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What are you looking to see the next 10 games?

Sean : 10/13/2019 10:00 am
The remaining schedule has games which should be winnable or at least competitive:

ARI
@DET
@NYJ
MIA
@WSH

Iíd still like to see them play hard & compete in the other games. If this team canít improve from 5-11 (even with Jones starting), thatís a massive disappointment in my opinion.

For me, itís all about Jones development in addition to seeing the other rookies continue to improve.

Personally, Iím ready to move on from Shurmur. I donít see him as anything more than an OC - whatís the point of wasting 2020? Iím 100% moving on if this team wins 4-5 games and is picking top 5.

By no means do I expect playoffs, but seeing this team playing hard & improving each week while going 7-9 would give me a lot of hope for 2020.
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young players development  
bluepepper : 10/13/2019 12:56 pm : link
Jones most of all. If we have a franchise QB then the future looks a helluva lot brighter than it did after 2018 no matter what else happens.

A step up from one of the edge guys whether Ximenes or Carter or Skipper.

Baker and/or Beal proving to be a legit starting corner.

Slayton - not expecting him to be a number one guy but a good #2 seems possible.

Lawrence continuing to look like a beast in the making.

W-L doesn't matter to me this year. Next year DG and Shurmur are on the clock and the W-L has to improve but okay with another 5 or 6 win season here if the young players look like the real deal.
RE: RE: Why does Shurmur deserve another year?  
D_Giants : 10/13/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14626545 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14626507 Go Terps said:


Quote:


What has he done to deserve it?



You have a point. I'm just trying to consider what's fair, especially since people outside of the Giants talk about if the Giants know what they're doing when they cycle through head coaches so quickly (e.g., not even two years for McAdoo and two years for Shurm if they fire him after 2019).



It puzzles me why folks are so concerned about Ďfair treatment of GMs and HCs, particularly given that these same GMs and HCs can be so unconcerned about what is fair for the players the toss so quickly.
Can we give Shurmur until the end of year?  
Eli Wilson : 10/13/2019 1:06 pm : link
Maybe he'll still not look great, but why bury him now?
Wins  
Mike in Boston : 10/13/2019 1:15 pm : link
Period.
Run to pass  
idiotsavant : 10/13/2019 1:31 pm : link
.
I would like to see the offensive players around DJ  
Jimmy Googs : 10/13/2019 1:31 pm : link
help him out more. And the secondary stay closer to their assignments and stop giving up gimmy big plays.

Scoring more points than we give up would be nice too...
RE: RE: Why does Shurmur deserve another year?  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 1:33 pm : link
In comment 14626545 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14626507 Go Terps said:


Quote:


What has he done to deserve it?



You have a point. I'm just trying to consider what's fair, especially since people outside of the Giants talk about if the Giants know what they're doing when they cycle through head coaches so quickly (e.g., not even two years for McAdoo and two years for Shurm if they fire him after 2019).


I'm all for consistency, but having a bad coach for a while is just a prescription for being a consistently bad team.

The Giants made the wrong hire. Keeping him around isn't going to make him the right hire.
If Jones is any good.  
Darth Paul : 10/13/2019 1:36 pm : link
Barkley and Jones together. Online opening at least one hole.
I just don't want head coaching candidated to be reluctant to take  
Optimus-NY : 10/13/2019 1:37 pm : link
this job. Being the HC of the NYG with a young and ascending franchise QB should be a position that is very desirable. This might sound funky, but you can let Shurmur bite the bullet while talent is accumulated through next year and then make your move for a bonafide HC when they see the team is more attractive to them at that point.
ONLY fire Shurmur at the end of this season IF you see that  
Optimus-NY : 10/13/2019 1:40 pm : link
there's a must-have guy you want coaching this team, otherwise give Shurmur until the end of 2020. At that point, it should be time to get rid of him.
If anything is going to scare off a potential hire,  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 1:48 pm : link
it's the archaic way in which the team is run.
I expect the same thing as at the beginning of the season...  
Torrag : 10/13/2019 1:51 pm : link
Improvement. The Giants may have been suffering under the delusion that starting players like haley, bethea, ellison and other JAGs with 'experience' could be good enough to compete and maybe steal into the playoffs on an easy schedule. They are wrong. It's time to take the long view and develop the young athletes on this roster. Ballantine, Love and Dickerson need to start. They have playmaking potential the incumbents at their positions simply lack.
Terps- great Idea  
Dave on the UWS : 10/13/2019 1:59 pm : link
start over next year with a new HC, new staff, just as we get enough talent to see if he can win. I agree he probably canít get them to the promised land, but teams that frequently change coaches NEVER win- and thatís a fact. Stability counts for something. Heís probably a mediocre coach- and thatís fine for now
RE: Terps- great Idea  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14626591 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
start over next year with a new HC, new staff, just as we get enough talent to see if he can win. I agree he probably canít get them to the promised land, but teams that frequently change coaches NEVER win- and thatís a fact. Stability counts for something. Heís probably a mediocre coach- and thatís fine for now


