I think the team is prepared and motivated to play for him, but I'm not really in love with his in-game management. Things like 4th-down decisions, play-calling, etc.
It was inexcusable to call time out at 3rd and 6 with Brady but we didn't lose because of Shurmur.
The team played hard all of last year. This is a young team that will take it's lumps because of it. He has a reputation of a quarterback guru and I don't want to get into churning through head coaches or philosophies with DJ.
I think everybody was under the realization last year that we didn't have the talent to consistently compete and we are 1 1/4 years into a fix. He gets 3.
the bar for a head coach in the NFL is not "the players play hard for him"
Since when is that what the measurement should be? Shurmur seems like a nice guy and is a solid QB/Coordinator type. There are a lot of guys like that in the NFL. This is the New York Giants, a championship franchise. We aren't winning championships with this guy as our head coach. Time to realize that and start looking at other candidates.
As you stated, the team played hard last night despite being severely undermanned and outgunned.
His game management leaves a lot to be desired. I think he makes bad decisions at crucial times and basically does not seem like he has a good handle on the game.
I know Belichick is the best of all time so its not a fair comparison, but he is in total control of the game and routinely makes the correct decision at critical junctures.
What kind of pathetic standard is "they play hard"?
Do you know why they play hard? I'll take a guess at it.
They play hard because most of the guys on this roster are rookies and young guys, some of which wouldn't be playing on other teams because they're not good enough. They're just thrilled to have an opportunity, or don't have the job security to do anything BUT play hard.
"They play hard" isn't actually any kind of evaluation of how good Shurmur is at his job.
playing hard should not be a reason to keep a head coach. The Redskins played hard for Jay Gruden, and they went 35-49 during his tenure there, they kept him for 6 seasons when it was clear he wasn't a good coach. Let's not make the same mistake. Shurmur has given zero indication, past or present, that he's a good NFL head coach. The reservations about hiring a retread HC/coordinator have been proven exactly correct. Time to call a spade a spade. Why are we sugarcoating this?
when we go 6-10 this season? Well...we didn't have the pieces. We will go 8-8 next year and it'll be "well...2021 is really when things are expecting to go our way..." Enough with this horseshit.
the team never quits on him which is a good sign. I was happy when he was hired because of his history working with QB's and his track record as an OC.
I am now convinced that he isn't the right man to lead the team with playoff aspirations. I predicted a 7-9 record this season but next year the Giants should expect to make the playoffs but I don't think Shurmur is the guy to get us there.
If Shurmur is brought back next year, I think he will be, I hope he makes changes to his staff at least.
is he doesn't seem to be a motivator. He seems perfectly OK with a tough loss or a loss. Press conferences, he doesn't say anything that leads you to believe he's really pissed that guys didn't play well. Hold these players accountable. Shake things up. Jesus christ you are 7-15 so far as the coach of the team.
Something I've noticed about him that is annoying as hell
Steelers always complain about game management with Mike Tomlin. I'd be able to live with Shurmur's game management if he was a great motivator, great game planner, and really good X's and O's guy, things that a guy like Tomlin seems to be. Shurmur isn't particularly good at anything, except being a pretty nice guy and he holds the locker room together, which about 150 guys in the NFL could do.
when we go 6-10 this season? Well...we didn't have the pieces. We will go 8-8 next year and it'll be "well...2021 is really when things are expecting to go our way..." Enough with this horseshit.
We dont have a team with enough actual talent to win week in and week out.
We have improvement and things are progressing.
We are also starting a rookie at QB.
Next season is the season to crucify him if he stinks it up.
Why would you want to put DJ in a new offense and have him learn all over again. Continuity is a great thing and I am sure they will be pretty good next season.
No one really wanted to admit we were rebuilding both last year and this year, so its time to come to grip with reality. Stuff doesnt get better over night.
What do they have in common? They won. I don't hear the highest praise of them is that their teams "played hard". It is way down the list of accolades.
So after two seasons is it fair to say that he should be able to beat the Cowboys and Eagles once in four tries against each one?
I would like to see him gone if he does not beat the Cowboys or Eagles this year.
Hopefully they look at Matt Rhule.
I think you are confusing playing hard for him and being loyal
Last nights game was the hardest game they've played. I'll say it again (as I did on another post); How can he have them up for this game but not the season opener? Against a division rival?
Last nights game was the hardest game they've played. I'll say it again (as I did on another post); How can he have them up for this game but not the season opener? Against a division rival?
Our defense started a brand new secondary. Full of rookies and DeAndre Baker has played all of 2 weeks of training camp at that point. Also Eli started too.
what I'm saying is, we already know what Shurmur is. Why waste another season? That makes even less sense than changing it up. Players can adapt to the system. It's really not that big of a deal.
of getting rid of the guy. His game management is most likely not getting any better. Punting on 4th and 2 is inexcusable and something a coach in his 4TH year shouldn't make.
It was inexcusable to call time out at 3rd and 6 with Brady but we didn't lose because of Shurmur.
The team played hard all of last year. This is a young team that will take it's lumps because of it. He has a reputation of a quarterback guru and I don't want to get into churning through head coaches or philosophies with DJ.
I think everybody was under the realization last year that we didn't have the talent to consistently compete and we are 1 1/4 years into a fix. He gets 3.
This was. Totally legitimate move by the coach. You might disagree it, entitled to your opinion. But to call it inexcusable is a bit much,,,,no?
By the way, he Peppers made the play and Giants got ball back and scored, we be singing his praises for coaching to win.
Your comment, stating a questionable opinion as fact, is what fans do, I get it. But come on, be fair.
when we go 6-10 this season? Well...we didn't have the pieces. We will go 8-8 next year and it'll be "well...2021 is really when things are expecting to go our way..." Enough with this horseshit.
"Its gonna take some time man, injuries. Take some time for the offense to get set."
We were never ever going to be a good team this season.
The way we handled the ElI benching really screwed Shurmur from the start. Could have axed him 2 years ago, still drafted Saquon, and used that cap for better players.
Instead you whined and bitched and moaned and here we are finally headed in the right direction after slowly ripping the bandaid off and you want to reverse course.
Our team has been gutted in 2 years and DG hasnt really landed great FA help but lets put him up on a pedestal.
This is what needed to be done. Shurmur actually deserves a year when we have a more complete team to coach. Hes fair game at that point, but right now hes making something out of nothing. Its actually watchable football.
..for using the TO late in the second quarter, when NE had the ball as was going in for a TD?
I don't see why you don't try to preserve time there. In the past, teams have always been reluctant to use a TO there, as to give the opponent time to think about things. Letting the clock run was sorta a rule.
