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NFT: Knicks: Dolan more hands on than we realized?

DanMetroMan : 10/16/2019 2:18 pm
"Anthony, several members of those Knicks say now, had always envisioned himself as a small forward; he'd stubbornly preferred to play that position, even though members of the coaching staff and front office say they had long viewed him as a stretch power forward who could space the court with his shooting. But Knicks insiders say that ownership -- namely Jim Dolan -- wanted Anthony to play the small forward position while A'mare Stoudemire played power forward. This frustrated some members of the coaching staff, who viewed it as driven only by Dolan's desire to have star power on the court, according to sources on those Knicks teams. But in 2012-13, Stoudemire was sidelined for most of the season with knee trouble. To accommodate, Anthony agreed to change positions. "The injury that year forced everyone's hands -- Jim's and Carmelo's," one Knicks source says."
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Fan F'ing  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/16/2019 2:19 pm : link
Tastic. The worst owner in sports, with Danny Boy a close second.
Is that surprising at all?  
widmerseyebrow : 10/16/2019 2:22 pm : link
Dude doesn't want to be blamed for anything and he goes to great lengths to show and tell everyone he's not involved.
I doubt he meddles to that extent these days  
bceagle05 : 10/16/2019 2:27 pm : link
but Steve Mills' continued presence is its own form of meddling. No one is allowed to clean house in that front office - just last year David Griffin said no thanks to having to answer to Mills.
Is this from Isola?  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/16/2019 2:38 pm : link
If so, not worth the time.

Listen, everyone knows Dolan sucks. He shouldn't be involved in any capacity whatsoever. I think he is hands off now more than ever. I think Phil kind of started that.

He spends money to put out a winning product. Unfortunately, he trusts idiots to do that for him. The problem these days is more Mills than Dolan. And I'm a guy who DESPISES Dolan.
RE: I doubt he meddles to that extent these days  
nygiants16 : 10/16/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14631028 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
but Steve Mills' continued presence is its own form of meddling. No one is allowed to clean house in that front office - just last year David Griffin said no thanks to having to answer to Mills.


Pretty sure perry brought in his own guys and did clean house, including houston as assistant gm
And tbe article makes no sense  
nygiants16 : 10/16/2019 2:45 pm : link
it says dolan did not want to bring back the vets, yet the knicks the following year brought back all the vets except the ones who retired..

even signed a broken down metta world peace..
RE: Is this from Isola?  
DanMetroMan : 10/16/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14631040 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
If so, not worth the time.

Listen, everyone knows Dolan sucks. He shouldn't be involved in any capacity whatsoever. I think he is hands off now more than ever. I think Phil kind of started that.

He spends money to put out a winning product. Unfortunately, he trusts idiots to do that for him. The problem these days is more Mills than Dolan. And I'm a guy who DESPISES Dolan.


Nope. Not Frank Isola. Baxter Holmes, senior writer at ESPN.

Senior NBA writer, ESPN. DMs open. Signal, Telegram baxter.holmes@espn.com http://instagram.com/baxter

So we are rehashing stuff Dolan did in 2012 & 2013?  
steve in ky : 10/16/2019 3:12 pm : link
I get the dislike for Dolan, but it's 2019 and that was six years ago. By most accounts once Phil arrived there was an obvious pull back on Dolan's part, which appears to have continued. The guys a tool, no argument there, but I think he has enjoyed it a lot more since he has taken a step back and let the basketball people run the team.




.  
arcarsenal : 10/16/2019 3:19 pm : link
I hate Dolan like everyone else does, but is something from 6-7 years ago really all that indicative of anything going on now? I just feel like it's a bit of a leap to deduce that based on that part of the piece. A lot has changed since then. Maybe Dolan hasn't... but I don't see anything in there that discusses stuff like this going on more recently.
The story is about Carmelo, not Dolan.  
bceagle05 : 10/16/2019 3:19 pm : link
The Knicks years were obviously a big part of it.
It's  
DanMetroMan : 10/16/2019 3:26 pm : link
certainly relevant information when to my knowledge (despite ALL of the Dolan critique) there has never been stories or the belief that he actually made requests in regard to roster and role. We can hope he no longer does such things but it's "new" information. Who has ever heard or mentioned Dolan saying he wanted player X to play a certain spot? I certainly haven't seen that previously.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/16/2019 3:33 pm : link
I don't know if I've seen that - but it's certainly not surprising.