Well we certainly have been settling for mediocrity around here, so Shurmur fits right in.
Terps-  
Sean : 10/13/2019 2:17 pm : link
I know you stated you like McDaniels (Iím intrigued as well), he would require full control or a GM he has a working relationship with. I donít know if heíd come here with DG here.

Assuming DG is still here, are there any coaches who you think could share his philosophy in team building? Iíd prefer to not go with a first time HC considering McAdoo/Shurmur - need to get this right.

If we do go first time HC, I could see Dan Campbell or Matt Rhule.
RE: Terps-  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14626611 Sean said:
Quote:
I know you stated you like McDaniels (Iím intrigued as well), he would require full control or a GM he has a working relationship with. I donít know if heíd come here with DG here.

Assuming DG is still here, are there any coaches who you think could share his philosophy in team building? Iíd prefer to not go with a first time HC considering McAdoo/Shurmur - need to get this right.

If we do go first time HC, I could see Dan Campbell or Matt Rhule.


I'm fine going with a first time guy; my bigger concern is that we focus on a guy to "develop Jones".

I want a guy here that's going to establish a winning culture. I like what I'm reading about Bienemy in KC.
Still incorporating a lot of youth  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/13/2019 2:34 pm : link
this team will be better in the 2nd half of the season than the first no doubt.
RE: ONLY fire Shurmur at the end of this season IF you see that  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/13/2019 2:36 pm : link
In comment 14626579 Optimus-NY said:
Quote:
there's a must-have guy you want coaching this team, otherwise give Shurmur until the end of 2020. At that point, it should be time to get rid of him.

If any good candidate pops up, fire Shmurmur immediately and hire the other guy. No sentimintality, always improve.

I'm hoping Ten fires Vrabel, only so much he can do with Medicoreotta.
It's pretty clear we think Shurmur isn't the answer.  
Optimus-NY : 10/13/2019 2:43 pm : link
What is also clear is that this team is nowhere near ready to compete on a big-time level yet. Coach Red is right. Always improve, but it's ok if Shurm stays through 2020. He at least will be good for Jones's development and the page will have been fully turned on the previous regime---including Eli.
RE: RE: ONLY fire Shurmur at the end of this season IF you see that  
bw in dc : 10/13/2019 2:46 pm : link
In comment 14626631 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:


I'm hoping Ten fires Vrabel, only so much he can do with Medicoreotta.


I suggest you check into some of the game decisions Vrabel has made the last few weeks. No one is mixing him up with Don Shula.

These discussion are very interesting to me. I have never been a hire-Shurmur-guy, but if you look around the league there is poor game management decisions by some of the league's best, week in and week out. And to name a few - Pete Carroll, Miek Tomlin and Andy Reid.

I suggest more posters watch more games. Because we are not alone with a coach who struggles. It's becoming a league epidemic.
bw  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 2:48 pm : link
What other coaches are doing doesn't change the fact that Shurmur is incompetent.
RE: bw  
Optimus-NY : 10/13/2019 2:52 pm : link
In comment 14626641 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What other coaches are doing doesn't change the fact that Shurmur is incompetent.


