We will not get an elite edge via free agency. Just doesn’t happen in FA and must go through the draft for an elite edge. I am sure some will disagree, whatever.
However, you can get a quality RT or FS through FA and am curious if talent evaluators on this site believe any to be available in 202” FA when we will have quite a bit of spending money?
Interesting nugget, he sounds like he would be a great signing.
As for FA, the OT's that I find intriguing are Jack Conklin, Daryl Williams, and DJ Humphries.
Yannick is going to be extremely expensive. Shaq Barrett is going to be cheaper due to age and 1 year of production, but I feel very comfortable about his game aging well. He uses power and leverage to set up his pass rush moves.
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There are two very good Edge rushers set to hit the market in Yannick Ngakoue and Shaq Barrett. Ngakoue makes so much sense for the Giants as he is only 24.
Yannick is going to be extremely expensive. Shaq Barrett is going to be cheaper due to age and 1 year of production, but I feel very comfortable about his game aging well. He uses power and leverage to set up his pass rush moves.
I expect the Bucs to franchise Barrett. Yannick is going to be very expensive but he's the type of player Gettleman should be targeting. Stay clear of players like Clowney. Ngakoue is a consistent pass rusher who is extremely young. The Jags will likely not be able to afford him due to their cap situation.
I don't see the benefit in giving up picks when he will hit FA in the spring. Carolina won't keep him. He is in limbo - a man without a position. A few more months of limbo will lower the demand on him. Make no mistake about it before injury, he was an All-Pro RT. Some players aren't a Swiss Army knife. They play one position really well and not multiple positions despite coaches trying to make them.
As for FA, the OT's that I find intriguing are Jack Conklin, Daryl Williams, and DJ Humphries.
Ifedi as well if he hits the market.
Center needs to be upgraded along with LT. Solder’s contract probably gives him another year but the Giants need someone in the pipe to step in 2021.
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I would look to the draft to address one spot. I hope the Giants use at least one of their top 4 picks on OL. Remember the Giants are going to receive a comp 3rd round pick for losing Collins in FA.
As for FA, the OT's that I find intriguing are Jack Conklin, Daryl Williams, and DJ Humphries.
Ifedi as well if he hits the market.
Center needs to be upgraded along with LT. Solder’s contract probably gives him another year but the Giants need someone in the pipe to step in 2021.
The only FA that I think makes sense is NE's Ted Karras. He's done a solid job stepping in for Andrews and he will be cheap.
I would look to the draft for a center. Let Karras battle the rookie, Halapio and Pulley for the the starting job and 1-2 backup spots.
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In comment 14625745 Jay on the Island said:
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I would look to the draft to address one spot. I hope the Giants use at least one of their top 4 picks on OL. Remember the Giants are going to receive a comp 3rd round pick for losing Collins in FA.
As for FA, the OT's that I find intriguing are Jack Conklin, Daryl Williams, and DJ Humphries.
Ifedi as well if he hits the market.
Center needs to be upgraded along with LT. Solder’s contract probably gives him another year but the Giants need someone in the pipe to step in 2021.
The only FA that I think makes sense is NE's Ted Karras. He's done a solid job stepping in for Andrews and he will be cheap.
I would look to the draft for a center. Let Karras battle the rookie, Halapio and Pulley for the the starting job and 1-2 backup spots.
Center is light in FA. Not opposed to taking Biadasz in the 1st and forgetting about Center for the next 10 years.
2020 would have been our "Out" year if we hadn't restructured his contract. There only would have been an $8M dead cap hit if he was released before his roster bonus. But due to the restructure, we will take on a $13M dead cap hit if released before the RB. He will likely be our LT next year, and released in 2021 with $6.5M dead cap hit then.
Solder's Deal - ( New Window )
Offensive Tackles
They can get out of it tomorrow. The question is how is cost. He's signed through 2021.
FS, Love wins the job if not draft 2020.
Impact ER - High draft pick only, if available
Whether to sign him or anyone else via FA, will be decided upon close evaluation by the guys in charge.
As far as Solder is concerned, as of now, I'm inclined to cut him and take the $13M cap hit.
Whether to sign him or anyone else via FA, will be decided upon close evaluation by the guys in charge.
Important to keep in mind how many high picks the Giants have had 1) from being terrible and picking at the top of rounds 2) trading JPP, Snacks, Apple, and OBJ afforded both volume and resources to move up.
This will be the first year Gettleman has a "normal" amount of picks and might be outside of the top 10.
He's got to do a lot better with the UFA be brings on.
As far as Solder is concerned, as of now, I'm inclined to cut him and take the $13M cap hit.
With the money they have it makes sense to pay for young quality players at impact positions. They’re going to have a QB on a rookie contract.
