is on his way to being a first ballot Hall of Famer?
I've seen some folks disparage him. Or joke that they wouldn't take him in a trade, when there were rumors Seattle was going to deal him (which they never really going to do).
I still wouldn’t now, I have never liked the guy. I admit it’s not a rational view because he’s obviously a good player but I can live with it. No trade.
I still wouldn’t now, I have never liked the guy. I admit it’s not a rational view because he’s obviously a good player but I can live with it. No trade.
I’m curious why you don’t like him? We’re all entitled to our opinions, of course...but has Wilson ever done anything worth serious criticism on or off the field?
In a league of guys like Antonio Brown, Mayfield, Burfict, Big Ben, etc etc, I find Wilson to be a pretty admirable player
Produced every single season he has played no matter the level of talent around him. Great stats. Leads plenty of comebacks and is fun to watch no matter whether you like the Seahawks or not.
He strikes me as a phony and he’s corny as hell. I know that doesn’t really matter because he’s a good player but I factor personality in a lot. Why? I have no idea but I do. Happy the Giants took Eli over Ben for the same reason, Roethlisberger seems like a dirtbag POS, glad I didn’t have to watch him for 15 years.
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
Great player. One of the nest QBs I've ever seen. Other than the people that are overly preoccupied with Eli on this board, I can't imagine anyone thinking otherwise.
He strikes me as a phony and he’s corny as hell. I know that doesn’t really matter because he’s a good player but I factor personality in a lot. Why? I have no idea but I do. Happy the Giants took Eli over Ben for the same reason, Roethlisberger seems like a dirtbag POS, glad I didn’t have to watch him for 15 years.
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
Phony? corny? Have you listened to any Eli or Brady interviews? Nothing but clichés and meaningless nonsense, AND it's the right thing to do, it's the best way to handle interviews these days without dredging up controversy.
He strikes me as a phony and he’s corny as hell. I know that doesn’t really matter because he’s a good player but I factor personality in a lot. Why? I have no idea but I do. Happy the Giants took Eli over Ben for the same reason, Roethlisberger seems like a dirtbag POS, glad I didn’t have to watch him for 15 years.
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
You are certainly right he is corny and downright painful to hear him talk at times. However to say that would be a dealbreaker for having him on the Giants is lunacy. What he brings to the field, bring his corny ass on over here.
He’s been great everywhere he’s been (NCSU, Wisconsin and Seattle), he’s fun to watch and he behaves off the field... If he played for the Giants, he’d own NY ala Strahan ...He gave us 3 outstanding years in Raleigh and 3 big wins over UNC. Too bad a terrible play call cost him a 2nd SB.
He strikes me as a phony and he’s corny as hell. I know that doesn’t really matter because he’s a good player but I factor personality in a lot. Why? I have no idea but I do. Happy the Giants took Eli over Ben for the same reason, Roethlisberger seems like a dirtbag POS, glad I didn’t have to watch him for 15 years.
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
Phony? corny? Have you listened to any Eli or Brady interviews? Nothing but clichés and meaningless nonsense, AND it's the right thing to do, it's the best way to handle interviews these days without dredging up controversy.
Yes, but he overdoes it if that's possible. Watch that interview he did with Bryant Gumble on Real Sports where he couldn't pick between chocolate and vanilla, and other harmless questions.
To have the success he's had and have teammates dislike you to that degree is saying something. I've never seen it elsewhere.
The "Go Hawks" after every single interview is annoying.
As for the football side of things, it finally looks like I'll have to admit he's a very good QB. This season it *appears* as if he's finally able to produce at a higher level within the pocket. I haven't watched all of his snaps but this is an impressive start to a season by his standard.
There have been flaws in his game that never really changed but it seems like he works around it to produce. His deep ball touch seems to always be very good, possibly better than ever.
It just seems like he's so good at throwing deep and broken plays, that it's taken away from his ability to do all the normal QB things at an above average level.
When teams can play very disciplined and have enough horses on defense, he doesn't look all world. Mahomes against Belichick hasn't either. It's really hard to play these high level of disciplined defense, much like it's hard for a QB to dink and dunk 50 times a game to win.
So I'm waiting to see what transpires this year. Losing big at home to the Bridgewater Saints so far has been highly ignored.
To first ballot status. Won 68 percentage of his games led the hawks to victory in the super bowl and if his OC was not such a bonehead would have won a second. Having an mvp like season this year
Remember when the artist formerly known as Dep vehemently argued that Wilson wouldn’t be an upgrade over 2019 Eli Manning ?
I don't remember that particular take, but Wilson was certainly among the really good QBs whose strengths he would dismiss and whose mistakes he would magnify. Mahomes was another. Eli was an opposite.
I still wouldn’t now, I have never liked the guy. I admit it’s not a rational view because he’s obviously a good player but I can live with it. No trade.
Seems to be a bit douchy? Legion of Boom didn't like him.
Why is everybody so quick to label guys first ballot HOF'ers? Â
Did it with Andrew Luck, hell probably even RGIII after one season.
Lots can change. He's a great player. If he keeps doing what he's doing then yeah, he'll probably be a HOF'er because he has the hardware, too. But the guy has a long way to go and a lot can change.
So no, at this time, I'm not going to agree that he's a first ballot HOF'er.