But calling a TO there gives you chance. When Ballentine returned the kickoff from nearly 8 yards deep, that was the right move too considering the clock. A decent to big return could have resulted in a FG with 30 seconds left. When he only reached the 20, you take a knee.
Then you get the ball to start the second half.
Shurmur did the same thing last week versus Minny - but sorta screwed it up by calling an opening run play rather than pass.
and while I'd expect a better end result, there's just too many voids in his demonstrated skillset to allow me to bet on him to succeed here. Red alerts in my head.
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
I have still yet to see any creative play calling, I thought the
entire playbook would be applicable now that we have a mobile QB.
And he doesnt seem that competent as a HC either. Lets not do the same mental gymnastics on his coaching like we did Elis play. We should realize that this is a lost season and Shurmur is here to keep the seat warm.
What do they have in common? They won. I don't hear the highest praise of them is that their teams "played hard". It is way down the list of accolades.
So after two seasons is it fair to say that he should be able to beat the Cowboys and Eagles once in four tries against each one?
I would like to see him gone if he does not beat the Cowboys or Eagles this year.
Hopefully they look at Matt Rhule.
Each one got fired or was close to being fired.. Fans know nothing
Our defense is out there huge minutes and the nitwit goes hurry up. Huh? How about let's use the clock to gain some time of possession and give the D a breather. Offensive genius at work? I think not.
Jones is struggling with reads so let's play faster and put him under more intense pressure? Makes no sense.
Down 14 with 7 minutes and a 4th and 2 so let's punt? Mind bogglingly stupid.
Featuring Hilliman over Penny after the rookie has already had fumbles in previous games? He should have minimized this kids exposure. Illogical at best, idiotic at worst and cost us 7 points.
I've supported Shurmur but each week my trust erodes. Gameplan, playcalling, personnel decisions, time management, situational strategies...he's failed in every area.
each individual interception, turnover, missed tackle, receivers not making tough catches, etc. none of these are really Shurmurs fault; but added all up, it paints the picture of a team who does play hard for Shurmur but are doing it badly. They look like a badly coached team especially in comparison to Belichicks team.
Our defense is out there huge minutes and the nitwit goes hurry up. Huh? How about let's use the clock to gain some time of possession and give the D a breather. Offensive genius at work? I think not.
Jones is struggling with reads so let's play faster and put him under more intense pressure? Makes no sense.
Down 14 with 7 minutes and a 4th and 2 so let's punt? Mind bogglingly stupid.
Featuring Hilliman over Penny after the rookie has already had fumbles in previous games? He should have minimized this kids exposure. Illogical at best, idiotic at worst and cost us 7 points.
I've supported Shurmur but each week my trust erodes. Gameplan, playcalling, personnel decisions, time management, situational strategies...he's failed in every area.
about how tight the windows are that Daniel is throwing into. Baldy called this out when Eli was playing. Theres no separation and he seemed to be indirectly pointing at Shurmurs scheme. Were seeing the same thing with Daniel now except hes throwing it and getting intercepted rather than checking down like Eli did. Not too sure about Shurmur.
and while I'd expect a better end result, there's just too many voids in his demonstrated skillset to allow me to bet on him to succeed here. Red alerts in my head.
This, there's just too many things he does wrong that have nothing to do with talent level. I am curious what he looks like coaching a talented offense. I think he may be able find good success in this scenerio. Big test coming up with Saquon coming back against a weak defense.
Because 1) they are professional competitors, 2) their jobs are always at stake in this league and 95% of professional athletes approach games with everything theyve got (besides those in completely hopeless situations like in Miami for instance), 3) playing the legendary Patriots and Tom Brady was like their 2019 super bowl, especially for all these young guys on the team. They had nothing to lose and it would have been an absolute coup if they pulled out a win, so they were giving it 110%. None of that surprised me at all.
Really low standard to set for an NFL head coach to simply say well the players really tried hard to win the game for him. They were trying to win the game because football is how they make their living and thats what the fuck youre supposed to do when you play football.
The reason we stayed in the game last night was 100% the defense, which is Bettcher, not Shurmur. Give credit where credit is due. The offense had one nice play all night long and people are blowing Shurmur saying how amazing it is they stayed in the game with no weapons on offense etc. Shurmur didnt have much to work with offensively, sure, but he also showed me absolutely nothing that impressed me. Can anyone seriously point to one thing he did last night that was above and beyond expectation? If you can, the negative things he did (and negative iI mean things that no human with one iota of football sense would ever do in a million years) far outweigh anything decent he showed last night.
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
RE: I have still yet to see any creative play calling, I thought the
entire playbook would be applicable now that we have a mobile QB.
And he doesnt seem that competent as a HC either. Lets not do the same mental gymnastics on his coaching like we did Elis play. We should realize that this is a lost season and Shurmur is here to keep the seat warm.
Lets hope for a turnaround like Fisher to McVey.
Jones has only played a couple quarters with Barkley, and one of the top 2 WR's has been out every game.
Is "opening up the playbook" code for doing a bunch of QB runs??
Who would be his replacement? If we fire him mid season we kind of have to have someone ready to step in.
Give the job to Bettcher on an interim basis. In the meantime we have between now and January to study and completely rethink how this organization is run. Conduct that study, compile a list of candidates that can execute the plan that comes out of that study, and get to work interviewing them.
But we're not gaining anything by keeping Shurmur on one game longer.
IF or WHEN the Giants turn it around in the future,
I don't think Shurmur will be around. I don't want to
belabor what others have mentioned on here.
One thing I will add, the way he uses his timeouts can be
annoying as hell, I guess we will throw that under
'game management' or 'clock management' then.
Last nights game was the hardest game they've played. I'll say it again (as I did on another post); How can he have them up for this game but not the season opener? Against a division rival?
Ton of new players understandably not ready in week one.
RE: RE: I have still yet to see any creative play calling, I thought the
entire playbook would be applicable now that we have a mobile QB.
And he doesnt seem that competent as a HC either. Lets not do the same mental gymnastics on his coaching like we did Elis play. We should realize that this is a lost season and Shurmur is here to keep the seat warm.
Lets hope for a turnaround like Fisher to McVey.
Jones has only played a couple quarters with Barkley, and one of the top 2 WR's has been out every game.
Is "opening up the playbook" code for doing a bunch of QB runs??
Because I sure as hell don't want to see that.
.
It is difficult to open up the playbook, when 65% of your offense wasn't on the field last night. That might have more merit in the future.
We were never ever going to be a good team this season.
The way we handled the ElI benching really screwed Shurmur from the start. Could have axed him 2 years ago, still drafted Saquon, and used that cap for better players.
Instead you whined and bitched and moaned and here we are finally headed in the right direction after slowly ripping the bandaid off and you want to reverse course.
