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New York Giants - Arizona Cardinals Post-Game Discussion

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/20/2019 4:01 pm
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How come no one is mentioning Hal Hunter or  
NYRiese : 10/20/2019 5:18 pm : link
the rest of the position coaches.
2nd tier all, and Maras reluctance or ignorance to pay for top notch coaching talent.
RE: BS people were not saying Eli was not holding them bck  
joe48 : 10/20/2019 5:20 pm : link
In comment 14636843 Big_N said:
Quote:
A ton of goofs on here thought this was a winning team wo Eli. That includes the loser connection gettlemen n shumur .... why bring him back if you knew you were rebuilding and non competitive. They really thought this D might cut it in the nfl
The owner wanted Eli back.
...  
BleedBlue : 10/20/2019 5:22 pm : link
you guys freaking out about jones are a joke.

its game FIVE. do you undertand? this was his FIRST game with all the talent back and he didnt have shepard.

he hasnt had his players in full ONCE. sloppy conditions today too. i am sorry but you ugys are getting crazy here.

givet he kid time. he is oging to make mistakes he is a rookie
RE: The thing that kills me is that we passed on Patricia  
fanofthejets : 10/20/2019 5:23 pm : link
In comment 14636862 Mike in Prescott said:
Quote:
For "Mr. Nice Guy." It is hard for me to really accept how clueless this organization is. We may still have something in Jones, but otherwise I don't see a lot of good moves. And I HATE Shurmer now. Just unwatchable football at this point. Sorry. Ranting over.


The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.
RE: Simple facts  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 5:24 pm : link
In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3

Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach

8-25 over 3 seasons

38-58 over last 7 seasons


2-3 is not a good record!
RE: RE: Simple facts  
twostepgiants : 10/20/2019 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14636904 Big_N said:
Quote:
In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3

Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach

8-25 over 3 seasons

38-58 over last 7 seasons



2-3 is not a good record!


Itís better than Eliís and its not bad for a rookie QB.
RE: RE: Jones is a stud  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 5:27 pm : link
In comment 14636720 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
In comment 14636665 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnít have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.


Get a coach who is not constantly calling scripted wco spacing/comeback routes against Tampa 2.


Thats is a silly take. Shurmur is Jones' guy. What is the point of JOnes wo Shurmur ? Jones ends up a journeyman back up if this team doesn't start winning his fault or not since a new coach would mean no more jones
Best RB in league  
bc4life : 10/20/2019 5:27 pm : link
held to 70 yards by one of the worst defenses. = no running game. add to that, 8 sacks, 12 QB hits - and you want to talk about the rookie QB? Really?
Welp ...at least we have seen some potential .  
buster : 10/20/2019 5:27 pm : link
A huge difference between this year and last years catastrophe as far as performance and expectation.. Last year was a bottom which I hope I never have to witness again..... I think we will end up as an overall 6 for the season...as opposed to 2019's 3... Not so bad!
RE: RE: The Cards  
gmenatlarge : 10/20/2019 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14636842 Bluesbreaker said:
Quote:
In comment 14636340 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Just beat us on the road with an inferior roster. That should tell you all you need to know about this coaching staff.


Thats pretty much how I felt and I can't state much more than already been said I still think DG has been good in the draft
free agency not so much . Shurmur is what he record says he is
a loser . Betchers defense was very ill prepared .
for a team he is very familiar with .
Even his body language is poor and always has this pathetic
look on his face like someome stole his lunch money .
Is he really helping Jones ? I don't think so or its not getting through . The O-line still needs a lot of help.
His game planning on offense is unknown .


Bettcher was not familiar with that offense, new regime in Arizona.
RE: RE: RE: Simple facts  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 5:29 pm : link
In comment 14636911 twostepgiants said:
Quote:
In comment 14636904 Big_N said:


Quote:


In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3

Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach

8-25 over 3 seasons

38-58 over last 7 seasons



2-3 is not a good record!



