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NGT - Jalen Hurts...better prospect than Tua?

bw in dc : 10/19/2019 3:42 pm
Since Hurts has arrived in Norman, and enrolled in the LRSQB (Lincoln Riley School of Quarterbacks), he's been nothing short of phenomenal.

At Bama, Hurts was a classic dual threat player. Decent passer but best on the move making yards with his legs. But when Bama needed to modernize their passing game, Tua was the better fit. And he never relinquished the job. So coming into this season, Tua seemed like the better bet as an NFL prospect.

Granted, Hurts is in the B12, a conference bereft of defensive talent or concern, he now looks like he is a very competent passer. A real threat. He's completing nearly 73% of his passes and over 13 YPA. His pace looks like 3,500 yards passing and over 1,200 yards rushing. Video game numbers...

Now, Tua is still the more polished passer, and has shown that consistency over a long period of time. But Hurts is a bigger prospect, runs better, runs faster, and looks to have closed the throwing gap.

Hurts runs a 4.48. Tua has clocked in at 4.90. They have both been injured, but I think Tua is not as durable.

Tua is surrounded by a wealth of NFL talent. Hurts has talent to work with too, but his bigger advantage is access to Riley's brain.

So based on what fits in today's NFL game, is it possible that Hurts is actually the better prospect? Could he be another version of Lamar Jackson? Maybe not as fast as Jackson but a better thrower of the ball...

No  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 10/19/2019 3:46 pm : link
it’s the offensive system he is in.
I've never thought of Hurts  
Bill in UT : 10/19/2019 3:50 pm : link
as a pro passer, but I haven't watched him this year.
No.  
Giant John : 10/19/2019 4:08 pm : link
He is not.
No  
Nine-Tails : 10/19/2019 4:13 pm : link
But Hurts is climbing rather rapidly for sure. Before going to OU, I thought he should’ve changed positions, he’s a really good runner. But now, he’s very intriguing, developing passer, top runner, and he has the intangibles
Watch Washington Oregon  
aimrocky : 10/19/2019 4:26 pm : link
Eason vs. Herbert. These guys are studs
RE: No  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14633547 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
But Hurts is climbing rather rapidly for sure. Before going to OU, I thought he should’ve changed positions, he’s a really good runner. But now, he’s very intriguing, developing passer, top runner, and he has the intangibles


Good point about the idea of switching positions prior to this year. However, that narrative has definitely changed now.
RE: No  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14633529 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
it’s the offensive system he is in.


The system is prolific. But just watch Hurts play this year versus his year's at Bama. There is a real growth. Real development.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/19/2019 4:36 pm : link
No. I like Jalen and think he's made some serious strides from his days in Tuscaloosa. But it feels like the new trend is to just brush Tua off after half the nation spent last year drooling over him.

Kind of seeing the same thing with Trevor Lawrence. Last year, people were almost at the point where they wanted to just lose for as long and as much as it took to get him at all costs.

Now? All the talk is moving to Eason, Herbert, Burrow, etc...

Tua has flaws and I don't view him as a no-doubt top of the draft QB. But, it seems like he's becoming almost undervalued now.

Tua gets strikes against him for the talent he plays with... how many good defenses is Hurts putting up these numbers against?

A lot of these teams Oklahoma is playing are horrible. And yes, I realize Tua plays a lot of crappy defenses too. But we need to be a little fair here.

Tua is still a more advanced passer. Hurts may prove to be more durable and a better NFL prospect over time... but I don't think he's there yet.
arc...  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 4:56 pm : link
I'm not sure this reset of the college prospects has anything to do with Tua. I think it's more to do with other QBs showcasing their skills in a very productive fashion.

This class is trending > 2018 and 2019...IMV.

Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow, Fromm, Hurts, Love, Gordon. Maybe Ehlinger...
Hebert and Burrow  
Chris L. : 10/19/2019 5:25 pm : link
are both better than Tua.
Not sure about Herbert although he will be damn good .  
Bluesbreaker : 10/19/2019 5:41 pm : link
Hurts can run better than Tua ...
Burrow might be the best of them all ...
RE: arc...  
arcarsenal : 10/19/2019 5:46 pm : link
In comment 14633563 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I'm not sure this reset of the college prospects has anything to do with Tua. I think it's more to do with other QBs showcasing their skills in a very productive fashion.

This class is trending > 2018 and 2019...IMV.

Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow, Fromm, Hurts, Love, Gordon. Maybe Ehlinger...


