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NFT: USA Soccer Loss

GF1080 : 10/16/2019 9:17 am
Berhalter and co. lose to Canada 2-0. First time we've lost to them in over 30 years. This guy is more of a disaster than Jurgen.
There was..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 9:19 am : link
a thread on this last night that is no longer.

I'll say what on said there - I couldn't imagine the USMNT sinking to a new low. I was wrong.
RE: There was..  
GF1080 : 10/16/2019 9:24 am : link
In comment 14630578 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a thread on this last night that is no longer.

I'll say what on said there - I couldn't imagine the USMNT sinking to a new low. I was wrong.


Yeah I couldn't find anything. I just don't know what he's doing as head coach. No reason with the talent we have even with some of the younger guys hurt that we should have any problem with this Canadian squad.
RE: There was..  
Jon in NYC : 10/16/2019 9:27 am : link
In comment 14630578 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a thread on this last night that is no longer.

I'll say what on said there - I couldn't imagine the USMNT sinking to a new low. I was wrong.


What happened to that thread?

It's clear Berhalter has to go. He's out of his depth.
I don't know...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 9:31 am : link
where the thread went. I'm assuming it was deleted by the OP since I can't imagine anything controversial being said on a soccer thread.

But that match last night was an embarrassment. The announcers spent the last 30 minutes of the game ripping Berhalter and the direction of the team and the effort the players were putting forth.

Asking if this team will qualify for the world Cup is legitimate. Make a change now while we have time. suck it up and bring in a fresh perspective.
What happened to that thread? I didn't delete it. The USSF conspiracy  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 9:31 am : link
runs deep.
Oh I posted it as football thread I always forget.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 9:32 am : link
Seems kind of dumb to separate it now that Politics has been banned on BBI and 90 percent of threads are football related.
You can even argue...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 9:33 am : link
that it can't be a NFT:)
RE: I don't know...  
Jon in NYC : 10/16/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14630595 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
where the thread went. I'm assuming it was deleted by the OP since I can't imagine anything controversial being said on a soccer thread.

But that match last night was an embarrassment. The announcers spent the last 30 minutes of the game ripping Berhalter and the direction of the team and the effort the players were putting forth.

Asking if this team will qualify for the world Cup is legitimate. Make a change now while we have time. suck it up and bring in a fresh perspective.


The guy I wanted last time is Oscar Pareja who, was the other finalist with Berhalter. He's coaching Tijuana now, but I'm sure would jump at the chance.

Jesse Marsch at this point would be the dream hire. He's doing great things with Salzberg.
The timing is actually...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 9:38 am : link
perfect for making a coaching change. You have time to solidify a roster and know what you have before the serious qualifying games start.

But knowing the USSF, they'll sit on their hands until the timing isn't good and it will cause a major shift in the midst of qualifying.
RE: What happened to that thread? I didn't delete it. The USSF conspiracy  
section125 : 10/16/2019 9:38 am : link
In comment 14630596 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
runs deep.


USSF is a joke. They had great momentum and blew that with the 2014 WC performance and then missing all together 2018. They need fresh blood top to bottom running that show. They almost need FIFA(God forbid) to step in. (Pretty desperate)
RE: RE: I don't know...  
GF1080 : 10/16/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14630603 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 14630595 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


where the thread went. I'm assuming it was deleted by the OP since I can't imagine anything controversial being said on a soccer thread.

But that match last night was an embarrassment. The announcers spent the last 30 minutes of the game ripping Berhalter and the direction of the team and the effort the players were putting forth.

Asking if this team will qualify for the world Cup is legitimate. Make a change now while we have time. suck it up and bring in a fresh perspective.



The guy I wanted last time is Oscar Pareja who, was the other finalist with Berhalter. He's coaching Tijuana now, but I'm sure would jump at the chance.

Jesse Marsch at this point would be the dream hire. He's doing great things with Salzberg.


Marsch would be the HR hire. Not happening though. We need to boot both Berhalters out of the USSF.
RE: The timing is actually...  
The Turk : 10/16/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14630609 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
perfect for making a coaching change. You have time to solidify a roster and know what you have before the serious qualifying games start.

But knowing the USSF, they'll sit on their hands until the timing isn't good and it will cause a major shift in the midst of qualifying.


Precisely. Ignore all that smoke coming out of the windows and then make a decision only after the house has burned down
His brother is about to assume the CEO of US Soccer role.  
11 to 89 : 10/16/2019 10:13 am : link
Berhalter isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and neither is the team. Qualifying is very much in jeopardy right now.
RE: The timing is actually...  
hitdog42 : 10/16/2019 10:16 am : link
In comment 14630609 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
perfect for making a coaching change. You have time to solidify a roster and know what you have before the serious qualifying games start.