The OP said "he was on his way" to being a first ballot HOF Â
Did it with Andrew Luck, hell probably even RGIII after one season.
Lots can change. He's a great player. If he keeps doing what he's doing then yeah, he'll probably be a HOF'er because he has the hardware, too. But the guy has a long way to go and a lot can change.
So no, at this time, I'm not going to agree that he's a first ballot HOF'er.
You only really need to look at his career stats td/int ratio, ypa, winning percentage, and superbowl win, so unless he has a career ending injury in the next two years I'd say he is a first ballot HOF for sure. He's been one of the best QBs in the game for a while now.
Try to gravitate some to teams out here ( in Bay Area)
Seattle plays hard and Wilson is a gamer who comes up big
They started getting good when I moved out here
I been rooting for Seahawks as one of my nfc teams during playoffs because well the giants haven’t been in once in 7 yrs
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
I remember when the trade rumors were happening and posters saying they didn’t have interest or limited interest. I would happily given up multiple 1sts or whatever it took to get him. Great great player.
Some of the posts here indirectly imply Wilson is holding back the Seahawks which is comical...
yup he’s only trailing Brady for winning percentage among active QBs who have 100 starts. It’s not a perfect stat for performance but it is an influential stat given how important QB play is to a teams succes. The legion of boom era and Marshawn have come and gone yet he continues to lead the hawks to victory. And he doesn’t exactly have all world receiving talent either.
really don't watch him play if you are taking a position that Wilson isn't a first ballot player right now. Additionally, you don't understand his circumstances the last 3-4 years.
For example, that Seattle OL in 2017 was one of the worst OLs I have ever seen. They made our 2017 OL look competent. Yet, somehow Wilson got that team to 9 wins - should have been 10 if they didn't choke the final week against AZ.
Wilson got sacked 43X that year. 43! And he is mobile! Eli would have been sacked 100X. Yet, Wilson somehow finished with 34TDS ,only 11INTs, and a 62 QBR. And he tossed in nearly 600 yards rushing, which lead the team.
really don't watch him play if you are taking a position that Wilson isn't a first ballot player right now. Additionally, you don't understand his circumstances the last 3-4 years.
For example, that Seattle OL in 2017 was one of the worst OLs I have ever seen. They made our 2017 OL look competent. Yet, somehow Wilson got that team to 9 wins - should have been 10 if they didn't choke the final week against AZ.
Wilson got sacked 43X that year. 43! And he is mobile! Eli would have been sacked 100X. Yet, Wilson somehow finished with 34TDS ,only 11INTs, and a 62 QBR. And he tossed in nearly 600 yards rushing, which lead the team.
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
hmm you pose a different question, but an interesting one. I think if his career ended today he is probably a borderline HoF case, and likely not a first ballot. But that is with the understanding that this dude is right in his prime and could have ten more years. That's why I posed the original question. He is obviously on his way to first ballot status, with another 5-7 years.
Unfortunately Hall of Fame talk on this site for QBs not-named Eli Â
agreed.. i root for the Giants but I also watch the whole league as I am an avid fantasy football player. Some of the hardcore fans here seem to not give a crap about the rest of the league, but what's worse, many get loud and obnoxious as if stupidity is a noble trait.
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
hmm you pose a different question, but an interesting one. I think if his career ended today he is probably a borderline HoF case, and likely not a first ballot. But that is with the understanding that this dude is right in his prime and could have ten more years. That's why I posed the original question. He is obviously on his way to first ballot status, with another 5-7 years.
Another 5-7 year? Really?
He's in the early stages of his 8th year and has, lifetime, 210 TDs, only 63 INTs, 65% completion %, QBR around 67%, and 3800 yards rushing. Those are terrific #s to compliment the SB and outstanding W/L.
Sorry, but he's in right now...easily.
he struggles beyond the first read some games and Â
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
hmm you pose a different question, but an interesting one. I think if his career ended today he is probably a borderline HoF case, and likely not a first ballot. But that is with the understanding that this dude is right in his prime and could have ten more years. That's why I posed the original question. He is obviously on his way to first ballot status, with another 5-7 years.
Another 5-7 year? Really?
He's in the early stages of his 8th year and has, lifetime, 210 TDs, only 63 INTs, 65% completion %, QBR around 67%, and 3800 yards rushing. Those are terrific #s to compliment the SB and outstanding W/L.
Sorry, but he's in right now...easily.
oh.. i'm quite bullish on his prospects, obviously. I havent looked at his career numbers in context. You may be right. I somehow doubt if he walked away he would be first ballot, but he's probably in.. But his career trajectory is undeniable. Should be to everyone.
RE: he struggles beyond the first read some games and Â
holds the ball extra long so he makes his line look worse than they are, but hes great with scrambling and deep ball accuracy
the refs bail him out most games like rodgers and brady. he'll also airmail a ball out of the endzone or 4th down to save his stats.
great player but far from perfect, usually see him in low scoring games vs the west.
Holds the ball extra long? Do you say the same of Rodgers and Brady when they are looking downfield? Russ is a pass first QB. You make it seem he is leaning on his wheels. he's not.
“force multiplier” guys in the NFL. Players with the ability to directly impact, in a positive way, other units on the team. Wilson is in that rarified air.