If only people would have kept this possibility/mentality in mind when they screamed bloody murder over NYG not taking a QB in the 2018 draft... since, you know, that was the '83 redux of Marino, Kelly and Elway, apparently... and passing on that group was something that was going to haunt us for like 20 years or something.

Not only did we seemingly wind up with a prospect who can potentially be as good or better than any of those 2018 guys, but it looks like the upcoming class might even be more promising than the last.

Perhaps some folks here could keep things like this in mind in the future... but that may be asking too much. :)
No chance  
markky : 10/19/2019 6:21 pm : link
Tua is incredibly accurate. Hurts is not (yet) a pro passer and will never get to Tua's level.
arc...  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 6:31 pm : link
Not sure that is fair. It's impossible to predict how these markets might develop. So you deal with the market you are in at the time.

And in 2018, it was a very rational idea to suggest that taking a QB - or a position of > value than RB - made a lot of sense. Aside from Rosen at this point, every first round QB in that class has shown some real quality.
I think Burrow is the best of the bunch.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/19/2019 6:34 pm : link
He's a stud.
I'm very happy that the Redskins took Haskins last year  
Jay on the Island : 10/19/2019 7:24 pm : link
because they would be in great position to grab a much better QB prospect this year.
What happened w Herbert?  
Jerz44 : 10/19/2019 7:58 pm : link
I don’t follow college FB but if I remember correctly around this time last year everyone was talking about Herbert as the sure fire #1 pick. Did he drop off or did Tua just burst into the scene?
RE: What happened w Herbert?  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 8:02 pm : link
In comment 14633647 Jerz44 said:
Quote:
I don’t follow college FB but if I remember correctly around this time last year everyone was talking about Herbert as the sure fire #1 pick. Did he drop off or did Tua just burst into the scene?


Herbert struggled the second half of last year. So he skipped the draft and went back to Eugene.

He's playing very, very well this year. And he's a legit top ten prospect.
RE: arc...  
Nine-Tails : 10/19/2019 8:15 pm : link
In comment 14633563 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I'm not sure this reset of the college prospects has anything to do with Tua. I think it's more to do with other QBs showcasing their skills in a very productive fashion.

This class is trending > 2018 and 2019...IMV.

Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow, Fromm, Hurts, Love, Gordon. Maybe Ehlinger...


I love this class, yep I agree that it looks superior to past classes. Each of these guys have traits nfl gms fall in love with. This could be great for the Giants because a lot of talent will be pushed down with a lot of qb needy teams.
RE: RE: What happened w Herbert?  
Nine-Tails : 10/19/2019 8:17 pm : link
In comment 14633651 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14633647 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


I don’t follow college FB but if I remember correctly around this time last year everyone was talking about Herbert as the sure fire #1 pick. Did he drop off or did Tua just burst into the scene?



Herbert struggled the second half of last year. So he skipped the draft and went back to Eugene.

He's playing very, very well this year. And he's a legit top ten prospect.


I think Herbert has great tools but he’s not in the best situation in Oregon. Not a great supporting cast and heard a lot of people critical of Cristobals offensive philosophy.
RE: What happened w Herbert?  
Jay on the Island : 10/19/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14633647 Jerz44 said:
Quote:
I don’t follow college FB but if I remember correctly around this time last year everyone was talking about Herbert as the sure fire #1 pick. Did he drop off or did Tua just burst into the scene?

Herbert was rated lower than Tua by almost everyone last year. There are a few that have Herbert ahead of Tua but he is still regarded by many as the best QB in this years draft. Eason has burst onto the scene after sitting out last year.
RE: RE: RE: What happened w Herbert?  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 8:33 pm : link
In comment 14633662 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:


I think Herbert has great tools but he’s not in the best situation in Oregon. Not a great supporting cast and heard a lot of people critical of Cristobals offensive philosophy.


Not sure I agree. There are three high round picks on that OL in Throckmorton, Lemieux and Hansen. Breeland the TE is getting draft. Likio and Verdell are pretty good RBs. And I actually like their young receivers.

They are one play away from being undefeated because they gave Auburn that first game of the year...
RE: RE: arc...  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 8:35 pm : link
In comment 14633660 Nine-Tails said:
Quote:
In comment 14633563 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I'm not sure this reset of the college prospects has anything to do with Tua. I think it's more to do with other QBs showcasing their skills in a very productive fashion.