Another fair point. We've got a good discussion going here. We should all pay closer attention to how other coaches screw the pooch today and in the coming weeks. Phil Simms was right when he said that more games are lost than won in this league.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 10/13/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14626641 Go Terps said:
Quote:
What other coaches are doing doesn't change the fact that Shurmur is incompetent.


Other coaches are making similar gaffes. They just have the luxury of having more talent.

I prefer to judge a guy when he's got a full hand to work with.

If the OL is in tact, we have our receivers (incl Evans) and Barkley is back, and we still struggle, then let's green light the change.
Lots of coaches make errors  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 3:01 pm : link
Andy Reid for example has always been poor in clock management. However he does a lot of very good things to help offset that.

Does Shurmur do anything well enough to offset his numerous obvious shortcomings?
Shurmur  
PaulN : 10/13/2019 3:16 pm : link
Is a horrible head coach, and if this stuck in first gear organization is too stupid not to see that nor know what to do then what real hope is there? He does not know how to even use Barkley, five win Shurmur. Get him the hell out of here fast. He already has Jones playing worse, he does not know how to game plan at all, he is real stupid, I know head coaches are pretty stupid, but this guy does not have any plan, it is all willy nilly without any concrete plan on how to attack a team. Any further time with him is a waste. But I feel he will stay due to a lack of any leadership in this organization.
It really is frightening how Sumur misuses SB  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/13/2019 3:26 pm : link
As a fan I notice it's much easier for a defender to tackle SB near the sidelines, and zero in with a hard hit. Meanwhile defenders are like headless chickens in the middle of the field. Of course Shemur constantly sends SB out to the flats like he's Tom Rathman to get his ankle mangled.
2 things immediately made my spider-sense tingle regaring Shurmur.  
Optimus-NY : 10/13/2019 3:44 pm : link
The first was when he didn't send Odell back to receive that punt (I forgot the exact game), but it was time for him to be back there in a close game in the closing moments and the other was when Barkley was KILLING the Green Slime in Philly and Shurmur stopped giving him the ball. I was livid, not necessarily because of the losses, but because of his decision making in those situations.
'he is real stupid, I know head coaches are pretty stupid'...  
Torrag : 10/13/2019 3:54 pm : link
LOL. That snippet was truly funny. Thanks, this team is a headache rigth now it's good to get some amusement out of the frustration.
I'd  
AcidTest : 10/13/2019 4:50 pm : link
like to see Love and Ballentine play, along with some of the backup OL. They can't be worse than what he have now. And even if they are, at least then we'll know they can't play.
RE: Lots of coaches make errors  
bw in dc : 10/13/2019 4:58 pm : link
In comment 14626651 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Andy Reid for example has always been poor in clock management. However he does a lot of very good things to help offset that.

Does Shurmur do anything well enough to offset his numerous obvious shortcomings?


I think his idea of an offense that fits today's game very well. And now that he has a versatile talent like Jones, there could be some greener pastures if the team gets healthier.

Let's not forget, Shurmur has an appealing resume working with QBs - like Foles and Keenum.
Wins  
WillVAB : 10/13/2019 5:08 pm : link
This division is wide open. Shurmur needs to nut up and win games. The whole transition thing is only an excuse if youíre in a tough division. Dallas is vulnerable. Philly canít defend the pass. Washington sucks. If he canít win the Giants need to find a HC who can.
RE: Wins  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/13/2019 5:39 pm : link
In comment 14626767 WillVAB said:
Quote:
This division is wide open. Shurmur needs to nut up and win games. The whole transition thing is only an excuse if youíre in a tough division. Dallas is vulnerable. Philly canít defend the pass. Washington sucks. If he canít win the Giants need to find a HC who can.