Our team has been gutted in 2 years and DG hasnt really landed great FA help but lets put him up on a pedestal.
This is what needed to be done. Shurmur actually deserves a year when we have a more complete team to coach. Hes fair game at that point, but right now hes making something out of nothing. Its actually watchable football.
Good points. Shurmur is the guy going through a painful rebuild with a total new roster turned over. he's in year 1 1/2 so far and we may have our franchise QB and RB. He needs 3 years unless the team loses it in the locker room.
Everytime you start over the new regime purges the roster...let the leadership have 3 years.
the other teams had superior rosters but who thought that the Giant head coach did everything he could with what he had but the talent just wasn't there.
Or did you think the Giants are at the same disadvantage on the sideline than they are on the field. Because they are. If you don't see it you don't know what you're watching.
Even the complete BBI sycophants and Baghdad Bob's are in the you'll have to ask Rudy phase at this point.
If the Giants lose to AZ at home it's pretty much the beginning of the end.
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
Seriously - Fassel made it to a Super Bowl - this guy making the playoffs would be a huge career upswing.
But that was an awful 4th quarter yesterday. Hilliman should not have even been out there over Penny at the end, let alone being the guy you lean on in 2nd and 3rd and long on a key possession. There's no defending that last punt.
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
there it is - the dumbest thought of the week, maybe the year. How can you compare that giants 2000 roster to this season's with all the new faces, rookies, and injuries. Fassel was the definition of a guy that got his team to play down to the competition. Shurmur IMO has been the opposite.
re: Shurmur. Had bad teams in Cleveland and inherited a pretty bad NYG team. Defense is finally starting to play better. Offense is missing its' start player. Looking for them to start putting things together over the next few games.
Let's say they take the advice of many of the "Fire Shurmur OMG he sucks" crowd.....
WHO ARE YOU GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH????
We get complaining by the same posters without presenting ANY alternative much less a viable one. Just proves it's bitching for the sake of bitching.
Seriously, it's the same damn argument. So many people were saying bench Eli. Really? For who? Spend a draft pick on a maybe and not wait for someone they really want/like? They throw a dart at the board approach? They should have drafted Darnold instead of Barkley? Really? They should not have taken the RotY and waited to get quite possibly the next RotY?
Wait and see? Shurmur and Gettleman have only taken the reins but for a minute. Let them build it before you tear it down without so much as a blueprint for how to do it better.
giving Shurmur enough rope. I won't pick on him in-season (much).
If the team completes the year playing hard and slowly but surely improves, I think he gets 2020. If not, then try again with another HC.
"Injuries are part of the game". True, but they do have a direct affect on the team's record. Missing 3-4 of your best offensive weapons is going to be reflected in the score.
I do think Shurmur needs to work with a trusted assistant to decide clock management, 4th downs, and challenges. Let Shurmur work his magic with the QB and play calls. McAdoo and TC had some trouble they could have delegated too.
What does he do well? Hes proven to be a bad coach. But the giants will change coordinators or something and give him another losing year before firing him. The sooner hes gone the better.
I would be perfectly fine with him as the OC but we need a better HC. And for the life of me still trying to understand logic of going to a 3-4 defense when this organization has not drafted a legitimate LB since Jesse Armstrong and can also be listed as having the worst LB group in the league the last 5 years.
He is a good OC in the right situation and yes we should
be looking for his replacement . I have no idea who that
might be othere people here may know a younger up and
coming guy but I prefer a former head coach .
Who is the best guy suited to replace Shurmur .
Pats were arrogant assholes last night and BB had no problem
going for it on 4th down .they had zero respect for us and
they have never got over the two losses to us and
it shows after the Golden TD that was a marvelous effort
to score they were shocked it was a punch in the gut
As undermanned as we were I say we beat them when our
guys are back .
we didn't get rid of eli earlier and we didn't do this or that in FA need to stop.
the fact is if you don't make the right calls when the games out of reach and doesn't matter, how do we know you can when the game is within a score and we need to manage time outs, call the right plays, or take the right chances?
he uses time outs like its going out of style. his decisions to go for it on 4th have no rhyme or reason. he also makes questionable play calls which i'll lay off him on the play calling because a lot of that could be on execution but he needs to adjust!
He's really shouldering way too much blame here. I believe the majority of NFL games are won before they are played. You need talent to win these games. And right now we just don't have enough of it to consistently compete and win. That's Gettleman's job.
Layer on the injuries to key offensive pieces, plus a rookie QB who is dealing with the ups and downs of the rookie cycle, than nothing about these results should be surprising.
If you think these real time questionable decisions by Shurmur are unique to him, I suggest you watch more games because it's sort of an epidemic around the league. From Pete Carroll to Mike Tomlin to Andy Reid to Ron Rivera to etc, there are questionable decisions being made every single game.
Go Terps are you suggesting we bring in a consultant group
He is a good OC in the right situation and yes we should
be looking for his replacement . I have no idea who that
might be othere people here may know a younger up and
coming guy but I prefer a former head coach .
Who is the best guy suited to replace Shurmur .
Pats were arrogant assholes last night and BB had no problem
going for it on 4th down .they had zero respect for us and
they have never got over the two losses to us and
it shows after the Golden TD that was a marvelous effort
to score they were shocked it was a punch in the gut
As undermanned as we were I say we beat them when our
guys are back .
The Pats went for it on 4th down because of the wind and Nugent.
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
there it is - the dumbest thought of the week, maybe the year. How can you compare that giants 2000 roster to this season's with all the new faces, rookies, and injuries. Fassel was the definition of a guy that got his team to play down to the competition. Shurmur IMO has been the opposite.
Yeah, Shurmur, the guy who has one of the 10 worst records in NFL history as a head coach, is comparable to Jim Fassel.
Fassel had plenty of faults. But he was light years better as a head coach than Pat Shurmur.
Fassel went to the playoffs 3 times. Had a 58-53-1 record as a HC. Pat Shurmur has never even sniffed the playoffs as a head coach. Hell, he's never even sniffed a meaningful december as a head coach.
That 1997 team had ridiculous talent everywhere in Fassel's first year.
Pat Shurmur is a loser. He's never done a damn fucking thing as a head coach. The only thing he does well as a head coach is lose at a rate rarely seen in the history of the sport.
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Pat Shurmurs name belongs with Hue Jacksons, Steve Spagnuolo, Gus Bradley. None of those other guys is ever getting a 2nd head coaching job.
He's a decent offensive coordinator. Nothing else.
however I don't think last nights game was the game to make any decisions based on. We were missing our 3 best offensive weapons, our backup RB, and a LB or two. No one coaching the Giants was winning last night.