But knowing the USSF, they'll sit on their hands until the timing isn't good and it will cause a major shift in the midst of qualifying.


agree on all fronts, so sad and so unnecessary
you hire a minor league coach  
islander1 : 10/16/2019 10:32 am : link
you get minor league results.

This has never been surprising. As long as the population thinks MLS is a valid league for national team development, we're going to be pathetic.
RE: The timing is actually...  
ColHowPepper : 10/16/2019 10:32 am : link
In comment 14630609 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
perfect for making a coaching change. You have time to solidify a roster and know what you have before the serious qualifying games start.

But knowing the USSF, they'll sit on their hands until the timing isn't good and it will cause a major shift in the midst of qualifying.
Aside from the sclerotic USSF hacks, USSF is going through all sorts of internal re-organization hoops and potholes. It will be a miracle for this to turn out right.

Where's the Meadowlands plane with the banner? Fly it over Zurich?
RE: you hire a minor league coach  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14630697 islander1 said:
Quote:
you get minor league results.

This has never been surprising. As long as the population thinks MLS is a valid league for national team development, we're going to be pathetic.


Unfortunately, a lot of the players aren't developing in the MLS - they are playing abroad. That argument doesn't really hold as much water as it used to
RE: RE: you hire a minor league coach  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14630705 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14630697 islander1 said:


Quote:


you get minor league results.

This has never been surprising. As long as the population thinks MLS is a valid league for national team development, we're going to be pathetic.



Unfortunately, a lot of the players aren't developing in the MLS - they are playing abroad. That argument doesn't really hold as much water as it used to


That is because of Jurgen and we all saw what happened to him.
Problem is his brother  
bhill410 : 10/16/2019 10:39 am : link
Would essentially be the one making call soooooo wouldn’t hold your breath.

The fact we waited for this clown to be down with mls before hire (something like 10 months) is the biggest joke of all time
JK had the right idea to open up the channels  
ColHowPepper : 10/16/2019 10:40 am : link
of player development from the restricted access. Unfortunately, he screwed that pooch because he had no clue about tactics and developing a consistent philosophy of play and consistent grooming of players to positions to which they were suited.

and so it goes
RE: you hire a minor league coach  
Jon in NYC : 10/16/2019 10:49 am : link
In comment 14630697 islander1 said:
Quote:
you get minor league results.

This has never been surprising. As long as the population thinks MLS is a valid league for national team development, we're going to be pathetic.


This is such an old and tired argument with no basis in reality.
Problem with US Soccer..  
Danthebigbluefan : 10/16/2019 11:08 am : link
At least on the Men's side, is that they haven't had much of a challenge over the last decade plus. Aside from Mexico, it's basically the US dominating.

Then you have complacency and, from what I've seen, a lack of depth in talent. Aside from Pulisic - who's the "star" player on the US Team?

Also, I think the criticism of the manager is also justified - but a bit unfair because he hasn't had the depth of talent in their prime that Klinsmann or others had ruing the Dempsey, Donovan, Howard, etc. era. It's basically Pulisic and that's it now. You're relying on Michael Bradley, who is well past his prime and never was or could be the focal point of the midfield. We see it at TFC now, strip him of talent around him and he's average. A solid holding midfielder.

Canada hired Herdman after he was so successful with the women's program, because that's exactly what he's good at. Building a program. I think the US needs to look at a coach who is going to have that same type of impact and mindset. Stop trying to just dominate the Mickey Mouse federation we're in. Start developing a system of development through youth. Herdman did that with the Canadian women's program and now he's doing it with the Men's.

We (Canadian soccer fans) are now seeing the benefits of that after a few rough displays when he first started.

RE: RE: you hire a minor league coach  
islander1 : 10/16/2019 11:12 am : link
In comment 14630705 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14630697 islander1 said:


Quote:


you get minor league results.

This has never been surprising. As long as the population thinks MLS is a valid league for national team development, we're going to be pathetic.



Unfortunately, a lot of the players aren't developing in the MLS - they are playing abroad. That argument doesn't really hold as much water as it used to


I will admit I am not current on the roster, but who is actually developing outside of the country? I've been fairly 'checked out' of the Men's NT since failing to qualify for the last WC.

I know of the obvious: Pulisic, Miazga, Yedlin, Ream.
What happened with Pulisic last night?  
flycatcher : 10/16/2019 11:51 am : link
Could not hear the announcers, but CP was taken out kind of early and he looked really upset afterwards.
MLS isn't the problem, it's the solution  
Go Terps : 10/16/2019 11:54 am : link
It has been the whole time.
It also..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/16/2019 12:03 pm : link
isn't the solution.