This class is trending > 2018 and 2019...IMV.

Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow, Fromm, Hurts, Love, Gordon. Maybe Ehlinger...



I love this class, yep I agree that it looks superior to past classes. Each of these guys have traits nfl gms fall in love with. This could be great for the Giants because a lot of talent will be pushed down with a lot of qb needy teams.


Very likely. I could see Miami, Denver, Oakland (who knows how Gruden feels about Carr), San Diego taking long looks at QB...
RE: RE: RE: RE: What happened w Herbert?  
Nine-Tails : 10/19/2019 8:47 pm : link
In comment 14633688 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14633662 Nine-Tails said:


Quote:




I think Herbert has great tools but he’s not in the best situation in Oregon. Not a great supporting cast and heard a lot of people critical of Cristobals offensive philosophy.



Not sure I agree. There are three high round picks on that OL in Throckmorton, Lemieux and Hansen. Breeland the TE is getting draft. Likio and Verdell are pretty good RBs. And I actually like their young receivers.

They are one play away from being undefeated because they gave Auburn that first game of the year...


Haven’t watched much, so using twitter as my guide for him. People were complaining about the skill position guys, especially wr
Lol no  
giants_10_88 : 10/19/2019 8:48 pm : link
But I think Eason, Herbert and Morrow are all better than Tua.
Who was the last NFL successful QB to come out of Alabama or Saban  
Ivan15 : 10/19/2019 9:11 pm : link
Team?

Joe Namath, David Todd, or Mike Shula? Name someone since 1990.
RE: RE: What happened w Herbert?  
lax counsel : 10/19/2019 9:16 pm : link
In comment 14633651 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14633647 Jerz44 said:


Quote:


I don’t follow college FB but if I remember correctly around this time last year everyone was talking about Herbert as the sure fire #1 pick. Did he drop off or did Tua just burst into the scene?



Herbert struggled the second half of last year. So he skipped the draft and went back to Eugene.

He's playing very, very well this year. And he's a legit top ten prospect.


I like Jones, and he showed tremendous skill in the Tampa game. He’s been really inconsistent since. With that said, the Giants better hoped they hit this pick on the head because both Herbert and Eason look to be legit top qb prospects. Jones never showed close to either of these two in college.

Again, I think Jones has ability, but Gettlemen better have been right after watching thee guys play.
If Jones established himself further and we don't need a QB  
santacruzom : 10/19/2019 9:21 pm : link
This looks it will be a great draft for us to be picking top ten.
lax...  
bw in dc : 10/19/2019 10:16 pm : link
Like I said in an earlier post, it's shaping up to be a very deep draft beyond Herbert and Eason.

Obviously there is Tua. And I think his former teammate Hurts is starting to turn the heads of NFL scouts.

Burrow is playing completely out of his mind at LSU.

To me, Fromm is Jones 2.0, but with a better arm and accuracy.

And Jordan Love is as skilled as any QB in this draft.

Sam Ehlinger is Tim Tebow but he can throw.

I think Anthony Gordon is a nice prospect out of that Wazzu pipeline.
I don't think so, I think it's harder these  
barens : 10/19/2019 11:37 pm : link
days for QB's in college who have to rely on their arm, and Tua isn't having any issues, with the exception of the Championship game.

I think Hurts may end up being a very good prospect in his own right, but at Alabama, he wasn't steamrolling opponents like Tua was. He would find ways to win, but if Hurts has to win with his arm, I just don't know.
Who cares! The Giants have their qb for the next 12 - 14 years!  
SterlingArcher : 10/20/2019 12:39 am : link
.
Burrow is so good  
Ned In Atlanta : 10/20/2019 1:00 am : link
.
RE: arc...  
jomps : 10/20/2019 4:01 am : link
In comment 14633563 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I'm not sure this reset of the college prospects has anything to do with Tua. I think it's more to do with other QBs showcasing their skills in a very productive fashion.

This class is trending > 2018 and 2019...IMV.

Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow, Fromm, Hurts, Love, Gordon. Maybe Ehlinger...

Maybe Ehlinger? He is better than at least 3 of those quarterbacks
RE: lax...  
BigBlueShock : 10/20/2019 8:31 am : link
In comment 14633951 bw in dc said:
Quote:

To me, Fromm is Jones 2.0, but with a better arm and accuracy

I realize you’ve never been a Jones fan, but this is a terrible take. Fromm is absolutely nothing like Jones. He’s not near as athletic and no, he doesn’t have a better arm and accuracy. Fromm is insanely overrated, imo. Must be nice to play with NFL talent at almost every position
RE: Who was the last NFL successful QB to come out of Alabama or Saban  
Mike from Ohio : 10/20/2019 8:59 am : link
In comment 14633776 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
Team?

