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NFT: 10/17 Knicks Talk: The Battle for PG

LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 6:00 am
Hawks: 100
Knicks: 96


Once again, I watch a Knicks game in hopes I see good ball movement, crisp passes, guys cutting, finding the open man. Our offense has no desire to find the advantage. Instead, Knicks and Fizdale seem content on leaning back onto the bad habit of ISO-ball bailing us out.

The defense was actually not that bad this game.

Couple Notes

David Fizdale: Worst starting lineup we could have possibly did tonight. Portis, Randle and Morris as our starting front court should never see another minute again this season. Still questionable X's and O's coach. Another night giving RJ another 40 minute game in preseason. Much like Knox last year, expect him to run RJ into the ground by January.

Frank Ntilikina: 1-4 2 Points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists. You'd almost have to be a basketball purist to appreciate what he does defensively. He ate Trae Youngs lunch quite a few times, altering his shot with his length, forcing him to pass out of a few easy buckets he was hitting earlier, adding a couple nice blocks to his night. He is an average defender with the ability to show glimpses of above average defending. I think right now he's at his floor. Offensively, he's still a complete black hole if you're looking for points. He moves the ball nice and tries to set someone up with a shot. Unfortunately, he plays in an offense that doesn't suit his style. He's not ISO Frank. He should be the starting PG. IMO

Dennis Smith JR:First game back after sitting out previously with a lower back injury. First observation? He's rusty. Picked up two quick fouls in the opening minutest that sent him to the bench. Not a great shooting night for him either. 1-5 for 4 points.

Julius Randle: So far his best night as a Knick. Aside from two step back jumpers (Yes, two..wtf), he finished with 20 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks. His defense is still not worth talking about.

RJ Barrett: 4-14, 12 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals and a block. It's going to be an up and down year in regards with his game to game efficiency. If Fizdale can tap into his inner-coaching and somehow teach RJ to reign it in a bit on nights he isn't feeling it, then he could be special this year. He's a plus playmaker, can bully his way into the paint, and actually finish. He did miss quite a few easy layups though. I'm chalking that up to youth. The flashes are there. You can see it. Even had a nice game defensively.

Kevin Knox: He looks like he's ready to be the first of our young guys to make the big jump this year. He looks much more fluid and confident. He moves the ball well, and stretches the floor. His shot looks good. He should be getting more minutes per game this season.

Last thoughts: This team is a 25-30 win team. They aren't well coached, or even coached it seems. I don't think Fizdale is the guy who can tap into and get the best out of every player. This team better find a way to keep it close, because we don't have the shooting to come back from double digits night in and night out. Speaking of keeping it close, I don't think we have one guy on our roster who I would trust to take the final shot.

DNP Coaches Decision for Payton, Dotson and Trier tonight.

Frank  
Reeses Pieces : 10/17/2019 6:18 am : link
Does the best job running this team and he is committed to defense. I feel Fiz, at the end of the day, doesn’t want to believe it. He still has a poor jump shot. Fiz also allows too much iso ball and doesn’t run enough offense. That hammered the Knicks late with ill advised 3s with no ball movement. It’s going to be a long season....again.
watching five guys stand in an arc around the  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 10/17/2019 6:46 am : link
3 pt line for most of the game does nothing for me as an offense. The difference between Atlanta's flow and the Knicks was ridiculous. Frank made a big difference in the latter stretches of the game.
Morris is a ball movement killer  
shyster : 10/17/2019 7:03 am : link
NBA keeps a stat called assist percentage, which is the percentage of your teammates' baskets that you assist on while you are on the floor.

Morris's 6.1% ranked him 412 out of 477 players who saw any time on the court last season.

No doubt the man has skills but I already do not enjoy watching him play.
Im starting to think Fiz is the wrong guy  
idiotsavant : 10/17/2019 7:16 am : link
With so many young players you need a fundamentals + generalist type, can whereas he seems like the one for when the cake is already baked but you need buy in from the group.
you know it is funny  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 7:18 am : link
everyone is sayinf how there was no ball movement and all iso and hawks had better ball movement..

both teams had 22 assists, knicks 22 assists on 32 made shots..

and i know we dont see it much anymore but post ups are not isos
Of the 3 PGs,Frank is a multiguard,better as the off guard than as  
TheMick7 : 10/17/2019 7:58 am : link
running the point. DSJ is a shooting guard, who plays at the PG position. The only true PG is Payton,someone who can distribute the ball & run an offense, getting his points within the framework of that offense. I think the Knicks want DSJ to be the PG but I have my doubts he can effectively run an offense.
The offense looks like a complete mess.  
Heisenberg : 10/17/2019 8:08 am : link
I haven't seen anything since fiz has been here that gives me encouragement. He's easy to listen to in postgames and the players seem to like him but he needs to show that he can get a team to play organized basketball and they looked bad last night. That play for Ellington to get a 3 was horrendous.

Frank was awesome on D. Trae Young was cooking the folks on him before Frank came in and put him in his pocket. I like the Frank-RJ pairing with the ball in RJ's hands. Dennis Smith had some decent moments defensively but is a bad PnR defender. He's gonna need to become a really efficient scorer to be a net plus in most games.

With experience and some respect from the refs, RJ is gonna be tough getting to the rack and the line. Hopefully the shot starts to fall.
How did trae young cook last night?  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 8:11 am : link
he was 7 for 19 with 21 points, how is that cooking?

if he was knick everyone here would be calling him a chucker, their entire offense is him dribbling around screens and either shooting or passing it the open 3 point shooter..
and i hate to tell people this  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 8:14 am : link
but get used to the post ups, they are a big team, they are going to post people up and play bully ball...
I don't think Trae  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 8:25 am : link
was so much cooking in regards to shooting wise. I think he meant by the Hawks offense looked much more fluid and cohesive before Frank came in and started disrupting the flow. Frank did a great job last night defensively.
RE: and i hate to tell people this  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 8:26 am : link
In comment 14631430 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
but get used to the post ups, they are a big team, they are going to post people up and play bully ball...


Bully ball doesn't win enough in todays NBA. That's the problem.
RE: How did trae young cook last night?  
Heisenberg : 10/17/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14631429 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
he was 7 for 19 with 21 points, how is that cooking?

if he was knick everyone here would be calling him a chucker, their entire offense is him dribbling around screens and either shooting or passing it the open 3 point shooter..


Did you watch the game? He notably put Ellington on skates for the buzzer beater 3 and got away from Smith on the PnR at will. 23 pts, 9 Ast. He was consistently beating the knicks on the PnR and either getting shots for himself or his teammates. He's a bad defensive player but our guards couldn't quite take advantage last night - that will be a long term issue for the Hawks tho.
Knicks  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 8:36 am : link
I disagree that Frank is an average defender. Although I think his defense can be overrated at times- especially last year- Frank is a good nba defender. He was excellent against Young last night and a major reason they got back in that game. Just look at how DSJ was getting torched.

And 16 is right- get ready for a ton of Randle and Morris postups this year.

This team is missing a good shooter and good penetrator. I think the offense will struggle because of that.