Lets see what happens in the next couple of games. We have a chance to win every one.
group that teams use. Serious question, every head coach search I've heard of is a group of former players or employees that the owners trust that come back with a short list. Who's used one successful?
RE: RE: RE: RE: Shurmur is a poor man's Jim Fassel
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Mook - I'll play along but please address my point.
Has Shurmur had ONE roster as talented as Fassel's least talented roster? I'll save you the time. The answer is NO.
So then please explain how an underachieving Fassel who hasn't sniffed another HC gig besides the XFL is such a better HC. Yet Shurmur has had shit to work with but that's all on him? I mean, come on...
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Mook - I'll play along but please address my point.
Has Shurmur had ONE roster as talented as Fassel's least tale
I think so. 1997 and 1998 weren't terribly talented. Don't be fooled by some of the names on those rosters -- they were not yet playing at the level they eventually achieved.
Thank you.. Everything he does screams of average and below average. The poor use of Barkley, the lack of feel for when to throttle up and when to slow it down, the challenges that always appear like he was emotionally driven to it and after failing with the challenge he seems like it was a desperation attempt, poor use of clock, time outs and calling plays for players clearly not suited for it- Eli roll-out on 4th and 2, Hilliman on, well pretty much any play, short yardage plays to Hilliman when Penny was the size power choice etc. and his lack of guts on when to go for it and when not to..
RE: RE: RE: RE: Shurmur is a poor man's Jim Fassel
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
there it is - the dumbest thought of the week, maybe the year. How can you compare that giants 2000 roster to this season's with all the new faces, rookies, and injuries. Fassel was the definition of a guy that got his team to play down to the competition. Shurmur IMO has been the opposite.
Yeah, Shurmur, the guy who has one of the 10 worst records in NFL history as a head coach, is comparable to Jim Fassel.
Fassel had plenty of faults. But he was light years better as a head coach than Pat Shurmur.
Fassel went to the playoffs 3 times. Had a 58-53-1 record as a HC. Pat Shurmur has never even sniffed the playoffs as a head coach. Hell, he's never even sniffed a meaningful december as a head coach.
That 1997 team had ridiculous talent everywhere in Fassel's first year.
Pat Shurmur is a loser. He's never done a damn fucking thing as a head coach. The only thing he does well as a head coach is lose at a rate rarely seen in the history of the sport.
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Pat Shurmurs name belongs with Hue Jacksons, Steve Spagnuolo, Gus Bradley. None of those other guys is ever getting a 2nd head coaching job.
He's a decent offensive coordinator. Nothing else.
Im not a Shurmur fan at all but stacking resumes vs Fassel isnt really fair. Fassel had talent to work with and had two awesome coordinators in Payton and Fox.
I always preach that coaches need talent to win with
But there's really nothing there to hang your hat on that Shurmur knows what to do to turn this team into a winning unit. The defense is atrocious, this is his chosen Defensive Coordinator. His in-game is nothing to write home about. And he seems to like excuses.
The team too often does not seem to know what to do, they don't understand their assignments, and are in general ill-prepared.
now I would like to add on top of that. I don't see much in the way of game planning. The Giants do what they do... I don't see them trying to do different things to take advantage of the opposition weaknesses. And there doesn't seem to be any in game adjustments.
Yeah, players are young, there are lots of rookies, and rookies make mistakes. But they should know the system. They should be mistakes of judgement, taking a bad angle, pinching the edge too aggressively and allowing somebody to outside, not using their leverage and where they have help properly, misreads and the like. I am talking about the things that just come with experience. They shouldn't simply be lost out there. We see too guys lost out there too much. We see to many miscommunications in coverage, or on the OL.
These are all issues with this coaching staff, and how they are handling and preparing this team. It has almost nothing to do with talent.
While there are most definitely talent issue with the Giants, the vast majority of failures are not due to being physically inferior, its due to coachable things.
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Mook - I'll play along but please address my point.
Has Shurmur had ONE roster as talented as Fassel's least tale
I think so. 1997 and 1998 weren't terribly talented. Don't be fooled by some of the names on those rosters -- they were not yet playing at the level they eventually achieved.
what???? those defenses were nasty with fox
97/98 strahan armstead and sehorn were pro bowlers IIRC and hamilton was a BAMF
charles way the best FB in giants history? dont you dare throw shade on boy charles way
Shurmur deserves high praise for sitting Eli and playing DJ
I grant you his play calling at times is not top shelf (attempting to run out of the end zone when the ball's on your own 2 yard line), but I think we have to give Shurmur a few more games to see how well DJ comes along in terms of recognizing coverages. Supposedly Shurmur's forte is schooling QBs, so I'm willing to wait for improvement in DJ before saying Shurmur has to go.
Hes had a couple of questionable play calls each game but overall the O (which is his baby) has looked functional. It helps to have an upgrade at QB. But I think when we get some talent back and add proper talent in the offseason, this will be a top-10 O.
The D is another story. Im holding off judgement on Betcher but aside from some spirited play here and there, that unit looks bad. Theres some talent upfront but hard to tell if the general lack of talent across the back 8 is the sole reason they suck.
RE: Shurmur deserves high praise for sitting Eli and playing DJ
I grant you his play calling at times is not top shelf (attempting to run out of the end zone when the ball's on your own 2 yard line), but I think we have to give Shurmur a few more games to see how well DJ comes along in terms of recognizing coverages. Supposedly Shurmur's forte is schooling QBs, so I'm willing to wait for improvement in DJ before saying Shurmur has to go.
what was wrong with running out of your end zone on first down. Pretty much everyone does it. I don't know about calling a trap there. I will say maybe get a little creative since your so out matched. But is he really outmatched ... they have a decent receiver corp if you include ingram and a great running back.
If you are giving credit to Shurm for benching Eli then why not Mcadoo for starting Geno Smith? I can't believe after losing like what 5 games should been 6 really except tb missed a chip shot and winning one game; one freakin game against the lowly Redskins without Eli; this whole thing this guy gets credit. Eli is not even top4 things wrong with the team.
Thank you.. Everything he does screams of average and below average. The poor use of Barkley, the lack of feel for when to throttle up and when to slow it down, the challenges that always appear like he was emotionally driven to it and after failing with the challenge he seems like it was a desperation attempt, poor use of clock, time outs and calling plays for players clearly not suited for it- Eli roll-out on 4th and 2, Hilliman on, well pretty much any play, short yardage plays to Hilliman when Penny was the size power choice etc. and his lack of guts on when to go for it and when not to..
Well said. I have no idea how someone can watch this guy and think hes a good coach.
Ill ask again- what does he do well? What are his strengths?
