Start the countdown clock for this HC, this was a litmus test type game and one that should be winnable. The Giants were smoked at home with errors and idiotic decisions abound.
Dark era for the Giants and unless something changes real fast, things might get worse before better.
There wasn't one thing he did right today. The draw for three yards to set up a 4th and 15 has to take the cake. Must lose this guy before next year!!!!
the more I want them to just get rid of Shurmur. I can't believe I had faith in him when he was hired. Those few wins in Cleveland in the middle of nothing for other coaches had us hoodwinked.
There is nothing about this team to think that DGs plan is working. If anything the team is as bad on the OL as last year, and the new mobile QB only runs when he is trying to avoid a sack. Defense? Hard to judge as it only appears occasionally. Nothing good going on here.
We need to be in the coaching hunt before the end of the season. Betcher too. I like what Gettleman is doing and we have a good young core but have to get some coaches to utilize it correctly.
There wasn't one thing he did right today. The draw for three yards to set up a 4th and 15 has to take the cake. Must lose this guy before next year!!!!
Well at least we got 3 yards. If he went back to pass, sack by Chandler Jones and possibly a fumble.
Jones is very concerning with the turnovers. When he has time (rarely) he is making some good throws. Shurmur did not help very much and I really dislike his offense. I still think he has a bright future.
No changing coordinators, giving up play calling etc....he is not a HC and now the press will eat him alive.
Hes constantly under pressure, his receivers get ZERO separation out there, and his coach put him in the best position to succeed with his crappy play calling.
And im sorry, the qb might be menally retarded. I get it, he is a roomie and has shit around him but get rid of the fucking ball!! I mean even the last play, he had all day to toss up a prayer and he still cant be bothered to throw it until he finally gets hit.
wretched loss to a very bad team that had to travel all the way across the country, including three time zones. We made Edmonds look like an all pro.
The OL is a disaster. Pressure comes from the edges, and up the middle. The bad OL and receivers who can't separation are why Jones holds the ball for so long, and is throwing into incredibly tight windows even by NFL standards. Jones is holding the ball too long, but he's being regularly hammered.
I don't think the OL is any better than last year. At this point, I'd bench Remmers for Gates, or at least play a sixth OL. I also think Zeitler's shoulder is hurting. We can't move the ball.
It's also painfully apparent that we can't generate much pass rush, and yet again have no LBs who can cover.
I don't understand why we ran the ball on third and 20 when we were going to go for it on fourth down.
that Shurmur has absolutely no idea how to manage the clock and plays? This guy needs to be fired immediately.
He has no feel for the game. It's like he's sitting in a vacuum. He doesn't see how punting it away means the Cardinals are going to run three plays and punt and he's got the ball back with a minute something on the clock and down three points.
A lot to hate about this game. It was a huge test for Shurmur and he failed miserably. Unfortunately, dont hold your breath if you want him canned at the end of this season. I doubt its happening.
So many plays left on the field. The o-line has regressed from first few weeks. Engram hasnt taken the next step as a player.
Jones has fumbling issues but the main problem I see with him is holding on to the football WAY too long. Its a huge issue. On the plus side there does seem to be a lot to work with with him but there is really no reason to believe Shurmur is the right guy moving forward.
would've been preferable to that dogshit. Shurmur is the worst coach in football - a 12-year-old Kingsbury coached the pants off him. And how bout that RB who torched us? Fourth rounder from fucking Fordham. You can find RBs anywhere, Mr. Gettleman.
Hes constantly under pressure, his receivers get ZERO separation out there, and his coach put him in the best position to succeed with his crappy play calling.
Exactly but watch some dumbasses still going after him
The Oline is still bad. Play calling and game management are not good. Jones may or may not be the answer. Barkley was ineffective as it was clear he is the only guy on the field the defense worries about.
Trying not to overreact to a bad loss to a beatable team, but it really feels like this team just isnt getting better from either a personnel or structure perspective.
Hes constantly under pressure, his receivers get ZERO separation out there, and his coach put him in the best position to succeed with his crappy play calling.
Exactly but watch some dumbasses still going after him
OL sucks, shurmur does him no favors
The offensive line sucks, but I thought the whole point of a mobile QB
Wonder why? The o line was brutal and there were key drops and horrid coaching.
No he didnt. He looked like a rookie trying to play in Shurmurs scheme with a bad defense. Eli would have checked down more and made more experienced decisions which would have only made many fans more livid for some reason.
What does that mean? Peyton had 28 Ints and 26 TDs his rookie year
It means he turns the ball over too much and hes really gotta work on it. I dont think anyone is being unreasonable in their criticism. Hes gotta work on it. Takes dumb chances/forces it into tight windows and has no internal clock to speak of in the pocket.
Just beat us on the road with an inferior roster. That should tell you all you need to know about this coaching staff.
You have to wonder about the inferior roster part. Johnson's backup ran for 130 yards and 3 td's. They've got a couple of legit linebackers, a pass rusher and a couple of decent db's. And they seem to have a helluva lot more speed than we do.
but the real problems syaty with mara and why this team has been the worst run franchise in football in the last 7 years . What hope is there for this to turn around as long as hes the owner ?
but the real problems syaty with mara and why this team has been the worst run franchise in football in the last 7 years . What hope is there for this to turn around as long as hes the owner ?
No, the actual one thing thats clear is that people desperately want it to be just one thing thats wrong with this team. And its not. Its close to a dozen.
but the real problems syaty with mara and why this team has been the worst run franchise in football in the last 7 years . What hope is there for this to turn around as long as hes the owner ?
He could start by firing his brother. The question has to be asked if Reese and Gettleman were just front men for Chris Mara.
Not necessarily depressing! If Jones doesn't look like the answer, we'll have quite a few promising QBs to choose from. Otherwise we can take an excellent DE, WR, CB, or safety, or even trade down.
- This should cement the Giants as sellers for whatever few tradable assets who don't figure on the team in 2020.
- It's more school of hard knocks for Daniel Jones to go through the rookie growing pains and come out the better for it, and boy did he have them today in the beating he took
- Eyes wide open on who Shurmur is as a coach. He was able to hide last year thanks to a complete strip down of the roster. But we saw his natural tendency to screw up when he blew the game in Philly. This time, with more or less a full season of Jones, if Shurmur is causing problems in the decisions and game plan, this should signal to the Giants that while Jones might be the future, Shurmur just isn't the guy. He's a coordinator who can't hack it as a head man. I thought the Giants would give him 3 years by default, but I think we've all seen enough now. If you are targeting to win in 2020, do it with a coach who you can win with. That's not Shurmur.
should get the HC fires right now. Runs a draw of third down on 3rd and Twenty and then goes for it on 4th and 15 in your own end. Just plain stupid. Needs to go right now.
but the real problems syaty with mara and why this team has been the worst run franchise in football in the last 7 years . What hope is there for this to turn around as long as hes the owner ?
He could start by firing his brother. The question has to be asked if Reese and Gettleman were just front men for Chris Mara.
Yeah well that wont happen. And guess who is picking the next GM? Guess who is picking the next HC ?
We got an al davis, dan snyder, here and its about time fans start to wake up and realize it
Just puts john and chris in front of a tv that is replaying the eighty six season, because if they watched today`s game, how could they not flat out release the entire clown show of management and coaching losers?
Jones continues to be a turnover machine. Blame the OL if you want, but Jones just has to learn how to feel the rush and protect the ball. If he can't fix this problem then he's not THE guy.