Joe Namath, David Todd, or Mike Shula? Name someone since 1990.


I can’t believe there are still people who think like this. You evaluate players, not school histories. How many times does this ridiculous thinking need to be disproven?

“When was the last time a RB from Penn State succeeded?” Then you get Saquon Barkley.

“QBs from Texas Tech are system guys, Their QBs aren’t NFL players,”. Then you have Patrick Mahomes.

This is just lazy.
RE: lax...  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 10/20/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14633951 bw in dc said:
Quote:
Like I said in an earlier post, it's shaping up to be a very deep draft beyond Herbert and Eason.

Obviously there is Tua. And I think his former teammate Hurts is starting to turn the heads of NFL scouts.

Burrow is playing completely out of his mind at LSU.

To me, Fromm is Jones 2.0, but with a better arm and accuracy.

And Jordan Love is as skilled as any QB in this draft.

Sam Ehlinger is Tim Tebow but he can throw.

I think Anthony Gordon is a nice prospect out of that Wazzu pipeline.


bw, Fromm has a better arm than Jones? What games are you watching? Fromm is a terrific college QB, but I think you will be surprised to see where he gets picked. From what I have read and seen, he is going to be a really good backup QB at the pro level.
RE: RE: arc...  
bw in dc : 10/20/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14634511 jomps said:
Quote:
In comment 14633563 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I'm not sure this reset of the college prospects has anything to do with Tua. I think it's more to do with other QBs showcasing their skills in a very productive fashion.

This class is trending > 2018 and 2019...IMV.

Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow, Fromm, Hurts, Love, Gordon. Maybe Ehlinger...


Maybe Ehlinger? He is better than at least 3 of those quarterbacks


I don't know if Ehlinger is leaning towards staying at UT or leaving. I'm assuming the others I listed are coming out...Thus, the "maybe"...
RE: RE: lax...  
bw in dc : 10/20/2019 10:47 am : link
In comment 14634544 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14633951 bw in dc said:


Quote:



To me, Fromm is Jones 2.0, but with a better arm and accuracy



I realize you’ve never been a Jones fan, but this is a terrible take. Fromm is absolutely nothing like Jones. He’s not near as athletic and no, he doesn’t have a better arm and accuracy. Fromm is insanely overrated, imo. Must be nice to play with NFL talent at almost every position


What I mean is there are no elite/plus tools with Fromm. And I didn't see any of those with Jones.

Although a good case can be made Jones's does have plus speed for a QB.

I have written quite a bit that I don't think Fromm is an elite QB. So I'm not elevating him over Jones. But he is an accurate thrower of the football.
RE: RE: lax...  
bw in dc : 10/20/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14634561 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:

bw, Fromm has a better arm than Jones? What games are you watching? Fromm is a terrific college QB, but I think you will be surprised to see where he gets picked. From what I have read and seen, he is going to be a really good backup QB at the pro level.


I watch everything. I don't think Jones has a great arm. It's a good arm. And Fromm doesn't have a great arm, but he gets through the ball better than Jones. He throws a very tight ball.

As I just wrote a post earlier, I don't think Fromm is great prospect. He doesn't do anything special. But he's actually a sneaky good athlete who can play at a decent level with the right parts. I wouldn't touch him in the first round. Maybe a good investment in round two...
RE: RE: RE: arc...  
jomps : 10/20/2019 12:47 pm : link
In comment 14634626 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14634511 jomps said:


Quote:


In comment 14633563 bw in dc said:


Quote:


I'm not sure this reset of the college prospects has anything to do with Tua. I think it's more to do with other QBs showcasing their skills in a very productive fashion.

This class is trending > 2018 and 2019...IMV.

Tua, Herbert, Eason, Burrow, Fromm, Hurts, Love, Gordon. Maybe Ehlinger...


Maybe Ehlinger? He is better than at least 3 of those quarterbacks



I don't know if Ehlinger is leaning towards staying at UT or leaving. I'm assuming the others I listed are coming out...Thus, the "maybe"...


Fair enough!
Regarding the OP question I guess Hurts certainly improved a lot as a passer but in my opinion he is nowhere near Tua.
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