As we celebrated Daniel Jones starting debut & win,
Shurmur's horrible clock management got overlooked in the euphoria of the win vs the Bucs! His 2 timeouts w/over 3 minutes left in the game were neither needed or smart.Ultimately,calling those gave the Bucs a little over a minute to drive down the field (which they did!) & kick a FG. If Gay doesn't miss the 34 yarder,the Giant fanbase would have been calling for his head after that game! Perhaps,if he wasn't playing OC on the sidelines (We actually do have one in Shula,but he's kinda like being Vice President of the US) he'd function better as an HC!!!
RE: Shurmur deserves high praise for sitting Eli and playing DJ
I grant you his play calling at times is not top shelf (attempting to run out of the end zone when the ball's on your own 2 yard line), but I think we have to give Shurmur a few more games to see how well DJ comes along in terms of recognizing coverages. Supposedly Shurmur's forte is schooling QBs, so I'm willing to wait for improvement in DJ before saying Shurmur has to go.
Sure, he stays the rest of the season. Let's see if things improve.
Seems there is division among BBI regarding his future.
IMO he needs to win some division games this year other than Washington. I think it would be a major setback going into next year because he "deserves" a third year.
The other thing that I find a little perplexing is the thought he has no talent to work with. Young is spots but there is talent here.
Shurmur is the new whipping boy after Eli.
And then after Shurmur, it will go to the QB, and then after the QB, it will go to whoever the new coach is. 😁
I wonder what year it will be, if ever, where a general human being will be able to consistently see things from 10 steps back.
RE: As we celebrated Daniel Jones starting debut & win,
Shurmur's horrible clock management got overlooked in the euphoria of the win vs the Bucs! His 2 timeouts w/over 3 minutes left in the game were neither needed or smart.Ultimately,calling those gave the Bucs a little over a minute to drive down the field (which they did!) & kick a FG. If Gay doesn't miss the 34 yarder,the Giant fanbase would have been calling for his head after that game! Perhaps,if he wasn't playing OC on the sidelines (We actually do have one in Shula,but he's kinda like being Vice President of the US) he'd function better as an HC!!!
hes a poor game/clock manager.
RE: It's the same damn argument as the QB argument
Let's say they take the advice of many of the "Fire Shurmur OMG he sucks" crowd.....
WHO ARE YOU GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH????
We get complaining by the same posters without presenting ANY alternative much less a viable one. Just proves it's bitching for the sake of bitching.
Seriously, it's the same damn argument. So many people were saying bench Eli. Really? For who? Spend a draft pick on a maybe and not wait for someone they really want/like? They throw a dart at the board approach? They should have drafted Darnold instead of Barkley? Really? They should not have taken the RotY and waited to get quite possibly the next RotY?
Wait and see? Shurmur and Gettleman have only taken the reins but for a minute. Let them build it before you tear it down without so much as a blueprint for how to do it better.
I understand there are a bunch of guys banged up right now. But really who are all these scrubs on the team?
The only regular players who aren't well paid or acquired through high pricks/trades are; Halopio, Latimer, Davis, Haley, and Bethea.
Every other frontline player on this team was a 3rd round pick or higher, or acquired in a trade or UFA.
The Game is played with more than 22 Players...the front line talent is lacking at several spots, some of it talent and some of it experience. There's not enough depth...it's a roster in develpment/
My biggest problem is The Punt... That's about Attitude and outlook of the coach. Morrone disqualified himself with a cowardly 2nd half in a playoff game against the Pats, attempting to "sit on the ball" for a Half. You can't "Remove or improve that". Shurmur's Punt is similar--- it makes you ask whether He has The Balls to take the needed risks in a Big Game.
He hasn't had a Roster to Judge him on, but that Kick was very revealing.... If that's HIM, He's not up to the Job.
This article is a perfect illustration of backwards thinking
The notion that a head coach is brought in to develop a quarterback is completely misguided. And to simply give Shurmur an opportunity in 2020 after two years of total incompetence on display... Pathetic.
Nobody has done shit there. It's been a shitshow of an organization since it's rebirth.
Nobody coaching their way put of that.
No, you can't throw it out. He did nothing to help there, and predictably, he's done nothing to help here. Other than have a vet revolt which led us to get rid of many of the players who had led the team the last time it made the playoffs. He's one of these guys that never seems to have any players. I have no idea why we hired him in the first place.
It's hard not to look like a desperate loser when your team has no talent. Once this team starts winning and he develops dj as a qb then you'll see his coach ability come through. At the very least his players like him and they play hard for him.
Punting late in the game on 4th and 2?
The team played hard all of last year. This is a young team that will take it's lumps because of it. He has a reputation of a quarterback guru and I don't want to get into churning through head coaches or philosophies with DJ.
I think everybody was under the realization last year that we didn't have the talent to consistently compete and we are 1 1/4 years into a fix. He gets 3.
Punting late in the game on 4th and 2?
Since when is that what the measurement should be? Shurmur seems like a nice guy and is a solid QB/Coordinator type. There are a lot of guys like that in the NFL. This is the New York Giants, a championship franchise. We aren't winning championships with this guy as our head coach. Time to realize that and start looking at other candidates.
His game management leaves a lot to be desired. I think he makes bad decisions at crucial times and basically does not seem like he has a good handle on the game.
I know Belichick is the best of all time so its not a fair comparison, but he is in total control of the game and routinely makes the correct decision at critical junctures.
They play hard because most of the guys on this roster are rookies and young guys, some of which wouldn't be playing on other teams because they're not good enough. They're just thrilled to have an opportunity, or don't have the job security to do anything BUT play hard.
"They play hard" isn't actually any kind of evaluation of how good Shurmur is at his job.
I am now convinced that he isn't the right man to lead the team with playoff aspirations. I predicted a 7-9 record this season but next year the Giants should expect to make the playoffs but I don't think Shurmur is the guy to get us there.
If Shurmur is brought back next year, I think he will be, I hope he makes changes to his staff at least.
We dont have a team with enough actual talent to win week in and week out.
We have improvement and things are progressing.
We are also starting a rookie at QB.
Next season is the season to crucify him if he stinks it up.
Why would you want to put DJ in a new offense and have him learn all over again. Continuity is a great thing and I am sure they will be pretty good next season.
No one really wanted to admit we were rebuilding both last year and this year, so its time to come to grip with reality. Stuff doesnt get better over night.
So after two seasons is it fair to say that he should be able to beat the Cowboys and Eagles once in four tries against each one?
I would like to see him gone if he does not beat the Cowboys or Eagles this year.
Hopefully they look at Matt Rhule.
Our defense started a brand new secondary. Full of rookies and DeAndre Baker has played all of 2 weeks of training camp at that point. Also Eli started too.
My biggest concern. Is he anywhere near the best coach in the Division?
