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Time to lay off Shumur

Alan in Toledo : 10/11/2019 1:16 pm
The team, last year and this, consistently plays hard for him while continuing to improve.

What's not to like?
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The terrible personnel choices?  
Greg from LI : 10/11/2019 1:18 pm : link
The awful clock management?
Punting late in the game on 4th and 2?
...  
HitSquad : 10/11/2019 1:19 pm : link
I think the team is prepared and motivated to play for him, but I'm not really in love with his in-game management. Things like 4th-down decisions, play-calling, etc.
Agreed  
SLIM_ : 10/11/2019 1:21 pm : link
It was inexcusable to call time out at 3rd and 6 with Brady but we didn't lose because of Shurmur.

The team played hard all of last year. This is a young team that will take it's lumps because of it. He has a reputation of a quarterback guru and I don't want to get into churning through head coaches or philosophies with DJ.

I think everybody was under the realization last year that we didn't have the talent to consistently compete and we are 1 1/4 years into a fix. He gets 3.
RE: The terrible personnel choices?  
Jints in Carolina : 10/11/2019 1:21 pm : link
In comment 14624827 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
The awful clock management?
Punting late in the game on 4th and 2?


oh  
Matt in SGS : 10/11/2019 1:22 pm : link
I read that title as you wanted fire him.
As we've said a thousand times  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2019 1:22 pm : link
the bar for a head coach in the NFL is not "the players play hard for him"

Since when is that what the measurement should be? Shurmur seems like a nice guy and is a solid QB/Coordinator type. There are a lot of guys like that in the NFL. This is the New York Giants, a championship franchise. We aren't winning championships with this guy as our head coach. Time to realize that and start looking at other candidates.
I donít know what heís doing during the week  
Oscar : 10/11/2019 1:22 pm : link
As you stated, the team played hard last night despite being severely undermanned and outgunned.

His game management leaves a lot to be desired. I think he makes bad decisions at crucial times and basically does not seem like he has a good handle on the game.

I know Belichick is the best of all time so itís not a fair comparison, but he is in total control of the game and routinely makes the correct decision at critical junctures.
What kind of pathetic standard is "they play hard"?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/11/2019 1:23 pm : link
Do you know why they play hard? I'll take a guess at it.

They play hard because most of the guys on this roster are rookies and young guys, some of which wouldn't be playing on other teams because they're not good enough. They're just thrilled to have an opportunity, or don't have the job security to do anything BUT play hard.

"They play hard" isn't actually any kind of evaluation of how good Shurmur is at his job.
Here's what's not to like  
arniefez : 10/11/2019 1:24 pm : link
he doesn't win and he doesn't know how to win or run a game as a head coach. After 4 years that's a disaster.
"Thank you Uncle Alan"  
Bubba : 10/11/2019 1:25 pm : link
Pat S.
Again..  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2019 1:25 pm : link
playing hard should not be a reason to keep a head coach. The Redskins played hard for Jay Gruden, and they went 35-49 during his tenure there, they kept him for 6 seasons when it was clear he wasn't a good coach. Let's not make the same mistake. Shurmur has given zero indication, past or present, that he's a good NFL head coach. The reservations about hiring a retread HC/coordinator have been proven exactly correct. Time to call a spade a spade. Why are we sugarcoating this?
The 'Well, the team plays  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/11/2019 1:26 pm : link
hard under him' line is such BS. They're professionals. They should be playing hard. They're being paid obscene amount of $.
What's going to be the excuse  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2019 1:27 pm : link
when we go 6-10 this season? Well...we didn't have the pieces. We will go 8-8 next year and it'll be "well...2021 is really when things are expecting to go our way..." Enough with this horseshit.
I will give him credit  
Jay on the Island : 10/11/2019 1:29 pm : link
the team never quits on him which is a good sign. I was happy when he was hired because of his history working with QB's and his track record as an OC.

I am now convinced that he isn't the right man to lead the team with playoff aspirations. I predicted a 7-9 record this season but next year the Giants should expect to make the playoffs but I don't think Shurmur is the guy to get us there.