Shurmur continues to make mind-numbingly stupid play calls. Run the ball on 3rd and 18, followed by going for it on 4th and 15 with 3 minutes left???? Are you kidding me??? Punt the damn ball!!!
And Shurmur or th ST coach not telling Slayton to stay in the endzone on the KO is beyond stupid. Wasted 9 vital seconds and put his team in a hole.
Jones has a chance to fix the fumble problem. Shumur can't be fixed. He's a loser who will probably get another year that he doesn't deserve.
Giants will likely be in a position to take one of the top QBs next year. It's still early, but at this point I've seen enough from Jones to stay with him and trade down for a truckload of picks. Jones is incredibly accurate most of the time. He has to be to have any chance of success. He's throwing into very tight windows because his receivers can't get separation. It's also why he holds the ball too long, which leads to fumbles.
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
Just beat us on the road with an inferior roster. That should tell you all you need to know about this coaching staff.
You have to wonder about the inferior roster part. Johnson's backup ran for 130 yards and 3 td's. They've got a couple of legit linebackers, a pass rusher and a couple of decent db's. And they seem to have a helluva lot more speed than we do.
Are you suggesting that Shurmur didn't tell Solder and Remmers to do their best ballerina impressions?
Giants will likely be in a position to take one of the top QBs next year. It's still early, but at this point I've seen enough from Jones to stay with him and trade down for a truckload of picks. Jones is incredibly accurate most of the time. He has to be to have any chance of success. He's throwing into very tight windows because his receivers can't get separation. It's also why he holds the ball too long, which leads to fumbles.
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
Why TF would they take a QB next draft?
Don't throw in the towel. We were only one game out of first place
Just puts john and chris in front of a tv that is replaying the eighty six season, because if they watched today`s game, how could they not flat out release the entire clown show of management and coaching losers?
At this point I have to wonder if they even care. Perhaps they are just happy leading their uber-rich lives and eating caviar on their yachts.
Giants will likely be in a position to take one of the top QBs next year. It's still early, but at this point I've seen enough from Jones to stay with him and trade down for a truckload of picks. Jones is incredibly accurate most of the time. He has to be to have any chance of success. He's throwing into very tight windows because his receivers can't get separation. It's also why he holds the ball too long, which leads to fumbles.
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
Why TF would they take a QB next draft?
You misread my post. I said they shouldn't, at least based on what we've seen so far from Jones.
- This should cement the Giants as sellers for whatever few tradable assets who don't figure on the team in 2020.
- It's more school of hard knocks for Daniel Jones to go through the rookie growing pains and come out the better for it, and boy did he have them today in the beating he took
- Eyes wide open on who Shurmur is as a coach. He was able to hide last year thanks to a complete strip down of the roster. But we saw his natural tendency to screw up when he blew the game in Philly. This time, with more or less a full season of Jones, if Shurmur is causing problems in the decisions and game plan, this should signal to the Giants that while Jones might be the future, Shurmur just isn't the guy. He's a coordinator who can't hack it as a head man. I thought the Giants would give him 3 years by default, but I think we've all seen enough now. If you are targeting to win in 2020, do it with a coach who you can win with. That's not Shurmur.
Great post. Basically where I'm at after that game.
disagree with anything posted here about the OL or Shurmur.
But, please don't let these players off the hook. EE has a big play and flat drops it. We can't execute a f'ing FG. We can't open some creases for an explosive RB. SB decides to play rookie his first game back and twice loses substantial yardage (one helping take us out of FG range). The dreadful OL gives us 8 sacks, and deletes good plays with holding calls. Jones now has shown a real problem with ball security (which I hope will get better, but it doesn't seem like it's a hard thing to correct, but what were there 3 fumbles today on 8 sacks?)
My only item of hope is that if you give Jones just a little time, and a tiny bit of separation, I think he can be good. But, can we please for goodness sake some how, some way put just a semi-competent OL in front of the QB here?
As for Shurmur, please let me add to the list of misery the idea of 3 and 3 and we go empty with Saquon on the team. I mean, if a play action to SB doesn't hold the LBs for enough time to get open for 3 yards behind them...then that's not the 30th ranked D.
Barkley absolutely got Jones killed twice on the second to last drive. Btw I guess Im lucky missed most of the game. But I still get that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when they lose one they shouldve won
Giants will likely be in a position to take one of the top QBs next year. It's still early, but at this point I've seen enough from Jones to stay with him and trade down for a truckload of picks. Jones is incredibly accurate most of the time. He has to be to have any chance of success. He's throwing into very tight windows because his receivers can't get separation. It's also why he holds the ball too long, which leads to fumbles.
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
Why TF would they take a QB next draft?
You misread my post. I said they shouldn't, at least based on what we've seen so far from Jones.
It was your first sentence that I was responding to..Alls good. 😎
Eli was the problem or not. He is not the future so playing him offered nothing. At least we will find out what we have in Jones.
And if we don't have anything in Jones, Gettleman has to go.
I think he needs to go regardless. But I hope Jones is the guy but next year is a strong QB class imo (herbert,eason, and morrow are my favorites) and who knows what a new coach might want.
Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Almost all rookie QBs are turnover prone. The ints are not concerning. I am sure those will reduce. But the pocket presence is awful.
Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Im tired of hearing this. He looks like every other first round QB from the last two drafts. Up and down.
especially with a bad team around him. I still like what I see from him thus far.
Lets use all 14 games to make the assessment, look at his development and make a decision as to the draft next year. Not ruling out QB yet but lets see where we are in January.
Oh...and for you "arrow pointing up" guys...shut up for a while.
are underestimating how badly handicapped Jones is on most plays. Bad OL and receivers who can't separate. He's made some ridiculously accurate throws. It's mindless stubbornness and stupidity not to protect him better, either by using a sixth OL or benching Remmers.
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
Fuck no, but you have to be delusional to think Eli being in this game would lead to a W.
Why is it so hard to understand, nobody says put Eli back in, but everything he got blamed for is still happening now with Jones. The players around them suck. The organization has done nothing to help either qb. John Mara is def heading down the al davis type of owner
Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Get a coach who is not constantly calling scripted wco spacing/comeback routes against Tampa 2.
When this group took over. We need to see how things play out on full season, but as if this exact point in time, this is a bottom of the league team across the board.
- This should cement the Giants as sellers for whatever few tradable assets who don't figure on the team in 2020.
- It's more school of hard knocks for Daniel Jones to go through the rookie growing pains and come out the better for it, and boy did he have them today in the beating he took
- Eyes wide open on who Shurmur is as a coach. He was able to hide last year thanks to a complete strip down of the roster. But we saw his natural tendency to screw up when he blew the game in Philly. This time, with more or less a full season of Jones, if Shurmur is causing problems in the decisions and game plan, this should signal to the Giants that while Jones might be the future, Shurmur just isn't the guy. He's a coordinator who can't hack it as a head man. I thought the Giants would give him 3 years by default, but I think we've all seen enough now. If you are targeting to win in 2020, do it with a coach who you can win with. That's not Shurmur.
Great post. Basically where I'm at after that game. [/quote]
remember Gettleman's quote when he hired him "shurmur was the adult of those interviewed"
It was Eli's fault when this team looked like shit when they were missing key guys like in the Bills game. With Saq and EE back, they lose to a 2-3 team at home, but it is everyone's but Jones' fault.
Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Get a coach who is not constantly calling scripted wco spacing/comeback routes against Tampa 2.