Dolan was very clearly meddling in team affairs during that time period. It seemed obvious that he really pushed to get the Melo deal done and was much more involved in personnel stuff than he should have been.

But, it seemed to me that as of a few years ago, he's been a bit more deferential to the people he's hired to do their jobs without him getting involved.

Doesn't mean he's hired the right people... Phil was a fucking disaster. But, it seemed like around that time, Dolan had finally started coming to terms with the fact that we needed some adults in the room to handle the real basketball decisions. I don't know if the Phil era going so badly made him feel like he needed to get involved again or what his involvement has been recently... but what I read about the Melo years in NY and how Dolan was involved, it honestly didn't shock me.
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/16/2019 3:41 pm : link
From Larry Bird to Ray Allen, the Boston Celtics have suited up some of the best perimeter shooters in NBA history.

None of them ever had a hotter hand from behind the arc in a quarter than rookie Carsen Edwards on Tuesday night.

Edwards made eight 3-pointers and scored 26 points in the third quarter, leading the Celtics to a 118-95 victory over the host Cleveland Cavaliers to complete an unbeaten preseason (4-0).

Edwards' performance was a surprise, because there have been few like it in any game, no matter whether it counted in standings. The second-round pick out of Purdue was 8-for-11 from behind the arc in the third quarter, all in just under nine minutes.



"I've never seen anything like that," Boston coach Brad Stevens told reporters after the game. "He was pretty special."

Edwards finished 9-of-15 from 3-point range and scored 30 points. He made four 30-footers in the third quarter alone; across the NBA over the past 20 seasons, the most 30-footers made in a regular-season quarter is two.
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couple of odd things in the article  
Enzo : 10/16/2019 3:45 pm : link
Quote:
The reason? Staffers wanted to keep several of the veteran players, but Dolan, they say, didn't. "Every time we brought up veteran names, he's like, 'I don't want any of those guys back,'"

who could they possibly be referring to? Kidd retired. Kenyon, Kurt, Sheed, and Camby were done. Copeland? at the time I think most of us wanted him back but the Pacers offered him more than we could pay him.

Ummmmmm...  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/16/2019 3:49 pm : link
by any measure, the Knicks' three best players at the time were Melo, STAT, and Tyson Chandler. Were people really advocating that they only play 2 of those guys at a time, especially with what they were being paid?

In addition, the Knicks didn't "catch fire" in 2012-2013 as the article states. They fired MDA during the 2011-2012 season and Mike Woodson took over. They finished that season 18-6. While STAT missed some of those games, they also went 9-2 during that stretch when Melo, STAT, and Chandler were in the starting lineup together.

That part of the article which seeks to blame Dolan for something leaves out quite a bit of facts and recent history. It's nonsense.
RE: It's  
Enzo : 10/16/2019 3:49 pm : link
In comment 14631108 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
certainly relevant information when to my knowledge (despite ALL of the Dolan critique) there has never been stories or the belief that he actually made requests in regard to roster and role. We can hope he no longer does such things but it's "new" information. Who has ever heard or mentioned Dolan saying he wanted player X to play a certain spot? I certainly haven't seen that previously.

in this particular case, I think it's simply a case of Dolan liking Amare and wanting to see something in return for his $100 million. Whether or not Dolan was "ordering" Amare to get mins at power forward, he was going to play when healthy. What doesn't make sense is that Dolan was always rumored to be behind the Bargs trade. If Dolan was so in love with Amare at the 4, why is he bringing in a high profile/highly paid player to play the same position?

/  
DanMetroMan : 10/16/2019 3:56 pm : link
Dennis Smith Jr., Elfrid Payton and Frank Ntilikina may have more than each other to worry about.

No, the Knicks arenít making a trade for a point guard. But their top draft pick ó RJ Barrett ó could be another option to run the offense, at least in small doses.

