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2015 QB class...busts?

RC in MD : 10/17/2019 10:12 am
So it's been four seasons since Jameis Winston and Marcus Mariota went #1 and #2 overall in 2015 Draft. Both were Heisman Trophy winners and were pretty celebrated players coming out. While Winston has had brushes with the law, he's remained pretty healthy and haven't missed many games. Mariota, on the other hand, has been injury-prone and have missed some games. Both have been benched at times for their poor plays (Mariota being benched this week).

Also, I didn't realize that Garrett Grayson(3rd round by the Saints), Sean Mannion (3rd round by the Rams), Bryce Petty (4th round by the Jets) were the next three QBs drafted with not even a hint of success. Then you have Brett Hundley (5th round by the Packers) and Trevor Siemian (7th round by the Broncos), who are at least marginal backups.

So what are your thoughts on the 2015 QB class?

On a side note, this highlights just how difficult it is to find a franchise QB. I'm optimistic that we have found our franchise QB for the next 10+ years.
I think that draft as a whole was pretty shitty  
figgy2989 : 10/17/2019 10:18 am : link
Obviously as a Giants fan, that Flowers pick really sucked, but most of the league missed on their picks as well.

I mean who is the best player out of that draft, Melvin Gordon, Landon Collins?
If Chip Kelly has only gotten  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/17/2019 10:24 am : link
What he wanted, where would the Eagles be today?

I cant believe how much of a bust both top QBs have been. Winston was so good in college in a pro-offense and he just flashes in the NFL.
RE: I think that draft as a whole was pretty shitty  
RC in MD : 10/17/2019 10:25 am : link
In comment 14631515 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Obviously as a Giants fan, that Flowers pick really sucked, but most of the league missed on their picks as well.

I mean who is the best player out of that draft, Melvin Gordon, Landon Collins?


I have no clue what you're talking about. The NFL mistakenly didn't give us a 1st round pick for that draft. At least that's how I remember it.
Winston is the biggest conundrum  
Eli2020 : 10/17/2019 11:05 am : link
If you consider the overlap between last year's second half and this year's first half, the guy had like 5-6 TDs and a 150 QBR rating (estimated).

He has the goods, but when it comes to consistency, he's completely lacking.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/17/2019 11:22 am : link
Winston has a super low football IQ. He's got the ability and talent, but I see him make so many absolutely stupid throws and decisions on a fairly regular basis. He just seems like a guy who will always flash but never put it all together.

Last week I watched him completely lose track of a linebacker in underneath coverage and throw the ball right to him. He was locked in on someone running a crossing route and basically completely ignored the second level of the defense.

For every good play Winston makes, he makes an equally inexplicable one. If Arians can't get him right, no one will.
There's bbi'ers who prefer to start  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/17/2019 11:22 am : link
Crab legs over Eli, that's how far the unhinged Eli hatred is on bbi. Eli would be tearing it up slinging it to beastly weapons like Evans and Howard.

One positive of garbage Tanney signing, hopeful it's an indicator Eli trade is in the works.
RE: I think that draft as a whole was pretty shitty  
Mike Graves : 10/17/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14631515 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
Obviously as a Giants fan, that Flowers pick really sucked, but most of the league missed on their picks as well.

I mean who is the best player out of that draft, Melvin Gordon, Landon Collins?


Gurley
I wonder how Mariota would look with a change of scenery  
Go Terps : 10/17/2019 2:42 pm : link
and a strong OC/QB coach. I wouldn't write him off as a lost cause yet.
Here were my short summaries on them from 2015  
Sy'56 : 10/17/2019 3:07 pm : link
Mariota

Quote:
2 Marcus Mariota Oregon 64/222 79

Upside Pro Comparison Robert Griffin III/WAS

Last fall I viewed Mariota as an elite level (90+) QB prospect that I would want on the NYG roster as soon as round 1. I love his ability to move. He can change the game with his mobility. He is more than just an athlete too. He has some zip on his balls with a quick release and most importantly, his accuracy on the move is spot on. Ive seen every 2014 game tape of Oregon and I have to admit I jumped the gun on him. He remains uncomfortable in the pocket and the simple throws were routinely missed. His mechanics as a pocket passer are flawed and his experience starting under center is as limited as it gets. There is something about QBs that rely on athletic ability that just screams No to me as well. Mariota doesnt have the Cam Newton body type. I cant see him taking an extra 10 hits per game and lasting, a la Robert Griffin. Hes a mature kid and he does make plays, but there is more development that needs to occur here thus a larger margin for eventual error. I would still take Mariota on this team but not before round 2, hell be long gone by then.


And Winston

Quote:
The necessary talent is there. Winston has all the physical tools you want out of a QB. His size, presence, arm strength, accuracy, and mobility to warrant the first round grade. Would I consider him an elite thrower? No. An elite mover? No. However one thing he does have (and NYG fans will understand the importance of this) is the poise he maintains through tight situations. Winston proved he is a winner. He can have a horrid first half but his short memory allows him to come out firing in the fourth quarter and look unstoppable when the team needs him most. His off the field maturity issues are well documented, however. It may even cause some teams to cross him off their board entirely. When I see him play, I think a Big Ben type with less arm power. If his head is on straight, he can be a guy that teammates love, a guy that wins, and a guy that fans will cling to over time. The grade includes a few points off due to his character problems.