You mean the same coach many on here were calling a QB whisperer and touting how good he was for his prior QBs? The excuse making on here is sad. Maybe the folks posting all the preseason stats were premature. Maybe not. But right now Jones looks about the same as many of the other first round QBs from past two drafts potential with some struggles. To say more is disingenuous. The jury is out.
It doesn't matter if he would or would not have done better. He's roughly same age as the opposing coach today and this team is behind shedule in a rebuild. Move the fuck on already.
are underestimating how badly handicapped Jones is on most plays. Bad OL and receivers who can't separate. He's made some ridiculously accurate throws. It's mindless stubbornness and stupidity not to protect him better, either by using a sixth OL or benching Remmers.
Good points. PS exposed him against the Patriots as well. No boots? I hate that we are in shotgun so much.
It was Eli's fault when this team looked like shit when they were missing key guys like in the Bills game. With Saq and EE back, they lose to a 2-3 team at home, but it is everyone's but Jones' fault.
Id love to know why people who found every excuse in the book for Eli over the course of 8-26 over 2+ seasons and 7 out of 8 losing seasons cant seem to apply the same logic to Jones?
It was Eli's fault when this team looked like shit when they were missing key guys like in the Bills game. With Saq and EE back, they lose to a 2-3 team at home, but it is everyone's but Jones' fault.
Who cares? I agree with you, but that train has left the station. Manning is not playing this year and he is gone after the season. Focus on the future.
DC's are getting more film on Jones and they are following the rookie qb pattern: stop Barkley, keep Jones in the pocket and make him win the game with these shitty wideouts and the mercurial Engram. They are jumping the slants.
So now, let's see how Jones responds. I am not worried about the qb fumbles. Sooner or later he will learn that he's not playing against North Carolina, that he is not getting away from some of these linemen and that he needs to put two hands on the ball.
It was Eli's fault when this team looked like shit when they were missing key guys like in the Bills game. With Saq and EE back, they lose to a 2-3 team at home, but it is everyone's but Jones' fault.
Because Jones has played in 5 games and Eli was a 15 vet that couldn't compete. Get it now?
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
Fuck no, but you have to be delusional to think Eli being in this game would lead to a W.
Except I never claimed that.
My point is that it's very amusing to think of the goofballs who thought that Eli was holding the team back, and once the switch was made, the team would be off and running towards restored glory.
It was Eli's fault when this team looked like shit when they were missing key guys like in the Bills game. With Saq and EE back, they lose to a 2-3 team at home, but it is everyone's but Jones' fault.
Because Jones has played in 5 games and Eli was a 15 vet that couldn't compete. Get it now?
No I don't get it. He totally sucks. ANd was never anything in college.
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
Fuck no, but you have to be delusional to think Eli being in this game would lead to a W.
Except I never claimed that.
My point is that it's very amusing to think of the goofballs who thought that Eli was holding the team back, and once the switch was made, the team would be off and running towards restored glory.
Yeah, how's that going?
Nobody claimed Eli was holding the team back. Nobody. The argument was and always has been that this team needed a full rebuild and that Eli at 38 years was finished and we needed growing pains with a rookie QB
With a Giants regime change pretty much guaranteed (Shurmur and Gettleman on borrowed time, but I do think they get the full season) will the next GM/Coach combo be onboard with Jones or will they perhaps draft another QB for 2020? Could be an Arizona Cardinals situation once again.
switching to a rookie QB would immediately turn this thing around. The point was to get the rookie in to make his mistakes now and get some valuable experience.
This thing stopped being about Eli YEARS ago. It took the top of the Giants organization a year and a half too long to figure that out and some of you are still in fucking lala land.
but, in my opinion, he's just not a good head coach. I don't think it's too early to make that assessment. You don't magically become a better head coach one day. He just doesn't seem to have the instinct and knowledge to lead and prepare a team. That includes his in-game decisions.
But, when we get past that, we have so many issues. I see a lot of good in Daniel Jones. He makes some really nice throws in some tight windows. Yet, he does have a turnover issue. He needs to improve on ball security and recognition of certain plays that lead to turnovers. I'm confident he can figure that out. I'm a big fan of him as our QB of the future.
It would help if our offensive line can block. They just can't. Teams consistently get pressure by rushing just four. The Cardinals did most of the game. It puts so much pressure on a young QB because, not only does he get pressured, but he has tighter windows to throw into the secondary with more men dropping back. It also seems like we can't open up a hole for the running game without holding. Saquon was clearly rusty and not all the way back today, but he had no room to run for most of the time.
Our receivers constantly drop passes. Some are contested plays, while others, like the Engram drop, are just drops in open spots. It's so hard to have consistent offensive play when you combine all that.
And that doesn't even get to our defense. My god, we can't tackle, take poor angles, over-pursue runners and struggle to get off the field on 3rd downs.
All in all, we're a bad football team with a few, young bright spots. That game was there to win today, but between Shurmur and all the mistakes, we get another loss.
Just beat us on the road with an inferior roster. That should tell you all you need to know about this coaching staff.
Thats pretty much how I felt and I can't state much more than already been said I still think DG has been good in the draft
free agency not so much . Shurmur is what he record says he is
a loser . Betchers defense was very ill prepared .
for a team he is very familiar with .
Even his body language is poor and always has this pathetic
look on his face like someome stole his lunch money .
Is he really helping Jones ? I don't think so or its not getting through . The O-line still needs a lot of help.
His game planning on offense is unknown .
BS people were not saying Eli was not holding them bck
A ton of goofs on here thought this was a winning team wo Eli. That includes the loser connection gettlemen n shumur .... why bring him back if you knew you were rebuilding and non competitive. They really thought this D might cut it in the nfl
The thing that kills me is that we passed on Patricia
For "Mr. Nice Guy." It is hard for me to really accept how clueless this organization is. We may still have something in Jones, but otherwise I don't see a lot of good moves. And I HATE Shurmer now. Just unwatchable football at this point. Sorry. Ranting over.
are underestimating how badly handicapped Jones is on most plays. Bad OL and receivers who can't separate. He's made some ridiculously accurate throws. It's mindless stubbornness and stupidity not to protect him better, either by using a sixth OL or benching Remmers.
No way you can blame one guy on the O-line, as a unit they are terrible.
that sucks is we're going to enter another offseason in which the oline is a big weakness. Going on for over 7 years. One would be like how, but the Giants wrote a master thesis on how.
that sucks is we're going to enter another offseason in which the oline is a big weakness. Going on for over 7 years. One would be like how, but the Giants wrote a master thesis on how.
With how many spots settled? 2. A lot of bluster to only settle two offensive line positions in two offseasons.
A ton of goofs on here thought this was a winning team wo Eli. That includes the loser connection gettlemen n shumur .... why bring him back if you knew you were rebuilding and non competitive. They really thought this D might cut it in the nfl
For "Mr. Nice Guy." It is hard for me to really accept how clueless this organization is. We may still have something in Jones, but otherwise I don't see a lot of good moves. And I HATE Shurmer now. Just unwatchable football at this point. Sorry. Ranting over.
The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.
Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Get a coach who is not constantly calling scripted wco spacing/comeback routes against Tampa 2.
Thats is a silly take. Shurmur is Jones' guy. What is the point of JOnes wo Shurmur ? Jones ends up a journeyman back up if this team doesn't start winning his fault or not since a new coach would mean no more jones
A huge difference between this year and last years catastrophe as far as performance and expectation.. Last year was a bottom which I hope I never have to witness again..... I think we will end up as an overall 6 for the season...as opposed to 2019's 3... Not so bad!
Just beat us on the road with an inferior roster. That should tell you all you need to know about this coaching staff.