Last thing- Mitch played well last night. And I really hope he doesn’t take a backseat this year. No one wants to hear this but this team is going to be bad again this year and the focus should be on developing RJ, Mitch, Knox and Frank. I really don’t want him sacrificing minutes for vets.
RE: RE: How did trae young cook last night?  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 8:36 am : link
In comment 14631447 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 14631429 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


he was 7 for 19 with 21 points, how is that cooking?

if he was knick everyone here would be calling him a chucker, their entire offense is him dribbling around screens and either shooting or passing it the open 3 point shooter..



Did you watch the game? He notably put Ellington on skates for the buzzer beater 3 and got away from Smith on the PnR at will. 23 pts, 9 Ast. He was consistently beating the knicks on the PnR and either getting shots for himself or his teammates. He's a bad defensive player but our guards couldn't quite take advantage last night - that will be a long term issue for the Hawks tho.


he was 7 for 19..

and he better have 9 assists, the ball is in his hands the entire game, this is like westbrook racking up assists, he got his assists put of sheer volume..

And i like trae young but their offense is him dribbling around until the defense either collapses or he shoots
RE: Knicks  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 8:37 am : link
In comment 14631449 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
I disagree that Frank is an average defender. Although I think his defense can be overrated at times- especially last year- Frank is a good nba defender. He was excellent against Young last night and a major reason they got back in that game. Just look at how DSJ was getting torched.

And 16 is right- get ready for a ton of Randle and Morris postups this year.

This team is missing a good shooter and good penetrator. I think the offense will struggle because of that.

Last thing- Mitch played well last night. And I really hope he doesn’t take a backseat this year. No one wants to hear this but this team is going to be bad again this year and the focus should be on developing RJ, Mitch, Knox and Frank. I really don’t want him sacrificing minutes for vets.


he cant stay on the floor, he seems to control his fouls when he comes off the bench..
my observations  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 8:53 am : link
The good:

Knox seems to improved greatly. Much stronger. Seems to have a better understanding of shot selection. Reminds me a lot of early Tobias Harris.

Randle is as advertised Somewhat of a throwback player, but still pretty good.

Same goes for Morris although he definitely has an inflated opinion of his abilities.

RJB will have some struggles, but that is one mature, competitive player.



Franks defense.

Ellington's shooting.

The bad:

DSJ just has no feel for the game. Its almost like he took all that athletic ability and chose the wrong path; like he should have been an NFL WR.

Franks offense.

Ellington - anothing but shooting.
They are an ugly, pathetic excuse for a team.  
yatqb : 10/17/2019 8:58 am : link
And I agree about Fizdale; they don’t play team ball at all; no cohesion whatsoever.
RE: They are an ugly, pathetic excuse for a team.  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 9:09 am : link
In comment 14631467 yatqb said:
Quote:
And I agree about Fizdale; they don’t play team ball at all; no cohesion whatsoever.


who had more cohesion last night?
Incongruity  
Jim in Fairfax : 10/17/2019 9:13 am : link

”Much like Knox last year, expect him to run RJ into the ground by January. ”

“Kevin Knox: ....He should be getting more minutes per game this season.”
RE: They are an ugly, pathetic excuse for a team.  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 9:17 am : link
In comment 14631467 yatqb said:
Quote:
And I agree about Fizdale; they don’t play team ball at all; no cohesion whatsoever.


your team is big, of course you are going to run post ups
My big take away from the preseason thus far  
Mike in NJ : 10/17/2019 9:29 am : link
Is that RJ Barrett should be the primary ball handler. He looks really good as a facilitator, was looking to set up his teammates and seemed to play more under control when he was the one bringing the ball up the court.

There has been a lot of back and forth over the last couple of years about whether or not Frankie is a PG, and Barrett taking the creator role helps to make up for a lot of Frank’s deficiencies on offense, and allows him to focus on defense.

I’ve also really liked Barrett’s effort on D. He definitely still has deficiencies and a lot to learn on that end before he’s a “good” defender, but he shows a willingness and definitely has the potential to be above average on that side of the floor.

Bradley Beal  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 9:31 am : link
Signs 2 year extension and won't be a free agent until 2022 or 2023. From Yahoo:

What Beal loses with this extension:

A chance to hit 2021 free agency, when his projected max starting salary would’ve been $38 million
A chance to trigger super-max eligibility by making an All-NBA team this season or next, which would’ve increased his max salary in 2021-22 to $44 million
The ability to get traded this season

What Beal gains with this extension:

A guaranteed $71,764,428
RE: My big take away from the preseason thus far  
Justlurking : 10/17/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14631489 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
Is that RJ Barrett should be the primary ball handler. He looks really good as a facilitator, was looking to set up his teammates and seemed to play more under control when he was the one bringing the ball up the court.

There has been a lot of back and forth over the last couple of years about whether or not Frankie is a PG, and Barrett taking the creator role helps to make up for a lot of Frank’s deficiencies on offense, and allows him to focus on defense.

I’ve also really liked Barrett’s effort on D. He definitely still has deficiencies and a lot to learn on that end before he’s a “good” defender, but he shows a willingness and definitely has the potential to be above average on that side of the floor.


This was my takeaway as well. RJB looks like a real player. Needs to get some muscle and they may have something. They need a few real shooters is my biggest negative. No one is a legit outside presence.
RE: Incongruity  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 10:00 am : link
In comment 14631476 Jim in Fairfax said:
Quote:

”Much like Knox last year, expect him to run RJ into the ground by January. ”

“Kevin Knox: ....He should be getting more minutes per game this season.”


Per game on average I should have meant. He only got 20 yesterday. Around 28-30 is what he should be getting this year.
RE: RE: My big take away from the preseason thus far  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14631493 Justlurking said:
Quote:
In comment 14631489 Mike in NJ said:


Quote:


Is that RJ Barrett should be the primary ball handler. He looks really good as a facilitator, was looking to set up his teammates and seemed to play more under control when he was the one bringing the ball up the court.

There has been a lot of back and forth over the last couple of years about whether or not Frankie is a PG, and Barrett taking the creator role helps to make up for a lot of Frank’s deficiencies on offense, and allows him to focus on defense.

I’ve also really liked Barrett’s effort on D. He definitely still has deficiencies and a lot to learn on that end before he’s a “good” defender, but he shows a willingness and definitely has the potential to be above average on that side of the floor.




This was my takeaway as well. RJB looks like a real player. Needs to get some muscle and they may have something. They need a few real shooters is my biggest negative. No one is a legit outside presence.


Was also impressed with Barrett last night too. Would love to see Frank and Dot develop into those 3 and D shooters to spread the floor.

I would also be looking to trade Morris or one of the bigs for a wing shooter the first they are eligible to be traded.
I agree with RJ in a playmaker role.  
bceagle05 : 10/17/2019 10:04 am : link
He seems to have the chops for it, and the pick n roll game allows him to get downhill toward the basket, which is his strength right now. He'll get lost off the ball, and his poor shooting will be exposed even more. If the Knicks are as strong in player development as they tell us they are, they'll play to RJ's strengths and get his career off to a good start.
Seems like the plan right now  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 10:10 am : link
is run the offense through randle with morris as the secondary guy..