This made me laugh out loud. Love the bluntness.
Shurmur as head coach = wasted years. I'm tired of wasting years.
Me too, it should be too separate words. Just like the whole resign/re-sign thing.
The team played hard all of last year. This is a young team that will take it's lumps because of it. He has a reputation of a quarterback guru and I don't want to get into churning through head coaches or philosophies with DJ.
I think everybody was under the realization last year that we didn't have the talent to consistently compete and we are 1 1/4 years into a fix. He gets 3.
This was. Totally legitimate move by the coach. You might disagree it, entitled to your opinion. But to call it inexcusable is a bit much,,,,no?
By the way, he Peppers made the play and Giants got ball back and scored, we be singing his praises for coaching to win.
Your comment, stating a questionable opinion as fact, is what fans do, I get it. But come on, be fair.
"Its gonna take some time man, injuries. Take some time for the offense to get set."
New York Giants vernacular, 2013-present
The way we handled the ElI benching really screwed Shurmur from the start. Could have axed him 2 years ago, still drafted Saquon, and used that cap for better players.
Instead you whined and bitched and moaned and here we are finally headed in the right direction after slowly ripping the bandaid off and you want to reverse course.
Our team has been gutted in 2 years and DG hasnt really landed great FA help but lets put him up on a pedestal.
This is what needed to be done. Shurmur actually deserves a year when we have a more complete team to coach. Hes fair game at that point, but right now hes making something out of nothing. Its actually watchable football.
I don't see why you don't try to preserve time there. In the past, teams have always been reluctant to use a TO there, as to give the opponent time to think about things. Letting the clock run was sorta a rule.
But calling a TO there gives you chance. When Ballentine returned the kickoff from nearly 8 yards deep, that was the right move too considering the clock. A decent to big return could have resulted in a FG with 30 seconds left. When he only reached the 20, you take a knee.
Then you get the ball to start the second half.
Shurmur did the same thing last week versus Minny - but sorta screwed it up by calling an opening run play rather than pass.
And is Shumur related to Jason Tuck?
Hopefully Alan stocked up on Kleenex from Costco before Jones was named the starter.
If it does come to down to a change the Giants should consider who is available to replace him before they fire him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
And he doesnt seem that competent as a HC either. Lets not do the same mental gymnastics on his coaching like we did Elis play. We should realize that this is a lost season and Shurmur is here to keep the seat warm.
Lets hope for a turnaround like Fisher to McVey.
So after two seasons is it fair to say that he should be able to beat the Cowboys and Eagles once in four tries against each one?
I would like to see him gone if he does not beat the Cowboys or Eagles this year.
Hopefully they look at Matt Rhule.
Each one got fired or was close to being fired.. Fans know nothing
Jones is struggling with reads so let's play faster and put him under more intense pressure? Makes no sense.
Down 14 with 7 minutes and a 4th and 2 so let's punt? Mind bogglingly stupid.
Featuring Hilliman over Penny after the rookie has already had fumbles in previous games? He should have minimized this kids exposure. Illogical at best, idiotic at worst and cost us 7 points.
I've supported Shurmur but each week my trust erodes. Gameplan, playcalling, personnel decisions, time management, situational strategies...he's failed in every area.
Jones is struggling with reads so let's play faster and put him under more intense pressure? Makes no sense.
Down 14 with 7 minutes and a 4th and 2 so let's punt? Mind bogglingly stupid.
Featuring Hilliman over Penny after the rookie has already had fumbles in previous games? He should have minimized this kids exposure. Illogical at best, idiotic at worst and cost us 7 points.
I've supported Shurmur but each week my trust erodes. Gameplan, playcalling, personnel decisions, time management, situational strategies...he's failed in every area.
This, there's just too many things he does wrong that have nothing to do with talent level. I am curious what he looks like coaching a talented offense. I think he may be able find good success in this scenerio. Big test coming up with Saquon coming back against a weak defense.
Really low standard to set for an NFL head coach to simply say well the players really tried hard to win the game for him. They were trying to win the game because football is how they make their living and thats what the fuck youre supposed to do when you play football.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
And he doesnt seem that competent as a HC either. Lets not do the same mental gymnastics on his coaching like we did Elis play. We should realize that this is a lost season and Shurmur is here to keep the seat warm.
Lets hope for a turnaround like Fisher to McVey.
Jones has only played a couple quarters with Barkley, and one of the top 2 WR's has been out every game.
Is "opening up the playbook" code for doing a bunch of QB runs??
Because I sure as hell don't want to see that.
Give the job to Bettcher on an interim basis. In the meantime we have between now and January to study and completely rethink how this organization is run. Conduct that study, compile a list of candidates that can execute the plan that comes out of that study, and get to work interviewing them.
But we're not gaining anything by keeping Shurmur on one game longer.
I don't think Shurmur will be around. I don't want to
belabor what others have mentioned on here.
One thing I will add, the way he uses his timeouts can be
annoying as hell, I guess we will throw that under
'game management' or 'clock management' then.
I'm underwhelmed by your faux generosity.
Ton of new players understandably not ready in week one.
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entire playbook would be applicable now that we have a mobile QB.
And he doesnt seem that competent as a HC either. Lets not do the same mental gymnastics on his coaching like we did Elis play. We should realize that this is a lost season and Shurmur is here to keep the seat warm.
Lets hope for a turnaround like Fisher to McVey.
Jones has only played a couple quarters with Barkley, and one of the top 2 WR's has been out every game.
Is "opening up the playbook" code for doing a bunch of QB runs??
Because I sure as hell don't want to see that.
It is difficult to open up the playbook, when 65% of your offense wasn't on the field last night. That might have more merit in the future.
The way we handled the ElI benching really screwed Shurmur from the start. Could have axed him 2 years ago, still drafted Saquon, and used that cap for better players.
Instead you whined and bitched and moaned and here we are finally headed in the right direction after slowly ripping the bandaid off and you want to reverse course.
Our team has been gutted in 2 years and DG hasnt really landed great FA help but lets put him up on a pedestal.
This is what needed to be done. Shurmur actually deserves a year when we have a more complete team to coach. Hes fair game at that point, but right now hes making something out of nothing. Its actually watchable football.
Good points. Shurmur is the guy going through a painful rebuild with a total new roster turned over. he's in year 1 1/2 so far and we may have our franchise QB and RB. He needs 3 years unless the team loses it in the locker room.
Everytime you start over the new regime purges the roster...let the leadership have 3 years.
Yet we would advocate promoting him to HC?
Or did you think the Giants are at the same disadvantage on the sideline than they are on the field. Because they are. If you don't see it you don't know what you're watching.
Even the complete BBI sycophants and Baghdad Bob's are in the you'll have to ask Rudy phase at this point.
