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PFF Mock Draft rated a QB as the #1 pick, but it's not Tua

No Where Man : 10/16/2019 2:30 pm
It's Joe Burrow from LSU....discuss
The public and media  
Sy'56 : 10/16/2019 2:49 pm : link
praise Tua a bit too much.
RE: The public and media  
RasputinPrime : 10/16/2019 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14631055 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
praise Tua a bit too much.


Way too much. I like the kid but I don't think he is my QB in the NFL.
Burrow had such a masterful game against  
allstarjim : 10/16/2019 3:00 pm : link
Florida. It will be interesting to see how he performs in the coming weeks where he will be playing Auburn and Alabama.
RE: The public and media  
Jay on the Island : 10/16/2019 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14631055 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
praise Tua a bit too much.

I would be very concerned about taking him especially if I were Miami. He is playing with two potential top 10 WR's, and their 3rd WR will more than likely go in the top 3 rounds. Then factor in the talent they had at RB, the OL, and defense and you have a team that is far more talented than their opponents every week.

How is Tua going to perform behind a poor OL without a stud WR? I am not doubting his talent I would just have some serious concerns if I were Miami. I certainly wouldn't put him on the field until they fix that offensive line that needs at least 4 new starters.
Tua reminds me so much of Matt Leinart  
Go Terps : 10/16/2019 3:15 pm : link
Easy throws to wide open guys who are superior athletes to the people covering them. I don't see it with him.
Daniel Jones/Dwayne Haskins effect?  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/16/2019 3:15 pm : link
.
If there is a guy I see coming up to #1  
Sy'56 : 10/16/2019 3:15 pm : link
Its Eason.
Miami  
jvm52106 : 10/16/2019 3:19 pm : link
could start to build a juggernaut by NOT taking a QB this coming year and tanking one more season for an all in on Lawrence!
Not surprised he is a guy that is massively overrated because  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 3:28 pm : link
of the crap Bama has trotted out there in recent years. Only seen Herbert a couple times, but I like the improvement I saw from him from last year to this year. Eason has a ton of tools that NFL teams love. Those are my 1 and 2 right now. Fromm is so blah and Tua is surrounded by a ton of talent and seems like he'll be a walking injury in the NFL.
Nah, you are all  
section125 : 10/16/2019 3:39 pm : link
wrong, like Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray, fellow OK QB Jalen Hurts will be #1. Oklahoma has a true QB machine going on there!

Bwahahaha!
.  
arcarsenal : 10/16/2019 3:40 pm : link
I'd be more concerned with Tua's staying on the field than his actual ability. I wouldn't argue with Burrow over him right now, though.

Tua is tough to evaluate... a lot of TD's come on relatively short routes to Jeudy, Ruggs, Smith or Waddle that get taken to the house. I haven't even looked, but I'm pretty sure most of the Bama WR's have big YAC numbers. Every week I watch guys get the ball in space and outrun the defense. He's also had great RB talent behind him.

What's really surprised me is how good Hurts has been in Oklahoma. He's not facing great defenses in the Big 12... but he's impressed me. I certainly didn't see this from him when he was with the Tide.

But.. he's another guy getting Heisman buzz. When he was in Tuscaloosa, Tua was outplaying him as far back as the Crimson/White game before the last championship season and without Tua, Bama probably doesn't beat Georgia in that game.
Still put Herbert and now Eason at the top  
JonC : 10/16/2019 3:44 pm : link
Eason is growing leaps and bounds. Like Burrow too, but not sure the ceiling is there while the floor looks high. Tua gets a huge boost from the parts around him at Bama. He often starts to nosedive when adversity hits too.
I wouldn't count out  
Scott in Montreal : 10/16/2019 3:48 pm : link
Jake Fromm.

He has all the tools and Georgia runs a lot of RPO offence that should give him a heads up when he reaches the NFL level.

His one downside IMO is that his throwing touch still needs work.
Fromm looked awful last week  
Oscar : 10/16/2019 3:53 pm : link
I have not really seen a great performance from him. Tua concerns me because of the size and the talent disparity, but Iíll leave it there.

Glad the Giants arenít in the mix this year and I hope Jones keeps us out of these conversations for the next decade plus.
RE: If there is a guy I see coming up to #1  
bw in dc : 10/16/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14631092 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Its Eason.


Me and a few other were touting Eason as the guy to watch in 2019. Wasn't great against Stanford...but that happens.