Here’s how good I think he is - I would never hire a Seattle OC because you can’t judge them well enough with Wilson at their disposal. Wilson covers up and solves too many problems...
“force multiplier” guys in the NFL. Players with the ability to directly impact, in a positive way, other units on the team. Wilson is in that rarified air.
Here’s how good I think he is - I would never hire a Seattle OC because you can’t judge them well enough with Wilson at their disposal. Wilson covers up and solves too many problems...
I think all the great QBs are force multipliers to some extent.. Brady doesnt get enough credit for fixing NE OL problems in the past. Somehow Eli could never get an OL to gel, but Brady would always have a great OL by the end of the year. Solder was a championship LT but now he's no good. Same for Rodgers, Big Ben, Peyton... And with all the yammering about Jalen Ramsey, how the Rams gave up too much. Watch, that defense is about to get a lot better..
RE: Wilson's won-loss record may be the most compelling stat Â
Some of the posts here indirectly imply Wilson is holding back the Seahawks which is comical...
In the regular season yes, but postseason I'm not so sure.
He's only been past the NFC Divisional game with a #1 defense. Last time he got past that he played in the Super Bowl which is now 5 years ago.
Goff already went to a SB without the #1 defense.
I've spent the last several years micro-analyzing the NFC West. If Wilson's a great QB now, then the Seahawks are a rather average roster. It's not both. Because keeping it real, Lynch in his prime was way better than who they have had since and that defense used to be suffocating. And Wilson is definitely better now than before.
Wilson will get that team to 9-10 wins a year, every year. But after that, debatable. I don't want to see it happen, but won't deny that it could.
Maybe Wilson's a great QB with a roster holding him back. So now you're putting him into 2011-2018 Rodgers' Packers territory.
He's on his way, but its still too early to call Â
I was signing Wilson’s praises in 2012. I was told he’s a game manager and was just a product of the great talent around him. Nonsense. The guy is a terrific qb and has been since day 1. He and Carroll are perfect together.
I was signing Wilson’s praises in 2012. I was told he’s a game manager and was just a product of the great talent around him. Nonsense. The guy is a terrific qb and has been since day 1. He and Carroll are perfect together.
I was a naysayer early on.. thought he was good but not elite.. the last 4 years or so, I see it. He's great at football.
“force multiplier” guys in the NFL. Players with the ability to directly impact, in a positive way, other units on the team. Wilson is in that rarified air.
Here’s how good I think he is - I would never hire a Seattle OC because you can’t judge them well enough with Wilson at their disposal. Wilson covers up and solves too many problems...
Or he creates it too.....or shall I say "created it". This year is so precious, we cannot criticize the young man. :)
Last year, they started off 0-2.
They adjusted their pass/rush ratio to throw less and started doing a lot better. People don't realize Wilson is probably in the mid 20s of all QBs since 2012 in passes attempted. He threw 427 times last year which was his lowest since his first SB year of 407. He's on pace to throw for 504 this year. Brees has been in the mid 600s this decade except last year, for comparison. Even "game manager" 2002 Brady threw for 601.
Credit to Pete Carroll -- what they've done with Wilson is a lot on him as well. The scramble drill coaching - no team does it better since he's been in the league - is something they actually work on given his unique talent of elusiveness.
People like to assume that if you give him McVay, Shanahan, Reid, he's going to throw for 80 TDs and 9000 yards. I really don't think that will happen. He will not play in the system as the QBs on those teams do.
Those coaches are not going to hate having Wilson but they will be frustrated to an extent.
I still contend he's not a Brady/Brees/Peyton type surgeon and never will be.
His lack of ability in that context is what will hold him back in my mind in the postseason.
Never mind HOF. And similar to Big Ben Seattle doesn’t win shit without that D and Lynch. He’s playing like an MVP this year but I recall the hysteria about Matt Ryan being a HOFer. Geez. Fist ballot HOFer.
Holy hyperbole Batman. May as well vote him best ever now too if we are going be just silly
If he gets an all pro this year, which he is on track to do, he Â
his career has been excellent, not great, excellent. He’s an extremely rare player unlike any I’ve seen before. Not quite peak Rodgers but has a similar overall impact (both players typically had average at best, sometimes terrible pieces around them). As for him having a great rushing attack, do you think he isn’t a primary reason for that? If he wasn’t a threat to run do you think all the Jags they’ve had over the years would be anywhere near as successful?
And a giant LOL to the poster that claims he holds the ball too long to make his line look bad and throws away the ball to pad stats. Christ. Where do you even begin with that?
And a giant LOL to the poster that claims he holds the ball too long to make his line look bad and throws away the ball to pad stats. Christ. Where do you even begin with that?
Posts like that make me cherish sanity and the ability to process what my eyes are showing me.
DJ Fluker is starting on that line, think about that for a second. Â
every year. His numbers are as good as any. Mentioned this in another thread not long ago - 2nd ALL-TIME in passer rating to Rodgers. I'm with those who aren't huge on that stat esp in short samples, yet over careers and the life of the league, that is ridiculous - good D, run game, OL whatever. And of course he hasn't had good everything each year
And that's just reviewing numbers. Watch him play and I don't see how anyone almost any season would say he's anything less than one of the top NFL QBs over his career (at the least...if you don't want to talk all time, i guess)
Champions who are at their best when they can extend a play for a big gain. Big Ben did it with his size and surprising mobility while Wilson's quickness is just incredible. Wilson has 1 SB vs. Ben's 2, but it could EASILY be the other way around.