Itís better than Eliís and its not bad for a rookie QB.


If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Simple facts  
BleedBlue : 10/20/2019 5:31 pm : link
In comment 14636923 Big_N said:
Quote:
In comment 14636911 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14636904 Big_N said:


Quote:


In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3

Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach

8-25 over 3 seasons

38-58 over last 7 seasons



2-3 is not a good record!



Itís better than Eliís and its not bad for a rookie QB.



If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.


eli wasnt the problem but he wasnt part of solutiob. jones is future. what the fuck dont people get? benching eli is common fucking sense
RE: the  
BleedBlue : 10/20/2019 5:32 pm : link
In comment 14636936 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Cardinals had an astounding 12 tackles for losses in this game. You can't win like that.


OL needs work
Let's put  
broadbandz : 10/20/2019 5:32 pm : link
Eli in as a player's coach. The year is over so lets be a progressive organization and try something new.
The coach is the problem  
Rflairr : 10/20/2019 5:32 pm : link
Heís 17-39 as a HC. How much more do you need to see from this clueless clown. Heís never going to win anything. Heís not a Head Coach
RE: RE: the  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/20/2019 5:33 pm : link
In comment 14636941 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14636936 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Cardinals had an astounding 12 tackles for losses in this game. You can't win like that.



OL needs work


My bad....12 QB hits, 8 sacks, 7 tackles for losses.
RE: RE: RE: the  
BleedBlue : 10/20/2019 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14636946 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 14636941 BleedBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 14636936 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Cardinals had an astounding 12 tackles for losses in this game. You can't win like that.



OL needs work



My bad....12 QB hits, 8 sacks, 7 tackles for losses.


my statement remains lol
RE: Eli would not have done better  
buster : 10/20/2019 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14636758 UberAlias said:
Quote:
Move on.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Simple facts  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 5:35 pm : link
In comment 14636933 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 14636923 Big_N said:


Quote:


In comment 14636911 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


In comment 14636904 Big_N said:


Quote:


In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3

Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach

8-25 over 3 seasons

38-58 over last 7 seasons



2-3 is not a good record!



Itís better than Eliís and its not bad for a rookie QB.



If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.



eli wasnt the problem but he wasnt part of solutiob. jones is future. what the fuck dont people get? benching eli is common fucking sense


yea i agree.
.  
Banks : 10/20/2019 5:35 pm : link
I've been supportive of Shurmur thus far, but I think today I'm done with him. I hope he turns it around, but I think the gameplan was pretty bad and some bad mental errors by the team I have to think coaching plays a part in. I still can't believe our final series.
Giants-Cardinals  
johnboyw : 10/20/2019 5:40 pm : link
So many negatives from this game I don't know where to start.

Overall, the most disturbing thing I see with this team is a serious lack of toughness, especially the defense. Continued missed tackles, soft against the run and totally unable to stop anyone on third and long. They made a free agent RB from s 1-AA college look like Emmitt Smith. There are a fair number of players on the D who aren't playing well (Hill, Carter, Ogletree, Bethea and Peppers) and most of the others are just adequate. Most notably, there are no true playmakers. I believe there is talent here but I think that Bettcher sucks as a coordinator. Way overrated. If he can't do better with what he has been given, he should be canned at the end of the year.

On offense, not much better. This was one of the worst blocking exhibitions I have seen from a Giants team since the 70's. Solder is putrid . Does not play with any power or an attitude. I don't think they made 5 yards running left today. And on the other side, Remmers is just average. They need two better tackles. At TE, Engram couldn't block my wife who is 5' tall. Should move him to WR and draft another TE like Ellison.

Jones has to learn that he can't hold the ball forever. A lot of those sacks today were on him. And he absolutely can't be fumbling the way he has been. He's starting to look way too much like Eli.