Thats pretty much how I felt and I can't state much more than already been said I still think DG has been good in the draft
free agency not so much . Shurmur is what he record says he is
a loser . Betchers defense was very ill prepared .
for a team he is very familiar with .
Even his body language is poor and always has this pathetic
look on his face like someome stole his lunch money .
Is he really helping Jones ? I don't think so or its not getting through . The O-line still needs a lot of help.
His game planning on offense is unknown .
Bettcher was not familiar with that offense, new regime in Arizona.
Its better than Elis and its not bad for a rookie QB.
If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.
Its better than Elis and its not bad for a rookie QB.
If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.
eli wasnt the problem but he wasnt part of solutiob. jones is future. what the fuck dont people get? benching eli is common fucking sense
Its better than Elis and its not bad for a rookie QB.
If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.
eli wasnt the problem but he wasnt part of solutiob. jones is future. what the fuck dont people get? benching eli is common fucking sense
I've been supportive of Shurmur thus far, but I think today I'm done with him. I hope he turns it around, but I think the gameplan was pretty bad and some bad mental errors by the team I have to think coaching plays a part in. I still can't believe our final series.
So many negatives from this game I don't know where to start.
Overall, the most disturbing thing I see with this team is a serious lack of toughness, especially the defense. Continued missed tackles, soft against the run and totally unable to stop anyone on third and long. They made a free agent RB from s 1-AA college look like Emmitt Smith. There are a fair number of players on the D who aren't playing well (Hill, Carter, Ogletree, Bethea and Peppers) and most of the others are just adequate. Most notably, there are no true playmakers. I believe there is talent here but I think that Bettcher sucks as a coordinator. Way overrated. If he can't do better with what he has been given, he should be canned at the end of the year.
On offense, not much better. This was one of the worst blocking exhibitions I have seen from a Giants team since the 70's. Solder is putrid . Does not play with any power or an attitude. I don't think they made 5 yards running left today. And on the other side, Remmers is just average. They need two better tackles. At TE, Engram couldn't block my wife who is 5' tall. Should move him to WR and draft another TE like Ellison.
Jones has to learn that he can't hold the ball forever. A lot of those sacks today were on him. And he absolutely can't be fumbling the way he has been. He's starting to look way too much like Eli.
Lastly, and I've said it before but I don't think Shurmer is the coach for this team. He's never won as s head coach and he just doesn't look like a guy with the energy and positive attitude to be a winner. All of that being said, I'm predicting a 5-11 finish and another top 5 pick.
A ton of goofs on here thought this was a winning team wo Eli. That includes the loser connection gettlemen n shumur .... why bring him back if you knew you were rebuilding and non competitive. They really thought this D might cut it in the nfl
The owner wanted Eli back.
If that is true then this is on Gettlmen and he needs to go. Your boss is telling you to bring back a 38 yr old vet qb? That means this is not the time to go young rebuild but retain your talent in collins, snacks, and odel and pick Jones at 17 or not worry about it tell next year.
almost two weeks to prepare the defense was flat out putrid. Getting tired of his defenses.
Shurmur had the worst game plan/play calling I've seen since John McVay.
Jones has no feel for the pocket and protection or lack thereof. He has regressed.
Offensive line is, well offensive. All 5 of them.
Seems that nobody on defense wants to tackle low so they don't get carried 5 yards or shaken off.
DeOssie needs to be replaced. Another botched snap helping Rosas to miss that kick. I have no idea how Riley caught that ball let alone got it down for the attempt.
FWIW, Jones is a much better QB than Murray. Kid showed me nothing and it was clear his coach did not trust him to throw.
Saquan had two awful backwards runs to kill drives and take them out of FG range at the end of the 1st half.(Trying to do too much).
One good thing. Special teams is the one area of the team that is greatly improved. DeOssie needs to be replaced, but other than that, they are playing well.
but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest
Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.
but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest
Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.
Maybe you're right. But if we said the same thing about Eli after 5 starts we probably wouldn't have won 2 Super Bowls with him.
is circling the drain, and cannot seem to do much right these days. How long does it take to fix a fucking oline, a competitive defense? I know we have some talent problems, but our coaching is putrid. Not sure if these owners are just football only, but they should sell the team to someone that is committed to winning and will take the necessary steps to do it without half-measures and mickey mouse gimmicks. Do not expect to win much moving forward with this bunch, a losing culture that has a low accountability standard. We can aslo expect a revolving door of free agents that are has beens that cannot get it done. Truly pathetic product on that field today. Shocking considering they had so much time to prepare for a 2 win team that is at the bottom of the league as we are.
but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest
Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.
Maybe you're right. But if we said the same thing about Eli after 5 starts we probably wouldn't have won 2 Super Bowls with him.
Eli's 5 th start was against the #1 ranked Defense PittsburghStealers. He went 16 0f 23 with 2 tds 1 int and a 103.9 rating.
Yea if Jones put numbers like that up against the Vikes or Pats then yea maybe I would not have that opinion.
almost two weeks to prepare the defense was flat out putrid. Getting tired of his defenses.
Shurmur had the worst game plan/play calling I've seen since John McVay.
Jones has no feel for the pocket and protection or lack thereof. He has regressed.
Offensive line is, well offensive. All 5 of them.
Seems that nobody on defense wants to tackle low so they don't get carried 5 yards or shaken off.
DeOssie needs to be replaced. Another botched snap helping Rosas to miss that kick. I have no idea how Riley caught that ball let alone got it down for the attempt.
FWIW, Jones is a much better QB than Murray. Kid showed me nothing and it was clear his coach did not trust him to throw.
Saquan had two awful backwards runs to kill drives and take them out of FG range at the end of the 1st half.(Trying to do too much).
One good thing. Special teams is the one area of the team that is greatly improved. DeOssie needs to be replaced, but other than that, they are playing well.
This was by far Murray's fewest passing attempts in a game. I think it was more gameplan or in game plan than anything else. He threw better than i thought he would, and he did not run as well as I expected.
eli looked average to bad his first four starts in 04, but
definitely holds the ball too long. He needs to throw it away, not only to prevent fumbles, but also for his own safety. But he's a rookie, and the problem wouldn't exist to this extent if his receivers could separate.
this team was beaten before kickoff. They had no interest in playing in this weather and were so un prepared for it its crazy.
There is a reason Arizona didnt push the ball downfeild against our suspect pass d. They cam out ran the ball and then their D line just whooped up on us to the point where evey OL basically quit, by the 4th quarter they were thinking about their dinner plans and what happend on the bachelor last week. People need to be benched if they cant put out an effort.
RE: eli looked average to bad his first four starts in 04, but
his last three starts he was really good and almost led them to wins over cincinnati and pittsburgh before beating dallas to close the season.
so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.
Can't argue with this. But Eli took over a team that was winning. A team with more talent. And a team with a much better coach
Rookies are gonna struggle. Maybe its eaiser on them not to start off hot. Doesnt matter let him play fail and learn. This season is not about the playoffs and a lot of guys should be getting their cracks at the line up soon
With a Giants regime change pretty much guaranteed (Shurmur and Gettleman on borrowed time, but I do think they get the full season) will the next GM/Coach combo be onboard with Jones or will they perhaps draft another QB for 2020? Could be an Arizona Cardinals situation once again.
Seems to have worked for them
First off Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Secondly Jones has shown just as much this season as Darnold showed last year. He hasn't had the luxury of a solid OL, healthy weapons, or a good defense yet he has kept his team in nearly every game he has started including the world champs without Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Gallman.
