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NFT: 10/17 Knicks Talk: The Battle for PG

LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/17/2019 6:00 am
Hawks: 100
Knicks: 96


Once again, I watch a Knicks game in hopes I see good ball movement, crisp passes, guys cutting, finding the open man. Our offense has no desire to find the advantage. Instead, Knicks and Fizdale seem content on leaning back onto the bad habit of ISO-ball bailing us out.

The defense was actually not that bad this game.

Couple Notes

David Fizdale: Worst starting lineup we could have possibly did tonight. Portis, Randle and Morris as our starting front court should never see another minute again this season. Still questionable X's and O's coach. Another night giving RJ another 40 minute game in preseason. Much like Knox last year, expect him to run RJ into the ground by January.

Frank Ntilikina: 1-4 2 Points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists. You'd almost have to be a basketball purist to appreciate what he does defensively. He ate Trae Youngs lunch quite a few times, altering his shot with his length, forcing him to pass out of a few easy buckets he was hitting earlier, adding a couple nice blocks to his night. He is an average defender with the ability to show glimpses of above average defending. I think right now he's at his floor. Offensively, he's still a complete black hole if you're looking for points. He moves the ball nice and tries to set someone up with a shot. Unfortunately, he plays in an offense that doesn't suit his style. He's not ISO Frank. He should be the starting PG. IMO

Dennis Smith JR:First game back after sitting out previously with a lower back injury. First observation? He's rusty. Picked up two quick fouls in the opening minutest that sent him to the bench. Not a great shooting night for him either. 1-5 for 4 points.

Julius Randle: So far his best night as a Knick. Aside from two step back jumpers (Yes, two..wtf), he finished with 20 points, 8 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks. His defense is still not worth talking about.

RJ Barrett: 4-14, 12 points, 7 rebounds, 6 assists, 2 steals and a block. It's going to be an up and down year in regards with his game to game efficiency. If Fizdale can tap into his inner-coaching and somehow teach RJ to reign it in a bit on nights he isn't feeling it, then he could be special this year. He's a plus playmaker, can bully his way into the paint, and actually finish. He did miss quite a few easy layups though. I'm chalking that up to youth. The flashes are there. You can see it. Even had a nice game defensively.

Kevin Knox: He looks like he's ready to be the first of our young guys to make the big jump this year. He looks much more fluid and confident. He moves the ball well, and stretches the floor. His shot looks good. He should be getting more minutes per game this season.

Last thoughts: This team is a 25-30 win team. They aren't well coached, or even coached it seems. I don't think Fizdale is the guy who can tap into and get the best out of every player. This team better find a way to keep it close, because we don't have the shooting to come back from double digits night in and night out. Speaking of keeping it close, I don't think we have one guy on our roster who I would trust to take the final shot.

DNP Coaches Decision for Payton, Dotson and Trier tonight.

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RE: RE: ny16, I was talking about the team as a whole.  
yatqb : 10/17/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14631772 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631768 yatqb said:


Quote:


I've rooted for this team forever, but this isn't a pretty group.



what did you expect, they told you how they were going to play, it is going tl be bully ball, when you are bigger than most teams you are not going to try to outgun them..

the knicks are going to muddy the game, post ups and try to slow the pace..


I expected a crappy team that has to play slowdown and post up to stay in games, but can't hang in for the long haul with teams that can hit their shots at a more regular pace than us...which is gonna happen most nights. I'm not saying anything remarkable here. Bully ball is not gonna win us a playoff spot or make games enjoyable to watch, because most nights we're not going to hit those critical shots that are the difference between wins and losses.

And it's also gonna be ugly to watch. Those Detroit teams, and the Knicks with Oakley, actually had stars who could do more than throw their weight around. They were actually fun to watch. We don't have that kind of talent and we won't be fun to watch.