He's definitely a HOFer already, 1st ballot will depend on the rest of his career. He's been better than ever this year.
his career has been excellent, not great, excellent. He’s an extremely rare player unlike any I’ve seen before. Not quite peak Rodgers but has a similar overall impact (both players typically had average at best, sometimes terrible pieces around them). As for him having a great rushing attack, do you think he isn’t a primary reason for that? If he wasn’t a threat to run do you think all the Jags they’ve had over the years would be anywhere near as successful?
And a giant LOL to the poster that claims he holds the ball too long to make his line look bad and throws away the ball to pad stats. Christ. Where do you even begin with that?
When you start out a post by saying everyone has to agree he’s a first ballot guy it’s hyperbole. No I don’t. He’s gotten better every year. Where did I say he wasnt great QB now? Imo this is his best year. That doesn’t mean he also hasn’t had good years before.
Also his defense is amazing again and the offensive talent level is better than it’s been in quite a while. A few years ago when the weak. Shambles and Lynch left did he look this amazing. Im sure some of the same people who had Matt Ryan as a sure fire ball of fame guy are not so sore today.
Sorry. Hes having an amazing year and has raised his game. Great kid compared to a lot of the assholes too Just will wait a few more seasons before he becomes the next best ever for me
I mean, this is upper echelon stuff here... LINK - ( New Window )
No they cannot. Right now, that list is very small....Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson maybe. He has uncanny touch when a throw needs air under it.
And remember I would say that Wilson is a tremendous playmaker, but this is 100% a perfect example of why I think he's overrated in the context of being a top, top QB.
It's been awhile and I think he was a bit underrated, but Kap in his "prime" did a few things with his arm and legs that Brady and Brees could not do as well. See link below for such a play.
Those plays are nice but should always be the icing on the cake, not the main dish.
And yes, maybe things have changed but we're in year 8 now. Just a few years ago they hosted the Dolphins to kick the season off and he did nothing for 58 minutes, then leads them to a last minute TD drive and all is well.
Same with the Cowboy playoff game. As soon as Dak iced the game with that TD run, Wilson became unstoppable with a 30 second TD drive.
you couldn't be more wrong about the Seattle team this year. That defense is ranked 20th in points allowed per game, 20th in yards, 26th in sacks, and tied for 8th in INTs which is skewed because they only have 1 more than the 13th ranked team and 2 more from the 19th ranked team.
Russell Wilson is not playing with great players. He certainly isn't on offense and that defense isn't very good. They have let up 20 to Cincinnati, 26 to Pittsburgh when Roethlisberger got injured, 33 to New Orleans without Brees, 29 to the Rams, and 28 to the Browns. Their one good game was against the Cardinals.
a first ballot HOF'er. I think someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, but everyone thought Luck was a no doubter. Now that he has retired due to injury, most don't even think he is even HOF worthy.
Russell Wilson is a tremendous talent and is no doubt an elite player right now. What if he was injured this Sunday and never played in the NFL again, is he still a first ballot HOF'er? The point is, Wilson should have many more years in the NFL in front of him.
Did it with Andrew Luck, hell probably even RGIII after one season.
Lots can change. He's a great player. If he keeps doing what he's doing then yeah, he'll probably be a HOF'er because he has the hardware, too. But the guy has a long way to go and a lot can change.
So no, at this time, I'm not going to agree that he's a first ballot HOF'er.
Sorry, this is the comment I was referring to. I agree with Britt here.
A bit “eye-rolling” that this thread continues to have posters Â
Hope that wasn't towards me. There is no doubt that Wilson is an elite talent and a top tier QB in the league right now. There is no doubt he elevates the rest of the team around him.
My issue is more that we have to label a certain player 1st Ballot HOF'er when the complete body of work is no where near finished.
Hope that wasn't towards me. There is no doubt that Wilson is an elite talent and a top tier QB in the league right now. There is no doubt he elevates the rest of the team around him.
Based on your view above it clearly isnt directed at you...
if I think Luck will be a HoFer and he ends up retiring early, do I somehow lose out on credibility or something?
We are also talking about way different players. Luck didn't have 8 years in the league, a Superbowl title + runner up, and the level of stats that Wilson has acquired (take a look at his efficiency numbers, they are off the charts).
RG3? Why is he here, because he had a good season? No one called him HoF bound, that's making up an argument that doesn't exist.
he said "on his way to being a first ballot Hall of Famer?". I think that's absolutely true, he's on his way. He's already a HoFer and likely first ballot when he accumulates a few more years of service.
Ask yourself if Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers were or were not HoFers after 8 seasons because Wilson is in that company.
RE: by the way the OP is being misquoted as well Â
he said "on his way to being a first ballot Hall of Famer?".
yep, mentioned this same thing yesterday...
The OP said "he was on his way" to being a first ballot HOF
Jimmy Googs : 10/16/2019 12:08 pm : link : reply
Don't get all worked up, Eli will get in before him...
