing guys that were signed over a decade ago doesn't exactly make your point.

Maybe you knew that?
Aren't there any  
mrvax : 10/12/2019 2:18 pm : link
UDFA's out there or practice squad guys that may turn into starter level tackles? Not sure why the Giants cannot develop a few Oline players.
The need for a true pass rusher is obvious  
Rjanyg : 10/12/2019 5:03 pm : link
Yangankwe from Jax seems like the top target. However I would also bring back Golden. He had been very solid and is good in the locker room. Draft an ILB early, FS, WR.

We have drafted lots of DB’s between Beal, Baker, Love and Ballentine. Peppers is young and part of the future.

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