Where are you with Jordan Love? Did the LSU game bother you?
like Kendall at WVU as well  
JonC : 10/16/2019 4:04 pm : link
.
Justin Herbert is  
tyrik13 : 10/16/2019 4:05 pm : link
Still trash to me. I havenít seen any improvement from him in particular from last year to this, I wouldnít draft him first. Tua Iím not sold in because heís in the same situation Haskins was with tools galore. Eason could be a good get. Fromm reminds me of Sanchez too much. I like Joey B from LSU, has similar style to Danny Dimes.
RE: Justin Herbert is  
bw in dc : 10/16/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14631157 tyrik13 said:
Quote:
Still trash to me. I havenít seen any improvement from him in particular from last year to this, I wouldnít draft him first. Tua Iím not sold in because heís in the same situation Haskins was with tools galore. Eason could be a good get. Fromm reminds me of Sanchez too much. I like Joey B from LSU, has similar style to Danny Dimes.


Herbert completed 59% of his passes last year. This year he's up to 69%.

No improvement?
I didn't know what his completion percentage was but he is  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 4:12 pm : link
much faster in his reads this year. Last year he looked like Davis Webb with more talent.
RE: If there is a guy I see coming up to #1  
barens : 10/16/2019 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14631092 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
Its Eason.


That I donít see as much. Iíd like to see Eason get up there, but you really think his play on the field merits that kind of consideration? Or is it because of his arm strength?
Lawrence Tynes of all people  
bceagle05 : 10/16/2019 4:19 pm : link
was trashing Tua on Twitter, and took some heat for it. Well, Twitter heat.
whatever happened to that kid they called "Sunshine"  
GMAN4LIFE : 10/16/2019 4:19 pm : link
trevor lawrence i believe
Herbert and Eason  
JonC : 10/16/2019 4:24 pm : link
have serious NFL arm talent and accuracy, not to mention they're 6'6 and mobile.
RE: RE: Justin Herbert is  
Giants38 : 10/16/2019 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14631162 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14631157 tyrik13 said:


Quote:


Still trash to me. I havenít seen any improvement from him in particular from last year to this, I wouldnít draft him first. Tua Iím not sold in because heís in the same situation Haskins was with tools galore. Eason could be a good get. Fromm reminds me of Sanchez too much. I like Joey B from LSU, has similar style to Danny Dimes.



Herbert completed 59% of his passes last year. This year he's up to 69%.

No improvement?


You cannot just use stats and say "improvement". It's like saying a pitcher pitched well simply because he got a win. If a pitcher goes five innings, gives up 10 earned runs, but gets the win, did he pitch well?

And this is coming from a guy who like Herbert. Herbert is the one guy in this draft with "Mahomes" like ability; he can make all the throws, and he is athletic. However, Herbert is very robotic in his movements, and despite being surrounded by better parts this season, his coach refuses to implement a more pro-style offense. And, from time to time (more often than you want to see), Herbert just air-mails what should be a simple throw. I still think Herbert has the potential and ability to be an NFL Superstar.
RE: Herbert and Eason  
Giants38 : 10/16/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14631179 JonC said:
Quote:
have serious NFL arm talent and accuracy, not to mention they're 6'6 and mobile.


I just don't see it with Eason. Burrow intrigues me, though.
Jalen Hurts will be a fast riser  
Earl the goat : 10/16/2019 4:31 pm : link
Wouldnít shock me if he was the first QB off the board

Sy. Your thoughts on Hurts?
RE: RE: RE: Justin Herbert is  
bw in dc : 10/16/2019 4:32 pm : link
In comment 14631180 Giants38 said:
Quote:

You cannot just use stats and say "improvement". It's like saying a pitcher pitched well simply because he got a win. If a pitcher goes five innings, gives up 10 earned runs, but gets the win, did he pitch well?

And this is coming from a guy who like Herbert. Herbert is the one guy in this draft with "Mahomes" like ability; he can make all the throws, and he is athletic. However, Herbert is very robotic in his movements, and despite being surrounded by better parts this season, his coach refuses to implement a more pro-style offense. And, from time to time (more often than you want to see), Herbert just air-mails what should be a simple throw. I still think Herbert has the potential and ability to be an NFL Superstar.



Stats have some meaning. Everything is better from last year for Hebert - completion %, YPA, TD/INT ratio, rating, etc. Those have some relationship to a pitcher's ERA and WhiP.