Once one of those guys come off the court rj gets more touches and is able to create..
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 10:42 am : link

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
·
2h
Washington Wizards All-Star Bradley Beal has agreed to extend his deal for two years on a $72M maximum contract, agent Mark Bartelstein of
@PrioritySports
tells ESPN. Deal includes player option for 2022-23. Total value: 4-years, nearly $130M. Story:
According to the Post, Pistons may have interest in both Ntilikina  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 10:46 am : link
and Dotson. They may have sent former Knick Malik Rose to scout Frank, probably to be a friend to Sekou.

Maybe reunite the Morris Twins?
Why  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 10:54 am : link
would the Knicks want Markieff Morris? No thanks.
I was hoping Beal would find his way to a better team.  
bceagle05 : 10/17/2019 10:57 am : link
Or better yet, the Knicks. He's one of my favorite players in the league - I'd love to see him flourish with some better talent around him.
This makes sense to me  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 11:05 am : link
Ntlikina + Dotson

for

Kennard + Frazier
Markieff Morris  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 11:06 am : link
is 30, a FA after the season and almost certainly would lead to more wins this season than Frank. No shot at you Anak but what would be the thought process there?
Knicks  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 11:10 am : link
were very high on Kennard but I'd be very surprised if the Pistons moved him after Casey really talking him up as a key piece of the second unit.
if knicks trade frank  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 11:10 am : link
it has to be for a shooter, knicks need someone to consistently spread the floor for rj, randle and morris
This is a crazy thought  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 11:14 am : link
but why do the knicks have to start smith, frank or payton?

the ball is going to be run through randle and morris, why not start ellington next to barrett?

Barrett can create more and you add a shooter to the starting lineup..

Bench: smith, frank, knox, portis, gibson..

If frank could show a consistent jumper it would be a no brainer to start him
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 11:15 am : link

Alan Hahn
@alanhahn
·
4m
And 0% of GMs think RJ Barrett will contend for Rookie of the Year, or be one of the best players from this draft class in five years.
RE: Markieff Morris  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14631550 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is 30, a FA after the season and almost certainly would lead to more wins this season than Frank. No shot at you Anak but what would be the thought process there?


None. I was just wondering if they would reunite the twins
RE: .  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 11:20 am : link
In comment 14631555 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:

Alan Hahn
@alanhahn
·
4m
And 0% of GMs think RJ Barrett will contend for Rookie of the Year, or be one of the best players from this draft class in five years.


Such horseshit. And weren't these experts saying that Barrett had better long-term potential than Zion?


Prove 'em wrong, RJ
I'm very curious to see how Garland performs in Cleveland.  
bceagle05 : 10/17/2019 11:25 am : link
I like RJ, but I was quietly hoping the Knicks would make Garland the surprise pick. I think he's tailor-made for today's NBA.
RE: RE: .  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 11:32 am : link
In comment 14631563 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14631555 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:



Alan Hahn
@alanhahn
·
4m
And 0% of GMs think RJ Barrett will contend for Rookie of the Year, or be one of the best players from this draft class in five years.



Such horseshit. And weren't these experts saying that Barrett had better long-term potential than Zion?


Prove 'em wrong, RJ


What are you new? once a player becomes a knick he sucks, once he leaves he is awesome..
Reddish didn’t look great last night. Hunter looked smooth and has a  
Jim in Hoboken : 10/17/2019 11:49 am : link
nice touch. We are all shocked by how unathletic Barrett looks, but he can still be a good player, prob not elite though.

The Knicks missed big by not getting the top 2 pick, fuck the NBA.
RE: Reddish didn’t look great last night. Hunter looked smooth and has a  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14631593 Jim in Hoboken said:
Quote:
nice touch. We are all shocked by how unathletic Barrett looks, but he can still be a good player, prob not elite though.

The Knicks missed big by not getting the top 2 pick, fuck the NBA.


Barrett looks unathletic?
He certainly lacks explosion in his game  
Greg from LI : 10/17/2019 11:55 am : link
He's pretty smooth and strong, but not particularly quick.

DeAndre Hunter did indeed look very good, at least when ballhog Trae Young deigned to pass to him.
I agree that he looks  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 12:01 pm : link
average athletically but I like the following:

-high end competitiveness
-nothing seems too big for him
-size/strength
-seems to be doing well defensively
-"lefty-ness" (he's got a lot of Walter Berry like funky release points in the paint that drive defenders crazy)

Obviously the shooting improvement will be critical.
Based on first impression  
bceagle05 : 10/17/2019 12:11 pm : link
I like RJ more than I thought I would. I think NBA spacing will help him navigate defenses, and he just competes hard. Sounds basic, but the Knicks have lacked that, especially from their young players. Losing is gonna bother RJ, and he'll work his ass off even more because of it. Guys like that are easy to root for.
Knicks  
Phil in LA : 10/17/2019 12:15 pm : link
signed Zak Irvin.
Sounds like buddy hield is going to ask for a trade  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 12:17 pm : link
..
RE: Based on first impression  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14631609 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I like RJ more than I thought I would. I think NBA spacing will help him navigate defenses, and he just competes hard. Sounds basic, but the Knicks have lacked that, especially from their young players. Losing is gonna bother RJ, and he'll work his ass off even more because of it. Guys like that are easy to root for.


Well said. Sure there has been a lack of talent (starting guys like Calderon, Mudiay etc.) but the toxin in the Knicks system is that too many guys over the years play for "ME" and not for "WE". Marbury, Curry, Hardaway, Anthony etc. -- consumate loser players.
RE: Knicks  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 12:26 pm : link
In comment 14631615 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
signed Zak Irvin.


We want Jontay!
Barrett  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 12:31 pm : link
is unathletic? Ummmm ..okay? He might have that elite burst that few have. But his body control and awareness at his age is damn near elite. Again, he's young.

And Hunter looks like a poor mans Kawhi.
For  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 12:42 pm : link
a wing, Barrett does NOT have "elite burst". Very mature body, high IQ but vs. the other "beast" 2/3's he's just not a monster pure run/jump/quicks guy.
RE: Barrett  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14631629 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
is unathletic? Ummmm ..okay? He might have that elite burst that few have. But his body control and awareness at his age is damn near elite. Again, he's young.

And Hunter looks like a poor mans Kawhi.


He might NOT have. Fixed.
Dan  
Phil in LA : 10/17/2019 1:01 pm : link
did you ever see Earl Monroe?
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 1:08 pm : link
In comment 14631643 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
did you ever see Earl Monroe?


Phil,
Do you believe RJ Barrett has "elite burst that few have"? I find that hard to believe.
.  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 1:13 pm : link
"Born without great jumping ability, height and speed, Earl Monroe adapted his game on a daily basis to allow himself to succeed. He created shots and moves in a so called “playground” style that changed the way people play the game of basketball"

So my response to that comment remains. Earl Monroe was an all-time great. He did not have elite "burst", nor does Barrett.
RE: RE: Dan  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 1:15 pm : link
In comment 14631647 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14631643 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


did you ever see Earl Monroe?



Phil,
Do you believe RJ Barrett has "elite burst that few have"? I find that hard to believe.