ďIíve thrown him at that position a couple times already. He played some of that in college,Ē coach David Fizdale said. ďI think it adds another layer to how dynamic he can be.Ē
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Dolan  
TyreeHelmet : 10/16/2019 4:01 pm : link
Decent article but the Knicks takes seem off and unbalanced. What ďvetsĒ did Dolan force them not to resign? And Iím sure Melo pushed harder to play SF than PF and Dolan was just backing him.

The biggest indictment of Dolan currently is Steve Mills. I donít care what anyone says about Scott Perry- Mills is clearly in charge. He has no business running an NBA team.
Doesn't  
DanMetroMan : 10/16/2019 4:01 pm : link
sound like an actual rumor but...

Pistons beat guy

"
Vince_Ells56
@Vincent_Ellis56
I gather #Pistons could have interest in #Knicks guard Frank Frank Ntilikina. The type of young talent team is looking to gain cheaply and hope more is shown as he matures. Only 21. #TooEarlyForTradeRumors"

he went on to defend himself saying he's "reporting" not thinking ie claiming he's hearing something.


-Brown turned down 4 for 80 from Boston and Sac has offered 4 for 90 to Hield.
This thread is hilarious  
arniefez : 10/16/2019 7:02 pm : link
You people are complete idiots if you think Dolan isnít still Dolan
might as well make this the game thread - Hawks @ Knicks preseason  
Del Shofner : 10/16/2019 8:01 pm : link
on MSG.
Berman  
DanMetroMan : 10/16/2019 8:03 pm : link
is implying the Knicks are showcasing Frank.
starters are:  
Del Shofner : 10/16/2019 8:09 pm : link
Morris
Randle
Portis
Barrett
Smith
Trae Young quickly draws 2 fouls on Smith  
Del Shofner : 10/16/2019 8:14 pm : link
and Frank is already in.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 10/16/2019 8:21 pm : link
I donít see how these pieces mix together. They simply have too many bigs and not enough wing players or shooting. And Smith looked terrible there....
Vince Carter  
Del Shofner : 10/16/2019 8:27 pm : link
22nd year in the NBA. That's incredible.

RE: Knicks  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/16/2019 8:30 pm : link
In comment 14631311 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I donít see how these pieces mix together. They simply have too many bigs and not enough wing players or shooting. And Smith looked terrible there....


To be fair, they're obviously experimenting with the lineup as opposed to playing who the actual starters and units will be.

That being said, Frank isn't a PG and every second wasted on that fruitless exercise is ridiculous.
RJ Barrett playing point guard now  
Del Shofner : 10/16/2019 8:34 pm : link
.
I hope RJ gets comfortable at the point guard spot.  
bceagle05 : 10/16/2019 8:55 pm : link
I can't stand the thought of a shooting guard who can't shoot. Until the shooting improves he should be more of a downhill player, as he just displayed.
Trae Young is much better than I expected.  
bceagle05 : 10/16/2019 9:10 pm : link
The Doncic trade doesn't look so one-sided anymore. Hawks have some pieces.
When did Trae Young become LeBron James?  
Mike in NJ : 10/16/2019 9:12 pm : link
Guy gets every call. I think the Knicks have been called for at least 7 fouls on him.
Randle  
Jon in NYC : 10/16/2019 9:12 pm : link
Morris and Barrett are probably our 3 best players. Which is good since those were the three biggest acquisitions but also speaks to just how barren this roster was last year.
Knicks will play a lot of bully ball  
nygiants16 : 10/16/2019 9:15 pm : link
Barrett is strong for a 19 year old kid, he pushes people to get into the lane
the bigs actually play well together  
nygiants16 : 10/16/2019 9:16 pm : link
randle and morris can spread the floor..