If Shurmur is brought back next year, I think he will be, I hope he makes changes to his staff at least.
He sucks as a HC  
JonC : 10/11/2019 1:30 pm : link
.
The main problem with Shurmur  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2019 1:30 pm : link
is he doesn't seem to be a motivator. He seems perfectly OK with a tough loss or a loss. Press conferences, he doesn't say anything that leads you to believe he's really pissed that guys didn't play well. Hold these players accountable. Shake things up. Jesus christ you are 7-15 so far as the coach of the team.
Something I've noticed about him that is annoying as hell  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/11/2019 1:32 pm : link
is how, when legitimately asked a direct/honest ?, he becomes very defensive. I hate that in all walks of life, much less a HC of my team.
to compare...  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2019 1:32 pm : link
Steelers always complain about game management with Mike Tomlin. I'd be able to live with Shurmur's game management if he was a great motivator, great game planner, and really good X's and O's guy, things that a guy like Tomlin seems to be. Shurmur isn't particularly good at anything, except being a pretty nice guy and he holds the locker room together, which about 150 guys in the NFL could do.
RE: What's going to be the excuse  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14624854 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
when we go 6-10 this season? Well...we didn't have the pieces. We will go 8-8 next year and it'll be "well...2021 is really when things are expecting to go our way..." Enough with this horseshit.


We donít have a team with enough actual talent to win week in and week out.

We have improvement and things are progressing.

We are also starting a rookie at QB.

Next season is the season to crucify him if he stinks it up.

Why would you want to put DJ in a new offense and have him learn all over again. Continuity is a great thing and I am sure they will be pretty good next season.

No one really wanted to admit we were rebuilding both last year and this year, so itís time to come to grip with reality. Stuff doesnít get better over night.
Parcells, Coughlin, Belichick  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/11/2019 1:33 pm : link
What do they have in common? They won. I don't hear the highest praise of them is that their teams "played hard". It is way down the list of accolades.

So after two seasons is it fair to say that he should be able to beat the Cowboys and Eagles once in four tries against each one?

I would like to see him gone if he does not beat the Cowboys or Eagles this year.

Hopefully they look at Matt Rhule.
I think you are confusing playing hard for him and being loyal  
Dinger : 10/11/2019 1:34 pm : link
Last nights game was the hardest game they've played. I'll say it again (as I did on another post); How can he have them up for this game but not the season opener? Against a division rival?
if you're fine  
broadbandz : 10/11/2019 1:35 pm : link
with losing and moral victories. Pat is your man.
Unless we fall off the map & finish something like 3-13,  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/11/2019 1:35 pm : link
I don't see Shurmur going anywhere. But next year is a big one for him & everyone.
RE: I think you are confusing playing hard for him and being loyal  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2019 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14624871 Dinger said:
Quote:
Last nights game was the hardest game they've played. I'll say it again (as I did on another post); How can he have them up for this game but not the season opener? Against a division rival?


Our defense started a brand new secondary. Full of rookies and DeAndre Baker has played all of 2 weeks of training camp at that point. Also Eli started too.
BigBlueDown  
ryanmkeane : 10/11/2019 1:36 pm : link
what I'm saying is, we already know what Shurmur is. Why waste another season? That makes even less sense than changing it up. Players can adapt to the system. It's really not that big of a deal.
So..  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 10/11/2019 1:36 pm : link
How do you guys feel about the "team played hard for him" line? It would be interesting to get some feedback on that.
RE: if you're fine  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/11/2019 1:36 pm : link
In comment 14624873 broadbandz said:
Quote:
with losing and moral victories. Pat is your man.


My biggest concern. Is he anywhere near the best coach in the Division?
RE: He sucks as a HC  
Go Terps : 10/11/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14624860 JonC said:
Quote:
.


This made me laugh out loud. Love the bluntness.

Shurmur as head coach = wasted years. I'm tired of wasting years.
I was on fence about Shurmur, well I"m hopping on the side  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 1:39 pm : link
of getting rid of the guy. His game management is most likely not getting any better. Punting on 4th and 2 is inexcusable and something a coach in his 4TH year shouldn't make.
He makes me miss McAdoo  
Route 9 : 10/11/2019 1:40 pm : link
...
RE: oh  
Eli Wilson : 10/11/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14624840 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
I read that title as you wanted fire him.