Dan,

I corrected myself. I meant to say RJ Barrett does not have elite burst that few have. But he does have.....
.  
Del Shofner : 10/17/2019 1:17 pm : link
slightly off topic, but an interesting read on Carmelo Anthony's last days in the NBA

Melo - ( New Window )
Dan  
Phil in LA : 10/17/2019 1:21 pm : link
There’s a long history of great scorers who lack MJ burst. What is fascinating about RJ is his spatial understanding, which helps him get to the hole as well as rack up assists and rebounds, while also checking in with steals and blocks. I think he will be a top 10 player from this draft and a big scorer who also checks other boxes. I don’t need him to win the slam dunk contest.
RE: Dan  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 1:23 pm : link
In comment 14631662 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
There’s a long history of great scorers who lack MJ burst. What is fascinating about RJ is his spatial understanding, which helps him get to the hole as well as rack up assists and rebounds, while also checking in with steals and blocks. I think he will be a top 10 player from this draft and a big scorer who also checks other boxes. I don’t need him to win the slam dunk contest.



But that has absolutely nothing to do with the question of him being a "special" run/jump athlete. He's not. Plenty of good players aren't but he's clearly not a special run/jump athlete at the 2/3 spot.
could see RJ  
hitdog42 : 10/17/2019 1:24 pm : link
having a tyreke evans type rookie year
Dan we agree he’s not MJ  
Phil in LA : 10/17/2019 1:27 pm : link
But he’s also not Roy Marble, Darnell Hillman, Dwayne Scales or the scores and scores of run/jump guys who got drafted over players.
RE: could see RJ  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 1:32 pm : link
In comment 14631667 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
having a tyreke evans type rookie year


Nice comparison. Never seen that one before.
RE: Dan we agree he’s not MJ  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 1:35 pm : link
In comment 14631671 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
But he’s also not Roy Marble, Darnell Hillman, Dwayne Scales or the scores and scores of run/jump guys who got drafted over players.


I don't think he is being knocked. I think the consensus is that he's a solid/average athlete that seems to have elite intangibles, a body of a 25 year old NBA vet, pleasantly surprising play-making and defensive skills.
RE: RE: Dan we agree he’s not MJ  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14631682 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631671 Phil in LA said:


Quote:


But he’s also not Roy Marble, Darnell Hillman, Dwayne Scales or the scores and scores of run/jump guys who got drafted over players.



I don't think he is being knocked. I think the consensus is that he's a solid/average athlete that seems to have elite intangibles, a body of a 25 year old NBA vet, pleasantly surprising play-making and defensive skills.


someone just said he will not be an elite player because he is unathletic
Pistons  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 1:38 pm : link
If the knicks trade Frank and Dotson for Markieff Morris I'm done with this team...

And RJ is not a special explosive athlete in the NBA. That is pretty clear. Doesn't mean he can't become a good or even great player. But that is simply true and isn't going to change.
RE: Pistons  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14631687 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
If the knicks trade Frank and Dotson for Markieff Morris I'm done with this team...

And RJ is not a special explosive athlete in the NBA. That is pretty clear. Doesn't mean he can't become a good or even great player. But that is simply true and isn't going to change.


There is no chance they do this. Doesn't make sense on ANY level. In fact, I challenge someone to make a case for it lol
for rj to become an elite player  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 1:57 pm : link
because he is not an elite athlete, he has to knock down the open 3 and learn to shoot off the dribble consistently..
There's no root to the Markieff rumor  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 2:02 pm : link
I just speculated because we have one Morris twin and they have the other.
regarding Fizdale, the lineup, etc.  
81_Great_Dane : 10/17/2019 2:02 pm : link
I think last night's game was about getting a look at the guys whose roles for the beginning of the season aren't set. The point guards, for example.

These games aren't really about wins, especially with what amounts to a new roster. So I give him a pass on some of that.

As for his schemes, I can't tell at this point. Maybe later in the season. I think he was hired to develop the young guys. At some point, the coach won't be expected to be a tutor; he'll be expected to win games. Fizdale may not be the guy for that. We'll see.
RE: This makes sense to me  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14631548 Pep22 said:
Quote:
Ntlikina + Dotson

for

Kennard + Frazier


Decent proposal


Speaking of which, Detroit has drafted pretty poorly the last few years. Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard, Henry Ellenson...
RJ  
Carl in CT : 10/17/2019 2:04 pm : link
Would be great if he was a big man. Has super skills are the basket with both hands and I feel will be a 8 rebound a game guard (exceptional) that being said with all that skill a 50 year old has a better outside shooting eye than he does. In regards to Frank (when I said he deserved to start before his pretty good 4th last night) I was expecting to get crucified. Kid plays hard. Problem is folks we can’t have a PG and a SG on the floor at the same time who can’t shoot. You can get away with one but not both. UGH.
RE: RE: This makes sense to me  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14631722 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14631548 Pep22 said:


Quote:


Ntlikina + Dotson

for

Kennard + Frazier



Decent proposal


Speaking of which, Detroit has drafted pretty poorly the last few years. Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard, Henry Ellenson...


Anak,
Considering Kennard went 12th and is only 23 he's more of a hit than a miss. Career .85 WS/48, career 40% from 3. I suspect he's on his way to a long and productive NBA career with his skill set.
Maybe they develop faster  
idiotsavant : 10/17/2019 2:12 pm : link
Within lineups that make sense is all I'm suggesting
RE: RE: RE: This makes sense to me  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14631734 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 14631722 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14631548 Pep22 said:


Quote:


Ntlikina + Dotson

for

Kennard + Frazier



Decent proposal


Speaking of which, Detroit has drafted pretty poorly the last few years. Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard, Henry Ellenson...



Anak,
Considering Kennard went 12th and is only 23 he's more of a hit than a miss. Career .85 WS/48, career 40% from 3. I suspect he's on his way to a long and productive NBA career with his skill set.



Isn't he coming off the bench? I thought Bruce Brown (who blows also) is starting at the 2 for them.
It's pre season but I hate most of what Fizdale is doing  
Torrag : 10/17/2019 2:14 pm : link
Both with the lineup and playstyle.
RE: It's pre season but I hate most of what Fizdale is doing  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14631740 Torrag said:
Quote:
Both with the lineup and playstyle.


ok so what style would you play with this roster? what lineups would you use?
RE: RE: This makes sense to me  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 2:15 pm : link
In comment 14631722 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14631548 Pep22 said:


Quote:


Ntlikina + Dotson

for

Kennard + Frazier



Decent proposal


Speaking of which, Detroit has drafted pretty poorly the last few years. Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard, Henry Ellenson...


Wow, yeah that's a bad list. btw, did you see what Nick Nurse said about Stanley Johnson? He roasted him for being lazy, ill-prepared etc.
people who complain about iso  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 2:16 pm : link
do you watch the rest of the nba? everyone runs a ton of iso
RE: regarding Fizdale, the lineup, etc.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/17/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14631720 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
I think last night's game was about getting a look at the guys whose roles for the beginning of the season aren't set. The point guards, for example.

These games aren't really about wins, especially with what amounts to a new roster. So I give him a pass on some of that.


