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NFT: ALCS | Astros @ Yankees - GM3

RasputinPrime : 10/15/2019 2:04 pm


George Springer (R) RF
Michael Brantley (L) LF
Josť Altuve (R) 2B
Alex Bregman (R) 3B
Yordan Alvarez (L) DH
Yuli Gurriel (R) 1B
Carlos Correa (R) SS
Robinson Chirinos (R) CA
Jake Marisnick (R) CF
Gerrit Cole (R) PI

@

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It's amazing that reading..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 8:19 am : link
this thread one gets the impression that Cashman was too cheap to build a contender and Boone can't put together a lineup.

The likely Manager of the Year sucks ass!!

And with a straight face, you have a fuckhead calling for Romine!
RE: Ooof,  
Kyle in NY : 10/16/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14630444 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
everytime a person says we're still in it in recent years, they wind up being wrong.


You are as flaky as it gets, going whichever way the wind blows. Not surprised to see you jumping ship already. Hey maybe you'll be right, but I know for a fact if we come back in this series you'll be right back here acting like this capitulation of yours never happened.
RE: It's amazing that reading..  
Essex : 10/16/2019 9:46 am : link
In comment 14630524 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
this thread one gets the impression that Cashman was too cheap to build a contender and Boone can't put together a lineup.

The likely Manager of the Year sucks ass!!

And with a straight face, you have a fuckhead calling for Romine!

just because he is manager of the year (if he will be) doesn't mean he has managed well this series. In fact, what I can't take about these threads are that because a manager can justify his move, that means it was the right move. Again, I go back to the Green/Springer matchup that, of course, can be justified by the analytics, but it was the manager who has to make that calculus at that time. It is a bad matchup, but Green is dealing. Ottavino has been shaky really since September, do I want to face that kind of hitter with an unknown Ottavino, in the sense you don't know if he has his good stuff or not, or do I want to face him with a dealing Green. Simply because Boone was justified doesn't mean he was right. In addition, I don't know the analytics on putting Gardner third and maybe that was acceptable in the Twins series, but he has already shown in this series that he is not a person who should be batting third. Again, maybe their is some analytical stat to justify it, but a manager needs to see beyond stats and make the right call. Boone has not. And, for the people saying, oh well he gave the ball to Ottavino and Ottavino did not get the job done, that is true, but Ottavino has showed nothing in this post-season that would lead anyone to believe he could get the job done. So, just because he managed great for 162 games does not mean he is immune from criticism for what happened in the last two games.

Once when the Yankees lineup was struggling, Billy Martin picked his batting order out of hat to change things up. I am not saying I am advocating for that in any way, but what I am saying is that it is ok for managers to manage based on a feel for what is going on. In that area, Boone has not been good in this series.
FMiC  
Kyle in NY : 10/16/2019 9:48 am : link
we're not too cheap, but the lineup was overthought. It's really just one decision, Torres hitting 5th. And it's entirely possible it doesn't make a difference in the game. But it was a mistake and it didn't give us the best possible chance to put up runs.
The..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 9:54 am : link
"right move" is almost always determined on here by if the right result was generated. In one series, the microscope on moves is even stronger and the reactions to losses more ridiculous as the sample size is really small

The Yanks had numerous chances to drive in runners against Verlander, Cole and the Astros pen and they failed. Boone's lineup was good enough to get runners in position to score, but then they were stranded. I really don't know how that speaks to who should be where in the lineup and if his decisions are sound or not.

Ottovino gave up a HR to a batter he had been dominant against in a small sample size and Green would have been going on his 3rd inning or work. Flip the situation with Green giving up a HR and the same people blasting Boone for pulling Green would be blasting him for leaving him in.

Thus, the folly of calling moves "right" or not.

And you want knee-jerk reactions? You have posters who said it was ridiculous to put Stanton in the lineup who bitched and moaned that he was hurt and out of the lineup.

Consistency among morons is rarely achieved.
You're not wrong  
Kyle in NY : 10/16/2019 10:02 am : link
in saying that it's pretty much always outcome-oriented around here with the reactions. But I don't think this is a second guess or simply a reaction to how the game played out.

Torres has been our best hitter this postseason and had been hitting 3rd the last two games. Moving him out of that spot to split up right handed hitters was overthinking things. I'm not really sure I understand the need to appeal to authority here. Boone can be an excellent manager, but also have made a mistake.