RE: by the way the OP is being misquoted as well Â
he said "on his way to being a first ballot Hall of Famer?". I think that's absolutely true, he's on his way. He's already a HoFer and likely first ballot when he accumulates a few more years of service.
Ask yourself if Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers were or were not HoFers after 8 seasons because Wilson is in that company.
I don't agree with that, Wilson is pretty clearly the weakest QB of that group you just listed even after 8 years. Brees is the only one even kind of debatable, but I'd still take him over Wilson.
Russ a tier below that, which is why this is an interesting thread. I still said he'd be a HOFer today and potentially 1st ballot, but let's not go overrating him to balance out those underrating him.
his first 7 years in the league then he gets over the hump in year 8 and wins a title. Wilson has done nothing but win, has 2 Super Bowl appearances with 1 win and has been the far more efficient player H2H by this point in their careers. I’d put Wilson’s career ahead of Brees’ at that point, and squarely behind the other 3. I don’t think that’s an unreasonable take.
I can see the argument there. But Brees' career is a little different from those other guys including Wilson since he's had an unprecedented 2nd act in New Orleans where he's practically averaged 5000 yards a season for a decade. Maybe you're right and Wilson is neck-and-neck with Brees or a little ahead through 8 years, but I don't think either of those guys' first 8 years compare to Peyton/Brady/Rodgers who were 100% 1st ballot HOFers through their first 8 years as starting QBs.
Wilson's defenses during his career in terms of PPG...
4 straight years with the #1 defense in the NFL? That's just an incredible support system to start your career, combined with their rushing attack. The Legion of Boom was no joke, they demolished Peyton in a Super Bowl and should've beat Brady in another. Most talented secondary in recent memory for sure.
He's a great player and probable 1st ballot guy at this rate, but I just wouldn't put him on the level of those other 4 guys you mentioned just yet.
I wasn’t really ranking them, just top of mind guys who were in at the same point as Wilson is now. Agreed on the first ballot for the big 3. Wilson will be too after a few more years. Outside of major injury/out of left field retirement, he’s a lock for first ballot status.
Looking things up it’s still unreal to me how ridiculously efficient Rodgers was/is. It’s crazy how little support he had over the years there, arguably worse than anyone on that list and easily the worst of the HCs.
You all can dissect the current elite QBs any way you want but Â
he said "on his way to being a first ballot Hall of Famer?". I think that's absolutely true, he's on his way. He's already a HoFer and likely first ballot when he accumulates a few more years of service.
Ask yourself if Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers were or were not HoFers after 8 seasons because Wilson is in that company.
exacly.. his trajectory is first ballot HoF, I didn't mean to say he is a first ballot lock right now.
I think most of BBI was on board trading for Wilson when the rumors were floating around last year.
Is that real?
That's very special company.
I’m curious why you don’t like him? We’re all entitled to our opinions, of course...but has Wilson ever done anything worth serious criticism on or off the field?
In a league of guys like Antonio Brown, Mayfield, Burfict, Big Ben, etc etc, I find Wilson to be a pretty admirable player
CBS experts had him ranked behind Winston, Mayfield, and one guy had him behind Trubisky, LOL.
2019 QB Rankings - ( New Window )
elite...
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
Phony? corny? Have you listened to any Eli or Brady interviews? Nothing but clichés and meaningless nonsense, AND it's the right thing to do, it's the best way to handle interviews these days without dredging up controversy.
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
You are certainly right he is corny and downright painful to hear him talk at times. However to say that would be a dealbreaker for having him on the Giants is lunacy. What he brings to the field, bring his corny ass on over here.
You're twisting someone's argument that isn't here to defend themselves. I believe his argument was the cost of Wilson (picks and contract).
Quote:
Remember when the artist formerly known as Dep vehemently argued that Wilson wouldn’t be an upgrade over 2019 Eli Manning ?
You're twisting someone's argument that isn't here to defend themselves. I believe his argument was the cost of Wilson (picks and contract).
This
Quote:
He strikes me as a phony and he’s corny as hell. I know that doesn’t really matter because he’s a good player but I factor personality in a lot. Why? I have no idea but I do. Happy the Giants took Eli over Ben for the same reason, Roethlisberger seems like a dirtbag POS, glad I didn’t have to watch him for 15 years.
Not really fair to compare Wilson to Ben I guess, as you said Wilson hasn’t really done anything wrong. He just rubs me the wrong way. Great player but I’m glad he’s in Seattle.
Phony? corny? Have you listened to any Eli or Brady interviews? Nothing but clichés and meaningless nonsense, AND it's the right thing to do, it's the best way to handle interviews these days without dredging up controversy.
Yes, but he overdoes it if that's possible. Watch that interview he did with Bryant Gumble on Real Sports where he couldn't pick between chocolate and vanilla, and other harmless questions.
To have the success he's had and have teammates dislike you to that degree is saying something. I've never seen it elsewhere.
The "Go Hawks" after every single interview is annoying.
As for the football side of things, it finally looks like I'll have to admit he's a very good QB. This season it *appears* as if he's finally able to produce at a higher level within the pocket. I haven't watched all of his snaps but this is an impressive start to a season by his standard.
There have been flaws in his game that never really changed but it seems like he works around it to produce. His deep ball touch seems to always be very good, possibly better than ever.