Kind of sad some people can't recognize that preseason games can be used for this purpose.
oh come the fuck on  
Greg from LI : 10/17/2019 2:17 pm : link
TWO Dookies on the team? One wasn't bad enough? Christ
He  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 2:17 pm : link
is coming off the bench. But he went 12th, in that spot a good shooter with a WS/48 of .85 going into his age 23 season isn't a bad outcome. The next 5 picks Mitchell (stud that a ton of teams goofed on), Adebayo, Justin Jackson, Justin Patton.
RE: people who complain about iso  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 2:17 pm : link
In comment 14631743 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
do you watch the rest of the nba? everyone runs a ton of iso


Yeah, because they have the players who can do that consistently. The Knicks need an offense. Stop comparing us to the rest of the NBA. We're not.
RE: RE: RE: This makes sense to me  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 2:19 pm : link
In comment 14631742 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631722 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14631548 Pep22 said:


Quote:


Ntlikina + Dotson

for

Kennard + Frazier



Decent proposal


Speaking of which, Detroit has drafted pretty poorly the last few years. Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard, Henry Ellenson...



Wow, yeah that's a bad list. btw, did you see what Nick Nurse said about Stanley Johnson? He roasted him for being lazy, ill-prepared etc.


Stanimal has been a total bust but it sounds like coach speak trying to light a fire under the asses of the new young newbies


"When TSN’s Josh Lewenberg asked Nick Nurse if Johnson and Hollis-Jefferson are contributing to the team’s defensive identity, the Raptors head coach had some pretty harsh criticism:

“Nope, nope, nope. Those guys have not understood A) how hard we play, B) our schemes, that defense is a priority for them. We’ve got some work to do with that crew. I tell them there’s a couple spots open come Tuesday night if somebody wants them. And I keep telling [them] show me you’re going to play defense, show me you’re going to play hard, show me you understand our coverages. And then whatever you do on the other end you’re going to get opportunities just because of who you’re on the floor with and they’ll come to you. You don’t have to come down and occupy 95 percent of your mind with how you’re going to break down and get your next shot. It’s not going to get you on the floor right now. So we’ve got work to do. We’ve got to find who’s going to blend in quickly defensively with this crew.”"
Fizdale hasn't run an offense  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 2:21 pm : link
all last season, summer league, and so far pre-season.

In a professional field we call that a trend.

Why would you not want to run an offense during warm up games to see what works and what doesn't?
RE: RE: It's pre season but I hate most of what Fizdale is doing  
Pep22 : 10/17/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14631741 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631740 Torrag said:


Quote:


Both with the lineup and playstyle.



ok so what style would you play with this roster? what lineups would you use?


You're not asking me but I'll answer the question:

BIGs (96 minutes):

Randle 32 minutes
Robinson 28
Portis 20
Gibson 10
Morris 6

SF:

Morris 22
Knox 26

SG:

RJB 28
Trier 20
I would not give Trier's minutes to Ellington and I am frustrated that Trier hasn't been in the mix.

PG:

Not sure how this will shake out because all three have major holes in their games.
RE: RE: people who complain about iso  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14631747 LawrenceTaylor56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631743 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


do you watch the rest of the nba? everyone runs a ton of iso



Yeah, because they have the players who can do that consistently. The Knicks need an offense. Stop comparing us to the rest of the NBA. We're not.


i mean they did have 22 points on 32 made field goals so ball did move..

and post ups for randle or morris is not iso
RE: RE: RE: It's pre season but I hate most of what Fizdale is doing  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14631755 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631741 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14631740 Torrag said:


Quote:


Both with the lineup and playstyle.



ok so what style would you play with this roster? what lineups would you use?



You're not asking me but I'll answer the question:

BIGs (96 minutes):

Randle 32 minutes
Robinson 28
Portis 20
Gibson 10
Morris 6

SF:

Morris 22
Knox 26

SG:

RJB 28
Trier 20
I would not give Trier's minutes to Ellington and I am frustrated that Trier hasn't been in the mix.

PG:

Not sure how this will shake out because all three have major holes in their games.


I agree on trier but i see the value in ellington, him just being on the court spreads the floor..

so basically you would have the same lineups fiz has been using
RE: RE: RE: people who complain about iso  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14631759 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631747 LawrenceTaylor56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14631743 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


do you watch the rest of the nba? everyone runs a ton of iso



Yeah, because they have the players who can do that consistently. The Knicks need an offense. Stop comparing us to the rest of the NBA. We're not.



i mean they did have 22 points on 32 made field goals so ball did move..

and post ups for randle or morris is not iso


22 assists
RE: people who complain about iso  
yatqb : 10/17/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14631743 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
do you watch the rest of the nba? everyone runs a ton of iso


We don't have the shooting or the quickness to run ISO well. We're a bunch of mismatched parts.
RE: RE: people who complain about iso  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 2:28 pm : link
In comment 14631762 yatqb said:
Quote:
In comment 14631743 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


do you watch the rest of the nba? everyone runs a ton of iso



We don't have the shooting or the quickness to run ISO well. We're a bunch of mismatched parts.


post ups are not iso...

and the bigs actually fit together, portis and gibson are a good match and randle and mitch are a good match..

1 3 ppint shooter in both those pairings..

morris shot 40 percent from 3 last year..

the problem is not the fromt court, the bsck court has to have at least 1 guy emerge as a good shooter
RE: RE: RE: This makes sense to me  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 2:29 pm : link
In comment 14631742 Pep22 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631722 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14631548 Pep22 said:


Quote:


Ntlikina + Dotson

for

Kennard + Frazier



Decent proposal


Speaking of which, Detroit has drafted pretty poorly the last few years. Stanley Johnson, Luke Kennard, Henry Ellenson...



Wow, yeah that's a bad list. btw, did you see what Nick Nurse said about Stanley Johnson? He roasted him for being lazy, ill-prepared etc.


Dan LOVED the Stanimal :)
RE: oh come the fuck on  
Anakim : 10/17/2019 2:30 pm : link
In comment 14631745 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
TWO Dookies on the team? One wasn't bad enough? Christ


He'll fill the quota left by Lance Thomas
ny16, I was talking about the team as a whole.  
yatqb : 10/17/2019 2:35 pm : link
I've rooted for this team forever, but this isn't a pretty group.
I mean. As team with one "110%' star  
idiotsavant : 10/17/2019 2:37 pm : link
One "87%" stat and a pile of "70s". It might be easy to coach. Role players feed the stars. Play D. Shoot 3s.

Give a coach ten "80%" players and you can win, but it probably is a much more complex task that requires an old school nuts and bolts practicality with regards to putting together puzzle pieces.

Have we seen that? I'm not knowledgeable in basketball, but it seems random.
RE: ny16, I was talking about the team as a whole.  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14631768 yatqb said:
Quote:
I've rooted for this team forever, but this isn't a pretty group.


what did you expect, they told you how they were going to play, it is going tl be bully ball, when you are bigger than most teams you are not going to try to outgun them..

the knicks are going to muddy the game, post ups and try to slow the pace..
I agree, idiotsavant. There seems to be no rhyme or reason  
yatqb : 10/17/2019 2:40 pm : link
for how Fizdale selects floor time, and I'd go as far as to say that we don't have a bunch of 80s, it's more like a few 80s and a whole bunch of 50s with huge deficits in their individual games.
I think the potential is there to be competitive most nights  
Mike in NJ : 10/17/2019 2:49 pm : link
but agree with most that it's not going to happen with the lineups Fizdale looks to want to run out there.