Again it's possible that it doesn't make a difference in the game. But the effects of it were felt right away in the first inning.
.....  
BleedBlue : 10/16/2019 10:03 am : link
Gardner shouldn't be batting third.defending Boone on this is silly. the dude just isn't a 3 hitter. Torres should be there. Gardner Sanchez EE and Didi have had horrible ABs this series.

Does a rain out def give us Cole game 7?

If so that will be tough in Houston

I think next two are must wins before we get back to Houston and then we can steal one there. Damn game 2 is looming large as a missed opp
Gleyber's spot in the batting order  
bceagle05 : 10/16/2019 10:08 am : link
has been irritating all season. David Cone constantly brings it up throughout the year. Fifth? Sixth? Ninth? What reason could there possibly be to bury your best hitter down in the lineup? DJ/Judge/Torres in the first inning should be written in stone at this point.
RE: The..  
Essex : 10/16/2019 10:08 am : link
In comment 14630629 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
"right move" is almost always determined on here by if the right result was generated. In one series, the microscope on moves is even stronger and the reactions to losses more ridiculous as the sample size is really small

The Yanks had numerous chances to drive in runners against Verlander, Cole and the Astros pen and they failed. Boone's lineup was good enough to get runners in position to score, but then they were stranded. I really don't know how that speaks to who should be where in the lineup and if his decisions are sound or not.

Ottovino gave up a HR to a batter he had been dominant against in a small sample size and Green would have been going on his 3rd inning or work. Flip the situation with Green giving up a HR and the same people blasting Boone for pulling Green would be blasting him for leaving him in.

Thus, the folly of calling moves "right" or not.

And you want knee-jerk reactions? You have posters who said it was ridiculous to put Stanton in the lineup who bitched and moaned that he was hurt and out of the lineup.

Consistency among morons is rarely achieved.

where I would agree is that the right result does not mean it was the right move. However, what I don't agree is that the manager's move was the right move at the time. I would agree it was defensible, but not sure that it was the correct decision regardless of result. The result just makes it worse. It is the same when Girardi hooked Robertson in the 09 ALCS against the Angels, it was defensible, but Robertson was dealing and it did not show a good feel for the game. As to Gardener third, again, I don't know the analytics behind it but I will assume that they are there, but who you put in your three hole matters. I just don't get that move, especially they way Gardner has been playing. And, last night, it had a real practical effect in that they were able to avoid Gleyber in the first inning by giving him the open base.
RE: RE: Ooof,  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/16/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14630618 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 14630444 Dave in Hoboken said:


Quote:


everytime a person says we're still in it in recent years, they wind up being wrong.



You are as flaky as it gets, going whichever way the wind blows. Not surprised to see you jumping ship already. Hey maybe you'll be right, but I know for a fact if we come back in this series you'll be right back here acting like this capitulation of yours never happened.


Flaky, huh? Or, I just respond to what's going on in the series. Yes, I (like everyone) was happy when we were up 1-0. And now, I, like pretty much everyone, isn't as confident now that we're down 2-1.

Crazy stuff. I know.
RE: Gleyber's spot in the batting order  
BleedBlue : 10/16/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14630656 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
has been irritating all season. David Cone constantly brings it up throughout the year. Fifth? Sixth? Ninth? What reason could there possibly be to bury your best hitter down in the lineup? DJ/Judge/Torres in the first inning should be written in stone at this point.



Yea it's ridiculous. There is no defense of Boone here. Fuck analytics. Torres should be batting third. That first inning could have been different and getting runs off Cole early would have changed entire game. Stadium would have been jumping and he would have felt a little more pressure. Feel for the game is something I think Boone struggles with.
Sure..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 10:27 am : link
no defense of Boone.

He's clearly the reason we lost.....

Jesus.
I never understood this so i'll ask  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2019 10:30 am : link
how does a fan get to judge a manager about not having a good feel for a game? Disagree with the move, but stating that you disagree because your "feel" is right and the guy manager is wrong is absolutely bonkers to me.

The analytics era has really made for some lousy arguments, IMO. Analytics are treated like this evil data set that removes all emotion from the game. From my point of view, Boone uses analytics to framework a game/series and then will make in game decisions using them as a guideline. Just as much "feel" goes into implementing that data as it does ignoring it, IMO.