It just seems like he's so good at throwing deep and broken plays, that it's taken away from his ability to do all the normal QB things at an above average level.
When teams can play very disciplined and have enough horses on defense, he doesn't look all world. Mahomes against Belichick hasn't either. It's really hard to play these high level of disciplined defense, much like it's hard for a QB to dink and dunk 50 times a game to win.
So I'm waiting to see what transpires this year. Losing big at home to the Bridgewater Saints so far has been highly ignored.
I don't remember that particular take, but Wilson was certainly among the really good QBs whose strengths he would dismiss and whose mistakes he would magnify. Mahomes was another. Eli was an opposite.
As for the football side of things, it finally looks like I'll have to admit he's a very good QB.
Says who? Have you seen this place? People aggressively and inexorably cling to demonstrably wrong opinions all the time.
Dep's views typically came from an emotional place, not a logical place. To say that was a fringe opinion is being kind.
Mobile QBs really skew rushing total numbers. It's rushing yards on a passing play.
Seems to be a bit douchy? Legion of Boom didn't like him.
Lots can change. He's a great player. If he keeps doing what he's doing then yeah, he'll probably be a HOF'er because he has the hardware, too. But the guy has a long way to go and a lot can change.
So no, at this time, I'm not going to agree that he's a first ballot HOF'er.
The reason they went to a rush first offense was because their line absolutely sucks at pass blocking and is okay run blocking.
Lots can change. He's a great player. If he keeps doing what he's doing then yeah, he'll probably be a HOF'er because he has the hardware, too. But the guy has a long way to go and a lot can change.
So no, at this time, I'm not going to agree that he's a first ballot HOF'er.
You only really need to look at his career stats td/int ratio, ypa, winning percentage, and superbowl win, so unless he has a career ending injury in the next two years I'd say he is a first ballot HOF for sure. He's been one of the best QBs in the game for a while now.
He's well on his way.
Seattle plays hard and Wilson is a gamer who comes up big
They started getting good when I moved out here
I been rooting for Seahawks as one of my nfc teams during playoffs because well the giants haven’t been in once in 7 yrs
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
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They are 9th in rushing...
The reason they went to a rush first offense was because their line absolutely sucks at pass blocking and is okay run blocking.
The sucks at pass blocking is not quite clear.
QBs play a role in pass blocking stats. Not just getting the ball out fast but where they choose to be as the pocket slowly collapses.
Wilson doesn't help in that case for his OL.
At one time they had a lot of first round guys on the line.
this alone punches a lot of ballots...
Won-Lost record for QB's seems to be the stat du jour lately but this isn't baseball where wins and losses are an official stat...
Some of the posts here indirectly imply Wilson is holding back the Seahawks which is comical...
Some of the posts here indirectly imply Wilson is holding back the Seahawks which is comical...
For example, that Seattle OL in 2017 was one of the worst OLs I have ever seen. They made our 2017 OL look competent. Yet, somehow Wilson got that team to 9 wins - should have been 10 if they didn't choke the final week against AZ.
Wilson got sacked 43X that year. 43! And he is mobile! Eli would have been sacked 100X. Yet, Wilson somehow finished with 34TDS ,only 11INTs, and a 62 QBR. And he tossed in nearly 600 yards rushing, which lead the team.
For example, that Seattle OL in 2017 was one of the worst OLs I have ever seen. They made our 2017 OL look competent. Yet, somehow Wilson got that team to 9 wins - should have been 10 if they didn't choke the final week against AZ.
Wilson got sacked 43X that year. 43! And he is mobile! Eli would have been sacked 100X. Yet, Wilson somehow finished with 34TDS ,only 11INTs, and a 62 QBR. And he tossed in nearly 600 yards rushing, which lead the team.
extraordinary figures.
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
hmm you pose a different question, but an interesting one. I think if his career ended today he is probably a borderline HoF case, and likely not a first ballot. But that is with the understanding that this dude is right in his prime and could have ten more years. That's why I posed the original question. He is obviously on his way to first ballot status, with another 5-7 years.
Many example threads much like this one...
Many example threads much like this one...
agreed.. i root for the Giants but I also watch the whole league as I am an avid fantasy football player. Some of the hardcore fans here seem to not give a crap about the rest of the league, but what's worse, many get loud and obnoxious as if stupidity is a noble trait.
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where you play the "hit by the bus" game.
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
hmm you pose a different question, but an interesting one. I think if his career ended today he is probably a borderline HoF case, and likely not a first ballot. But that is with the understanding that this dude is right in his prime and could have ten more years. That's why I posed the original question. He is obviously on his way to first ballot status, with another 5-7 years.
Another 5-7 year? Really?
He's in the early stages of his 8th year and has, lifetime, 210 TDs, only 63 INTs, 65% completion %, QBR around 67%, and 3800 yards rushing. Those are terrific #s to compliment the SB and outstanding W/L.
Sorry, but he's in right now...easily.
the refs bail him out most games like rodgers and brady. he'll also airmail a ball out of the endzone or 4th down to save his stats.
great player but far from perfect, usually see him in low scoring games vs the west.
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In comment 14630868 bw in dc said:
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where you play the "hit by the bus" game.