This. Barkley is back next week and division is wide open. Defense looks competent and DJ finally gets SB in a game that isn't against the best rushing D in the league. Yes the Bucs have the best rushing D in league, Vea and Suh are impossible to run against.
RE: Wins  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 6:01 pm : link
In comment 14626767 WillVAB said:
Quote:
This division is wide open. Shurmur needs to nut up and win games. The whole transition thing is only an excuse if youíre in a tough division. Dallas is vulnerable. Philly canít defend the pass. Washington sucks. If he canít win the Giants need to find a HC who can.


Agreed. Not too late to have a season. Find someone that can call a timeout properly and we've already improved our outlook.
RE: Wins  
Sean : 10/13/2019 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14626767 WillVAB said:
Quote:
This division is wide open. Shurmur needs to nut up and win games. The whole transition thing is only an excuse if youíre in a tough division. Dallas is vulnerable. Philly canít defend the pass. Washington sucks. If he canít win the Giants need to find a HC who can.


Fantastic post. Iím so tired of the excuses with this team. Win.
What I want to see  
Mark from Jersey : 10/13/2019 6:30 pm : link
Don't give up

Play hard.

Forget your mistakes and kick ass next possession.

Younger players getting a chance vs. older veterans that will be cap casualties next season.
And I will add  
Mark from Jersey : 10/13/2019 6:30 pm : link
Seeing the coaching staff playing to win vs. playing to lose.
So tired of ďI want to see improvementĒ  
WillVAB : 10/13/2019 6:41 pm : link
I want to see them win the division. Itís there for the taking. The Giants have four division games left plus winnable games against AZ, MIA, DET, and NYJ. Thatís 10 wins. Go take them and stop making excuses.
Just run and use run to set up the pass on O  
idiotsavant : 10/13/2019 7:14 pm : link
.
RE: It really is frightening how Sumur misuses SB  
gmenatlarge : 10/13/2019 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14626661 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
As a fan I notice it's much easier for a defender to tackle SB near the sidelines, and zero in with a hard hit. Meanwhile defenders are like headless chickens in the middle of the field. Of course Shemur constantly sends SB out to the flats like he's Tom Rathman to get his ankle mangled.


So now weíre blaming Shurmur for SB getting hurt, I donít like Shurmur but that is just ridiculous.
RE: So tired of ďI want to see improvementĒ  
Go Terps : 10/13/2019 8:36 pm : link
In comment 14626933 WillVAB said:
Quote:
I want to see them win the division. Itís there for the taking. The Giants have four division games left plus winnable games against AZ, MIA, DET, and NYJ. Thatís 10 wins. Go take them and stop making excuses.


Yup. You brought back Eli under the pretense of winning games in 2019. Now go win games.
RE: RE: It really is frightening how Sumur misuses SB  
bw in dc : 10/13/2019 9:46 pm : link
In comment 14627187 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14626661 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


As a fan I notice it's much easier for a defender to tackle SB near the sidelines, and zero in with a hard hit. Meanwhile defenders are like headless chickens in the middle of the field. Of course Shemur constantly sends SB out to the flats like he's Tom Rathman to get his ankle mangled.



So now weíre blaming Shurmur for SB getting hurt, I donít like Shurmur but that is just ridiculous.


It is. And it's intellectually dishonest.

Gettleman stocked the team with the revamped OL this year. And SB has essentially played a game and a half behind it. Last year, I'm not sure what Shurmur/SB was suppose to do with the blocking dummies courtesy of Gettleman.

Here's a better way to criticize Shurmur - the hiring of Hal Hunter.
Wins in the division.  
St. Jimmy : 10/13/2019 9:49 pm : link
It is weak. Show something has changed.
RE: So tired of ďI want to see improvementĒ  
Leg of Theismann : 10/13/2019 10:28 pm : link
In comment 14626933 WillVAB said:
Quote:
I want to see them win the division. Itís there for the taking. The Giants have four division games left plus winnable games against AZ, MIA, DET, and NYJ. Thatís 10 wins. Go take them and stop making excuses.