These discussions usually end up in the following:

"Boone took out X because the analytics said so and the result backfired because he didn't have a feel for the game." or

"Boone rode the hot hand, ignoring the analytics, he was really in tune with what was going on today".

Just weird. I think Boone is as dialed in as any manager in the sport. I don't think any other manager can best him in daily preparation, knowing his players limits, using data, all while juggling a plethora of injuries, the NY media and everything else that comes with the job. There's going to be moves that look dumb because they didn't work, such is life in his position. It doesn't mean he doesn't have feel for the game, that's an absolutely ridiculous claim, IMO.

I get this..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 10:33 am : link
Quote:
The result just makes it worse. It is the same when Girardi hooked Robertson in the 09 ALCS against the Angels, it was defensible, but Robertson was dealing and it did not show a good feel for the game


But in an Era where the HR ball is prevalent, you can see one happen at any time. Green giving up a gopher ball vs. Ottavino isn't that much of a stretch.

Look at the number of times a starter is cruising through a lineup. They go into an inning and the leadoff batter hits a dinger. Happens to Tanaka a lot. If that happens to Green, people are screaming that he shouldn't be pitching his 3rd inning. Boone went on statistics and it didn't work. If he went on "feel" that could just have easily backfired. Heck, putting gardy in the 3 hole might have been done on "feel".

You guys just can't have it both ways. We had chances to score the past two games and didn't. That's on the players to execute.
Anyway  
Kyle in NY : 10/16/2019 10:34 am : link
No change in the weather forecast. Just looking at the hourly, it's tough to see how they play tonight. Hopefully an extra day gives Stanton enough time to get in the lineup. Curious if the Astros stick with the bullpen if it's postponed or if Grienke goes game 4
RE: Sure..  
BleedBlue : 10/16/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14630689 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
no defense of Boone.

He's clearly the reason we lost.....

Jesus.



Did I say he was reason we lost? Please let me hear your defense of Boone when it comes to Torres not batting 3rd.
Iím still numb over game 2 loss  
5BowlsSoon : 10/16/2019 10:37 am : link
I expected it in game 3.....
Why..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 10:37 am : link
does Boone need defending?
RE: I never understood this so i'll ask  
BleedBlue : 10/16/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14630692 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how does a fan get to judge a manager about not having a good feel for a game? Disagree with the move, but stating that you disagree because your "feel" is right and the guy manager is wrong is absolutely bonkers to me.

The analytics era has really made for some lousy arguments, IMO. Analytics are treated like this evil data set that removes all emotion from the game. From my point of view, Boone uses analytics to framework a game/series and then will make in game decisions using them as a guideline. Just as much "feel" goes into implementing that data as it does ignoring it, IMO.

These discussions usually end up in the following:

"Boone took out X because the analytics said so and the result backfired because he didn't have a feel for the game." or

"Boone rode the hot hand, ignoring the analytics, he was really in tune with what was going on today".

Just weird. I think Boone is as dialed in as any manager in the sport. I don't think any other manager can best him in daily preparation, knowing his players limits, using data, all while juggling a plethora of injuries, the NY media and everything else that comes with the job. There's going to be moves that look dumb because they didn't work, such is life in his position. It doesn't mean he doesn't have feel for the game, that's an absolutely ridiculous claim, IMO.



Any decision they has Gardner batting 3rd over Torres I question. Whether it's analytics being shit or Boone not having a feel, either way it's bad. I would argue it's Boone relying too much on analytics and not enough on common baseball knowledge and feel.

Torres should be batting 3rd
RE: Anyway  
ajr2456 : 10/16/2019 10:39 am : link
In comment 14630702 Kyle in NY said:
Quote:
No change in the weather forecast. Just looking at the hourly, it's tough to see how they play tonight. Hopefully an extra day gives Stanton enough time to get in the lineup. Curious if the Astros stick with the bullpen if it's postponed or if Grienke goes game 4


Hopefully they cancel it early and not make fans show up first
RE: I never understood this so i'll ask  
Essex : 10/16/2019 10:40 am : link
In comment 14630692 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
how does a fan get to judge a manager about not having a good feel for a game? Disagree with the move, but stating that you disagree because your "feel" is right and the guy manager is wrong is absolutely bonkers to me.