If the Giants lose to AZ at home it's pretty much the beginning of the end.
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He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
Seriously - Fassel made it to a Super Bowl - this guy making the playoffs would be a huge career upswing.
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He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
there it is - the dumbest thought of the week, maybe the year. How can you compare that giants 2000 roster to this season's with all the new faces, rookies, and injuries. Fassel was the definition of a guy that got his team to play down to the competition. Shurmur IMO has been the opposite.
WHO ARE YOU GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH????
We get complaining by the same posters without presenting ANY alternative much less a viable one. Just proves it's bitching for the sake of bitching.
Seriously, it's the same damn argument. So many people were saying bench Eli. Really? For who? Spend a draft pick on a maybe and not wait for someone they really want/like? They throw a dart at the board approach? They should have drafted Darnold instead of Barkley? Really? They should not have taken the RotY and waited to get quite possibly the next RotY?
Wait and see? Shurmur and Gettleman have only taken the reins but for a minute. Let them build it before you tear it down without so much as a blueprint for how to do it better.
If the team completes the year playing hard and slowly but surely improves, I think he gets 2020. If not, then try again with another HC.
"Injuries are part of the game". True, but they do have a direct affect on the team's record. Missing 3-4 of your best offensive weapons is going to be reflected in the score.
I do think Shurmur needs to work with a trusted assistant to decide clock management, 4th downs, and challenges. Let Shurmur work his magic with the QB and play calls. McAdoo and TC had some trouble they could have delegated too.
What does he do well? Hes proven to be a bad coach. But the giants will change coordinators or something and give him another losing year before firing him. The sooner hes gone the better.
He is a good OC in the right situation and yes we should
be looking for his replacement . I have no idea who that
might be othere people here may know a younger up and
coming guy but I prefer a former head coach .
Who is the best guy suited to replace Shurmur .
Pats were arrogant assholes last night and BB had no problem
going for it on 4th down .they had zero respect for us and
they have never got over the two losses to us and
it shows after the Golden TD that was a marvelous effort
to score they were shocked it was a punch in the gut
As undermanned as we were I say we beat them when our
guys are back .
Yet we would advocate promoting him to HC?
No, we're advocating firing Shurmur. Someone asked who should take over.
But a sea change is needed in how this team is run. Waiting until the end of the season, or God forbid the end of 2020, is wasting more time.
the fact is if you don't make the right calls when the games out of reach and doesn't matter, how do we know you can when the game is within a score and we need to manage time outs, call the right plays, or take the right chances?
he uses time outs like its going out of style. his decisions to go for it on 4th have no rhyme or reason. he also makes questionable play calls which i'll lay off him on the play calling because a lot of that could be on execution but he needs to adjust!
He's really shouldering way too much blame here. I believe the majority of NFL games are won before they are played. You need talent to win these games. And right now we just don't have enough of it to consistently compete and win. That's Gettleman's job.
Layer on the injuries to key offensive pieces, plus a rookie QB who is dealing with the ups and downs of the rookie cycle, than nothing about these results should be surprising.
If you think these real time questionable decisions by Shurmur are unique to him, I suggest you watch more games because it's sort of an epidemic around the league. From Pete Carroll to Mike Tomlin to Andy Reid to Ron Rivera to etc, there are questionable decisions being made every single game.
But alas, that is not what he meant... Oh well...
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.
He is a good OC in the right situation and yes we should
be looking for his replacement . I have no idea who that
might be othere people here may know a younger up and
coming guy but I prefer a former head coach .
Who is the best guy suited to replace Shurmur .
Pats were arrogant assholes last night and BB had no problem
going for it on 4th down .they had zero respect for us and
they have never got over the two losses to us and
it shows after the Golden TD that was a marvelous effort
to score they were shocked it was a punch in the gut
As undermanned as we were I say we beat them when our
guys are back .
I don't see any signs that he can or does.
I've been suggesting that for a couple years.
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In comment 14624919 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
there it is - the dumbest thought of the week, maybe the year. How can you compare that giants 2000 roster to this season's with all the new faces, rookies, and injuries. Fassel was the definition of a guy that got his team to play down to the competition. Shurmur IMO has been the opposite.
Yeah, Shurmur, the guy who has one of the 10 worst records in NFL history as a head coach, is comparable to Jim Fassel.
Fassel had plenty of faults. But he was light years better as a head coach than Pat Shurmur.
Fassel went to the playoffs 3 times. Had a 58-53-1 record as a HC. Pat Shurmur has never even sniffed the playoffs as a head coach. Hell, he's never even sniffed a meaningful december as a head coach.
That 1997 team had ridiculous talent everywhere in Fassel's first year.
Pat Shurmur is a loser. He's never done a damn fucking thing as a head coach. The only thing he does well as a head coach is lose at a rate rarely seen in the history of the sport.
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Pat Shurmurs name belongs with Hue Jacksons, Steve Spagnuolo, Gus Bradley. None of those other guys is ever getting a 2nd head coaching job.
He's a decent offensive coordinator. Nothing else.
Lets see what happens in the next couple of games. We have a chance to win every one.
Big test coming up with Saquon coming back against a weak defense.
At this point though, any assumption that he'll actually utilize Barkley effectively, aggressively, and consistently is based on nothing but faith.
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Mook - I'll play along but please address my point.
Has Shurmur had ONE roster as talented as Fassel's least talented roster? I'll save you the time. The answer is NO.
So then please explain how an underachieving Fassel who hasn't sniffed another HC gig besides the XFL is such a better HC. Yet Shurmur has had shit to work with but that's all on him? I mean, come on...
you think he bats .300 if he coached the Rams?
He's had some of the worst rosters in the history of the NFL.
So no. Jury is still in deliberation until gettlemen can put something resembling a winning roster on the field.
I see criticism of going up tempo. It was obviously an attempt to mitigate just how badly matchef up we were. Strange criticism.
Nobody coaching their way put of that.
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He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Mook - I'll play along but please address my point.
Has Shurmur had ONE roster as talented as Fassel's least tale
I think so. 1997 and 1998 weren't terribly talented. Don't be fooled by some of the names on those rosters -- they were not yet playing at the level they eventually achieved.
I understand there are a bunch of guys banged up right now. But really who are all these scrubs on the team?
The only regular players who aren't well paid or acquired through high pricks/trades are; Halopio, Latimer, Davis, Haley, and Bethea.
Every other frontline player on this team was a 3rd round pick or higher, or acquired in a trade or UFA.