Lastly, and I've said it before but I don't think Shurmer is the coach for this team. He's never won as s head coach and he just doesn't look like a guy with the energy and positive attitude to be a winner. All of that being said, I'm predicting a 5-11 finish and another top 5 pick.
Pat Defer  
jeff57 : 10/20/2019 5:40 pm : link
Defers victory.
RE: RE: BS people were not saying Eli was not holding them bck  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 5:41 pm : link
In comment 14636892 joe48 said:
Quote:
In comment 14636843 Big_N said:


Quote:


A ton of goofs on here thought this was a winning team wo Eli. That includes the loser connection gettlemen n shumur .... why bring him back if you knew you were rebuilding and non competitive. They really thought this D might cut it in the nfl

The owner wanted Eli back.


If that is true then this is on Gettlmen and he needs to go. Your boss is telling you to bring back a 38 yr old vet qb? That means this is not the time to go young rebuild but retain your talent in collins, snacks, and odel and pick Jones at 17 or not worry about it tell next year.
Bettcher is awful -  
section125 : 10/20/2019 5:44 pm : link
almost two weeks to prepare the defense was flat out putrid. Getting tired of his defenses.

Shurmur had the worst game plan/play calling I've seen since John McVay.

Jones has no feel for the pocket and protection or lack thereof. He has regressed.

Offensive line is, well offensive. All 5 of them.

Seems that nobody on defense wants to tackle low so they don't get carried 5 yards or shaken off.

DeOssie needs to be replaced. Another botched snap helping Rosas to miss that kick. I have no idea how Riley caught that ball let alone got it down for the attempt.

FWIW, Jones is a much better QB than Murray. Kid showed me nothing and it was clear his coach did not trust him to throw.

Saquan had two awful backwards runs to kill drives and take them out of FG range at the end of the 1st half.(Trying to do too much).

One good thing. Special teams is the one area of the team that is greatly improved. DeOssie needs to be replaced, but other than that, they are playing well.
RE: RE: Simple facts  
section125 : 10/20/2019 5:50 pm : link
In comment 14636904 Big_N said:
Quote:
In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:


Quote:


Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3

Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach

8-25 over 3 seasons

38-58 over last 7 seasons



2-3 is not a good record!


Please don't feed this week's troll. Just another shit stirrer.
Big_N...I get it..  
Thunderstruck27 : 10/20/2019 5:50 pm : link
but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest
RE: Let's put  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 5:54 pm : link
In comment 14636943 broadbandz said:
Quote:
Eli in as a player's coach. The year is over so lets be a progressive organization and try something new.


yea there's a thought like Paul Newman is Slapshot. We need the Hansons on D too
I believe in  
XBRONX : 10/20/2019 5:56 pm : link
Sy's draft write up he said Jones didn't have a feel for the pocket. He was right on about that.
RE: Big_N...I get it..  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 5:59 pm : link
In comment 14637023 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest


Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.
RE: RE: Big_N...I get it..  
Thunderstruck27 : 10/20/2019 6:06 pm : link
In comment 14637057 Big_N said:
Quote:
In comment 14637023 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest



Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.


Maybe you're right. But if we said the same thing about Eli after 5 starts we probably wouldn't have won 2 Super Bowls with him.
RE: I believe in  
Nine-Tails : 10/20/2019 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14637046 XBRONX said:
Quote:
Sy's draft write up he said Jones didn't have a feel for the pocket. He was right on about that.


His pocket awareness may be my single biggest concern about him. He has flashed in all other areas
RE: This team sucks  
Jay in Toronto : 10/20/2019 6:17 pm : link
In comment 14636341 KDubbs said:
Quote:
And im sorry, the qb might be menally retarded.


This may the stupidest post in the history of BBI
RE: RE: This team sucks  
Nine-Tails : 10/20/2019 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14637111 Jay in Toronto said:
Quote:
In comment 14636341 KDubbs said:


Quote:


And im sorry, the qb might be menally retarded.