The analytics era has really made for some lousy arguments, IMO. Analytics are treated like this evil data set that removes all emotion from the game. From my point of view, Boone uses analytics to framework a game/series and then will make in game decisions using them as a guideline. Just as much "feel" goes into implementing that data as it does ignoring it, IMO.

These discussions usually end up in the following:

"Boone took out X because the analytics said so and the result backfired because he didn't have a feel for the game." or

"Boone rode the hot hand, ignoring the analytics, he was really in tune with what was going on today".

Just weird. I think Boone is as dialed in as any manager in the sport. I don't think any other manager can best him in daily preparation, knowing his players limits, using data, all while juggling a plethora of injuries, the NY media and everything else that comes with the job. There's going to be moves that look dumb because they didn't work, such is life in his position. It doesn't mean he doesn't have feel for the game, that's an absolutely ridiculous claim, IMO.

I actually think a feel for the game is the most important quality in any coach at any level. To be able to adjust your gameplan to how the game flow is going is probably the biggest difference between what a successful coach does and what an unsuccessful coach does. They all have the analytics available to them, it is when they determine to deviate from the me that makes the great coaches great. Maybe the move is not to deviate from them for a particular game and pick your spot in another game to deviate from them. But to say a manager's analytical approach to what he is seeing in front of him is irrelevant is absolutely "bonkers to me."
I will give you a case in point in football, look at the Giants Eagles game from last November in Philly. Tell me who had a better feel for the game, Shurmur or Pederson. Pederson completely adapted to what we were doing and Shurmur was lost in the second half. Managers/coaches adjust and part of that adjustment is recognizing what is going on in front of them.
Instead of talking about Boone  
Carson53 : 10/16/2019 10:48 am : link
talk about situational hitting, that's where they are failing miserably.
Guys going up there hacking at the first pitch w/RISP, generally doesn't get it done.
For example, Didi swung at the first pitch in three at bats, all outs.
Edwin swings at the first pitch, hits weak grounder to short, with men on base in the 2nd inning.
The next game is a must win now. If they have to play four days in a row, that's not in their favor moving forward.
I don't know how they use Ottavino in high leverage situations at this point. The postseason is not the time to get somebody straightened out.
The only thing Iíll knock Boone for the last two games  
ajr2456 : 10/16/2019 10:53 am : link
Is that as much as I hate it, he probably should have had Gardner bunt in the first yesterday.

Two in scoring position with one out, down one could have been a game changer
Essex  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2019 10:55 am : link
that's actually not what I'm saying. I said "Disagree with the move, but stating that you disagree because your "feel" is right and the guy managing (updated my spelling error) is wrong is absolutely bonkers to me."

When did I ever say having a feel for the game wasn't important?
Against an elite..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 10:55 am : link
pitcher, batters will often get the "best" pitch to hit on the first pitch. So while you want to work the count, certain batters should be looking for a pitch early and swinging at it, especially a guy like Edwin who doesn't work counts very well anyway.

That isn't situational hitting because the longer a count goes, the more guessing the batter has to do, especially in an unfavorable count.

Didi got his pitch to hit and missed it by a couple of feet. You want him to take that swing.
RE: Instead of talking about Boone  
BigBlue2112 : 10/16/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14630728 Carson53 said:
Quote:
talk about situational hitting, that's where they are failing miserably.
Guys going up there hacking at the first pitch w/RISP, generally doesn't get it done.
For example, Didi swung at the first pitch in three at bats, all outs.
Edwin swings at the first pitch, hits weak grounder to short, with men on base in the 2nd inning.
The next game is a must win now. If they have to play four days in a row, that's not in their favor moving forward.
I don't know how they use Ottavino in high leverage situations at this point. The postseason is not the time to get somebody straightened out.


with regards to the at bats- man it's frustrating to watch when Didi is swinging first pitch and sees a total of 3 pitches in his first 3 ABs. But the metrics do say that your absolute best chance of hitting Cole is on the first pitch. Batting average drops significantly the deeper you get in counts. That was obviously the game plan. Did it work?? eh...With that being said, if Cole walks someone on 4 straight pitches before you, you should be taking first pitch.
RE: Essex  
Essex : 10/16/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14630735 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
that's actually not what I'm saying. I said "Disagree with the move, but stating that you disagree because your "feel" is right and the guy managing (updated my spelling error) is wrong is absolutely bonkers to me."

