I am fully drinking the Kool-Aid.
Gettleman's first two drafts have been very strong. While his free agency signings have not been nearly as meritorious, he has been dealing with a tiny budget and a roster with more holes than substance.
In 2018 he added multiple immediate contributors in Barkley (all-world talent), Hernandez (the best OL we have drafted in recent memory), Carter, Hill and McIntosh. All of these guys are getting significant playing time and, I would argue, out-playing their draft positions.
2019 was even better so far. After trading OBJ (which I maintain was addition by subtraction) for Peppers (immediate significant contributor) and 1st and 3rd round picks, he added Jones (future of the franchise at QB), Lawrence (immediate stud DT), Baker (coming on strong at CB after a rough start), Ximines (immediately productive contributor at EDGE), Connelly (was looking like the best inside LB we have had in the last few years before injury), and Darius Slayton (immediate significant contributor at WR).
He signed Markus Golden, who has turned out to be an incredible value signing at EDGE. He also traded Vernon (expensive injury prone underachiever) for Kevin Zeitler (one of the best OGs in the league). That's an outstanding value in return for a guy who frankly was not worth his contract.
That is a dramatic improvement in the overall talent level of this roster in two years, all while clearing a fuckton of cap space for 2020 and beyond.
If this team has another draft class in 2020 of similar quality to the classes of 2018 and 2019, and makes good use of the enormous amount of cap space it will have in 2020, the Giants can absolutely compete at a high level next year and for the next few years thereafter. The pieces are coming together.
The arrow is clearly pointing up for the first time since Accorsi retired. I am all in for Gettleman.
What say you?
Shurmur was a questionable hire but that’s at least partially an owner decision, not just DG.
Bringing Eli back made very little sense from a cap standpoint, but at least that’s a short term mistake with some upside of Eli mentoring DJ.
Saquon is polarizing. He is a special talent but it’s the most fungible position in the sport, any number of players can come in and give you good solid production at running back. Not all-world production, but you don’t really need that. I like Saquon and he’s a great talent but it’s more of a question of resource allocation. If Darnold becomes a great player and Jones is average or worse it’s a catastrophic mistake. Jury is out.
Encouraging stuff from Lawrence, Hernandez, Ximines so far. The Beckham trade looks decent at the moment. The additions in the secondary are critical but too early to call it.
His free agent signings have been a mixed bag at best. We are paying Solder a ton of money for at best for average tackle play. When Barkley went down there was no attempt to put anyone behind Gallman to help out the rookie QB and Hilliman was a disaster. The jury is still out on whether Peppers was really a great get from the OBJ trade. Not sure why Bethea is here. Golden seems to have been a good signing so far.
I am much less sold on Shurmur. I get the sense he is just hanging on by his nails until things get bad enough to let him go. He doesn't feel like a long term solution.
But in his moves aimed at building long term value and talent, I think he has been spot on.
Ultimately DG will be judged on his HC hire and the QB he drafted. I'm worried about the first choice and optimistic about the second.
Next season they get out from under the shadow of the Reese debacle in terms of players they ditched and the cap ramifications of that. They'll have money to spend to augment the roster talent. Year 3 for DG's program will inform us all on how well he's been doing.
But yes I am believer that DG is better than the last General Manager the team had.
Whether I am believer he is a guy that can bring the NYG all the way back...just doesn't feel right to say yes.
4 Assists
1 Sack
Through 6 games
Base Salary for 2019: $15.25 Million
Had he stayed here, cap number would have been $19.25 Million. Glad he was traded
the team overall looks like we can be competitive in another 2 years.
Shortcomings: signing free agents; head coach selection.
So I think the team is headed in the right direction, but I think reaching Super Bowl caliber is questionable; because I'm not sure this is the head coach who can get the team to the promised land.
I don't think this is the coaching staff to lead us to contender level. That's a big decision on tap, and I hope if DG believes the same that he's decisive in making changes.
Not just viable alternatives, but guys we could actually sign. Remember, free agency is a two way street. Players must also WANT to sign here not only for the money but also for what this team has to offer.
When DG took this team over, I would be willing to bet that not many free agents wanted to play here. This franchise has been a disaster. Ever wonder why Whitworth did not sign here? We rarely know about the players any GM tried to sign but is unsuccessful...or why it did not work out.
I am fine with writing this year off as rebuilding but next year is year 3. If we don't start seeing W's on the board then no matter what BBI thinks of his drafts he should be on thin ice.
