I have to say I was late to the party. For me, when I watched the draft where the Giants took Engram instead of Ramzyk or Cam Robinson. I remember thinking he was a goner unless he pulled a rabbit out of the hat which he didn’t and all we drafted to play OL was Biz who sucked. Admittedly, the Giants needed a TE but there were good TEs who would have been available as late as the 5th round. Our OL was as close to pathetic as there could be and we draft a TE who could not block. That was it for me.
When did you want Reese fired?
Reese's philosophy of building from the outside in instead of inside out was going to fail miserably for two obvious reasons. One is that football is a game that is played in a confined area during a finite amount of time, so power is very important. There is no better example of this than trouble scoring TDs in the red zone, something that has bedeviled the GIANTS for many seasons now.
More specifically, the OL was clearly running on fumes and there was no serious effort to replace the players who were obviously done. They were trying to upgrade it with lower round draft choices and free agents. And although you can find players this way, you can't totally rely on it, plus the GIANTS were not having much luck at it at that time either.
This was combined with his employment for five years already of Marc Ross as his key draft assistant. Ross had flopped in personnel jobs with both Buffalo and Philly, both miserable teams when he was with them. And there were quiet rumors that Ross was lazy, too, something that you cannot afford to be in that kind of a job.
There was also an undertow of feeling that Reese / Ross were not necessarily drafting the right guys in terms of scheme fit (Sintim and Beckum for instance), a trend that continued.
And then there was the Safety disaster in 2009 when despite clear warnings from coaches, Reese failed to draft or otherwise acquire any Safety help while completely wasting the last three picks that season on a QB and two corners who never made the team. If you remember, they were signing anybody they could find off the street to play Safety that season.
And speaking of wasting picks, Reese / Ross had already wasted two third day picks on QBs (Woodson and Bomar), something that I am greatly opposed to because the chances of hitting on a 3rd day QB pick are about like the chances of hitting the Irish Sweepstakes. That's not to mention that they already had Eli in his prime. They had many more important needs but these bums were fishing where there isn't much chance of catching anything good.
So in summary, by 2012 it was obvious to me that Reese's philosophy of team building was flawed, that he had made a terrible selection for his most important personnel man, that he was wasting precious draft picks, and that he was not necessarily on the same page as the coaches and was ignoring serious team needs.
This all added up to one thing - Reese (and Ross) needed to go. It was five more years and another coach before Mara figured it out and took the action that he should have taken at the end of the 2012 season.
the giants won a superbowl with david baas at center. sure, he couldn't stay healthy after that, but of all the things to shit on reese about, i don't think this is it. he also signed canty and boley that year.
Reese's philosophy of building from the outside in instead of inside out was going to fail miserably for two obvious reasons. One is that football is a game that is played in a confined area during a finite amount of time, so power is very important. There is no better example of this than trouble scoring TDs in the red zone, something that has bedeviled the GIANTS for many seasons now.
More specifically, the OL was clearly running on fumes and there was no serious effort to replace the players who were obviously done. They were trying to upgrade it with lower round draft choices and free agents. And although you can find players this way, you can't totally rely on it, plus the GIANTS were not having much luck at it at that time either.
This was combined with his employment for five years already of Marc Ross as his key draft assistant. Ross had flopped in personnel jobs with both Buffalo and Philly, both miserable teams when he was with them. And there were quiet rumors that Ross was lazy, too, something that you cannot afford to be in that kind of a job.
There was also an undertow of feeling that Reese / Ross were not necessarily drafting the right guys in terms of scheme fit (Sintim and Beckum for instance), a trend that continued.
And then there was the Safety disaster in 2009 when despite clear warnings from coaches, Reese failed to draft or otherwise acquire any Safety help while completely wasting the last three picks that season on a QB and two corners who never made the team. If you remember, they were signing anybody they could find off the street to play Safety that season.
And speaking of wasting picks, Reese / Ross had already wasted two third day picks on QBs (Woodson and Bomar), something that I am greatly opposed to because the chances of hitting on a 3rd day QB pick are about like the chances of hitting the Irish Sweepstakes. That's not to mention that they already had Eli in his prime. They had many more important needs but these bums were fishing where there isn't much chance of catching anything good.
So in summary, by 2012 it was obvious to me that Reese's philosophy of team building was flawed, that he had made a terrible selection for his most important personnel man, that he was wasting precious draft picks, and that he was not necessarily on the same page as the coaches and was ignoring serious team needs.
This all added up to one thing - Reese (and Ross) needed to go. It was five more years and another coach before Mara figured it out and took the action that he should have taken at the end of the 2012 season.
Memory dims, but I had had it with Reece and TC by 2013. Loathed what was happening to the team,. Wanted Mara to sell it to someone who knew something about football, as I recall. Still do.
I thought four things really hurt him.
1. He became too arrogant and defensive.
2. He fell in love with the Arcosi model of OL....just draft a LT high and fill in the rest.
3. I think he along with TC help on the championship corps too long particularly on the OL.
4. Marc Ross. That guy seemed to change how JR thought about the game and drafting.
He did have a lot of bad breaks with career altering injuries. The issue was if you stay strong on the lines you can at least be competitive and who knows what happens in the playoffs.
This
Quote:
If that were the case, wouldn't it be when Coughlin let Hufnagel and Tim Lewis go?
Both of those guys were gone before the Giants started winning Super Bowls. On what merit should they have been kept in place?
Well, you said this:
That 'winning Super Bowls' didn't start until after Coughlin had to give up both his original OC and DC.
Now - not sure whether to his credit or detriment - but Coughlin wanted Gregg Williams as DC, Tim Lewis was a runner up.
Coughlin didn't exactly generate some killer coaching tree either, and as HC with two rings had plenty of say in personnel decisions. There's no way the Giants "scapegoat" TC by firing him and retain Reese if TC was just a willing bystander to all the personnel failures.
They worked together, and it worked OK at first, worked really well for awhile, and then fell apart. Reese should have gone when Coughlin did, but there's no way they didn't both earn their dismissal.