There’s a difference between backing up the truck for Vernon/Snacks/Jenkins and Conklin/Yannick. Conklin/Yannick are young who have proven to have all-pro upside. That’s not a bad investment.
That and Jacksonville is like 10 mil over the 2020 cap. Bringing in a premier pass rusher who is 24 would be a great move.
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rather not sign any expensive FAs, regardless of how much cap money we have. Those signings rarely work, and DG also has a very poor FA record. I'd rather get some second tier FAs like Karras or maybe Williams. No to Yannick Ngakoue or Shaq Barrett.
As far as Solder is concerned, as of now, I'm inclined to cut him and take the $13M cap hit.
With the money they have it makes sense to pay for young quality players at impact positions. They’re going to have a QB on a rookie contract.
There’s a difference between backing up the truck for Vernon/Snacks/Jenkins and Conklin/Yannick. Conklin/Yannick are young who have proven to have all-pro upside. That’s not a bad investment.
Vernon was only 25 when we signed him and uninjured. Until he came here
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In comment 14625877 AcidTest said:
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rather not sign any expensive FAs, regardless of how much cap money we have. Those signings rarely work, and DG also has a very poor FA record. I'd rather get some second tier FAs like Karras or maybe Williams. No to Yannick Ngakoue or Shaq Barrett.
As far as Solder is concerned, as of now, I'm inclined to cut him and take the $13M cap hit.
With the money they have it makes sense to pay for young quality players at impact positions. They’re going to have a QB on a rookie contract.
There’s a difference between backing up the truck for Vernon/Snacks/Jenkins and Conklin/Yannick. Conklin/Yannick are young who have proven to have all-pro upside. That’s not a bad investment.
Vernon was only 25 when we signed him and uninjured. Until he came here
True, but the mistake was in the projection. It was an assumption that a young, healthy DE would produce double-digit sacks when he never did before. The narrative changed towards the end of Vernon's tenure to that of QB pressure/disruption was just as good as a sack.
With Yannick, there is no projection. Double-digit sack production every year with a key stat of force-fumbles. Some players have a natural skill in separating the QB from the ball, others just rush to sack a target. Yannick is young, healthy, and proven production. He will get Demarcus Lawrence money and will be worth it.
Or we can hope to draft/develop a prospect that will yield the same results. But you can shit in one hand and hope in the other and see which one fills up faster.
He's a good not great player, and he's going to get paid very well. This is one of the direct benefits to 2nd contract guys form this CBA.
The Giants should cut Kareem Martin and re-sign Golden to a 2 year deal. A rotation of Ximines, Carter, and Golden will get you plenty of edge rush. Lawrence is an absolute stud. He's the guy teams are going to fear.
My favorite free agents this offseason are Dennis Kelly, Markus Golden, and Willie Snead.
Put in major Stud edge rusher...makes those other guys that much more effective
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In comment 14625937 WillVAB said:
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In comment 14625877 AcidTest said:
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rather not sign any expensive FAs, regardless of how much cap money we have. Those signings rarely work, and DG also has a very poor FA record. I'd rather get some second tier FAs like Karras or maybe Williams. No to Yannick Ngakoue or Shaq Barrett.
As far as Solder is concerned, as of now, I'm inclined to cut him and take the $13M cap hit.
With the money they have it makes sense to pay for young quality players at impact positions. They’re going to have a QB on a rookie contract.
There’s a difference between backing up the truck for Vernon/Snacks/Jenkins and Conklin/Yannick. Conklin/Yannick are young who have proven to have all-pro upside. That’s not a bad investment.
Vernon was only 25 when we signed him and uninjured. Until he came here
True, but the mistake was in the projection. It was an assumption that a young, healthy DE would produce double-digit sacks when he never did before. The narrative changed towards the end of Vernon's tenure to that of QB pressure/disruption was just as good as a sack.
With Yannick, there is no projection. Double-digit sack production every year with a key stat of force-fumbles. Some players have a natural skill in separating the QB from the ball, others just rush to sack a target. Yannick is young, healthy, and proven production. He will get Demarcus Lawrence money and will be worth it.
Or we can hope to draft/develop a prospect that will yield the same results. But you can shit in one hand and hope in the other and see which one fills up faster.
Exactly. You know what you’re getting with Yannick. He’s a disruptive player capable of wrecking games off the edge.
There was none of that with Vernon. Even when he was signed here a lot of people didn’t like it due to the 8-9 sacks a year totals. The rebuttal was pressures and a bunch of other nonsense. We saw how that turned out.
Generally speaking it’s bad to pay top dollar for FA’s but sometimes organizations make mistakes letting guys go. I think this is one of those mistakes the Giants need to capitalize on.
If sacks are the (silly) measure and the reason over spend on someone, he's probably not your guy.
He's a good not great player, and he's going to get paid very well. This is one of the direct benefits to 2nd contract guys form this CBA.