I hope I'm wrong, but SMH, I don't think so,.
People do not like watching  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 3:13 pm : link
an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably
RJ is s shooter  
Vanzetti : 10/17/2019 4:05 pm : link
He should take the shot whenever he has it. Over time he will learn when to pass on a particular shot. But his rookie season? Shoot it. Just like Knox did last year

RE: Barrett reminds me of  
DanMetroMan : 10/17/2019 4:07 pm : link
In comment 14631784 JPinstripes said:
Quote:
DeMar DeRozan - 4 time all-star.


DemArt DeRozan is an A++ pure athlete.
RE: People do not like watching  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 4:54 pm : link
In comment 14631802 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably


I'm already dreading it. Morris is going to be chucking...
Fizdale is going to have his hands full with all these goes pretty much on walk years...
Ball hogs.  
xman : 10/17/2019 5:17 pm : link
not enough movement with passing. layers not complementing each other yet. Maybe they will but from the looks of it when Randle starts dribbling its over. He is going to shoot . same for others. So a poor shooting team to go along with a poor passing team
RE: Ball hogs.  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 5:22 pm : link
In comment 14631875 xman said:
Quote:
not enough movement with passing. layers not complementing each other yet. Maybe they will but from the looks of it when Randle starts dribbling its over. He is going to shoot . same for others. So a poor shooting team to go along with a poor passing team


he had 20 points on 12 shots, how is that a ballhog? he is a very good passer, averaged 3.5 assists per game last year..

calling randle a ballhog is laughable
RE: RE: People do not like watching  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14631858 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 14631802 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably



I'm already dreading it. Morris is going to be chucking...
Fizdale is going to have his hands full with all these goes pretty much on walk years...


I dont think so, he is 29, he is what he is, he may have a little bigger role than hr normaly has but i dont see him just taking the ball and shooting 20 times a night
If Fizdale is any kind of a coach...  
manh george : 10/17/2019 5:33 pm : link
he will take advantage of the Knicks' impressive depth to insist that players:

--defend the 3
--push the ball, hard, in the open floor,
--keep the ball moving in offensive sets.

With all of that depth, he can tell players that don't do all of the above that their minutes will be cut sharply.

But will he? Dunno.

At PG, we don't know yet whether Smith's shooting is much better after a summer of working on it. If it is, the starting spot is his. If not, not.

Wrt Frank, his shooting problem is in his brain, not his body. He was a great shooter in the under-18 Euro championships. Why would it disappear?
RE: People do not like watching  
steve in ky : 10/17/2019 5:34 pm : link
In comment 14631802 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
an offense run through a big, offense is going to run through randle and morris with barrett as the 3rx guy

It is how the team is built, will it be ugly at times? probably


If they win plenty of people will like it. The fan base is so starved for a winning team I really doubt too many would complain about style if they achieve any sort of success in the process. the problem is they likely aren't quite there yet so people will complain.
Not a good passing  
xman : 10/17/2019 5:37 pm : link
Its not just one guy Randle. When certain guys put the ball on the floor its over. It becomes one on one. Like Carmelo days. Lets see how the team proceeds. Barrett passes well and maybe Frank
RE: Not a good passing  
steve in ky : 10/17/2019 5:42 pm : link
In comment 14631891 xman said:
Quote:
Its not just one guy Randle. When certain guys put the ball on the floor its over. It becomes one on one. Like Carmelo days. Lets see how the team proceeds. Barrett passes well and maybe Frank


That's the root of the issue. It's not so much passing it in to a big as it is that they aren't often enough looking for the open man to pass it back out to when the defense collapses around them.
RE: Not a good passing  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 5:56 pm : link
In comment 14631891 xman said:
Quote:
Its not just one guy Randle. When certain guys put the ball on the floor its over. It becomes one on one. Like Carmelo days. Lets see how the team proceeds. Barrett passes well and maybe Frank


randle is one of the better passing bigs in the nba, what are you talking about?
When GS ruled the world they not only shot the lights out  
xman : 10/17/2019 5:57 pm : link
they passed the rock like it was kryptonite. The 69 Knicks likewise could shoot and pass.