Look, I was down on Herbert last year when everyone was ga-ga over him. He got progressively worse as the year wore on and his confidence was shot. So I thought he did the right thing sticking around Eugene one more year.

But I have to be fair here. He's righted the ship and seems in a much better place. Does he still have fat in his game that needs to be trimmed? Of course. But not saying there isn't any improvement YoY is strange to me...
For what its worth, PFF has us taking DT Derick Brown from Auburn  
No Where Man : 10/16/2019 4:35 pm : link
at #11.
Derrick Brown is a DT...  
bw in dc : 10/16/2019 4:38 pm : link
we don't need to overfill that position. We have enough talent there.
I've got the perfect spot for Derrick Brown  
ghost718 : 10/16/2019 5:35 pm : link
right next to Dexter Lawrence

I think it would work
Passing on Delpit would be ludicrous.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 5:40 pm : link
.
RE: Passing on Delpit would be ludicrous.  
Nine-Tails : 10/16/2019 5:45 pm : link
In comment 14631233 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
.


With the top tackles gone. Despite, Simmons, ir Ryggs would be better
* Delpit or Ruggs  
Nine-Tails : 10/16/2019 5:45 pm : link
Damn autocorrect
Looking at their mock I think there is a lot morr  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 5:46 pm : link
1st round talent coming out this year than last.
That mock is a little ridiculous  
Jay on the Island : 10/16/2019 6:00 pm : link
It has Miami passing on Tua twice including 8th overall. They will take a QB with their first pick with Tua being the likely target.

If that's how the draft fell I would rather see the Giants take Henry Ruggs III or Grant Delpit there.
As a huge Huskies fan, I'll chime in on Eason  
odunde : 10/16/2019 6:14 pm : link
He has every physical tool - his build and arm strength are all you could possibly want. I've also been impressed by a lot of the throws he has made this year, and his stats have been adversely affected by subpar receiver play. For a few different reasons, Washington's receiver corps has been a big letdown the last two years.

The concerns I have with Eason are 1) touch - he seems to fire the ball full speed no matter the throw and 2) pocket presence - he has this weird tendency to spin around out of pressure, only to lose more yardage, take his eyes off his receivers, and find himself sacked nonetheless.
Tua and Hurts  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/16/2019 7:13 pm : link
Are system guys. Like Murray IMO athletes first. QBs 2nd. Doesnít mean they canít grow but the hysteria out of the Miami people for Tua and many others is pure ignorance.

RE: As a huge Huskies fan, I'll chime in on Eason  
bw in dc : 10/16/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14631247 odunde said:
Quote:
He has every physical tool - his build and arm strength are all you could possibly want. I've also been impressed by a lot of the throws he has made this year, and his stats have been adversely affected by subpar receiver play. For a few different reasons, Washington's receiver corps has been a big letdown the last two years.

The concerns I have with Eason are 1) touch - he seems to fire the ball full speed no matter the throw and 2) pocket presence - he has this weird tendency to spin around out of pressure, only to lose more yardage, take his eyes off his receivers, and find himself sacked nonetheless.


Good stuff odunde. I missed the Stanford game. What the hell happened?
RE: Tua and Hurts  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/16/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14631276 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Are system guys. Like Murray IMO athletes first. QBs 2nd. Doesnít mean they canít grow but the hysteria out of the Miami people for Tua and many others is pure ignorance.


What makes you say the Dolphins are in love with Tua? I'm not saying they aren't but that seems media driven. Tua can throw the rock impressively, but the huge concern is when he plays a team at Bama's level his play drops off the face of the earth and durability.
Does anyone remember Alabama's QB situation  
barens : 10/16/2019 9:45 pm : link
before Tua? My goodness, some really tough critics here. The guy is a winner, he throws a beautiful ball with great anticipation, and he's got a strong arm.

People want to knock him, because as a true sophomore, he had one bad game against a really great defense.

You can maybe sight concern over his size, maybe durability, but anything else, is just silly nonsense.
RE: Tua and Hurts  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/16/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14631276 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
Are system guys. Like Murray IMO athletes first. QBs 2nd.