RE: RE: The thing that kills me is that we passed on Patricia
The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.
One again you post this false narrative. It was proven that the Giants did not want Patricia. This was pointed out to you when you posted a baseless article from someone at ESPN who had no sources to support their claim. Patricia was never a finalist for the Giants job.
RE: RE: RE: The thing that kills me is that we passed on Patricia
The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.
One again you post this false narrative. It was proven that the Giants did not want Patricia. This was pointed out to you when you posted a baseless article from someone at ESPN who had no sources to support their claim. Patricia was never a finalist for the Giants job.
Maybe he should have been. Granted they could have hired a magic 8 ball and had similar or better results.
Can someone explain to me the James Bettcher defensive scheme?
- play 5 yards off receiver on 3rd/4th and 2
- play 10 yards off receiver on 3rd and 6
- play 15 yards off receiver on 3rd and 12
This was a team-wide bed shitting that ultimately falls at the feet of the head coach, especially considering how lifelessly the team started the game coming off extra rest. The defense looked non-competitive on some early running plays. The special teams mixed a punt block TD with a huge FG miss and boneheaded returns. The offense was equal parts bad play by o-line, mistakes by rookie QB, drops, and inexplicable plays by Saquon Barkley.
As I said when they made the move to Daniel Jones, this is as much about judging Pat Shurmur as it is about moving forward at QB. Right now, Shurmur looks to be in serious jeopardy with performances like this. He's like Andy Reid with none of his good qualities. I'm not much for analyzing post-game press conferences, but he doesn't really inspire much confidence there either.
Be sellers. Trade Jackrabbit. Trade Ogletree. Get as many draft picks as you can.
Dark era for the Giants and unless something changes real fast, things might get worse before better.
I feel all of that is gone. Back to feeling jaded. Just expecting them to screw up again.
Wonder why? The o line was brutal and there were key drops and horrid coaching.
Take a look at what Arizona did to us in our own stadium today. They picked #1 last year and are already better than the Giants.
Are we sure Gettlemen and coach are really the best guys to be leading this organization into the 2020s?
Thank you John Mara.
Thank you John Mara.
Try Halloween
brutal
Well at least we got 3 yards. If he went back to pass, sack by Chandler Jones and possibly a fumble.
He is a career loser.
hes the new Jameis Winston
Jones is very concerning with the turnovers. When he has time (rarely) he is making some good throws. Shurmur did not help very much and I really dislike his offense. I still think he has a bright future.
No changing coordinators, giving up play calling etc....he is not a HC and now the press will eat him alive.
This organization is lost
Shurmur is worse then MCadoo
Ditto Gettleman. Awful line, and we just got another lesson on why you don't draft a RB #2 overall.
The OL is a disaster. Pressure comes from the edges, and up the middle. The bad OL and receivers who can't separation are why Jones holds the ball for so long, and is throwing into incredibly tight windows even by NFL standards. Jones is holding the ball too long, but he's being regularly hammered.
I don't think the OL is any better than last year. At this point, I'd bench Remmers for Gates, or at least play a sixth OL. I also think Zeitler's shoulder is hurting. We can't move the ball.
It's also painfully apparent that we can't generate much pass rush, and yet again have no LBs who can cover.
I don't understand why we ran the ball on third and 20 when we were going to go for it on fourth down.
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And the QB coach needs to explain to Mr. Jones that one can't hold the ball for more then 3 seconds
Receivers not getting separation.
Throw it away! Or run
What does that mean? Peyton had 28 Ints and 26 TDs his rookie year
doesn't feel like this team is going anywhere. just as many, or more holes than when the rebuild began.
Missed assignments
Poor clock management
Questionable playcalls (and he set a new high water mark today)
Just to name a few. Today was absolutely inexcusable. Tired of this team ruining my Sundays.
A lot to hate about this game. It was a huge test for Shurmur and he failed miserably. Unfortunately, dont hold your breath if you want him canned at the end of this season. I doubt its happening.
So many plays left on the field. The o-line has regressed from first few weeks. Engram hasnt taken the next step as a player.
Jones has fumbling issues but the main problem I see with him is holding on to the football WAY too long. Its a huge issue. On the plus side there does seem to be a lot to work with with him but there is really no reason to believe Shurmur is the right guy moving forward.
Play the Giants and then ask for more money..
Exactly but watch some dumbasses still going after him
Trying not to overreact to a bad loss to a beatable team, but it really feels like this team just isnt getting better from either a personnel or structure perspective.
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Hes constantly under pressure, his receivers get ZERO separation out there, and his coach put him in the best position to succeed with his crappy play calling.
Exactly but watch some dumbasses still going after him
OL sucks, shurmur does him no favors
QB play today gets a D+
Catching the ball we get a D+
Wonder why? The o line was brutal and there were key drops and horrid coaching.
No he didnt. He looked like a rookie trying to play in Shurmurs scheme with a bad defense. Eli would have checked down more and made more experienced decisions which would have only made many fans more livid for some reason.
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7 INT and 5 fumbles. That is awful.
What does that mean? Peyton had 28 Ints and 26 TDs his rookie year
It means he turns the ball over too much and hes really gotta work on it. I dont think anyone is being unreasonable in their criticism. Hes gotta work on it. Takes dumb chances/forces it into tight windows and has no internal clock to speak of in the pocket.
the pocket collapse around him. he isnt fucking tyreek hill, there is nowhere for him to step up to run
Another system
Another draft
Whats this, like ten years now?
NY Giants football is just atrocious.
+ 1
are you insane??
Chandler Jones has more talent than our entire defense combined
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7 INT and 5 fumbles. That is awful.
What does that mean? Peyton had 28 Ints and 26 TDs his rookie year
How many fumbles? And lol if you think Jones is getting to 26 TDs.
This
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7 INT and 5 fumbles. That is awful.
hes the new Jameis Winston
Eli had a 55.4 QB rating his rookie season.
No, the actual one thing thats clear is that people desperately want it to be just one thing thats wrong with this team. And its not. Its close to a dozen.
-
He could start by firing his brother. The question has to be asked if Reese and Gettleman were just front men for Chris Mara.
Not necessarily depressing! If Jones doesn't look like the answer, we'll have quite a few promising QBs to choose from. Otherwise we can take an excellent DE, WR, CB, or safety, or even trade down.
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In comment 14636278 ryanmkeane said:
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7 INT and 5 fumbles. That is awful.
hes the new Jameis Winston
Eli had a 55.4 QB rating his rookie season.
Maybe it's a nostalgia filter, but I don't remember Eli coughing up the ball at the rate Jones does.
I bet the Giants ran more roll outs with Eli.
There's been little RPO or any kind of read-options.
doesn't feel like this team is going anywhere. just as many, or more holes than when the rebuild began.
There are more holes 🤦🏾♂️. This team needs a lot of help!
jones is the future. it was his FIFTH game...the OL sucks, the weather sucked and shurmur didnt do him a single favor.
- It's more school of hard knocks for Daniel Jones to go through the rookie growing pains and come out the better for it, and boy did he have them today in the beating he took
- Eyes wide open on who Shurmur is as a coach. He was able to hide last year thanks to a complete strip down of the roster. But we saw his natural tendency to screw up when he blew the game in Philly. This time, with more or less a full season of Jones, if Shurmur is causing problems in the decisions and game plan, this should signal to the Giants that while Jones might be the future, Shurmur just isn't the guy. He's a coordinator who can't hack it as a head man. I thought the Giants would give him 3 years by default, but I think we've all seen enough now. If you are targeting to win in 2020, do it with a coach who you can win with. That's not Shurmur.