When did I ever say having a feel for the game wasn't important?


You did not say it, but it is inherent in what you said. Because in order for me to criticize how Boone adapts to the game I have to make judgments about how the game is being played. Now, of course, I would never say my feel for the game is better than Boone or any big league manager for that matter but I am not sure how I evaluate it if I don't have some idea of what I am watching and have an opinion on it. Doesn't mean I am right and it doesn't mean Boone was wrong, but if I am going to criticize his analytical approach to the game flow, I am not sure how I do it without substituting my view of the game. I am not trying to be difficult, but according to your viewpoint a manager's approach to game flow would be hard for any lay person to critique. Maybe that is right in the scheme of things (like who really cares what we think), but for a message board conversation I am not sure I know of another way.
Haha, I love it. Unless we can pin 100% on one and only one person,  
Jim in Hoboken : 10/16/2019 10:59 am : link
then nobody should be criticized. Havenít we gone through this with Eli?

Series is far from over, but nobody would be surprised if itís a replay of 2017. Their players are just executing better, in all phases. Sure, on paper, our players put up as good if not better stats on their baseball cards. But their team is just doing better. Is it analytics putting them in better position or coaching giving them better instructions I donít know. Is it oh thatís how baseball goes the better team doesnít always win or the other team got all the lucky bounces in a game of inches? All I know is we havenít won since 2009 with one of the top payrolls consistently. Not everything is peachy.
Haven't won..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 11:04 am : link
is a bit of a misnomer. We are playing in yet another ALCS. We won over 100 games.

Being one of the top 4 teams in baseball may not be "peachy", but I have no idea what the fuck that means in this context.
i don't think its inherent  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2019 11:06 am : link
I simply don't try to pretend to know what goes into every move, in any sport, unless its something so glaringly egregious that its obvious (Carroll in the Superbowl passing, for example). Maybe that makes for bad conversation, but I have a hard time calling something a bad decision without much to go on.
RE: RE: I never understood this so i'll ask  
Stu11 : 10/16/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14630717 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 14630692 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


how does a fan get to judge a manager about not having a good feel for a game? Disagree with the move, but stating that you disagree because your "feel" is right and the guy manager is wrong is absolutely bonkers to me.

The analytics era has really made for some lousy arguments, IMO. Analytics are treated like this evil data set that removes all emotion from the game. From my point of view, Boone uses analytics to framework a game/series and then will make in game decisions using them as a guideline. Just as much "feel" goes into implementing that data as it does ignoring it, IMO.

These discussions usually end up in the following:

"Boone took out X because the analytics said so and the result backfired because he didn't have a feel for the game." or

"Boone rode the hot hand, ignoring the analytics, he was really in tune with what was going on today".

Just weird. I think Boone is as dialed in as any manager in the sport. I don't think any other manager can best him in daily preparation, knowing his players limits, using data, all while juggling a plethora of injuries, the NY media and everything else that comes with the job. There's going to be moves that look dumb because they didn't work, such is life in his position. It doesn't mean he doesn't have feel for the game, that's an absolutely ridiculous claim, IMO.



I actually think a feel for the game is the most important quality in any coach at any level. To be able to adjust your gameplan to how the game flow is going is probably the biggest difference between what a successful coach does and what an unsuccessful coach does. They all have the analytics available to them, it is when they determine to deviate from the me that makes the great coaches great. Maybe the move is not to deviate from them for a particular game and pick your spot in another game to deviate from them. But to say a manager's analytical approach to what he is seeing in front of him is irrelevant is absolutely "bonkers to me."
I will give you a case in point in football, look at the Giants Eagles game from last November in Philly. Tell me who had a better feel for the game, Shurmur or Pederson. Pederson completely adapted to what we were doing and Shurmur was lost in the second half. Managers/coaches adjust and part of that adjustment is recognizing what is going on in front of them.