This may the stupidest post in the history of BBI


Agree, and there have been a lot of awful posts, though I would say one guy telling DG to die takes the cake.
reality is this franchise  
mdc1 : 10/20/2019 6:23 pm : link
is circling the drain, and cannot seem to do much right these days. How long does it take to fix a fucking oline, a competitive defense? I know we have some talent problems, but our coaching is putrid. Not sure if these owners are just football only, but they should sell the team to someone that is committed to winning and will take the necessary steps to do it without half-measures and mickey mouse gimmicks. Do not expect to win much moving forward with this bunch, a losing culture that has a low accountability standard. We can aslo expect a revolving door of free agents that are has beens that cannot get it done. Truly pathetic product on that field today. Shocking considering they had so much time to prepare for a 2 win team that is at the bottom of the league as we are.
Nothing will change  
XBRONX : 10/20/2019 6:26 pm : link
with shit ownership
RE: RE: RE: Big_N...I get it..  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 6:30 pm : link
In comment 14637078 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 14637057 Big_N said:


Quote:


In comment 14637023 Thunderstruck27 said:


Quote:


but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest



Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.



Maybe you're right. But if we said the same thing about Eli after 5 starts we probably wouldn't have won 2 Super Bowls with him.


Eli's 5 th start was against the #1 ranked Defense PittsburghStealers. He went 16 0f 23 with 2 tds 1 int and a 103.9 rating.

Yea if Jones put numbers like that up against the Vikes or Pats then yea maybe I would not have that opinion.
RE: Bettcher is awful -  
HomerJones45 : 10/20/2019 6:31 pm : link
In comment 14636996 section125 said:
Quote:
almost two weeks to prepare the defense was flat out putrid. Getting tired of his defenses.

Shurmur had the worst game plan/play calling I've seen since John McVay.

Jones has no feel for the pocket and protection or lack thereof. He has regressed.

Offensive line is, well offensive. All 5 of them.

Seems that nobody on defense wants to tackle low so they don't get carried 5 yards or shaken off.

DeOssie needs to be replaced. Another botched snap helping Rosas to miss that kick. I have no idea how Riley caught that ball let alone got it down for the attempt.

FWIW, Jones is a much better QB than Murray. Kid showed me nothing and it was clear his coach did not trust him to throw.

Saquan had two awful backwards runs to kill drives and take them out of FG range at the end of the 1st half.(Trying to do too much).

One good thing. Special teams is the one area of the team that is greatly improved. DeOssie needs to be replaced, but other than that, they are playing well.
This was by far Murray's fewest passing attempts in a game. I think it was more gameplan or in game plan than anything else. He threw better than i thought he would, and he did not run as well as I expected.
eli looked average to bad his first four starts in 04, but  
japanhead : 10/20/2019 6:36 pm : link
his last three starts he was really good and almost led them to wins over cincinnati and pittsburgh before beating dallas to close the season.

so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.
Jones  
AcidTest : 10/20/2019 6:41 pm : link
definitely holds the ball too long. He needs to throw it away, not only to prevent fumbles, but also for his own safety. But he's a rookie, and the problem wouldn't exist to this extent if his receivers could separate.
RE: Nothing will change  
bluesince56 : 10/20/2019 6:42 pm : link
In comment 14637140 XBRONX said:
Quote:
with shit ownership


Sadly. You are correct
As stupid as it sounds  
Dankbeerman : 10/20/2019 6:44 pm : link
this team was beaten before kickoff. They had no interest in playing in this weather and were so un prepared for it its crazy.

There is a reason Arizona didnt push the ball downfeild against our suspect pass d. They cam out ran the ball and then their D line just whooped up on us to the point where evey OL basically quit, by the 4th quarter they were thinking about their dinner plans and what happend on the bachelor last week. People need to be benched if they cant put out an effort.
RE: eli looked average to bad his first four starts in 04, but  
Thunderstruck27 : 10/20/2019 6:48 pm : link
In comment 14637170 japanhead said:
Quote:
his last three starts he was really good and almost led them to wins over cincinnati and pittsburgh before beating dallas to close the season.

so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.