Thank you.. Everything he does screams of average and below average. The poor use of Barkley, the lack of feel for when to throttle up and when to slow it down, the challenges that always appear like he was emotionally driven to it and after failing with the challenge he seems like it was a desperation attempt, poor use of clock, time outs and calling plays for players clearly not suited for it- Eli roll-out on 4th and 2, Hilliman on, well pretty much any play, short yardage plays to Hilliman when Penny was the size power choice etc. and his lack of guts on when to go for it and when not to..
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In comment 14625005 MookGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14624919 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.
This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
Fassel won 14 games in 2000.
Shurmur has won what, 17 games total in 4 years as a coach.
The guy is a total loser. He couldnt wipe Jim Fassels ass on his best day.
He has to be one of the worst coaches that ever had more than one HC job in the history of the sport.
there it is - the dumbest thought of the week, maybe the year. How can you compare that giants 2000 roster to this season's with all the new faces, rookies, and injuries. Fassel was the definition of a guy that got his team to play down to the competition. Shurmur IMO has been the opposite.
Yeah, Shurmur, the guy who has one of the 10 worst records in NFL history as a head coach, is comparable to Jim Fassel.
Fassel had plenty of faults. But he was light years better as a head coach than Pat Shurmur.
Fassel went to the playoffs 3 times. Had a 58-53-1 record as a HC. Pat Shurmur has never even sniffed the playoffs as a head coach. Hell, he's never even sniffed a meaningful december as a head coach.
That 1997 team had ridiculous talent everywhere in Fassel's first year.
Pat Shurmur is a loser. He's never done a damn fucking thing as a head coach. The only thing he does well as a head coach is lose at a rate rarely seen in the history of the sport.
He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Pat Shurmurs name belongs with Hue Jacksons, Steve Spagnuolo, Gus Bradley. None of those other guys is ever getting a 2nd head coaching job.
He's a decent offensive coordinator. Nothing else.
Im not a Shurmur fan at all but stacking resumes vs Fassel isnt really fair. Fassel had talent to work with and had two awesome coordinators in Payton and Fox.
now I would like to add on top of that. I don't see much in the way of game planning. The Giants do what they do... I don't see them trying to do different things to take advantage of the opposition weaknesses. And there doesn't seem to be any in game adjustments.
Yeah, players are young, there are lots of rookies, and rookies make mistakes. But they should know the system. They should be mistakes of judgement, taking a bad angle, pinching the edge too aggressively and allowing somebody to outside, not using their leverage and where they have help properly, misreads and the like. I am talking about the things that just come with experience. They shouldn't simply be lost out there. We see too guys lost out there too much. We see to many miscommunications in coverage, or on the OL.
These are all issues with this coaching staff, and how they are handling and preparing this team. It has almost nothing to do with talent.
While there are most definitely talent issue with the Giants, the vast majority of failures are not due to being physically inferior, its due to coachable things.
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In comment 14625279 MookGiants said:
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He was a loser when they hired him and nothing has changed. Pat Shurmur's name belongs no where near Jim Fassel's name.
Mook - I'll play along but please address my point.
Has Shurmur had ONE roster as talented as Fassel's least tale
I think so. 1997 and 1998 weren't terribly talented. Don't be fooled by some of the names on those rosters -- they were not yet playing at the level they eventually achieved.
what???? those defenses were nasty with fox
97/98 strahan armstead and sehorn were pro bowlers IIRC and hamilton was a BAMF
charles way the best FB in giants history? dont you dare throw shade on boy charles way
The D is another story. Im holding off judgement on Betcher but aside from some spirited play here and there, that unit looks bad. Theres some talent upfront but hard to tell if the general lack of talent across the back 8 is the sole reason they suck.
what was wrong with running out of your end zone on first down. Pretty much everyone does it. I don't know about calling a trap there. I will say maybe get a little creative since your so out matched. But is he really outmatched ... they have a decent receiver corp if you include ingram and a great running back.
If you are giving credit to Shurm for benching Eli then why not Mcadoo for starting Geno Smith? I can't believe after losing like what 5 games should been 6 really except tb missed a chip shot and winning one game; one freakin game against the lowly Redskins without Eli; this whole thing this guy gets credit. Eli is not even top4 things wrong with the team.
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Thank you.. Everything he does screams of average and below average. The poor use of Barkley, the lack of feel for when to throttle up and when to slow it down, the challenges that always appear like he was emotionally driven to it and after failing with the challenge he seems like it was a desperation attempt, poor use of clock, time outs and calling plays for players clearly not suited for it- Eli roll-out on 4th and 2, Hilliman on, well pretty much any play, short yardage plays to Hilliman when Penny was the size power choice etc. and his lack of guts on when to go for it and when not to..
Well said. I have no idea how someone can watch this guy and think hes a good coach.
Ill ask again- what does he do well? What are his strengths?
Sure, he stays the rest of the season. Let's see if things improve.
Seems there is division among BBI regarding his future.
IMO he needs to win some division games this year other than Washington. I think it would be a major setback going into next year because he "deserves" a third year.
The other thing that I find a little perplexing is the thought he has no talent to work with. Young is spots but there is talent here.
And then after Shurmur, it will go to the QB, and then after the QB, it will go to whoever the new coach is. 😁
I wonder what year it will be, if ever, where a general human being will be able to consistently see things from 10 steps back.
WHO ARE YOU GOING TO REPLACE HIM WITH????
We get complaining by the same posters without presenting ANY alternative much less a viable one. Just proves it's bitching for the sake of bitching.
Seriously, it's the same damn argument. So many people were saying bench Eli. Really? For who? Spend a draft pick on a maybe and not wait for someone they really want/like? They throw a dart at the board approach? They should have drafted Darnold instead of Barkley? Really? They should not have taken the RotY and waited to get quite possibly the next RotY?
Wait and see? Shurmur and Gettleman have only taken the reins but for a minute. Let them build it before you tear it down without so much as a blueprint for how to do it better.
Agreed!
I understand there are a bunch of guys banged up right now. But really who are all these scrubs on the team?
The only regular players who aren't well paid or acquired through high pricks/trades are; Halopio, Latimer, Davis, Haley, and Bethea.
Every other frontline player on this team was a 3rd round pick or higher, or acquired in a trade or UFA.
The Game is played with more than 22 Players...the front line talent is lacking at several spots, some of it talent and some of it experience. There's not enough depth...it's a roster in develpment/
My biggest problem is The Punt... That's about Attitude and outlook of the coach. Morrone disqualified himself with a cowardly 2nd half in a playoff game against the Pats, attempting to "sit on the ball" for a Half. You can't "Remove or improve that". Shurmur's Punt is similar--- it makes you ask whether He has The Balls to take the needed risks in a Big Game.
He hasn't had a Roster to Judge him on, but that Kick was very revealing.... If that's HIM, He's not up to the Job.
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Nobody coaching their way put of that.