I always think this is comical when fans talk about "a feel for the game". You have absolutely no information. Forget about the #'s and analytics for a second are you traveling with the players? in the clubhouse with them? Do you know how they are feeling that day? The past week? Listen I agree I would have hit Gleyber 3rd, but the players have to come through with men on base. They are professionals, they have all produced this season. Gardy may have had the best season of his career. I agree with FMIC "feel" for P's lasts as long as the next pitch. Green for as well as he's pitched, has given up his fair share of hard contact, including one of the 2 guys he faced yesterday. I've criticized moves here and there with Booney but there is no argument the guy has had a spectacular season and really grown into the job this year from all appearances. He covers his players, didn't allow excuses through 30 injuries, and handled the pen masterfully to get them to this point with none of the RP's looking tired and done. Sure Otto hasn't pitched well lately, but thats been for a month now its not his velo, more his control. I mean one clown wants to pull the lineup out of a hat like Billy Martin did??? After 2 games? did the lineup have a rough night Saturday scoring 7 runs? Billy did that in a shit meaningless game in July in the 70's.
I'll take exciting Yankees October baseball  
UConn4523 : 10/16/2019 11:08 am : link
yearly over a once in a decade WS win, personally. Titles are the ultimate goal but for my entertainment I'll take a constant playoff presence. Same with the Giants, just get back to winning seasons and playing meaningful games in December.
"flow of the game"  
Bill2 : 10/16/2019 11:12 am : link
Sounds like thinking.

But a close game "flows" on every single pitch. Each a separate discrete point.

Want proof?

Two different pitches from Yankee pitchers and its 3-0 Yankees.

When you have as many men on base as the Yankees have had....two swings also changed the "flow" of the games.

Boone thought that DJ and Judge could get good pitches on their own. Putting Torres further down more likely than not would generate 1-4 better pitches ahead of Torres since Astro thinking would have been to get those guys off the bases when Torres was up.

Instead of taking their walks...our hitters tried to hit.

imho, the hitters have forgotten to be all out savages every single pitch. Every single pitch.

Close games are about execution. but that's data not emotion. Emotional after the fact guys torture the data into confessing someone to blame...usually substitutes for their own managers in life
RE: RE: RE: I never understood this so i'll ask  
Essex : 10/16/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14630750 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14630717 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 14630692 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


how does a fan get to judge a manager about not having a good feel for a game? Disagree with the move, but stating that you disagree because your "feel" is right and the guy manager is wrong is absolutely bonkers to me.

The analytics era has really made for some lousy arguments, IMO. Analytics are treated like this evil data set that removes all emotion from the game. From my point of view, Boone uses analytics to framework a game/series and then will make in game decisions using them as a guideline. Just as much "feel" goes into implementing that data as it does ignoring it, IMO.

These discussions usually end up in the following:

"Boone took out X because the analytics said so and the result backfired because he didn't have a feel for the game." or

"Boone rode the hot hand, ignoring the analytics, he was really in tune with what was going on today".

Just weird. I think Boone is as dialed in as any manager in the sport. I don't think any other manager can best him in daily preparation, knowing his players limits, using data, all while juggling a plethora of injuries, the NY media and everything else that comes with the job. There's going to be moves that look dumb because they didn't work, such is life in his position. It doesn't mean he doesn't have feel for the game, that's an absolutely ridiculous claim, IMO.



I actually think a feel for the game is the most important quality in any coach at any level. To be able to adjust your gameplan to how the game flow is going is probably the biggest difference between what a successful coach does and what an unsuccessful coach does. They all have the analytics available to them, it is when they determine to deviate from the me that makes the great coaches great. Maybe the move is not to deviate from them for a particular game and pick your spot in another game to deviate from them. But to say a manager's analytical approach to what he is seeing in front of him is irrelevant is absolutely "bonkers to me."
I will give you a case in point in football, look at the Giants Eagles game from last November in Philly. Tell me who had a better feel for the game, Shurmur or Pederson. Pederson completely adapted to what we were doing and Shurmur was lost in the second half. Managers/coaches adjust and part of that adjustment is recognizing what is going on in front of them.