Me too, it should be too separate words. Just like the whole resign/re-sign thing.
RE: Agreed  
joeinpa : 10/11/2019 1:44 pm : link
In comment 14624837 SLIM_ said:
Quote:
It was inexcusable to call time out at 3rd and 6 with Brady but we didn't lose because of Shurmur.

The team played hard all of last year. This is a young team that will take it's lumps because of it. He has a reputation of a quarterback guru and I don't want to get into churning through head coaches or philosophies with DJ.

I think everybody was under the realization last year that we didn't have the talent to consistently compete and we are 1 1/4 years into a fix. He gets 3.


This was. Totally legitimate move by the coach. You might disagree it, entitled to your opinion. But to call it inexcusable is a bit much,,,,no?

By the way, he Peppers made the play and Giants got ball back and scored, we be singing his praises for coaching to win.

Your comment, stating a questionable opinion as fact, is what fans do, I get it. But come on, be fair.
RE: What's going to be the excuse  
Route 9 : 10/11/2019 1:45 pm : link
In comment 14624854 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
when we go 6-10 this season? Well...we didn't have the pieces. We will go 8-8 next year and it'll be "well...2021 is really when things are expecting to go our way..." Enough with this horseshit.


"Its gonna take some time man, injuries. Take some time for the offense to get set."

New York Giants vernacular, 2013-present
Terps nailed it  
aimrocky : 10/11/2019 1:46 pm : link
I was about to say that I'm tired of wasting years and the longer he hangs around, the more time that is wasted.
By lay off  
pjcas18 : 10/11/2019 1:47 pm : link
do you mean let go, IOW fire?

Some of you live in LALa land  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/11/2019 1:47 pm : link
We were never ever going to be a good team this season.

The way we handled the ElI benching really screwed Shurmur from the start. Could have axed him 2 years ago, still drafted Saquon, and used that cap for better players.

Instead you whined and bitched and moaned and here we are finally headed in the right direction after slowly ripping the bandaid off and you want to reverse course.

Our team has been gutted in 2 years and DG hasnít really landed great FA help but letís put him up on a pedestal.

This is what needed to be done. Shurmur actually deserves a year when we have a more complete team to coach. Heís fair game at that point, but right now heís making something out of nothing. Itís actually watchable football.
Are people criticizing him..  
BillKo : 10/11/2019 1:49 pm : link
..for using the TO late in the second quarter, when NE had the ball as was going in for a TD?

I don't see why you don't try to preserve time there. In the past, teams have always been reluctant to use a TO there, as to give the opponent time to think about things. Letting the clock run was sorta a rule.

But calling a TO there gives you chance. When Ballentine returned the kickoff from nearly 8 yards deep, that was the right move too considering the clock. A decent to big return could have resulted in a FG with 30 seconds left. When he only reached the 20, you take a knee.

Then you get the ball to start the second half.

Shurmur did the same thing last week versus Minny - but sorta screwed it up by calling an opening run play rather than pass.
RE: By lay off  
Les in TO : 10/11/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14624897 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
do you mean let go, IOW fire?
lol my thoughts exactly

And is Shumur related to Jason Tuck?

Hopefully Alan stocked up on Kleenex from Costco before Jones was named the starter.
He's a good OC  
Marty866b : 10/11/2019 1:50 pm : link
He is not a good head coach. The sooner the Giants get off this guy the better off they will be.
He deserves a better roster  
JonC : 10/11/2019 1:51 pm : link
and while I'd expect a better end result, there's just too many voids in his demonstrated skillset to allow me to bet on him to succeed here. Red alerts in my head.
Give him this year and next year with Jones  
Reale01 : 10/11/2019 1:52 pm : link
He does seem to be good with QBs. Maybe the team will turn things around, maybe not. Then you can look to bring someone else in.