If Wilson got hit by a bus today, and couldn't play anymore, I think there is more than enough in his CV to waltz in on the first ballot. He has a SB, should have two if Darrell Bevell wasn't such a dope, and he's clearly demonstrated an uncanny ability to make chicken salad...
He and Elway may be the greatest chicken salad makers ever...
hmm you pose a different question, but an interesting one. I think if his career ended today he is probably a borderline HoF case, and likely not a first ballot. But that is with the understanding that this dude is right in his prime and could have ten more years. That's why I posed the original question. He is obviously on his way to first ballot status, with another 5-7 years.
Another 5-7 year? Really?
He's in the early stages of his 8th year and has, lifetime, 210 TDs, only 63 INTs, 65% completion %, QBR around 67%, and 3800 yards rushing. Those are terrific #s to compliment the SB and outstanding W/L.
Sorry, but he's in right now...easily.
oh.. i'm quite bullish on his prospects, obviously. I havent looked at his career numbers in context. You may be right. I somehow doubt if he walked away he would be first ballot, but he's probably in.. But his career trajectory is undeniable. Should be to everyone.
the refs bail him out most games like rodgers and brady. he'll also airmail a ball out of the endzone or 4th down to save his stats.
great player but far from perfect, usually see him in low scoring games vs the west.
not sure where to start with this post so I will simply pass...
the refs bail him out most games like rodgers and brady. he'll also airmail a ball out of the endzone or 4th down to save his stats.
great player but far from perfect, usually see him in low scoring games vs the west.
Holds the ball extra long? Do you say the same of Rodgers and Brady when they are looking downfield? Russ is a pass first QB. You make it seem he is leaning on his wheels. he's not.
Here’s how good I think he is - I would never hire a Seattle OC because you can’t judge them well enough with Wilson at their disposal. Wilson covers up and solves too many problems...
Here’s how good I think he is - I would never hire a Seattle OC because you can’t judge them well enough with Wilson at their disposal. Wilson covers up and solves too many problems...
I think all the great QBs are force multipliers to some extent.. Brady doesnt get enough credit for fixing NE OL problems in the past. Somehow Eli could never get an OL to gel, but Brady would always have a great OL by the end of the year. Solder was a championship LT but now he's no good. Same for Rodgers, Big Ben, Peyton... And with all the yammering about Jalen Ramsey, how the Rams gave up too much. Watch, that defense is about to get a lot better..
Some of the posts here indirectly imply Wilson is holding back the Seahawks which is comical...
In the regular season yes, but postseason I'm not so sure.
He's only been past the NFC Divisional game with a #1 defense. Last time he got past that he played in the Super Bowl which is now 5 years ago.
Goff already went to a SB without the #1 defense.
I've spent the last several years micro-analyzing the NFC West. If Wilson's a great QB now, then the Seahawks are a rather average roster. It's not both. Because keeping it real, Lynch in his prime was way better than who they have had since and that defense used to be suffocating. And Wilson is definitely better now than before.
Wilson will get that team to 9-10 wins a year, every year. But after that, debatable. I don't want to see it happen, but won't deny that it could.
Maybe Wilson's a great QB with a roster holding him back. So now you're putting him into 2011-2018 Rodgers' Packers territory.
I was a naysayer early on.. thought he was good but not elite.. the last 4 years or so, I see it. He's great at football.
Here’s how good I think he is - I would never hire a Seattle OC because you can’t judge them well enough with Wilson at their disposal. Wilson covers up and solves too many problems...
Or he creates it too.....or shall I say "created it". This year is so precious, we cannot criticize the young man. :)
Last year, they started off 0-2.
They adjusted their pass/rush ratio to throw less and started doing a lot better. People don't realize Wilson is probably in the mid 20s of all QBs since 2012 in passes attempted. He threw 427 times last year which was his lowest since his first SB year of 407. He's on pace to throw for 504 this year. Brees has been in the mid 600s this decade except last year, for comparison. Even "game manager" 2002 Brady threw for 601.
Credit to Pete Carroll -- what they've done with Wilson is a lot on him as well. The scramble drill coaching - no team does it better since he's been in the league - is something they actually work on given his unique talent of elusiveness.
People like to assume that if you give him McVay, Shanahan, Reid, he's going to throw for 80 TDs and 9000 yards. I really don't think that will happen. He will not play in the system as the QBs on those teams do.
Those coaches are not going to hate having Wilson but they will be frustrated to an extent.
I still contend he's not a Brady/Brees/Peyton type surgeon and never will be.
His lack of ability in that context is what will hold him back in my mind in the postseason.
2011 Eli was a better QB than Wilson is now.
Holy hyperbole Batman. May as well vote him best ever now too if we are going be just silly
And a giant LOL to the poster that claims he holds the ball too long to make his line look bad and throws away the ball to pad stats. Christ. Where do you even begin with that?
Posts like that make me cherish sanity and the ability to process what my eyes are showing me.
1. Wilson commands don’t much attention that not running the ball would be stupid.
2. He isn’t playing with amazing WRs and never has. Doug Baldwin was the best WR he ever played with. Not exactly Randy Moss or Marvin Harrison.
Lastly if Wilson did all of this as a Giant every person on here making various excuses about his level of play would be singing a different tune.