That Tua take is ridiculous. What's the comparison between Murray and Tua? Tua is a pocket passer, and a very good one. If you want to be critical, it's that he got to play on absolutely stacked rosters. And so has Trevor Lawrence, who nobody calls a "system guy".
RE: Does anyone remember Alabama's QB situation  
Nine-Tails : 10/16/2019 10:04 pm : link
In comment 14631353 barens said:
Quote:
before Tua? My goodness, some really tough critics here. The guy is a winner, he throws a beautiful ball with great anticipation, and he's got a strong arm.

People want to knock him, because as a true sophomore, he had one bad game against a really great defense.

You can maybe sight concern over his size, maybe durability, but anything else, is just silly nonsense.


Agree, he can do it all
RE: Does anyone remember Alabama's QB situation  
Danny Kanell : 10/16/2019 10:28 pm : link
In comment 14631353 barens said:
Quote:
before Tua? My goodness, some really tough critics here. The guy is a winner, he throws a beautiful ball with great anticipation, and he's got a strong arm.

People want to knock him, because as a true sophomore, he had one bad game against a really great defense.

You can maybe sight concern over his size, maybe durability, but anything else, is just silly nonsense.


I completely agree
RE: Does anyone remember Alabama's QB situation  
bw in dc : 10/16/2019 10:35 pm : link
In comment 14631353 barens said:
Quote:
before Tua? My goodness, some really tough critics here. The guy is a winner, he throws a beautiful ball with great anticipation, and he's got a strong arm.

People want to knock him, because as a true sophomore, he had one bad game against a really great defense.

You can maybe sight concern over his size, maybe durability, but anything else, is just silly nonsense.


Saban has won 5 championships at Bama. Four without Tua. And in all likelihood, they should have five...but that's a different debate.

So what "situation" are you talking about? Saban isn't looking to develop pro QBs. He's looking to win SEC division titles, SEC titles, and NCAA titles. I think he's demonstrated their isn't a QB "situation"...
RE: RE: As a huge Huskies fan, I'll chime in on Eason  
odunde : 10/16/2019 11:34 pm : link
In comment 14631279 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14631247 odunde said:


Quote:


He has every physical tool - his build and arm strength are all you could possibly want. I've also been impressed by a lot of the throws he has made this year, and his stats have been adversely affected by subpar receiver play. For a few different reasons, Washington's receiver corps has been a big letdown the last two years.

The concerns I have with Eason are 1) touch - he seems to fire the ball full speed no matter the throw and 2) pocket presence - he has this weird tendency to spin around out of pressure, only to lose more yardage, take his eyes off his receivers, and find himself sacked nonetheless.



Good stuff odunde. I missed the Stanford game. What the hell happened?


several big drops by receivers, combined with just getting physically manhandled on both sides of the line of scrimmage. They got punched in the face and never got fully into the game.
RE: RE: Does anyone remember Alabama's QB situation  
barens : 10/17/2019 12:05 am : link
In comment 14631374 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14631353 barens said:


Quote:


before Tua? My goodness, some really tough critics here. The guy is a winner, he throws a beautiful ball with great anticipation, and he's got a strong arm.

People want to knock him, because as a true sophomore, he had one bad game against a really great defense.

You can maybe sight concern over his size, maybe durability, but anything else, is just silly nonsense.



Saban has won 5 championships at Bama. Four without Tua. And in all likelihood, they should have five...but that's a different debate.

So what "situation" are you talking about? Saban isn't looking to develop pro QBs. He's looking to win SEC division titles, SEC titles, and NCAA titles. I think he's demonstrated their isn't a QB "situation"...


The situation was having a bunch of game managers, whom have barely sniffed NFL rosters. It worked because all they had to do was lean on their running game and defense, and occasionally throw the ball to their all-world receivers.

Iím not even sure what you are debating here? This isnít about Satan, or how many championships heís won, itís about what they have at that position, and I donít think just anyone could just replicate what Tua is doing.
I don't see anything particularly special  
JonC : 10/17/2019 9:45 am : link
about Tua's game that clearly projects him as special in the NFL. The projection is the key and the hardest part. I suspect when they get him trying to throw into tighter windows it's going to be less than impressive. Also suspect his athleticism is ordinary in terms of NFL quality, which limits his effectiveness running the football. He hasn't played well when dinged, and he will be dinged in the NFL.

It's not uncommon to look better than you actually are when playing for a dominant program like Bama.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2019 9:54 am : link
It's true that Bama won with suboptimal QB play before Tua several times in the Saban era, but those were much more traditional Bama teams that ran the football and played tough defense.