This loser team can't shoot and do not work together to get an open man look. I hope they improve as they are all new to each other but ball hoggery is a tough habit to overcome.

On the plus side I do see a modicum of improvement for Frank. But he was starting so low to begin with it means little. Saw him cross over dribble finish a drive and has a bit smoother release.

Hope that Knox BJ and Smith develop and become terrific players. That our salvation
Sure, Barrett is more athletic than, say, me, but not when he’s  
Jim in Hoboken : 10/17/2019 5:58 pm : link
compared to other NBA SF’s, nevermind SG’s. I’d even put him below Klay Thompson or a Rashard Lewis, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be good. It’s just hard to envision right now since he still is an inconsistent shooter. You don’t have to be vertically explosive (look at Young vs DSJ) but thus far I am not seeing the short area bursts and change of direction movement skills, which Williams has in spades at 285 lbs, that would allow him to be a consistent play maker. I am surprised he’s been able to finish below the rim on his power drives thus far. Like I said, I liken him to Paul Pierce as the ceiling, which wouldn’t be bad at all. He has ways to go though.
One thing that has bothered me in the preseason so far  
Chris L. : 10/17/2019 6:00 pm : link
is the lack of improvement in Robinson. He doesn't look like he has gained any strength. Was getting pushed around and outfought for rebounds all night last night despite being the taller player. Also looks like his offensive game has not progressed at all. thought there would be a noticeable jump up in his game and so far I am not seeing it.
RE: When GS ruled the world they not only shot the lights out  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:02 pm : link
In comment 14631898 xman said:
Quote:
they passed the rock like it was kryptonite. The 69 Knicks likewise could shoot and pass.

This loser team can't shoot and do not work together to get an open man look. I hope they improve as they are all new to each other but ball hoggery is a tough habit to overcome.

On the plus side I do see a modicum of improvement for Frank. But he was starting so low to begin with it means little. Saw him cross over dribble finish a drive and has a bit smoother release.

Hope that Knox BJ and Smith develop and become terrific players. That our salvation


i am so glad someone mentioned the warriors..

they had 2 of the greatest shooters of all time, 1 of if not the best scorers of all time and draymond who just stood at the top of the key and fed evwryone..

please stop in thinking every team can play that way, it is moronic to ckmpare any team to then
how good they goimg to be thisnyear  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:03 pm : link
without klay and durant?
if you say Randle is a good passer I will take your word for it  
xman : 10/17/2019 6:05 pm : link
but what I noticed is that once he puts it on the floor its a done deal,. Even
when they collapse on him he doesn't seem to be aware of teammates.
RE: if you say Randle is a good passer I will take your word for it  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14631906 xman said:
Quote:
but what I noticed is that once he puts it on the floor its a done deal,. Even
when they collapse on him he doesn't seem to be aware of teammates.


funny he had 6 assists in the 2nd preseason game..

he also took 12 shots and scored 20, ill take that every singlr night, he is your best player he is going to take the most shots, offense will be run through him
GS passed the ball  
xman : 10/17/2019 6:13 pm : link
and they were a great shooting team . Likely made them better. They played as a team.

Maybe the Knicks don't need to pass because they stink and no one will make the basket even if the receive a pass???? Hopefully they are in a growing stage
RE: GS passed the ball  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14631909 xman said:
Quote:
and they were a great shooting team . Likely made them better. They played as a team.

Maybe the Knicks don't need to pass because they stink and no one will make the basket even if the receive a pass???? Hopefully they are in a growing stage


22 assists on 32 made shots is not bad at all..

and stop setting the standard as tbe warriors, they had 3 of the best players in the game on their team, they are an anomally
There is no other team in the nba  
nygiants16 : 10/17/2019 6:27 pm : link
that could play like those warriors
69 70 knicks passed well  
xman : 10/17/2019 7:27 pm : link
But assists need a basket. These Knicks probably miss a lot of oen shots so even a nice pass will not register an assist. Lets see where they go and if they become cohesive

You have mention a few times that Randle is a good passer. I don't think you mean like a LBJ. I pray that he is flexible enough to pass out of the double team rather then hoist a shot when they collapse on him
Warriors?  
TyreeHelmet : 10/17/2019 7:31 pm : link
I’ll be the first guy to criticize the Knicks but comparing them to the recent warriors is absurd. That is one of the best basketball teams to ever play with atleast 4 hall of famers and two incredible passers- AI and Livingston.