Getting the right coach is the solution and then he can pull the players from a wide-area of places.
The USSF needs an enema.  
lawguy9801 : 10/16/2019 12:06 pm : link
We are getting worse as times goes on. More and more kids in this country are playing soccer, and yet the national team gets worse and worse.

Does anyone at US Soccer have eyes? Do they see what is going on? What the fucking fuck?
Berhalter, unbelievable  
ij_reilly : 10/16/2019 12:15 pm : link
He had Miles Robinson in a hard workout at 11:00 PM after the Cuba game.

Miles pulled his left hamstring running wind sprints.

He is Atlanta United's top defender, and one of the best in MLS, if not the best. And the playoffs start Saturday. He probably won't be able to play.

Flycatcher,  
11 to 89 : 10/16/2019 12:16 pm : link
Pulled at 60 minutes. Obviously very upset about it. Berhalter said after the game that he had flu systems, but who knows. He wasn't playing great, but wasn't getting any help from his teammates either.
RE: Berhalter, unbelievable  
Go Terps : 10/16/2019 12:17 pm : link
In comment 14630836 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
He had Miles Robinson in a hard workout at 11:00 PM after the Cuba game.

Miles pulled his left hamstring running wind sprints.

He is Atlanta United's top defender, and one of the best in MLS, if not the best. And the playoffs start Saturday. He probably won't be able to play.


Wow. Fireable.
Darren Eales, Atlanta United GM quote from yesterday  
ij_reilly : 10/16/2019 12:29 pm : link
Eales: "He goes on international duty, and 11 o'clock at night after a game where he sat on the bench, they're doing a hard training session and he's doing sprints and he pulls his hamstring. Just really disappointed that he was put in that position."


Berhalter sprinting Robinson at 11 PM - ( New Window )
RE: Flycatcher,  
flycatcher : 10/16/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14630840 11 to 89 said:
Quote:
Pulled at 60 minutes. Obviously very upset about it. Berhalter said after the game that he had flu systems, but who knows. He wasn't playing great, but wasn't getting any help from his teammates either.

Thanks for the info, agreed that he didn’t have much help last night.
RE: Darren Eales, Atlanta United GM quote from yesterday  
bw in dc : 10/16/2019 12:38 pm : link
In comment 14630866 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
Eales: "He goes on international duty, and 11 o'clock at night after a game where he sat on the bench, they're doing a hard training session and he's doing sprints and he pulls his hamstring. Just really disappointed that he was put in that position."
Berhalter sprinting Robinson at 11 PM - ( New Window )


That is unbelievable. What an ass face.
RE: What happened with Pulisic last night?  
BronxBob : 10/16/2019 3:52 pm : link
In comment 14630801 flycatcher said:
Quote:
Could not hear the announcers, but CP was taken out kind of early and he looked really upset afterwards.


NBC reported this afternoon that he was suffering from cold and flu symptoms (with the accompanying low energy).
the state of US soccer  
AndyMilligan : 10/16/2019 4:04 pm : link
is just dismal and depressing..
One of the announcers  
idiotsavant : 10/16/2019 7:59 pm : link
In a paraphrase said to the effect of:

"What happened to the bloody, fighting Americans?"

I don't know the answer, but they certainly didn't seem that way last night.

It may have to do with soccer being manly growing mainly out if the u.s. college culture thing. I'm not sure in what way. I'm not anti college obviously. But that didn't seem like a fighting group, including the coach .

You might say so do football and basketball, recruit from colleges, but it's different when kids are pulled out of anywhere, any background , for being 6'5" and 280lbs junior year in high school. So, maybe there is built in diversity in football and basketball due to small supply of giant people forcing the broad recruiting parameters. Great.

In soccer that's not the case probably. It looks like an insider game of some kind, which never helps.

It's definitely not a talent or talent pool issue  
Go Terps : 10/16/2019 8:16 pm : link
Countries can achieve enormous things with a fraction of the resources of the US. Take Croatia, who was a 2018 World Cup finalist:

- population equal to Detroit metro area (~ 4 million)
- geographic area smaller than West Virginia
- about 1/4 the GDP per capita of the US
- only about 25 years removed from a devastating civil war
- average domestic league attendance of 2,660/match (MLS - 21,305)

My 4 year old kid plays soccer in one of the poorer states (Oregon) in the US, and the resources he is afforded probably exceed those available to the average teenager in Croatia.