The Giants should cut Kareem Martin and re-sign Golden to a 2 year deal. A rotation of Ximines, Carter, and Golden will get you plenty of edge rush. Lawrence is an absolute stud. He's the guy teams are going to fear.
My favorite free agents this offseason are Dennis Kelly, Markus Golden, and Willie Snead.
He’s in year 4 of a rookie contract. He’s had 8, 12, and 9.5 sacks in his first 3 years. Your first point is misleading.
Golden has mileage with a major injury knee injury. The other two guys will probably never be as productive as Yannick.
The Giants don’t need to dumpster dive in FA this year. They have plenty of space and the big re-signs are 4 years away.
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Ngakoue has had double digit sack production once in his career, maybe he gets there again this year.
He's a good not great player, and he's going to get paid very well. This is one of the direct benefits to 2nd contract guys form this CBA.
The Giants should cut Kareem Martin and re-sign Golden to a 2 year deal. A rotation of Ximines, Carter, and Golden will get you plenty of edge rush. Lawrence is an absolute stud. He's the guy teams are going to fear.
My favorite free agents this offseason are Dennis Kelly, Markus Golden, and Willie Snead.
He’s in year 4 of a rookie contract. He’s had 8, 12, and 9.5 sacks in his first 3 years. Your first point is misleading.
Golden has mileage with a major injury knee injury. The other two guys will probably never be as productive as Yannick.
The Giants don’t need to dumpster dive in FA this year. They have plenty of space and the big re-signs are 4 years away.
By misleading, you mean correct?
If sacks are the (silly) measure and the reason over spend on someone, he's probably not your guy.
If we are just comparing apples to apples, Yannick has already accomplished in 3 years what it took Vernon to do in 4. Now, go and look at the Force Fumbles for each. In Vernon's entire career, he has 7. When on his rookie deal all 4 years, he had 3. Yannick in 3 years has 11 FF.
I know it sounds "silly" to break down ER influence on the game by sacks and force fumbles, but the NFL is a production based business. Teams lose when they "project" what a player will do instead of counting what they are capable of.
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Let's see what Ngakoue does the rest of the year. Through 4 years pre-Giants Vernon had 29 career sacks. Through 3 years and a quarter years Ngakoue has 31.5.
If sacks are the (silly) measure and the reason over spend on someone, he's probably not your guy.
If we are just comparing apples to apples, Yannick has already accomplished in 3 years what it took Vernon to do in 4. Now, go and look at the Force Fumbles for each. In Vernon's entire career, he has 7. When on his rookie deal all 4 years, he had 3. Yannick in 3 years has 11 FF.
I know it sounds "silly" to break down ER influence on the game by sacks and force fumbles, but the NFL is a production based business. Teams lose when they "project" what a player will do instead of counting what they are capable of.
He's a perfectly good player, with perfectly good production. He's a level above where Vernon was at this point in his career.
He's not a great player, even if your measure is sacks.
If you want to pay him like a great player, you might want to at least project he'll be great, no?
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In comment 14626054 christian said:
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Let's see what Ngakoue does the rest of the year. Through 4 years pre-Giants Vernon had 29 career sacks. Through 3 years and a quarter years Ngakoue has 31.5.
If sacks are the (silly) measure and the reason over spend on someone, he's probably not your guy.
If we are just comparing apples to apples, Yannick has already accomplished in 3 years what it took Vernon to do in 4. Now, go and look at the Force Fumbles for each. In Vernon's entire career, he has 7. When on his rookie deal all 4 years, he had 3. Yannick in 3 years has 11 FF.
I know it sounds "silly" to break down ER influence on the game by sacks and force fumbles, but the NFL is a production based business. Teams lose when they "project" what a player will do instead of counting what they are capable of.
He's a perfectly good player, with perfectly good production. He's a level above where Vernon was at this point in his career.
He's not a great player, even if your measure is sacks.
If you want to pay him like a great player, you might want to at least project he'll be great, no?
Get used to player salary inflation. I said in the beginning of the thread that Yannick will get DLaw money. Whether you think Demarcus is a great player is up for debate. But looking at what Demarcus has accomplished in 6 seasons, he has 36.5 sacks and 10 FF. Yannick in 4 seasons is at 31.5 sacks and 11 FF.
Chasing a guy with a huge salary, especially because of something so under-telling as sack numbers is silly.
I really hope the Giants don't do that. The last GM did and got fired.
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In comment 14625985 christian said:
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Ngakoue has had double digit sack production once in his career, maybe he gets there again this year.
He's a good not great player, and he's going to get paid very well. This is one of the direct benefits to 2nd contract guys form this CBA.
The Giants should cut Kareem Martin and re-sign Golden to a 2 year deal. A rotation of Ximines, Carter, and Golden will get you plenty of edge rush. Lawrence is an absolute stud. He's the guy teams are going to fear.