I like to see smith attack in the 2nd half he looks hesitant trying to get others involved rather than jist attacking
Start the criticism but  
Carl in CT : 10/16/2019 9:32 pm : link
To me Frank is the best 1.
So much for this being the year  
Jon in NYC : 10/16/2019 9:33 pm : link
where Dennis Smith Jr takes a jump. He looks like shit.
Frank always looks tentative IMO.  
GiantsUA : 10/16/2019 9:35 pm : link
.
And Payton....  
Carl in CT : 10/16/2019 9:36 pm : link
2 for 14 this preseason.
DSJ  
Carl in CT : 10/16/2019 9:37 pm : link
Shot is still flat as hell.
RE: So much for this being the year  
nygiants16 : 10/16/2019 9:38 pm : link
In comment 14631345 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
where Dennis Smith Jr takes a jump. He looks like shit.


it is his first game action after an injury, lets give him a couple of games...
Ok Seems to me that the Knicks FO follows the philosophy  
yatqb : 10/16/2019 9:54 pm : link
that Jerry Reese specialized in; AA over the most important element for basketball playersó-shooting the damn ball. Iíve never seen a team so consistently awful from the outside. This has gone on for years now. Awful to watch.
Agree canít shoot  
Carl in CT : 10/16/2019 10:10 pm : link
And never figured out how to defend the pick and roll. Chasing around the pick man every time sets up a two on 1 with no weak side help is just insane. Let their best player shoot 5 ft shots great job Fizdale.
Again  
Carl in CT : 10/16/2019 10:13 pm : link
Make an adjustment!!!
Frank  
Jon in NYC : 10/16/2019 10:31 pm : link
is playing awesome defense. If he hit that last 3 I would have gone wild even if it's the preseason.

He should start.
Steve Mills Presence  
Samiam : 10/16/2019 10:32 pm : link
Millsí presence is not a form of meddling; its totally meddling. Mills is the pipeline through which Dolan meddles. While team Presidents need to deal with owners on an ongoing basis, to me Mills was never qualified to be a team President. He has the job because he functions as the errand boy.
RE: Frank  
nygiants16 : 10/16/2019 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14631371 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
is playing awesome defense. If he hit that last 3 I would have gone wild even if it's the preseason.

He should start.


i agree i think he has earned it, let smith come off the bench and be a spark plug
Frenchy is still useless on offense though  
Greg from LI : 10/16/2019 10:56 pm : link
.
RE: Frenchy is still useless on offense though  
nygiants16 : 10/16/2019 11:02 pm : link
In comment 14631379 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


yeah but the way they are going to play i think he is a good fit, it is going to be bully ball, if he can just knock down a 3 he is fine...

IF? If ANYONE on the team can.  
yatqb : 10/16/2019 11:25 pm : link
Boy, I miss those 69/70 Knicks teams where everyone could shoot, pass, rebound, set picks. Only 50 years ago.
Dolan stays out of...  
vonritz : 10/17/2019 7:50 am : link
Jeff Gorton's way and lets the team spend as much as they need. As a Rangers fan, he's the perfect owner. I hope he owns the Garden forever.
RE: Steve Mills Presence  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 8:25 am : link
In comment 14631372 Samiam said:
Quote:
Millsí presence is not a form of meddling; its totally meddling. Mills is the pipeline through which Dolan meddles. While team Presidents need to deal with owners on an ongoing basis, to me Mills was never qualified to be a team President. He has the job because he functions as the errand boy.


Meddling? Heís in charge of basketball operations. Thatís not meddling thatís management.
RE: RE: Steve Mills Presence  
jcn56 : 10/17/2019 8:30 am : link
In comment 14631441 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14631372 Samiam said:


Quote:


Millsí presence is not a form of meddling; its totally meddling. Mills is the pipeline through which Dolan meddles. While team Presidents need to deal with owners on an ongoing basis, to me Mills was never qualified to be a team President. He has the job because he functions as the errand boy.



Meddling? Heís in charge of basketball operations. Thatís not meddling thatís management.


I've never been able to understand how people don't see this more clearly. Mills has been there for the duration. You might as well have Isaiah Thomas on the staff as a PR rep. It doesn't matter what his title is, every decision made behind closed doors gets funneled back up to the top and instructions get fed back down.

For the same reason I'd like to see Chris Mara reassigned to something far away from the FO. Do I know for sure what he does, or if he influences decisions? No - but the optics suck.
vonritz  
arniefez : 10/17/2019 2:58 pm : link
That's not even close to true. But it's much harder to screw up an entire hockey team than an NBA team. Dolan 100% is the one who made the call to trade off all the vets. Whether it was the right call or not isn't the point. Your point is that he isn't messing with the roster. You're 100% wrong.
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