On the negative side the defense is still a work in progress along with the entire coaching staff. His FA moves have been mixed, but that's true of every team (including the Pats).
He has assembled most of the foundation that will determine his future already (Jones, Barkley, Dex, secondary) but his evaluations of the coaching staff and moves in offseason #3 will be just as pivotal. No excuses to not be a 9+ win team next year.
I think Jones Mania has deluded everyone into acknowledging or forgetting, this team has not won a lot of games this year just like last year. Has DJ proved he can play well against top defenses at this stage if ever? Is signing Tate for 20 mil supposed to make up for trading Odell for Peppers? Your rebuilding OK, send Eli home in the off season and retain some of your talent on D. He is obviously throwing a bunch of s--t against the wall and seeing if it sticks. He acquired a few good guys on D but come on - -this guy is ridiculous.
Drafting - picking 2nd and 6th overall certainly helped, but the depth of his drafts have been outstanding.
Owns mistakes - doesn't compound mistakes by giving guys numerous chances. For example, took a chance on Omameh and yet didn't hesitate to cut him halfway thru the season when it was clear he wasn't the answer (or even a stopgap).
Internal evaluations - you can argue he erred in extending Beckham to start, but it's understandable for a GM/HC to want to evaluate things from the inside when a talent is that good. I think they made the correct decision after 1 year to then trade him and got good value in return. Also, whether you like Peppers or not, letting Collins walk for $16M per was indisputably the correct decision. I'd put the Apple and Snacks trades as pluses in this column too.
Negatives
Free agency - hasn't had a ton of cap space and was all but forced to overpay for Solder due to the state of the OL, but outside of Golden, most of his low/mid level FAs have been disappointing (Stewart, Bethea, Martin, Omameh, etc).
As others have said, he needs another draft with 3+ starters and a strong free agency, which could be staying away from overpays (e.g. Solder, Vernon, etc) as much as anything.
I am fine with writing this year off as rebuilding but next year is year 3. If we don't start seeing W's on the board then no matter what BBI thinks of his drafts he should be on thin ice.
I think Hill's proven to be a solid starting DE in a 34 and Carter's shown enough to be valuable OLB depth at worse and a starting caliber OLB with upside at best.
The oddity is that he was probably a little better in Carolina at getting value from FA's and his drafts were OK. He's been pretty poor at FA here.
I don't think this is the coaching staff to lead us to contender level. That's a big decision on tap, and I hope if DG believes the same that he's decisive in making changes.
I agree. I've rewatched two games, the Cowboys game and the Pats game. The Cowboys game was tough to tell because Eli just refuses to pull the trigger down the field at this point. However, there was a lot not to like schematically in the Pats game. I don't have all the information, but some basic scheme shit that was leaving me scratching me head and I'm not talking about getting outschemed by BB. I'll give him a pass for not having an NFL RB for now. Add to that his questionable game management, he leaves me with a whole bunch of questions and I'm leaning further and further to cutting bait.
One good thing about DG is we know he isn't sentimental. PS is starting to feel like a hire that was brought in to set the ship straight aka bringing an adult into the room. Unless the Eagles finagle a trade for Ramsey there is no reason we shouldn't be in the hunt for the East crown in December with two games against the Eagles in the last five weeks. The Eagles have gotten old and Dallas looks like a rudderless ship right now. I'd give him a pass if we don't win because of the dead cap this year, but there really is no reason we shouldn't be talking about winning the East in December.
But in his moves aimed at building long term value and talent, I think he has been spot on.
I agree with the good drafts and so-so FA signings. I wonder, does anyone know if Connelly is due back this year? It would be a shame if he's out until next year.
Also apart from Saquon, Jones and Lawrence, I’m not ready to proclaim the last two drafts as “great.” I don’t think using 6 picks on 4 DBs this last draft was a smart use of resources when the team has so many holes at other positions.
Obviously Bethea was a 2019 mistake but I think he did okay with the trades and the other FA pickups. Remmers was a stopgap and only on BBI was Remmers looked at as a key acquisition.
I give him one more crack at free agency.
What still concerns me is how reluctant Gettleman seemed to even admit that a rebuild was necessary. Maybe that was merely a media/PR strategy. But it does make me wonder how accurately he can assess the state of the team at any given moment.
For example, the way he and Shurmur celebrated the end of last season was concerning.