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In comment 14636334 huygens20 said:
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In comment 14636278 ryanmkeane said:
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7 INT and 5 fumbles. That is awful.
hes the new Jameis Winston
Eli had a 55.4 QB rating his rookie season.
Maybe it's a nostalgia filter, but I don't remember Eli coughing up the ball at the rate Jones does.
No, but he also completed less than half of his passes.
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but the real problems syaty with mara and why this team has been the worst run franchise in football in the last 7 years . What hope is there for this to turn around as long as hes the owner ?
He could start by firing his brother. The question has to be asked if Reese and Gettleman were just front men for Chris Mara.
Yeah well that wont happen. And guess who is picking the next GM? Guess who is picking the next HC ?
We got an al davis, dan snyder, here and its about time fans start to wake up and realize it
5-11 is the best they can do.
They get shutout with Eli, fuck off.
i doubt he gets fired
What now, hope the Bills make the playoffs?
Shurmur continues to make mind-numbingly stupid play calls. Run the ball on 3rd and 18, followed by going for it on 4th and 15 with 3 minutes left???? Are you kidding me??? Punt the damn ball!!!
And Shurmur or th ST coach not telling Slayton to stay in the endzone on the KO is beyond stupid. Wasted 9 vital seconds and put his team in a hole.
Jones has a chance to fix the fumble problem. Shumur can't be fixed. He's a loser who will probably get another year that he doesn't deserve.
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In comment 14636278 ryanmkeane said:
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7 INT and 5 fumbles. That is awful.
What does that mean? Peyton had 28 Ints and 26 TDs his rookie year
How many fumbles? And lol if you think Jones is getting to 26 TDs.
I was mainly pointing out Peytons INTs, in response to posting DJs stats so far.
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
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Just beat us on the road with an inferior roster. That should tell you all you need to know about this coaching staff.
You have to wonder about the inferior roster part. Johnson's backup ran for 130 yards and 3 td's. They've got a couple of legit linebackers, a pass rusher and a couple of decent db's. And they seem to have a helluva lot more speed than we do.
Are you suggesting that Shurmur didn't tell Solder and Remmers to do their best ballerina impressions?
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
Why TF would they take a QB next draft?
Lets see how things go over the next few weeks...
At this point I have to wonder if they even care. Perhaps they are just happy leading their uber-rich lives and eating caviar on their yachts.
Jones was running for his life all day, Eli would have been murdered with that pass protection.
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Eli Manning was absolutely the problem.
Jones was running for his life all day, Eli would have been murdered with that pass protection.
A loss is a loss is a loss.
Lets see how things go over the next few weeks...
That's brave. That's the first and only positive post on this thread. Duck! 😁
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Eli Manning was absolutely the problem.
They get shutout with Eli, fuck off.
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
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Giants will likely be in a position to take one of the top QBs next year. It's still early, but at this point I've seen enough from Jones to stay with him and trade down for a truckload of picks. Jones is incredibly accurate most of the time. He has to be to have any chance of success. He's throwing into very tight windows because his receivers can't get separation. It's also why he holds the ball too long, which leads to fumbles.
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
Why TF would they take a QB next draft?
You misread my post. I said they shouldn't, at least based on what we've seen so far from Jones.
- It's more school of hard knocks for Daniel Jones to go through the rookie growing pains and come out the better for it, and boy did he have them today in the beating he took
- Eyes wide open on who Shurmur is as a coach. He was able to hide last year thanks to a complete strip down of the roster. But we saw his natural tendency to screw up when he blew the game in Philly. This time, with more or less a full season of Jones, if Shurmur is causing problems in the decisions and game plan, this should signal to the Giants that while Jones might be the future, Shurmur just isn't the guy. He's a coordinator who can't hack it as a head man. I thought the Giants would give him 3 years by default, but I think we've all seen enough now. If you are targeting to win in 2020, do it with a coach who you can win with. That's not Shurmur.
Great post. Basically where I'm at after that game.
But, please don't let these players off the hook. EE has a big play and flat drops it. We can't execute a f'ing FG. We can't open some creases for an explosive RB. SB decides to play rookie his first game back and twice loses substantial yardage (one helping take us out of FG range). The dreadful OL gives us 8 sacks, and deletes good plays with holding calls. Jones now has shown a real problem with ball security (which I hope will get better, but it doesn't seem like it's a hard thing to correct, but what were there 3 fumbles today on 8 sacks?)
My only item of hope is that if you give Jones just a little time, and a tiny bit of separation, I think he can be good. But, can we please for goodness sake some how, some way put just a semi-competent OL in front of the QB here?
As for Shurmur, please let me add to the list of misery the idea of 3 and 3 and we go empty with Saquon on the team. I mean, if a play action to SB doesn't hold the LBs for enough time to get open for 3 yards behind them...then that's not the 30th ranked D.
No one showed up at the skill positions except Tate.
The OL struggled in both facets.
And if we don't have anything in Jones, Gettleman has to go.
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In comment 14636565 AcidTest said:
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Giants will likely be in a position to take one of the top QBs next year. It's still early, but at this point I've seen enough from Jones to stay with him and trade down for a truckload of picks. Jones is incredibly accurate most of the time. He has to be to have any chance of success. He's throwing into very tight windows because his receivers can't get separation. It's also why he holds the ball too long, which leads to fumbles.
The OL is awful. DG has had two drafts and FA classes to fix it. I didn't expect it to be world class, but it is basically no better than it was when he first arrived. Solder, Halapio, and Remmers are the main culprits. What's worse is the refusal of the coaches to make any changes, or do anything to try and improve the OL.
Why TF would they take a QB next draft?
You misread my post. I said they shouldn't, at least based on what we've seen so far from Jones.
It was your first sentence that I was responding to..Alls good. 😎
if he doesn't stop with the TOs he'll be a backup in a year or 2.
and Shurmur shouldn't ever coach again for this team or any other.
and I'd be fine with Gettleman riding off in the sunset. He created this ugly beast.
and Barkely shouldn't be let off the hook - he was downright awful today. Blocking, running, catching.
what a shitshow today was = I am so f'ing frustrated by what we watched today.
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Eli Manning was absolutely the problem.
Jones was running for his life all day, Eli would have been murdered with that pass protection.
You're assuming manning hangs on to the ball as long as Jones.
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Eli was the problem or not. He is not the future so playing him offered nothing. At least we will find out what we have in Jones.
And if we don't have anything in Jones, Gettleman has to go.
I think he needs to go regardless. But I hope Jones is the guy but next year is a strong QB class imo (herbert,eason, and morrow are my favorites) and who knows what a new coach might want.
Almost all rookie QBs are turnover prone. The ints are not concerning. I am sure those will reduce. But the pocket presence is awful.
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In comment 14636397 Mr. Bungle said:
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Eli Manning was absolutely the problem.
They get shutout with Eli, fuck off.
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
Fuck no, but you have to be delusional to think Eli being in this game would lead to a W.
Lets use all 14 games to make the assessment, look at his development and make a decision as to the draft next year. Not ruling out QB yet but lets see where we are in January.
Oh...and for you "arrow pointing up" guys...shut up for a while.
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In comment 14636511 Default said:
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In comment 14636397 Mr. Bungle said:
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Eli Manning was absolutely the problem.
They get shutout with Eli, fuck off.
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
Fuck no, but you have to be delusional to think Eli being in this game would lead to a W.