Did you happen to catch the game week 1 in Dallas? This division sure isn't all that good but NYG got their asses handed to them by the Cowboys. I know we'll have Jones in game 2 but expecting them to go 4-0 in their remaining division games (including sweeping the Eagles who swept NYG in 2018) is asking quite a bit from a team that's has a record of 10-28 since 2017. No excuses are being made, the team just isn't all that good. Dallas and Philly aren't great relative to the rest of the NFL but they're certainly better than the Giants from a talent perspective.
Leg...  
bw in dc : 10/13/2019 10:36 pm : link
A shift seems to be occurring at BBI. Suddenly, it's not a talent problem. The "Talent Fairy" has arrived over night to stock our shelves with all these wonderful players. Now it's a coaching issue. And our coaches aren't able to assemble all of this great talent to get these great results. Meanwhile, the health of the players is conveniently overlooked...

I'm not sure which games these posters are watching, especially on the defensive side of the ball or the talent on other teams, but I may have to start re-watching our games even more closely. I seem to be missing all of these tremendous difference makers on defense...
RE: RE: So tired of ďI want to see improvementĒ  
WillVAB : 10/13/2019 10:55 pm : link
In comment 14627464 Leg of Theismann said:
Quote:
In comment 14626933 WillVAB said:


Quote:


I want to see them win the division. Itís there for the taking. The Giants have four division games left plus winnable games against AZ, MIA, DET, and NYJ. Thatís 10 wins. Go take them and stop making excuses.



Did you happen to catch the game week 1 in Dallas? This division sure isn't all that good but NYG got their asses handed to them by the Cowboys. I know we'll have Jones in game 2 but expecting them to go 4-0 in their remaining division games (including sweeping the Eagles who swept NYG in 2018) is asking quite a bit from a team that's has a record of 10-28 since 2017. No excuses are being made, the team just isn't all that good. Dallas and Philly aren't great relative to the rest of the NFL but they're certainly better than the Giants from a talent perspective.


If the Jets have enough talent to beat Dallas the Giants surely do.

Philly is literally getting torched every week by opposing WRs outside of last week when they faced a QB whoís no longer in the NFL.

The Giants arenít in the NFCW or AFCE. Theyíre one game out vs some very flawed teams. This division may be as bad as the AFCN.

The Giants arenít a talent laden roster but theyíre talented enough to win this division this year if the coaching staff starts earning their paychecks.
RE: Primarily two things. The main thing is that I'd like to see the  
Optimus-NY : 10/18/2019 1:07 am : link
In comment 14626411 Ira said:
Quote:
young players continue to improve. Next, I'd like to see them learn to play well together - to know each others game and how to help one another and feed off one another.

Also, I'd like to see some of the young players who haven't received much playing time on the field more. I'd like to see Love, Ballentine and Mayo get more experience. I shouldn't forget Sam Beal.


Good post.
get  
uther99 : 10/18/2019 12:08 pm : link
Barkley 20 carries and 5 passes, at least, per game
I guess I'm the only one who is ok with Shurmur?  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/18/2019 12:17 pm : link
Definitely willing to see this season play out, I agree, it's not just to develop Jones, it's to deliver wins.

Out of multiple scenarios, one is the team gets healthy and Shurmur goes on a run to close the season and contend for a playoff spot. That's what I'd like to see, if he does that I think he deserves another year.
To the eye  
LG in NYC : 10/18/2019 12:23 pm : link
I'd like to see DJ and the Defense look like they are improving over the course of the next 10 games.

I didn't expect to be in the running for the division, but as bad as Dallas and Philly have looked, and us being 1 back, we absolutely should expect this team to take a legit run at winning the division.

we may not be uber-talented but we have enough that we should make the division interesting as long as our guys generally stay healthy the rest of the way... if Shurmur & Co cannot do that (i.e., if we just stumble along to 5-6 wins) then I think we can safely say we have the wrong leadership.

so in short... be competitive, win some games and let's start looking like an NFL team week in and week out.
I'd like  
cjac : 10/18/2019 12:40 pm : link
to beat Dallas and the Eagles at home.

that would make me happy.

i'm sick of losing to both of them all the time.
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