The oddity is that he was probably a little better in Carolina at getting value from FA's and his drafts were OK. He's been pretty poor at FA here.
I'm just speculating but it is quite possible that since than he realizes more of his attention needs to be given to the draft than FA now. Remember he was a pro personal guy for a long time. DG seems like a guy that learns from his mistakes and isn't afraid to say he made them, at least privately and through his actions.
I agree with the good drafts and so-so FA signings. I wonder, does anyone know if Connelly is due back this year? It would be a shame if he's out until next year.
He ruptures his ACL. Definitely out for the year. Already placed on IR.
I don't think this is the coaching staff to lead us to contender level. That's a big decision on tap, and I hope if DG believes the same that he's decisive in making changes.
On that note, my dad and I were discussing Robert Saleh (9'ers D coordinator) last night and whether he'll be a head coaching candidate as early as 2020. He's an incredibly enthusiastic young coordinator with a really interesting background. We may be incorrect, but we both figured he's the kind of candidate Gettleman will never touch.
But in his moves aimed at building long term value and talent, I think he has been spot on.
I agree with his drafts being very solid but the free agency is so/so but I also think some of the signings, trades, cuts and all his other moves were geared towards character guys he wanted to get the locker room back to a team first mentality. Let's Go New York Football Giants
Philosophically, he did no evaluating of who to keep and who to get rid of. The result has been he is trying to fill spots where he already possibly had players. Gettlemen has created more holes than he has filled. One would think that he would use constant churning of the roster as a way to find some wheat but then he goes and signs guys like Stupar and Benny Fowler who are obvious chaff.
Let's challenge some assumptions. Is Zeitler one of the top guards in the League? He's injured now and is not playing great. Hernandez has struggled this year. Remmers is, predictably, not a very good tackle. Solder has struggled. Halapio has, also predictably, stunk. Barkley covers a lot of sins for that o-line.
Also, our linebackers blow (and we are trying to run a 3-4), the receiving corp is to be kind, sub par, the DB's are horrible and the safeties suck. There are still a lot of holes, some of them self-created.
He's an average-below average GM although compared to Reese, he's George Young. He has found some guys like Slayton and Hernandez who might be players. Jones might be a player- we'll see how he responds over the next few weeks now that Lil Bill has established the formula to defend him. Lawrence might be too although the Pats running qb sneaks over him 7 times might be a warning sign on some limitations.
A lot of you are making the mistake of fans of bad teams- seeing "potential" in average joe players for sticking out on a limited roster and seeing "hustle" or "activity" as a substitute for ability. Golden is an example. He's got a few sacks but makes few other plays, can't defend the pass and gets run over against the run. There's a reason the talent-starved Cardinals gave up on him.
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at minimizing cap allocation for players he can move away from and he's been very good at drafting.
The oddity is that he was probably a little better in Carolina at getting value from FA's and his drafts were OK. He's been pretty poor at FA here.
I'm just speculating but it is quite possible that since than he realizes more of his attention needs to be given to the draft than FA now. Remember he was a pro personal guy for a long time. DG seems like a guy that learns from his mistakes and isn't afraid to say he made them, at least privately and through his actions.
I actually agree with this last part, about making mistakes and not being afraid to move on from them quickly. I feel like Reese was opposite in nature. I can’t imagine Reese signing a guy like Omameh and cutting him in season.
Well, the Giants were coming of an 11-5 season prior to Whitworth's free agency while the Rams had been 4-12, so I doubt it had anything to do with team reputation or success.
I will give Shurmur this year to show me I can trust him, but so far, based on the 1.5 years we’ve seen, I’m not wowed by this choice. I see flaws that concern me. I hope they go away.
The oddity is that he was probably a little better in Carolina at getting value from FA's and his drafts were OK. He's been pretty poor at FA here.
We will see on his drafts. Lets not make the Reese-Odell mistake with Gettlemen-Barkley. So far, these "very good" drafts have not translated into much on the field beyond keeping fans amused.
The oddity is that he was probably a little better in Carolina at getting value from FA's and his drafts were OK. He's been pretty poor at FA here.
One could argue he played a big part in the Giants SB runs by helping acquire talented, undervalued FAs. He was pro personnel director when they brought in:
McKenzie
Pierce
Plaxico
O'Hara
Hixon
Rolle
Boley
Canty
Robbins
Mitchell
Madison
etc
This reads as if it hasn't improved at all. Not surprisingly, the most pessimistic take is floated.