The resources exist in the US today to win the World Cup, but we are collectively failing to harness them.
RE: It's definitely not a talent or talent pool issue  
AndyMilligan : 10/16/2019 9:11 pm : link
In comment 14631309 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Countries can achieve enormous things with a fraction of the resources of the US. Take Croatia, who was a 2018 World Cup finalist:

- population equal to Detroit metro area (~ 4 million)
- geographic area smaller than West Virginia
- about 1/4 the GDP per capita of the US
- only about 25 years removed from a devastating civil war
- average domestic league attendance of 2,660/match (MLS - 21,305)

My 4 year old kid plays soccer in one of the poorer states (Oregon) in the US, and the resources he is afforded probably exceed those available to the average teenager in Croatia.

The resources exist in the US today to win the World Cup, but we are collectively failing to harness them.


Oregon is not a poor state.
25th in state GDP in US  
Go Terps : 10/16/2019 9:20 pm : link
So yeah I was off a little bit. Apologies.
Waited to Weigh In  
Jeffrey : 10/17/2019 8:36 am : link
until I could think rationally. The state of the USMNT is the result of an inept federation. The "gifting" of the manager's position to Berhalter is just the latest evidence. Delaying the announcement for months, so he could apparently finish his last season in MLS just another example of the incompetence in this organization. During that time an interim coach mixed and matched players with no long term goal in place. Berhalter is just another stubborn coach fixated on his system, with little regard to player skills in the available pool.

There is talent. Quality young Americans are playing throughout Europe. Another rising group are playing in MLS. The large clubs throughout the world are not investing in these young Americans simply for publicity. They are investing because they see the talent. I can live with the embarrassing defeats, but not when they come with older players on the field whose time has passed. Where is the future of Bradley, or Ream, or even a warrior like Altidore, who remains injury prone as he enters the later stages of his career.

If you must have an American coach (why?) then go get Jesse Marsch and bring him home to take over the program before it rots completely. Little hope though as coaches of the USMNT do not get fired this quickly, however undeserving of the position.
Jeffrey..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/17/2019 8:43 am : link
that is spot on. The Federation has been a mess for awhile. Basically coinciding when Sunil Gulati took over (and that is likely coincidence, but still a shift).

It has always been an organization of backdoor deals and a good old boys network, but you had players and coaches to obscure the incompetence. Say what you want about Bob Bradley, but he was a very good coach and one that took the team on the highest path in the nation's history.

But Gulati came in and wanted a big fish. And he went and got Klinsmann and that created the perfect storm of alienating existing players and coaches, dismissing the homegrown talent and the university exposure and put the focus on foreign nationals. Gulati departing and having Berhalter take control didn't fix things, it just brought nepotism!

And that sums up the USMNT in a nutshell. when the spotlight was shining brightest and a solution was needed to turn the program around, what did the guy in charge do? Put his brother in place. Ignored the optics. Ignored the more talented options. The circle of incompetence continues.....
Thank you,  
section125 : 10/17/2019 8:54 am : link
to both of you.
FatMan  
Jeffrey : 10/17/2019 9:00 am : link
The most depressing part of this problem is that without a complete overhaul of the federation, changing coaches is useless. The federation was allowed to morph into this cesspool of ineptitude when the USMNT was largely irrelevant and ignored by all but a handful of soccer enthusiasts. Now that it is a growing sport in the US, young fans (and some of us not so young) are getting discouraged by the lack of progress, much less results.

When an organization like the Giants or Yankees or Knicks (well let's forget the Knicks) endures a lengthy period of incompetence, there is eventually an uproar that leads to a George Young or Brian Cashman to come in and try to fix the problems. What is needed now is that uproar from a larger fanbase, sick of the lack of progress in a sport that is being played by millions of young Americans. Sorry for the preaching.
As a Giants, USMNT, Knicks fan one of those things is not  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/17/2019 9:05 am : link
like the other.
Agreed, the USSF needs to be completely dismantled and rebuilt  
nygmen84 : 10/17/2019 10:19 am : link
It needs new blood from top to bottom, that's the only way to fix this otherwise we are going to end up with the same underachieving results and the same constant disappointment.

Not much more can be said at this point unfortunately.
I'm beyond polemics about Berhalter,  
BigBlueBuff : 10/17/2019 11:30 am : link
tactics, and the USSF. The whole thing needs to be burned to the ground and started from scratch.

The most alarming development is that after the joke and abject failure of the coaching search, Earnie Stewart was actually promoted and now oversees the women's team as well!
Complete joke and shameful  
Jimmy Googs : 10/17/2019 8:00 pm : link
for all involved.

Almost to the point they should stop playing until they restructure this mess from the ground up...

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