If it does come to down to a change the Giants should consider who is available to replace him before they fire him.
Shurmur is a poor man's Jim Fassel  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/11/2019 1:58 pm : link
He'll never win anything, make head scratching decisions, will get ahead if he has superior assistants and because he's a nice guy players will play hard for him.

This team had gone through this already before they hired Coughlin. Not only does this team need a continued infusion in talent, but a real kick in the ass in the coaching department is required
I have still yet to see any creative play calling, I thought the  
Jim in Hoboken : 10/11/2019 2:03 pm : link
entire playbook would be applicable now that we have a mobile QB.

And he doesnít seem that competent as a HC either. Letís not do the same mental gymnastics on his coaching like we did Eliís play. We should realize that this is a lost season and Shurmur is here to keep the seat warm.

Letís hope for a turnaround like Fisher to McVey.
RE: Parcells, Coughlin, Belichick  
Gettledogman : 10/11/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14624870 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
What do they have in common? They won. I don't hear the highest praise of them is that their teams "played hard". It is way down the list of accolades.

So after two seasons is it fair to say that he should be able to beat the Cowboys and Eagles once in four tries against each one?

I would like to see him gone if he does not beat the Cowboys or Eagles this year.

Hopefully they look at Matt Rhule.


Each one got fired or was close to being fired.. Fans know nothing
Shurmur's offensive plan was crap  
Torrag : 10/11/2019 2:23 pm : link
Our defense is out there huge minutes and the nitwit goes hurry up. Huh? How about let's use the clock to gain some time of possession and give the D a breather. Offensive genius at work? I think not.

Jones is struggling with reads so let's play faster and put him under more intense pressure? Makes no sense.

Down 14 with 7 minutes and a 4th and 2 so let's punt? Mind bogglingly stupid.

Featuring Hilliman over Penny after the rookie has already had fumbles in previous games? He should have minimized this kids exposure. Illogical at best, idiotic at worst and cost us 7 points.

I've supported Shurmur but each week my trust erodes. Gameplan, playcalling, personnel decisions, time management, situational strategies...he's failed in every area.
To be fair,  
BBelle21 : 10/11/2019 2:25 pm : link
each individual interception, turnover, missed tackle, receivers not making tough catches, etc. none of these are really Shurmurís fault; but added all up, it paints the picture of a team who does play hard for Shurmur but are doing it badly. They look like a badly coached team especially in comparison to Belichickís team.
He's a goid ol golly oh gee shucks  
micky : 10/11/2019 2:27 pm : link
Hc. You cannot ever get rid of those easy going hc's ..they are one in a million!
RE: Shurmur's offensive plan was crap  
Les in TO : 10/11/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14624957 Torrag said:
Quote:
Our defense is out there huge minutes and the nitwit goes hurry up. Huh? How about let's use the clock to gain some time of possession and give the D a breather. Offensive genius at work? I think not.

Jones is struggling with reads so let's play faster and put him under more intense pressure? Makes no sense.

Down 14 with 7 minutes and a 4th and 2 so let's punt? Mind bogglingly stupid.

Featuring Hilliman over Penny after the rookie has already had fumbles in previous games? He should have minimized this kids exposure. Illogical at best, idiotic at worst and cost us 7 points.

I've supported Shurmur but each week my trust erodes. Gameplan, playcalling, personnel decisions, time management, situational strategies...he's failed in every area.
good post
I worry a little bit  
BBelle21 : 10/11/2019 2:29 pm : link
about how tight the windows are that Daniel is throwing into. Baldy called this out when Eli was playing. Thereís no separation and he seemed to be indirectly pointing at Shurmurís scheme. Weíre seeing the same thing with Daniel now except heís throwing it and getting intercepted rather than checking down like Eli did. Not too sure about Shurmur.
RE: He deserves a better roster  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/11/2019 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14624908 JonC said:
Quote:
and while I'd expect a better end result, there's just too many voids in his demonstrated skillset to allow me to bet on him to succeed here. Red alerts in my head.


This, there's just too many things he does wrong that have nothing to do with talent level. I am curious what he looks like coaching a talented offense. I think he may be able find good success in this scenerio. Big test coming up with Saquon coming back against a weak defense.
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