I'm sorry, but I don't think Bobby Portis deserve more than like 5-10 minutes per night, but it looks like Fizdale wants to give him significant run. Robinson and Gibson should be getting all of the minutes at the 5. Give 28 to Mitch and 20 to Gibson, if Robinson gets in to foul trouble then that's when Portis should get more time.

At the 4 Randle is obviously going to get the bulk of the time, and I would like to see Morris get significant time there as well. Knox should be getting 30 minutes per night at the 3, which in order for that to happen Morris is going to have to spend a lot of time at the 4.

Backcourt needs to be a split between Barrett, Frank, DSJ and Trier.

Ideally the rotation would be split like this:

Center
Robinson 28 min.
Gibson 20 min.

PF
Randle 30 min.
Morris 15 min.
Portis 3 min.

SF
Knox 30 min.
Morris 15 min.
Barrett 3 min.

SG
Barrett 28 min.
Trier 20 min.

PG
Ntilikina 28 min.
Smith Jr. 20 min.

Barrett reminds me of  
JPinstripes : 10/17/2019 2:51 pm : link
DeMar DeRozan - 4 time all-star.
Comparing Barrett to Earl Monore  
arniefez : 10/17/2019 2:54 pm : link
is almost as hilarious as comparing Jesus Montero to Mickey Mantle. Not as funny but in the conversation. I think Barrett will have a better NBA career than Montero did a MLB career. But it's still a keeper. Earl Monroe. Damn that's funny.
RE: RE: ny16, I was talking about the team as a whole.  
yatqb : 10/17/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14631772 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631768 yatqb said:


Quote:


I've rooted for this team forever, but this isn't a pretty group.



what did you expect, they told you how they were going to play, it is going tl be bully ball, when you are bigger than most teams you are not going to try to outgun them..

the knicks are going to muddy the game, post ups and try to slow the pace..


I expected a crappy team that has to play slowdown and post up to stay in games, but can't hang in for the long haul with teams that can hit their shots at a more regular pace than us...which is gonna happen most nights. I'm not saying anything remarkable here. Bully ball is not gonna win us a playoff spot or make games enjoyable to watch, because most nights we're not going to hit those critical shots that are the difference between wins and losses.

And it's also gonna be ugly to watch. Those Detroit teams, and the Knicks with Oakley, actually had stars who could do more than throw their weight around. They were actually fun to watch. We don't have that kind of talent and we won't be fun to watch.

I hope I'm wrong, but SMH, I don't think so,.
People do not like watching  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 3:13 pm : link
an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably
RJ is s shooter  
Vanzetti : 10/17/2019 4:05 pm : link
He should take the shot whenever he has it. Over time he will learn when to pass on a particular shot. But his rookie season? Shoot it. Just like Knox did last year

RE: Barrett reminds me of  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14631784 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
DeMar DeRozan - 4 time all-star.


DemArt DeRozan is an A++ pure athlete.
RE: People do not like watching  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 4:54 pm : link
In comment 14631802 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably


I'm already dreading it. Morris is going to be chucking...
Fizdale is going to have his hands full with all these goes pretty much on walk years...
Ball hogs.  
xman : 10/17/2019 5:17 pm : link
not enough movement with passing. layers not complementing each other yet. Maybe they will but from the looks of it when Randle starts dribbling its over. He is going to shoot . same for others. So a poor shooting team to go along with a poor passing team
RE: Ball hogs.  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14631875 xman said:
Quote:
not enough movement with passing. layers not complementing each other yet. Maybe they will but from the looks of it when Randle starts dribbling its over. He is going to shoot . same for others. So a poor shooting team to go along with a poor passing team


he had 20 points on 12 shots, how is that a ballhog? he is a very good passer, averaged 3.5 assists per game last year..

calling randle a ballhog is laughable
RE: RE: People do not like watching  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14631858 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14631802 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably



I'm already dreading it. Morris is going to be chucking...
Fizdale is going to have his hands full with all these goes pretty much on walk years...


I dont think so, he is 29, he is what he is, he may have a little bigger role than hr normaly has but i dont see him just taking the ball and shooting 20 times a night
If Fizdale is any kind of a coach...  
manh george : 10/17/2019 5:33 pm : link
he will take advantage of the Knicks' impressive depth to insist that players:

--defend the 3
--push the ball, hard, in the open floor,
--keep the ball moving in offensive sets.

With all of that depth, he can tell players that don't do all of the above that their minutes will be cut sharply.

But will he? Dunno.

At PG, we don't know yet whether Smith's shooting is much better after a summer of working on it. If it is, the starting spot is his. If not, not.

Wrt Frank, his shooting problem is in his brain, not his body. He was a great shooter in the under-18 Euro championships. Why would it disappear?
RE: People do not like watching  
steve in ky : 10/17/2019 5:34 pm : link
In comment 14631802 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably


If they win plenty of people will like it. The fan base is so starved for a winning team I really doubt too many would complain about style if they achieve any sort of success in the process. the problem is they likely aren't quite there yet so people will complain.
Not a good passing  
xman : 10/17/2019 5:37 pm : link
Its not just one guy Randle. When certain guys put the ball on the floor its over. It becomes one on one. Like Carmelo days. Lets see how the team proceeds. Barrett passes well and maybe Frank
RE: Not a good passing  
steve in ky : 10/17/2019 5:42 pm : link
In comment 14631891 xman said:
Quote:
Its not just one guy Randle. When certain guys put the ball on the floor its over. It becomes one on one. Like Carmelo days. Lets see how the team proceeds. Barrett passes well and maybe Frank


That's the root of the issue. It's not so much passing it in to a big as it is that they aren't often enough looking for the open man to pass it back out to when the defense collapses around them.
RE: Not a good passing  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 5:56 pm : link
In comment 14631891 xman said:
Quote:
Its not just one guy Randle. When certain guys put the ball on the floor its over. It becomes one on one. Like Carmelo days. Lets see how the team proceeds. Barrett passes well and maybe Frank


randle is one of the better passing bigs in the nba, what are you talking about?
When GS ruled the world they not only shot the lights out  
xman : 10/17/2019 5:57 pm : link
they passed the rock like it was kryptonite. The 69 Knicks likewise could shoot and pass.

This loser team can't shoot and do not work together to get an open man look. I hope they improve as they are all new to each other but ball hoggery is a tough habit to overcome.

On the plus side I do see a modicum of improvement for Frank. But he was starting so low to begin with it means little. Saw him cross over dribble finish a drive and has a bit smoother release.