And didn't have either  
Sy'56 : 10/17/2019 3:08 pm : link
Graded as 1st round QBs I would want at the top
Hopefully it works out for Mariotta  
ghost718 : 10/17/2019 3:40 pm : link
was a fan of his in that draft
RE: .  
bw in dc : 10/17/2019 3:50 pm : link
In comment 14631567 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Winston has a super low football IQ. He's got the ability and talent, but I see him make so many absolutely stupid throws and decisions on a fairly regular basis. He just seems like a guy who will always flash but never put it all together.

Last week I watched him completely lose track of a linebacker in underneath coverage and throw the ball right to him. He was locked in on someone running a crossing route and basically completely ignored the second level of the defense.

For every good play Winston makes, he makes an equally inexplicable one. If Arians can't get him right, no one will.


That sums it up fairly well. He's a tough kid and will hand in the pocket for a long, long time. And will make some tremendous throws. But then he will make some of the most head-scratching throws you'll ever see. Just a real zero-sum game element to his play...

I was very bullish on Arians being the right guy to develop Winston. I still am but last week in London didn't help. If you look at Winston's prior four games before the London meltdown, he played very well...
I liked Mariota alot in the draft  
Jay on the Island : 10/17/2019 7:05 pm : link
but I was very concerned about whether he could stay healthy. IIRC the Eagles were very high on him and tried to trade up for him.
I think Mariota would be a good backup QB for us  
Sean : 10/17/2019 7:09 pm : link
Probably can get him for a decent price & someone who can play if needed.
RE: I liked Mariota alot in the draft  
jcn56 : 10/17/2019 7:15 pm : link
In comment 14631928 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
but I was very concerned about whether he could stay healthy. IIRC the Eagles were very high on him and tried to trade up for him.


It's funny how quickly things change - there was that concern that Kelly would land his QB in Mariota in Philly and we'd be screwed. Kelly has flamed out in two locations, and Mariota's basically one foot out the door.
RE: RE: I liked Mariota alot in the draft  
Jay on the Island : 10/17/2019 7:19 pm : link
In comment 14631935 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14631928 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


but I was very concerned about whether he could stay healthy. IIRC the Eagles were very high on him and tried to trade up for him.



It's funny how quickly things change - there was that concern that Kelly would land his QB in Mariota in Philly and we'd be screwed. Kelly has flamed out in two locations, and Mariota's basically one foot out the door.

I remember when Kelly was hired in SF and there was a lot of hype about him working with Kaepernick. It ended up being a disaster.
RE: RE: .  
AndyMilligan : 10/17/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14631819 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14631567 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


Winston has a super low football IQ. He's got the ability and talent, but I see him make so many absolutely stupid throws and decisions on a fairly regular basis. He just seems like a guy who will always flash but never put it all together.

Last week I watched him completely lose track of a linebacker in underneath coverage and throw the ball right to him. He was locked in on someone running a crossing route and basically completely ignored the second level of the defense.

For every good play Winston makes, he makes an equally inexplicable one. If Arians can't get him right, no one will.



That sums it up fairly well. He's a tough kid and will hand in the pocket for a long, long time. And will make some tremendous throws. But then he will make some of the most head-scratching throws you'll ever see. Just a real zero-sum game element to his play...

I was very bullish on Arians being the right guy to develop Winston. I still am but last week in London didn't help. If you look at Winston's prior four games before the London meltdown, he played very well...


There is an important QB skill that does not get mentioned enough. I have alluded to it before. Consistency, making pro throws. Both of these guys often have looked very good on isolated plays, especially Winston recently. But there is a skill to repeatability. Winston and Mariota fail here. It is a difficult skill to master. Both of these guys will not make it much further in the NFL, imo. They are unable to repeat at a high pct their winning throws. If you can't do that in the NFL, it is questionable whether you can even be a useful backup.
I think Winston will end up in the Jay Cutler,  
Jay on the Island : 10/17/2019 7:52 pm : link
Kerry Collins, Jeff George, etc types of QB's who have talent but are just missing something upstairs.
Re: Arians being the right guy to develop Winston  
Diver_Down : 10/17/2019 8:42 pm : link
This is a bunch of bullshit. Develop him into what? You develop a player on a rookie contract not one who is making $21M for the hope that you get to pay him $25+M/yr. That ship has sailed. The organization failed. They should have released him at the start of the league year. They would have been better off in signing Fitzpatrick; drafting a QB; or even trading for Rosen. None of the options include trying to "develop" Winston.
RE: Re: Arians being the right guy to develop Winston  
AndyMilligan : 10/18/2019 8:48 pm : link
In comment 14632018 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
This is a bunch of bullshit. Develop him into what? You develop a player on a rookie contract not one who is making $21M for the hope that you get to pay him $25+M/yr. That ship has sailed. The organization failed. They should have released him at the start of the league year. They would have been better off in signing Fitzpatrick; drafting a QB; or even trading for Rosen. None of the options include trying to "develop" Winston.


I think you are generally right. The developmental phase for these guys is over. Maybe some thought, since Winston flashed potential, that Arians could make him good NOW. But he can't. Winston is still bad. I agree they will move on from him and maybe he gets a shot in one or two more spots from a needy or desperate team. Both these guys are just not NFL QBs. They have had plenty of opportunity.
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