Talk about a ridiculous comparison.
RE: Knicks  
Anakim : 10/18/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14631615 Phil in LA said:
Quote:
signed Zak Irvin.



And they just waived him


We want Jontay!
Any interest in Alfonzo McKinnie?  
Anakim : 10/18/2019 12:42 pm : link
He was waived and we're first in waiver priority
RE: Any interest in Alfonzo McKinnie?  
Enzo : 10/18/2019 1:00 pm : link
In comment 14632760 Anakim said:
Quote:
He was waived and we're first in waiver priority

I believe we would have to waive a guaranteed contract. Good thing we're paying Bullock to not play for a few months and then not even have a role when he comes back.
in non-Knicks news (although it affects tonight's game):  
Del Shofner : 10/18/2019 1:40 pm : link
"New Orleans Pelicans rookie Zion Williamson has avoided a severe injury to his right knee but is expected to miss a period of weeks to start the regular season, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski on Friday.

Williamson did not travel with the team to New York for Friday's preseason game against the Knicks and instead stayed back in New Orleans for further testing."

Sucks for Zion. He was having a great preseason. It does start to raise a question if he's injury prone (he missed almost all of summer league as well), but I suppose it's still a small sample size.
RE: in non-Knicks news (although it affects tonight's game):  
Jim in Fairfax : 10/18/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14632801 Del Shofner said:
Quote:
"New Orleans Pelicans rookie Zion Williamson has avoided a severe injury to his right knee but is expected to miss a period of weeks to start the regular season, sources told ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski on Friday.

Williamson did not travel with the team to New York for Friday's preseason game against the Knicks and instead stayed back in New Orleans for further testing."

Sucks for Zion. He was having a great preseason. It does start to raise a question if he's injury prone (he missed almost all of summer league as well), but I suppose it's still a small sample size.

It’s incredible that a guy his size can elevate the way does. But what goes up must come down. Can his lower body hold up?
Why sign  
Carl in CT : 10/18/2019 3:37 pm : link
Then waive? Could there be any reason to do this? Confused.
RE: Why sign  
Anakim : 10/18/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14632859 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Then waive? Could there be any reason to do this? Confused.


I think it's to ensure his rights at Westchester, but I'm not sure
RE: Why sign  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14632859 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Then waive? Could there be any reason to do this? Confused.


they sign him to exhibit 10 deal which in turn means hemakes an extea 50k if he signs knicks gleahue
I just feel like the Knicks  
idiotsavant : 10/18/2019 4:42 pm : link
Will keep on trying to use the usual ISO assholes and trade nili who at least moves the ball and plays D and seems to see the floor. Something to build on, make the other players better.

It's such a garbage league for so many teams.

It's not even entertaining or interesting.
From Begley  
TyreeHelmet : 10/18/2019 5:00 pm : link
There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.
RE: From Begley  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 5:11 pm : link
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.


i dont see how this is possible, who would it be? trier? all the other new guys have been in rotation for the preseason
RE: RE: From Begley  
Del Shofner : 10/18/2019 5:36 pm : link
In comment 14632920 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.



i dont see how this is possible, who would it be? trier? all the other new guys have been in rotation for the preseason


Or coming off injuries, as in Dotson's case. Only one I can see might be Trier.
RE: From Begley  
BigBlueShock : 10/18/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.