I always think this is comical when fans talk about "a feel for the game". You have absolutely no information. Forget about the #'s and analytics for a second are you traveling with the players? in the clubhouse with them? Do you know how they are feeling that day? The past week? Listen I agree I would have hit Gleyber 3rd, but the players have to come through with men on base. They are professionals, they have all produced this season. Gardy may have had the best season of his career. I agree with FMIC "feel" for P's lasts as long as the next pitch. Green for as well as he's pitched, has given up his fair share of hard contact, including one of the 2 guys he faced yesterday. I've criticized moves here and there with Booney but there is no argument the guy has had a spectacular season and really grown into the job this year from all appearances. He covers his players, didn't allow excuses through 30 injuries, and handled the pen masterfully to get them to this point with none of the RP's looking tired and done. Sure Otto hasn't pitched well lately, but thats been for a month now its not his velo, more his control. I mean one clown wants to pull the lineup out of a hat like Billy Martin did??? After 2 games? did the lineup have a rough night Saturday scoring 7 runs? Billy did that in a shit meaningless game in July in the 70's.


Actually, no, I specifically said I am not advocating for pulling the batting order out of a hat. I just used it as an example that sometimes managers have a feel for what their teams needed any Billy probably one of baseball's best mind.
imo  
Bill2 : 10/16/2019 11:29 am : link
over a season each coin has a tendency to positive or negative outcomes. Put them together right ( flow) and you influence probability

In a tight game all flips( pitches) have much closer to a 50/50 outcome. So "probability or flow" gets to be much much less and 50/50 outcomes a larger percentage of the eventual result.

The Yankee history is loaded with guys who came up dry in playoff series and guys who hit out their ass and guys who just got that one hit ( Luis Soto). Why is that different now?

There was only one Yankee who demonstrably played better in playoffs and Ws over a sufficient sample size. He just got into the Hall of Fame.

I sure never thought Torre had a feel for the game and especially a feel for pitchers
....  
BleedBlue : 10/16/2019 11:50 am : link
Still waiting for someone to say why Gardner 3rd is smart over torres
We all..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 12:01 pm : link
wait for something.

I'm waiting for you to shut the fuck up about it or from being insufferable in the Game Thread.

We can't always get what we want.

Courtesy of the Rolling Stones.
RE: ....  
Nick in LA : 10/16/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14630798 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
Still waiting for someone to say why Gardner 3rd is smart over torres


Jesus Christ get over it. I don't think anyone believes that was the proper move but can you shut the hell up about it already? Fuck.
Good Afternoon (East Coast)  
Percy : 10/16/2019 12:53 pm : link
Not a happy thread today. Game is washed out. Pitcher impact can be significant. Tanaka tomorrow night? Bullpen situation? Will Sevy get another shot at it? Stanton? Gardner batting third? Lots to worry about and pick at until tomorrow.
RE: RE: If I understand the schedule, Verlander and Cole will be ready for  
Mad Mike : 10/16/2019 1:01 pm : link
In comment 14630474 shyster said:
Quote:
Hinch said Monday that he looks at every game as a game 7. With that mentality, if the schedule gets pushed back, I'd expect Verlander for Game 5.

Yes, he announced Greinke and Verlander for 4 and 5.
lonk - ( New Window )
Win tomorrow  
bceagle05 : 10/16/2019 1:11 pm : link
and a little pressure swings back to Houston. The bats better wake up.
RE: RE: RE: If I understand the schedule, Verlander and Cole will be ready for  
section125 : 10/16/2019 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14630910 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 14630474 shyster said:


Quote:


Hinch said Monday that he looks at every game as a game 7. With that mentality, if the schedule gets pushed back, I'd expect Verlander for Game 5.


Yes, he announced Greinke and Verlander for 4 and 5. lonk - ( New Window )


Still confident they beat Verlander.
RE: RE: RE: If I understand the schedule, Verlander and Cole will be ready for  
Matt in SGS : 10/16/2019 1:38 pm : link
In comment 14630910 Mad Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 14630474 shyster said:


Quote:


Hinch said Monday that he looks at every game as a game 7. With that mentality, if the schedule gets pushed back, I'd expect Verlander for Game 5.


Yes, he announced Greinke and Verlander for 4 and 5. lonk - ( New Window )


I said last night, a rainout actually could help the Yankees because it will force a few things

- You know you are getting Verlander again. I'd rather get him at Yankee Stadium

- I stand by what I wrote last night, I think the Yankees slaughter them in Game 4, Grienke or their bullpen game won't matter. Hinch knows that's a gravy game in the set up as he realistically wants to take 2 of 3 in Yankee Stadium. If things get out of hand quick (and I expect it will), he's going to toss out his 11th man in the pen to get his stool pushed in and save his other arms for Game 5. That game has 10-3 or worse written all over it.