Why is it so hard to understand, nobody says put Eli back in, but everything he got blamed for is still happening now with Jones. The players around them suck. The organization has done nothing to help either qb. John Mara is def heading down the al davis type of owner
Get a coach who is not constantly calling scripted wco spacing/comeback routes against Tampa 2.
You have more intestinal fortitude than I do.
Nobody likes losing but their faces told a different story today (even on TV).
Anybody see the same?
- This should cement the Giants as sellers for whatever few tradable assets who don't figure on the team in 2020.
- It's more school of hard knocks for Daniel Jones to go through the rookie growing pains and come out the better for it, and boy did he have them today in the beating he took
- Eyes wide open on who Shurmur is as a coach. He was able to hide last year thanks to a complete strip down of the roster. But we saw his natural tendency to screw up when he blew the game in Philly. This time, with more or less a full season of Jones, if Shurmur is causing problems in the decisions and game plan, this should signal to the Giants that while Jones might be the future, Shurmur just isn't the guy. He's a coordinator who can't hack it as a head man. I thought the Giants would give him 3 years by default, but I think we've all seen enough now. If you are targeting to win in 2020, do it with a coach who you can win with. That's not Shurmur.
Great post. Basically where I'm at after that game. [/quote]
remember Gettleman's quote when he hired him "shurmur was the adult of those interviewed"
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Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Get a coach who is not constantly calling scripted wco spacing/comeback routes against Tampa 2.
And what happened to the stout interior DL we keep hearing about?
Good points. PS exposed him against the Patriots as well. No boots? I hate that we are in shotgun so much.
Id love to know why people who found every excuse in the book for Eli over the course of 8-26 over 2+ seasons and 7 out of 8 losing seasons cant seem to apply the same logic to Jones?
DC's are getting more film on Jones and they are following the rookie qb pattern: stop Barkley, keep Jones in the pocket and make him win the game with these shitty wideouts and the mercurial Engram. They are jumping the slants.
So now, let's see how Jones responds. I am not worried about the qb fumbles. Sooner or later he will learn that he's not playing against North Carolina, that he is not getting away from some of these linemen and that he needs to put two hands on the ball.
Because Jones has played in 5 games and Eli was a 15 vet that couldn't compete. Get it now?
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In comment 14636511 Default said:
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In comment 14636397 Mr. Bungle said:
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Eli Manning was absolutely the problem.
They get shutout with Eli, fuck off.
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
Fuck no, but you have to be delusional to think Eli being in this game would lead to a W.
Except I never claimed that.
My point is that it's very amusing to think of the goofballs who thought that Eli was holding the team back, and once the switch was made, the team would be off and running towards restored glory.
Yeah, how's that going?
Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach
8-25 over 3 seasons
38-58 over last 7 seasons
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Q and A after this game. Hes an idiot. His answers expose his lack of understanding on running a game
You have more intestinal fortitude than I do.
I almost threw up. Hard to hold back!
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It was Eli's fault when this team looked like shit when they were missing key guys like in the Bills game. With Saq and EE back, they lose to a 2-3 team at home, but it is everyone's but Jones' fault.
Because Jones has played in 5 games and Eli was a 15 vet that couldn't compete. Get it now?
No I don't get it. He totally sucks. ANd was never anything in college.
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In comment 14636611 Mr. Bungle said:
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In comment 14636511 Default said:
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In comment 14636397 Mr. Bungle said:
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Eli Manning was absolutely the problem.
They get shutout with Eli, fuck off.
Oh, did scoring points today count as a win for you?
Fuck no, but you have to be delusional to think Eli being in this game would lead to a W.
Except I never claimed that.
My point is that it's very amusing to think of the goofballs who thought that Eli was holding the team back, and once the switch was made, the team would be off and running towards restored glory.
Yeah, how's that going?
Nobody claimed Eli was holding the team back. Nobody. The argument was and always has been that this team needed a full rebuild and that Eli at 38 years was finished and we needed growing pains with a rookie QB
Seems to have worked for them
This thing stopped being about Eli YEARS ago. It took the top of the Giants organization a year and a half too long to figure that out and some of you are still in fucking lala land.
Fucking guy is clueless.
In comment 14636818 bluesince56 said:
But, when we get past that, we have so many issues. I see a lot of good in Daniel Jones. He makes some really nice throws in some tight windows. Yet, he does have a turnover issue. He needs to improve on ball security and recognition of certain plays that lead to turnovers. I'm confident he can figure that out. I'm a big fan of him as our QB of the future.
It would help if our offensive line can block. They just can't. Teams consistently get pressure by rushing just four. The Cardinals did most of the game. It puts so much pressure on a young QB because, not only does he get pressured, but he has tighter windows to throw into the secondary with more men dropping back. It also seems like we can't open up a hole for the running game without holding. Saquon was clearly rusty and not all the way back today, but he had no room to run for most of the time.
Our receivers constantly drop passes. Some are contested plays, while others, like the Engram drop, are just drops in open spots. It's so hard to have consistent offensive play when you combine all that.
And that doesn't even get to our defense. My god, we can't tackle, take poor angles, over-pursue runners and struggle to get off the field on 3rd downs.
All in all, we're a bad football team with a few, young bright spots. That game was there to win today, but between Shurmur and all the mistakes, we get another loss.
Just all very frustrating.
Thats pretty much how I felt and I can't state much more than already been said I still think DG has been good in the draft
free agency not so much . Shurmur is what he record says he is
a loser . Betchers defense was very ill prepared .
for a team he is very familiar with .
Even his body language is poor and always has this pathetic
look on his face like someome stole his lunch money .
Is he really helping Jones ? I don't think so or its not getting through . The O-line still needs a lot of help.
His game planning on offense is unknown .
No way you can blame one guy on the O-line, as a unit they are terrible.
With how many spots settled? 2. A lot of bluster to only settle two offensive line positions in two offseasons.
2nd tier all, and Maras reluctance or ignorance to pay for top notch coaching talent.
its game FIVE. do you undertand? this was his FIRST game with all the talent back and he didnt have shepard.
he hasnt had his players in full ONCE. sloppy conditions today too. i am sorry but you ugys are getting crazy here.
givet he kid time. he is oging to make mistakes he is a rookie
The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.
Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach
8-25 over 3 seasons
38-58 over last 7 seasons
2-3 is not a good record!
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Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3
Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach
8-25 over 3 seasons
38-58 over last 7 seasons
2-3 is not a good record!
Its better than Elis and its not bad for a rookie QB.
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Get a few WR who can get open so he doesnt have to hold the ball and a couple OL who can at least stand in front of their man and you will see a top 10 QB easy.
Get a coach who is not constantly calling scripted wco spacing/comeback routes against Tampa 2.
Thats is a silly take. Shurmur is Jones' guy. What is the point of JOnes wo Shurmur ? Jones ends up a journeyman back up if this team doesn't start winning his fault or not since a new coach would mean no more jones
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Just beat us on the road with an inferior roster. That should tell you all you need to know about this coaching staff.
Thats pretty much how I felt and I can't state much more than already been said I still think DG has been good in the draft
free agency not so much . Shurmur is what he record says he is
a loser . Betchers defense was very ill prepared .
for a team he is very familiar with .
Even his body language is poor and always has this pathetic
look on his face like someome stole his lunch money .
Is he really helping Jones ? I don't think so or its not getting through . The O-line still needs a lot of help.
His game planning on offense is unknown .
Bettcher was not familiar with that offense, new regime in Arizona.
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In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:
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Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3
Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach
8-25 over 3 seasons
38-58 over last 7 seasons
2-3 is not a good record!