Hope that Knox BJ and Smith develop and become terrific players. That our salvation
Sure, Barrett is more athletic than, say, me, but not when he’s  
Jim in Hoboken : 10/17/2019 5:58 pm : link
compared to other NBA SF’s, nevermind SG’s. I’d even put him below Klay Thompson or a Rashard Lewis, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be good. It’s just hard to envision right now since he still is an inconsistent shooter. You don’t have to be vertically explosive (look at Young vs DSJ) but thus far I am not seeing the short area bursts and change of direction movement skills, which Williams has in spades at 285 lbs, that would allow him to be a consistent play maker. I am surprised he’s been able to finish below the rim on his power drives thus far. Like I said, I liken him to Paul Pierce as the ceiling, which wouldn’t be bad at all. He has ways to go though.
One thing that has bothered me in the preseason so far  
Chris L. : 10/17/2019 6:00 pm : link
is the lack of improvement in Robinson. He doesn't look like he has gained any strength. Was getting pushed around and outfought for rebounds all night last night despite being the taller player. Also looks like his offensive game has not progressed at all. thought there would be a noticeable jump up in his game and so far I am not seeing it.
RE: When GS ruled the world they not only shot the lights out  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14631898 xman said:
Quote:
they passed the rock like it was kryptonite. The 69 Knicks likewise could shoot and pass.

This loser team can't shoot and do not work together to get an open man look. I hope they improve as they are all new to each other but ball hoggery is a tough habit to overcome.

On the plus side I do see a modicum of improvement for Frank. But he was starting so low to begin with it means little. Saw him cross over dribble finish a drive and has a bit smoother release.

Hope that Knox BJ and Smith develop and become terrific players. That our salvation


i am so glad someone mentioned the warriors..

they had 2 of the greatest shooters of all time, 1 of if not the best scorers of all time and draymond who just stood at the top of the key and fed evwryone..

please stop in thinking every team can play that way, it is moronic to ckmpare any team to then
how good they goimg to be thisnyear  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:03 pm : link
without klay and durant?
if you say Randle is a good passer I will take your word for it  
xman : 10/17/2019 6:05 pm : link
but what I noticed is that once he puts it on the floor its a done deal,. Even
when they collapse on him he doesn't seem to be aware of teammates.
RE: if you say Randle is a good passer I will take your word for it  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14631906 xman said:
Quote:
but what I noticed is that once he puts it on the floor its a done deal,. Even
when they collapse on him he doesn't seem to be aware of teammates.


funny he had 6 assists in the 2nd preseason game..

he also took 12 shots and scored 20, ill take that every singlr night, he is your best player he is going to take the most shots, offense will be run through him
GS passed the ball  
xman : 10/17/2019 6:13 pm : link
and they were a great shooting team . Likely made them better. They played as a team.

Maybe the Knicks don't need to pass because they stink and no one will make the basket even if the receive a pass???? Hopefully they are in a growing stage
RE: GS passed the ball  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14631909 xman said:
Quote:
and they were a great shooting team . Likely made them better. They played as a team.

Maybe the Knicks don't need to pass because they stink and no one will make the basket even if the receive a pass???? Hopefully they are in a growing stage


22 assists on 32 made shots is not bad at all..

and stop setting the standard as tbe warriors, they had 3 of the best players in the game on their team, they are an anomally
There is no other team in the nba  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:27 pm : link
that could play like those warriors
69 70 knicks passed well  
xman : 10/17/2019 7:27 pm : link
But assists need a basket. These Knicks probably miss a lot of oen shots so even a nice pass will not register an assist. Lets see where they go and if they become cohesive

You have mention a few times that Randle is a good passer. I don't think you mean like a LBJ. I pray that he is flexible enough to pass out of the double team rather then hoist a shot when they collapse on him
Warriors?  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 7:31 pm : link
I’ll be the first guy to criticize the Knicks but comparing them to the recent warriors is absurd. That is one of the best basketball teams to ever play with atleast 4 hall of famers and two incredible passers- AI and Livingston.

Talk about a ridiculous comparison.
RE: Knicks  
Anakim : 10/18/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14631615 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
signed Zak Irvin.



And they just waived him


We want Jontay!
Any interest in Alfonzo McKinnie?  
Anakim : 10/18/2019 12:42 pm : link
He was waived and we're first in waiver priority
RE: Any interest in Alfonzo McKinnie?  
Enzo : 10/18/2019 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14632760 Anakim said:
Quote:
He was waived and we're first in waiver priority

I believe we would have to waive a guaranteed contract. Good thing we're paying Bullock to not play for a few months and then not even have a role when he comes back.
in non-Knicks news (although it affects tonight's game):  
Del Shofner : 10/18/2019 1:40 pm : link
"New Orleans Pelicans rookie Zion Williamson has avoided a severe injury to his right knee but is expected to miss a period of weeks to start the regular season, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski on Friday.

Williamson did not travel with the team to New York for Friday's preseason game against the Knicks and instead stayed back in New Orleans for further testing."

Sucks for Zion. He was having a great preseason. It does start to raise a question if he's injury prone (he missed almost all of summer league as well), but I suppose it's still a small sample size.
RE: in non-Knicks news (although it affects tonight's game):  
Jim in Fairfax : 10/18/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14632801 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
"New Orleans Pelicans rookie Zion Williamson has avoided a severe injury to his right knee but is expected to miss a period of weeks to start the regular season, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski on Friday.

Williamson did not travel with the team to New York for Friday's preseason game against the Knicks and instead stayed back in New Orleans for further testing."

Sucks for Zion. He was having a great preseason. It does start to raise a question if he's injury prone (he missed almost all of summer league as well), but I suppose it's still a small sample size.

It’s incredible that a guy his size can elevate the way does. But what goes up must come down. Can his lower body hold up?
Why sign  
Carl in CT : 10/18/2019 3:37 pm : link
Then waive? Could there be any reason to do this? Confused.
RE: Why sign  
Anakim : 10/18/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14632859 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Then waive? Could there be any reason to do this? Confused.


I think it's to ensure his rights at Westchester, but I'm not sure
RE: Why sign  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14632859 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Then waive? Could there be any reason to do this? Confused.


they sign him to exhibit 10 deal which in turn means hemakes an extea 50k if he signs knicks gleahue
I just feel like the Knicks  
idiotsavant : 10/18/2019 4:42 pm : link
Will keep on trying to use the usual ISO assholes and trade nili who at least moves the ball and plays D and seems to see the floor. Something to build on, make the other players better.

It's such a garbage league for so many teams.

It's not even entertaining or interesting.
From Begley  
TyreeHelmet : 10/18/2019 5:00 pm : link
There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.
RE: From Begley  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 5:11 pm : link
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.


i dont see how this is possible, who would it be? trier? all the other new guys have been in rotation for the preseason
RE: RE: From Begley  
Del Shofner : 10/18/2019 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14632920 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.



i dont see how this is possible, who would it be? trier? all the other new guys have been in rotation for the preseason


Or coming off injuries, as in Dotson's case. Only one I can see might be Trier.
RE: From Begley  
BigBlueShock : 10/18/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.

Gee, who would have seen this coming? What did they expect when they go out and sign about 10 guys to basically one or two year deals? All of these guys on short term deals are going to want to play for their next contract. From a team perspective, sure the depth sounds nice. But from a real world perspective, there are going to be a lot of players not happy with their roles. None of them think that it’s going to be THEM getting left out of the rotation, but it’s got to be somebody
RE: RE: From Begley  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14632947 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.