Can't argue with this. But Eli took over a team that was winning. A team with more talent. And a team with a much better coach
RE: RE: eli looked average to bad his first four starts in 04, but  
Nine-Tails : 10/20/2019 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14637213 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 14637170 japanhead said:


Quote:


his last three starts he was really good and almost led them to wins over cincinnati and pittsburgh before beating dallas to close the season.

so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.



Can't argue with this. But Eli took over a team that was winning. A team with more talent. And a team with a much better coach


Eli was god awful for a while, especially the infamous Baltimore game. Jones has looked better in his first few starts.
RE: RE: eli looked average to bad his first four starts in 04, but  
Dankbeerman : 10/20/2019 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14637213 Thunderstruck27 said:
Quote:
In comment 14637170 japanhead said:


Quote:


his last three starts he was really good and almost led them to wins over cincinnati and pittsburgh before beating dallas to close the season.

so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.



Can't argue with this. But Eli took over a team that was winning. A team with more talent. And a team with a much better coach


Rookies are gonna struggle. Maybe its eaiser on them not to start off hot. Doesnt matter let him play fail and learn. This season is not about the playoffs and a lot of guys should be getting their cracks at the line up soon
Eliís on the bench  
aimrocky : 10/20/2019 7:23 pm : link
Whoís the next scapegoat?
RE: Eliís on the bench  
Default : 10/20/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14637343 aimrocky said:
Quote:
Whoís the next scapegoat?


Stupid take.
RE: Wondering now  
Jay on the Island : 10/20/2019 8:30 pm : link
In comment 14636825 fanofthejets said:
Quote:
With a Giants regime change pretty much guaranteed (Shurmur and Gettleman on borrowed time, but I do think they get the full season) will the next GM/Coach combo be onboard with Jones or will they perhaps draft another QB for 2020? Could be an Arizona Cardinals situation once again.

Seems to have worked for them

First off Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Secondly Jones has shown just as much this season as Darnold showed last year. He hasn't had the luxury of a solid OL, healthy weapons, or a good defense yet he has kept his team in nearly every game he has started including the world champs without Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Gallman.

RE: RE: The thing that kills me is that we passed on Patricia  
Jay on the Island : 10/20/2019 8:32 pm : link
In comment 14636903 fanofthejets said:
Quote:

The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.

One again you post this false narrative. It was proven that the Giants did not want Patricia. This was pointed out to you when you posted a baseless article from someone at ESPN who had no sources to support their claim. Patricia was never a finalist for the Giants job.
RE: RE: RE: The thing that kills me is that we passed on Patricia  
Go Terps : 10/20/2019 8:33 pm : link
In comment 14637577 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14636903 fanofthejets said:


Quote:



The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.


One again you post this false narrative. It was proven that the Giants did not want Patricia. This was pointed out to you when you posted a baseless article from someone at ESPN who had no sources to support their claim. Patricia was never a finalist for the Giants job.


Maybe he should have been. Granted they could have hired a magic 8 ball and had similar or better results.
Can someone explain to me the James Bettcher defensive scheme?  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/21/2019 2:09 am : link
It appeared to be...

- play 5 yards off receiver on 3rd/4th and 2
- play 10 yards off receiver on 3rd and 6
- play 15 yards off receiver on 3rd and 12


This was a team-wide bed shitting that ultimately falls at the feet of the head coach, especially considering how lifelessly the team started the game coming off extra rest. The defense looked non-competitive on some early running plays. The special teams mixed a punt block TD with a huge FG miss and boneheaded returns. The offense was equal parts bad play by o-line, mistakes by rookie QB, drops, and inexplicable plays by Saquon Barkley.

As I said when they made the move to Daniel Jones, this is as much about judging Pat Shurmur as it is about moving forward at QB. Right now, Shurmur looks to be in serious jeopardy with performances like this. He's like Andy Reid with none of his good qualities. I'm not much for analyzing post-game press conferences, but he doesn't really inspire much confidence there either.
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