My favorite free agents this offseason are Dennis Kelly, Markus Golden, and Willie Snead.
He’s in year 4 of a rookie contract. He’s had 8, 12, and 9.5 sacks in his first 3 years. Your first point is misleading.
Golden has mileage with a major injury knee injury. The other two guys will probably never be as productive as Yannick.
The Giants don’t need to dumpster dive in FA this year. They have plenty of space and the big re-signs are 4 years away.
By misleading, you mean correct?
By misleading I mean misleading. Again he’s in year 4 of a rookie deal. His production has been good anyway you try to spin it.
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this past offseason. He ended up settling for a 1 yr prove it deal. But his position at RT wasn't reserved for him. He was plugged in at LT where he struggled. He was replaced by Greg Little and Daryl moved to RG in place of Trai Turner due to injury. Once Trai returns, he may be without a position. He has stated that he is naturally right dominant. By all appearances, he is healthy but doesn't have a position. He should be able to be brought in on the cheap as his "prove it" deal hasn't really proved anything.
Interesting nugget, he sounds like he would be a great signing.
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There are two very good Edge rushers set to hit the market in Yannick Ngakoue and Shaq Barrett. Ngakoue makes so much sense for the Giants as he is only 24.
Yannick is going to be extremely expensive. Shaq Barrett is going to be cheaper due to age and 1 year of production, but I feel very comfortable about his game aging well. He uses power and leverage to set up his pass rush moves.
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In comment 14625729 Diver_Down said:
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this past offseason. He ended up settling for a 1 yr prove it deal. But his position at RT wasn't reserved for him. He was plugged in at LT where he struggled. He was replaced by Greg Little and Daryl moved to RG in place of Trai Turner due to injury. Once Trai returns, he may be without a position. He has stated that he is naturally right dominant. By all appearances, he is healthy but doesn't have a position. He should be able to be brought in on the cheap as his "prove it" deal hasn't really proved anything.
Interesting nugget, he sounds like he would be a great signing.
bringing in a guy who is on a “prove it” deal currently but not really proving it?
But he proved that he was a great RT. On his "prove it" deal, he wasn't afforded the opportunity to play the position that he is natural at. Fans and organizations make the mistake that a great player can play anywhere. Some players are great at a singular position and awful at others.
There were fans last year that wanted to play Hernandez at RG despite him never playing a snap at RG his entire life. They drew the conclusion that he is built like a RG and looks the part so he should be a natural. He doesn't offer versatility. He is a LG only. It is what we should want for our starters. Players that do their job well and not a Jack-of-all-trades. Pugh was our Jack, but a master at none. Depth on an OL is imperative that they are proficient at multiple spots, but give me a starter that does one job well.
I see he's played 100% of the snaps. TEN passed on the 5th year option because of the balloon-like rise in salary and he's been hurt in previous years, but he's a player the Giants reportedly coveted in the draft.
However, that should not minimize the importance of drafting at least one OT relatively high, and I'd argue for more than one on draft weekend, along with a decent C/OG prospect. In the past two years, the Giants have invested serious draft capital in RB and QB. It would be a huge mistake now not to make similar investments in the OL's who make life easier for both.
As for FS, I've seen a couple of mock drafts that have the Giants picking relatively early and drafting LSU's Grant Delpit. I don't have a problem with that. Still, I'd be all for the team trying to pry Justin Simmons away from Denver. I've always felt that the previous regime made a mistake passing on Simmons to draft Darian Thompson.
However, that should not minimize the importance of drafting at least one OT relatively high, and I'd argue for more than one on draft weekend, along with a decent C/OG prospect. In the past two years, the Giants have invested serious draft capital in RB and QB. It would be a huge mistake now not to make similar investments in the OL's who make life easier for both.
As for FS, I've seen a couple of mock drafts that have the Giants picking relatively early and drafting LSU's Grant Delpit. I don't have a problem with that. Still, I'd be all for the team trying to pry Justin Simmons away from Denver. I've always felt that the previous regime made a mistake passing on Simmons to draft Darian Thompson.
I also think the Giants should use at least two picks on offensive linemen. Since they have four picks in the first three rounds I hope they use two of them on OL. Preferably a OT and C. Then add another OT on day three.
Offensive Tackles
Great sets. Thanks.
Ha-ha looks like a decent target. Is he?
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Free Safeties
Offensive Tackles
Great sets. Thanks.
Ha-ha looks like a decent target. Is he?
I don't know what Chicago's cap situation is, or what their plans are heading into 2020, but if Ha-ha stays healthy this year (which he hasn't been able to do for the past couple of years), I figure the Bears will make every effort to re-sign him before he hits the open market. He's been a huge part of their defense so far this year and he's still pretty young.