Gee, who would have seen this coming? What did they expect when they go out and sign about 10 guys to basically one or two year deals? All of these guys on short term deals are going to want to play for their next contract. From a team perspective, sure the depth sounds nice. But from a real world perspective, there are going to be a lot of players not happy with their roles. None of them think that it’s going to be THEM getting left out of the rotation, but it’s got to be somebody


but so far none them have been out of the rotation, so you logic is flawed
RE: RE: RE: From Begley  
BigBlueShock : 10/18/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14632951 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14632947 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.


Gee, who would have seen this coming? What did they expect when they go out and sign about 10 guys to basically one or two year deals? All of these guys on short term deals are going to want to play for their next contract. From a team perspective, sure the depth sounds nice. But from a real world perspective, there are going to be a lot of players not happy with their roles. None of them think that it’s going to be THEM getting left out of the rotation, but it’s got to be somebody



but so far none them have been out of the rotation, so you logic is flawed

Wtf? My logic is flawed? How so? I replied directly to a post saying that the grumbling has already started. And whether you believe that or not, it’s absolutely to be expected with a bunch of guys on “prove it” deals. Maybe you think everybody is going to be perfectly happy with their roles all season long but that’s just not realistic. Call it flawed logical all you want.
But why would a player who is playing  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 6:39 pm : link
complain about their role and lets look who they signed..

Randle: starter and probably their bedt player..

Portis: was told before he signed he was coming off the bench and has always been a bench big..

Gibson: vet big he knows his role coming off the bench..

Ellington: Vet shooter off the bench..

Morris: starter and finisher..

Payton: maybe the only guy who may complain depending how many minutes but most likely bench point guard backing up the starter..

So which one of the guys they signed is going tonj complain about thejr role if they are playing the role they have always played? these are not guys fighting to stay in the league
..  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 6:50 pm : link
Smith, ellington, rj, randle, robinson starting..

interested to see knox and morris playing together..

Bench probably payton, trier, knox, morris and portis
RJ looking good  
shyster : 10/18/2019 9:00 pm : link
7-8 from field.

Seems to do better without Morris on the floor.
RE: RJ looking good  
bceagle05 : 10/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14633145 shyster said:
Quote:
7-8 from field.

Seems to do better without Morris on the floor.

Glad to hear! My attention is on the Yanks, but RJ looks like a pro already.
the woman ref i dont know her name  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 9:57 pm : link
but she is awful, she interjects herself into every call and is usually wrong
Frank  
GMEN46 : 10/18/2019 10:25 pm : link
Has to start at PG and play 30 mins. Smith jr and Payton are so bad defensively along with most of the rest of the team.
Lol Trier  
widmerseyebrow : 10/18/2019 10:38 pm : link
.
Randle is obviously going to be very frustrating a lot...  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:38 pm : link
but he's also relentless and has a ton of wow plays. Showing a pretty sweet stroke from 3 considering he's a big, physical bull-in-a-china-shop type esp coming in to the league

RJB w/ a big play late...116-112. Big energy at MSG in the 4th. Trier cuts it to 2...
RE: Lol Trier  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14633267 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
.

Ha i was on time delay, then after the first miss and reb kinda saw what was coming. Still he shot the 3 pretty well last year

Missed FT so NYK gets a shot w/ 15s
lol jesus  
widmerseyebrow : 10/18/2019 10:42 pm : link
Picked a hell of a time to tune into the preseason.
Wut I just say about Randle? lol  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:45 pm : link
In 2-3 straight moments, gets a steal down 1, takes the ball and drives but tries making a play between 2-3 defenders so loses it...
Prolly shoulda been a lane violation on Mitch  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:46 pm : link
but it's preseason...and still thanks for the no call!

3s down 2. Most exciting preseason game EVER
sorry down 1  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:47 pm : link
.
fucking surreal ending  
widmerseyebrow : 10/18/2019 10:48 pm : link
.
aaaaand Randle thumb up his ass  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:48 pm : link
Very Melo-esque in not having any clue how much time is left on the clock
randle barrett and morris will be a nice trio  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 10:57 pm : link
barrett can lead that second unit when morris or randle go to the bench...

You can tell rj likes the spotlight, he wants the ball..

Smith had some bad momemnts but he finished with 9, 9 boards and 6 assists 2 assists and was +6..still a little rusty..

Randle is going to carry this team offensively you can tell he was holding back in the preseason a little bit trying to get everyone involved..

Players are going to have to learn jow to move when he posts up..
It's  
Jon in NYC : 10/19/2019 8:57 am : link
clear they need to draft a PG next year. Give me Nico Mannion.
RE: It's  
Mike in NJ : 10/19/2019 10:45 am : link
In comment 14633343 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
clear they need to draft a PG next year. Give me Nico Mannion.


I’m optimistic about Knox’s potential, but having Gilgeous-Alexander would’ve solved a lot of issues.
RE: RE: It's  
Jon in NYC : 10/19/2019 11:30 am : link
In comment 14633385 Mike in NJ said:
Quote:
In comment 14633343 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


clear they need to draft a PG next year. Give me Nico Mannion.



I’m optimistic about Knox’s potential, but having Gilgeous-Alexander would’ve solved a lot of issues.


I'd trade Knox, Frank, DSJ for SGA but we'd get laughed out of the room.
For what it's worth....  
JPinstripes : 10/19/2019 12:21 pm : link
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
13m
There were only seven players who averaged at least 15 points, 6 rebounds and 3 assists per game in the preseason:

James Harden, Luka Doncic, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Pascal Siakam, Karl-Anthony Towns,

And two Knicks:
RJ Barrett and Julius Randle
RE: For what it's worth....  
Jon in NYC : 10/19/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14633433 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
Tommy Beer
@TommyBeer
·
13m
There were only seven players who averaged at least 15 points, 6 rebounds and 3 assists per game in the preseason:

James Harden, Luka Doncic, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Pascal Siakam, Karl-Anthony Towns,

And two Knicks:
RJ Barrett and Julius Randle


Do you know who also led the preseason in minutes per game?

RJ Barrett and Julius Randle.
Not being discussed here so far that I can see is that Barrett  
Del Shofner : 10/19/2019 12:48 pm : link
played all 36 minutes last night at the 3. Ellington and Trier split the 2 with 24 minutes each there.

I think Barrett is already the best *all-around* player on the team, in that he's got a really good sense for all phases of the game IMO. Obviously his outside shooting needs to improve for him to be as effective as possible.

Some other thoughts -

I think Frank is our best PG. May not be saying much, but Smith looks bad to me (lingering injury effect?) and Payton looks OK but Frank's better all-around IMO.

Mitch is a beast on D, but if we don't defend the 3-point shot better than last night it won't matter much.

Portis has crazy eyes like - who was it, Kurt Thomas? But he's not bad as a second team player.

Remind me again why Bullock was signed?  
Anakim : 10/19/2019 5:26 pm : link
Might as well claim McKinnie and waive Bullock
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