And that's just reviewing numbers. Watch him play and I don't see how anyone almost any season would say he's anything less than one of the top NFL QBs over his career (at the least...if you don't want to talk all time, i guess)
He's definitely a HOFer already, 1st ballot will depend on the rest of his career. He's been better than ever this year.
I mean, this is upper echelon stuff here...
LINK - ( New Window )
And a giant LOL to the poster that claims he holds the ball too long to make his line look bad and throws away the ball to pad stats. Christ. Where do you even begin with that?
When you start out a post by saying everyone has to agree he’s a first ballot guy it’s hyperbole. No I don’t. He’s gotten better every year. Where did I say he wasnt great QB now? Imo this is his best year. That doesn’t mean he also hasn’t had good years before.
Also his defense is amazing again and the offensive talent level is better than it’s been in quite a while. A few years ago when the weak. Shambles and Lynch left did he look this amazing. Im sure some of the same people who had Matt Ryan as a sure fire ball of fame guy are not so sore today.
Sorry. Hes having an amazing year and has raised his game. Great kid compared to a lot of the assholes too Just will wait a few more seasons before he becomes the next best ever for me
I mean, this is upper echelon stuff here... LINK - ( New Window )
No they cannot. Right now, that list is very small....Mahomes, Rodgers, Watson maybe. He has uncanny touch when a throw needs air under it.
And remember I would say that Wilson is a tremendous playmaker, but this is 100% a perfect example of why I think he's overrated in the context of being a top, top QB.
It's been awhile and I think he was a bit underrated, but Kap in his "prime" did a few things with his arm and legs that Brady and Brees could not do as well. See link below for such a play.
Those plays are nice but should always be the icing on the cake, not the main dish.
And yes, maybe things have changed but we're in year 8 now. Just a few years ago they hosted the Dolphins to kick the season off and he did nothing for 58 minutes, then leads them to a last minute TD drive and all is well.
Same with the Cowboy playoff game. As soon as Dak iced the game with that TD run, Wilson became unstoppable with a 30 second TD drive.
Link - ( New Window )
Russell Wilson is not playing with great players. He certainly isn't on offense and that defense isn't very good. They have let up 20 to Cincinnati, 26 to Pittsburgh when Roethlisberger got injured, 33 to New Orleans without Brees, 29 to the Rams, and 28 to the Browns. Their one good game was against the Cardinals.
Russell Wilson is a tremendous talent and is no doubt an elite player right now. What if he was injured this Sunday and never played in the NFL again, is he still a first ballot HOF'er? The point is, Wilson should have many more years in the NFL in front of him.
Lots can change. He's a great player. If he keeps doing what he's doing then yeah, he'll probably be a HOF'er because he has the hardware, too. But the guy has a long way to go and a lot can change.
So no, at this time, I'm not going to agree that he's a first ballot HOF'er.
Sorry, this is the comment I was referring to. I agree with Britt here.
I don’t subscribe to the “need to wait and see” theory on his HOF status but I can at least see how conservative posters can have the view.
Posters debating his value though are simply taking a bad stance...
My issue is more that we have to label a certain player 1st Ballot HOF'er when the complete body of work is no where near finished.
Based on your view above it clearly isnt directed at you...
We are also talking about way different players. Luck didn't have 8 years in the league, a Superbowl title + runner up, and the level of stats that Wilson has acquired (take a look at his efficiency numbers, they are off the charts).
RG3? Why is he here, because he had a good season? No one called him HoF bound, that's making up an argument that doesn't exist.
Ask yourself if Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers were or were not HoFers after 8 seasons because Wilson is in that company.
yep, mentioned this same thing yesterday...
The OP said "he was on his way" to being a first ballot HOF
Jimmy Googs : 10/16/2019 12:08 pm : link : reply
Don't get all worked up, Eli will get in before him...
Ask yourself if Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers were or were not HoFers after 8 seasons because Wilson is in that company.
I don't agree with that, Wilson is pretty clearly the weakest QB of that group you just listed even after 8 years. Brees is the only one even kind of debatable, but I'd still take him over Wilson.
Russ a tier below that, which is why this is an interesting thread. I still said he'd be a HOFer today and potentially 1st ballot, but let's not go overrating him to balance out those underrating him.
Wilson's defenses during his career in terms of PPG...
2012: 1st
2013: 1st
2014: 1st
2015: 1st
2016: 3rd
2017: 13th
2018: 11th
2019: 20th
4 straight years with the #1 defense in the NFL? That's just an incredible support system to start your career, combined with their rushing attack. The Legion of Boom was no joke, they demolished Peyton in a Super Bowl and should've beat Brady in another. Most talented secondary in recent memory for sure.
He's a great player and probable 1st ballot guy at this rate, but I just wouldn't put him on the level of those other 4 guys you mentioned just yet.
Looking things up it’s still unreal to me how ridiculously efficient Rodgers was/is. It’s crazy how little support he had over the years there, arguably worse than anyone on that list and easily the worst of the HCs.
And I put them on my HOF ballot the first year they are eligible...
Ask yourself if Brady, Brees, Manning, and Rodgers were or were not HoFers after 8 seasons because Wilson is in that company.
exacly.. his trajectory is first ballot HoF, I didn't mean to say he is a first ballot lock right now.