- The Yankees must go back to Houston up 3-2. They do that and that forces Hinch's hand to start Cole in Game 6 on 3 days rest. The Yankees can throw a bullpen game in Game 6 and save Severino and possibly Tananka and their pen for Game 7. Hinch is out of bullets at that point since he won't have Verlander or Cole (maybe Verlander comes in for an inning or so). Hinch can't hope to throw a bullpen game at the Yankees because he might never get to Cole. Get the Astros forcing elimination going back to Houston just like they did in 2017, but this time the Yankees will have the advantage.

I do worry about the Yankees pen dying, but this is how they were built. We need Ottovino to figure it out quick. And if Stanton isn't ready to play for Game 4, I think the Yankees should pull the plug on him for the rest of the season and bring up someone who can help (Voit, Ford, etc).
RE: The call to bench Gary is hilarious  
Carson53 : 10/16/2019 1:48 pm : link
In comment 14630477 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Yes heís been bad but Romine I mean cmon guys. This is like the backup QB in the nfl. Always better than the underperforming starter. You ride with Gary til the end. Thatís what a good manager does. The guy has the ability to change a game with his pop. Yes heís been piss poor but you canít take that bat out of the lineup. The potential is there. Iíd rather have potential then a guy who goes 1-4 with a single and thatís basically the best youíll get out of him. It was Garyís fault when Britton had back to back 58 foot pitches.
.

Are you sure about that? These are his postseason numbers:The 26-year-old Sanchez, who is now batting .174 (16-for-92) in 24 career playoff games...but lets wait for that one glorious swing. And I think Romine blocks that pitch last night as well. When Gary is struggling at the plate, he does tend to take out on the field as well.
One game sitting wouldn't hurt at this point.
You guys I dont think just about any C could have blocked that wild  
Stu11 : 10/16/2019 2:03 pm : link
Pich let alone Romine it's not like he's Bill Dickey. That pitch hit in front of the plate and bounced up in the air 3-4 feet immediately. It's not like it slid under his glove or anything.
RE: You guys I dont think just about any C could have blocked that wild  
Carson53 : 10/16/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14630993 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Pich let alone Romine it's not like he's Bill Dickey. That pitch hit in front of the plate and bounced up in the air 3-4 feet immediately. It's not like it slid under his glove or anything.
.

He's not Bill Dickey, he would have moved his body and used
he chest protector. That's why they give you 'the tools of ignorance' back there. Sanchez didn't move his body,
hit his shoulder.
No that ball bounced about 4 straight feet in the air  
Stu11 : 10/16/2019 2:43 pm : link
Virtually nobody is blocking that pitch. Criticizing Gary for his D is a lazy last year arguement with little basis in his performance this year.
RE: No that ball bounced about 4 straight feet in the air  
Carson53 : 10/16/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14631048 Stu11 said:
Quote:
Virtually nobody is blocking that pitch. Criticizing Gary for his D is a lazy last year arguement with little basis in his performance this year.
.

I disagree, only criticizing him for last night's effort
at blocking the pitch. You are talking about last year,
that's not coming from me. He has been better in general.
It's not lazy in any way, plenty of catchers would have blocked that pitch btw.
He didn't move his body, that's what you have to do first.
That pitch..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 4:00 pm : link
last night was not a simple stop. It wasn't like it skipped under a glove.

Have some perspective there. That's not only on the pitcher, it would have taken an extraordinary effort to block the pitch.

But Romine is the man to do it??
RE: That pitch..  
section125 : 10/16/2019 4:06 pm : link
In comment 14631148 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
last night was not a simple stop. It wasn't like it skipped under a glove.

Have some perspective there. That's not only on the pitcher, it would have taken an extraordinary effort to block the pitch.

But Romine is the man to do it??


Not sure any catcher stops either one, they both jumped straight up. Kind of annoyed me he missed the second one on the heels of the 1st one, but the technique is to drop and bend into it. Not likely that technique would have worked. Britton does that every now and then. Shows how much spin he puts on the ball. It did not even hit the plate and it popped up.
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