Gee, who would have seen this coming? What did they expect when they go out and sign about 10 guys to basically one or two year deals? All of these guys on short term deals are going to want to play for their next contract. From a team perspective, sure the depth sounds nice. But from a real world perspective, there are going to be a lot of players not happy with their roles. None of them think that it’s going to be THEM getting left out of the rotation, but it’s got to be somebody
RE: RE: From Begley  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14632947 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.


Gee, who would have seen this coming? What did they expect when they go out and sign about 10 guys to basically one or two year deals? All of these guys on short term deals are going to want to play for their next contract. From a team perspective, sure the depth sounds nice. But from a real world perspective, there are going to be a lot of players not happy with their roles. None of them think that it’s going to be THEM getting left out of the rotation, but it’s got to be somebody


but so far none them have been out of the rotation, so you logic is flawed
RE: RE: RE: From Begley  
BigBlueShock : 10/18/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14632951 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14632947 BigBlueShock said:


Quote:


In comment 14632910 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


There has been some ‘early grumbling’ among some Knicks players about their role with the team, per
@IanBegley

Season hasn't even started yet.


Gee, who would have seen this coming? What did they expect when they go out and sign about 10 guys to basically one or two year deals? All of these guys on short term deals are going to want to play for their next contract. From a team perspective, sure the depth sounds nice. But from a real world perspective, there are going to be a lot of players not happy with their roles. None of them think that it’s going to be THEM getting left out of the rotation, but it’s got to be somebody



but so far none them have been out of the rotation, so you logic is flawed

Wtf? My logic is flawed? How so? I replied directly to a post saying that the grumbling has already started. And whether you believe that or not, it’s absolutely to be expected with a bunch of guys on “prove it” deals. Maybe you think everybody is going to be perfectly happy with their roles all season long but that’s just not realistic. Call it flawed logical all you want.
But why would a player who is playing  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 6:39 pm : link
complain about their role and lets look who they signed..

Randle: starter and probably their bedt player..

Portis: was told before he signed he was coming off the bench and has always been a bench big..

Gibson: vet big he knows his role coming off the bench..

Ellington: Vet shooter off the bench..

Morris: starter and finisher..

Payton: maybe the only guy who may complain depending how many minutes but most likely bench point guard backing up the starter..

So which one of the guys they signed is going tonj complain about thejr role if they are playing the role they have always played? these are not guys fighting to stay in the league
..  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 6:50 pm : link
Smith, ellington, rj, randle, robinson starting..

interested to see knox and morris playing together..

Bench probably payton, trier, knox, morris and portis
RJ looking good  
shyster : 10/18/2019 9:00 pm : link
7-8 from field.

Seems to do better without Morris on the floor.
RE: RJ looking good  
bceagle05 : 10/18/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14633145 shyster said:
Quote:
7-8 from field.

Seems to do better without Morris on the floor.

Glad to hear! My attention is on the Yanks, but RJ looks like a pro already.
the woman ref i dont know her name  
nygiants16 : 10/18/2019 9:57 pm : link
but she is awful, she interjects herself into every call and is usually wrong
Frank  
GMEN46 : 10/18/2019 10:25 pm : link
Has to start at PG and play 30 mins. Smith jr and Payton are so bad defensively along with most of the rest of the team.
Lol Trier  
widmerseyebrow : 10/18/2019 10:38 pm : link
.
Randle is obviously going to be very frustrating a lot...  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:38 pm : link
but he's also relentless and has a ton of wow plays. Showing a pretty sweet stroke from 3 considering he's a big, physical bull-in-a-china-shop type esp coming in to the league

RJB w/ a big play late...116-112. Big energy at MSG in the 4th. Trier cuts it to 2...
RE: Lol Trier  
ChaChing : 10/18/2019 10:40 pm : link
In comment 14633267 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
.

Ha i was on time delay, then after the first miss and reb kinda saw what was coming. Still he shot the 3 pretty well last year

Missed FT so NYK gets a shot w/ 15s
lol jesus  
widmerseyebrow : 10/18/2019 10:42 pm : link
Picked a hell of a time to tune into the preseason.
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