The 2019 Alabama team is completely different than almost all of the teams I've watched in the past (well, pre-Tua)

Tua is far, far better than any QB I've ever watched there. Hurts is the only one who is close - and credit to Jalen, he really took off with the Sooners and is in a great spot.

Guys like Coker, McElroy, JPW... even McCarron... none of them are remotely close to Tua. The amount of big plays the Bama offense makes in the pass game in one week now is about what you'd need a half season to compile in past years.

And yes, a lot of that also has to do with the riches @ WR with Jeudy, Ruggs, Smith and Waddle. It's almost not even fair with that group. One of them goes off every week.

That said... I think the pendulum is starting to swing too far in the other direction on Tua. He was probably a little overhyped after leading the team to a title in the 2nd half against Georgia and what he did for a lot of last year... but now, I think people are being too hard on him and it's starting to turn into him not being a good NFL prospect. I don't agree with that.

I don't expect him to be the top guy come next April, but I do expect him to be one of the first QB's off the board and absolutely think he can succeed in the NFL. Health is a concern for sure. So that's first and foremost. But, he's not just a passenger in that offense.
RE: I don't see anything particularly special  
barens : 10/17/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14631500 JonC said:
Quote:
about Tua's game that clearly projects him as special in the NFL. The projection is the key and the hardest part. I suspect when they get him trying to throw into tighter windows it's going to be less than impressive. Also suspect his athleticism is ordinary in terms of NFL quality, which limits his effectiveness running the football. He hasn't played well when dinged, and he will be dinged in the NFL.

It's not uncommon to look better than you actually are when playing for a dominant program like Bama.


I think that because of his size, and like you mentioned, average mobility, it may knock him down a peg until teams see him in the offseason, but it's not exactly like he's got Matt Leinart's arm either. He throws the ball down the field with regularity, and he's often ridiculously accurate when he does so.

If Baker Mayfield can be the first player taken, I don't see why teams would shy away from Tua.
I love Burrow.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/17/2019 11:53 am : link
LSU Bama is going to be fun in a couple of weeks. I don't think we're going to see a 9-6 final like we once did.
RE: RE: I don't see anything particularly special  
JonC : 10/17/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14631594 barens said:
Quote:
In comment 14631500 JonC said:


Quote:


about Tua's game that clearly projects him as special in the NFL. The projection is the key and the hardest part. I suspect when they get him trying to throw into tighter windows it's going to be less than impressive. Also suspect his athleticism is ordinary in terms of NFL quality, which limits his effectiveness running the football. He hasn't played well when dinged, and he will be dinged in the NFL.

It's not uncommon to look better than you actually are when playing for a dominant program like Bama.



I think that because of his size, and like you mentioned, average mobility, it may knock him down a peg until teams see him in the offseason, but it's not exactly like he's got Matt Leinart's arm either. He throws the ball down the field with regularity, and he's often ridiculously accurate when he does so.

If Baker Mayfield can be the first player taken, I don't see why teams would shy away from Tua.


There might be teams that prefer his college production over the more prototypical profile of Herbert or even Eason. I'm in the camp he won't be a special NFL QB, I don't see "it".
A Darkhorse  
LTIsTheGreatest : 10/17/2019 1:33 pm : link
a kid to keep an eye on is Cole McDonald of Hawaii. Not sure if he is draft eligible or not this year though. Kid has size and arm strength. Reminds me a lot of Josh Allen in Buffalo
.  
Banks : 10/17/2019 1:49 pm : link
been watching a lot of Washington this year. I agree with the receivers being terrible with drops. It's almost unbelievable at this point.
RE: I love Burrow.  
bw in dc : 10/17/2019 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14631598 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
LSU Bama is going to be fun in a couple of weeks. I don't think we're going to see a 9-6 final like we once did.


I agree. I think we're looking at a game in the 30s. I don't think either team rushes the passer exceptionally well, and there are some question marks on the back end.

There is going to be some serious receiving talent in that game.

Bama gets all the hype with their guys, and rightfully so, but LSU is loaded too with Chase, Jefferson, and Marshall. And I like LSU's TE Moss...
RE: .  
bw in dc : 10/17/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14631701 Banks said:
Quote:
been watching a lot of Washington this year. I agree with the receivers being terrible with drops. It's almost unbelievable at this point.


I'm seeing a lot of this theme. Now I have to make watching Husky football "must see TV"... ;)
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