Its better than Elis and its not bad for a rookie QB.
If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.
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In comment 14636904 Big_N said:
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In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:
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Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3
Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach
8-25 over 3 seasons
38-58 over last 7 seasons
2-3 is not a good record!
Its better than Elis and its not bad for a rookie QB.
If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.
eli wasnt the problem but he wasnt part of solutiob. jones is future. what the fuck dont people get? benching eli is common fucking sense
OL needs work
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Cardinals had an astounding 12 tackles for losses in this game. You can't win like that.
OL needs work
My bad....12 QB hits, 8 sacks, 7 tackles for losses.
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In comment 14636936 Eric from BBI said:
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Cardinals had an astounding 12 tackles for losses in this game. You can't win like that.
OL needs work
My bad....12 QB hits, 8 sacks, 7 tackles for losses.
my statement remains lol
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In comment 14636911 twostepgiants said:
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In comment 14636904 Big_N said:
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In comment 14636807 twostepgiants said:
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Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3
Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach
8-25 over 3 seasons
38-58 over last 7 seasons
2-3 is not a good record!
Its better than Elis and its not bad for a rookie QB.
If eli was the problem they should be winning 3 in a row... NOT LOSING 3 IN A ROW! There only wins came from a missed chip shot and playing a winless team.
eli wasnt the problem but he wasnt part of solutiob. jones is future. what the fuck dont people get? benching eli is common fucking sense
yea i agree.
Overall, the most disturbing thing I see with this team is a serious lack of toughness, especially the defense. Continued missed tackles, soft against the run and totally unable to stop anyone on third and long. They made a free agent RB from s 1-AA college look like Emmitt Smith. There are a fair number of players on the D who aren't playing well (Hill, Carter, Ogletree, Bethea and Peppers) and most of the others are just adequate. Most notably, there are no true playmakers. I believe there is talent here but I think that Bettcher sucks as a coordinator. Way overrated. If he can't do better with what he has been given, he should be canned at the end of the year.
On offense, not much better. This was one of the worst blocking exhibitions I have seen from a Giants team since the 70's. Solder is putrid . Does not play with any power or an attitude. I don't think they made 5 yards running left today. And on the other side, Remmers is just average. They need two better tackles. At TE, Engram couldn't block my wife who is 5' tall. Should move him to WR and draft another TE like Ellison.
Jones has to learn that he can't hold the ball forever. A lot of those sacks today were on him. And he absolutely can't be fumbling the way he has been. He's starting to look way too much like Eli.
Lastly, and I've said it before but I don't think Shurmer is the coach for this team. He's never won as s head coach and he just doesn't look like a guy with the energy and positive attitude to be a winner. All of that being said, I'm predicting a 5-11 finish and another top 5 pick.
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A ton of goofs on here thought this was a winning team wo Eli. That includes the loser connection gettlemen n shumur .... why bring him back if you knew you were rebuilding and non competitive. They really thought this D might cut it in the nfl
The owner wanted Eli back.
If that is true then this is on Gettlmen and he needs to go. Your boss is telling you to bring back a 38 yr old vet qb? That means this is not the time to go young rebuild but retain your talent in collins, snacks, and odel and pick Jones at 17 or not worry about it tell next year.
Shurmur had the worst game plan/play calling I've seen since John McVay.
Jones has no feel for the pocket and protection or lack thereof. He has regressed.
Offensive line is, well offensive. All 5 of them.
Seems that nobody on defense wants to tackle low so they don't get carried 5 yards or shaken off.
DeOssie needs to be replaced. Another botched snap helping Rosas to miss that kick. I have no idea how Riley caught that ball let alone got it down for the attempt.
FWIW, Jones is a much better QB than Murray. Kid showed me nothing and it was clear his coach did not trust him to throw.
Saquan had two awful backwards runs to kill drives and take them out of FG range at the end of the 1st half.(Trying to do too much).
One good thing. Special teams is the one area of the team that is greatly improved. DeOssie needs to be replaced, but other than that, they are playing well.
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Eli Manning is 0-2 this year and Jones is 2-3
Eli is 5-13 over 2 seasons with this coach
8-25 over 3 seasons
38-58 over last 7 seasons
2-3 is not a good record!
Please don't feed this week's troll. Just another shit stirrer.
yea there's a thought like Paul Newman is Slapshot. We need the Hansons on D too
Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.
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but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest
Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.
Maybe you're right. But if we said the same thing about Eli after 5 starts we probably wouldn't have won 2 Super Bowls with him.
His pocket awareness may be my single biggest concern about him. He has flashed in all other areas
This may the stupidest post in the history of BBI
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And im sorry, the qb might be menally retarded.
This may the stupidest post in the history of BBI
Agree, and there have been a lot of awful posts, though I would say one guy telling DG to die takes the cake.
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In comment 14637023 Thunderstruck27 said:
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but you're not going to be able to get a refund for the Eli jersey you just bought. Give it a rest
Ha I only have a Collins Jersey ; Kerry not Landon. But all the Jones jerseyers from after the Bucs game might want to go looking for their receipt and return policy.
Maybe you're right. But if we said the same thing about Eli after 5 starts we probably wouldn't have won 2 Super Bowls with him.
Eli's 5 th start was against the #1 ranked Defense PittsburghStealers. He went 16 0f 23 with 2 tds 1 int and a 103.9 rating.
Yea if Jones put numbers like that up against the Vikes or Pats then yea maybe I would not have that opinion.
Shurmur had the worst game plan/play calling I've seen since John McVay.
Jones has no feel for the pocket and protection or lack thereof. He has regressed.
Offensive line is, well offensive. All 5 of them.
Seems that nobody on defense wants to tackle low so they don't get carried 5 yards or shaken off.
DeOssie needs to be replaced. Another botched snap helping Rosas to miss that kick. I have no idea how Riley caught that ball let alone got it down for the attempt.
FWIW, Jones is a much better QB than Murray. Kid showed me nothing and it was clear his coach did not trust him to throw.
Saquan had two awful backwards runs to kill drives and take them out of FG range at the end of the 1st half.(Trying to do too much).
One good thing. Special teams is the one area of the team that is greatly improved. DeOssie needs to be replaced, but other than that, they are playing well.
so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.
Sadly. You are correct
There is a reason Arizona didnt push the ball downfeild against our suspect pass d. They cam out ran the ball and then their D line just whooped up on us to the point where evey OL basically quit, by the 4th quarter they were thinking about their dinner plans and what happend on the bachelor last week. People need to be benched if they cant put out an effort.
so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.
Can't argue with this. But Eli took over a team that was winning. A team with more talent. And a team with a much better coach
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his last three starts he was really good and almost led them to wins over cincinnati and pittsburgh before beating dallas to close the season.
so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.
Can't argue with this. But Eli took over a team that was winning. A team with more talent. And a team with a much better coach
Eli was god awful for a while, especially the infamous Baltimore game. Jones has looked better in his first few starts.
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his last three starts he was really good and almost led them to wins over cincinnati and pittsburgh before beating dallas to close the season.
so far jones has looked worse every game since tampa bay. he looks like a sloppy quarterback at this point. its concerning.
Can't argue with this. But Eli took over a team that was winning. A team with more talent. And a team with a much better coach
Rookies are gonna struggle. Maybe its eaiser on them not to start off hot. Doesnt matter let him play fail and learn. This season is not about the playoffs and a lot of guys should be getting their cracks at the line up soon
Stupid take.
Seems to have worked for them
First off Gettleman isn't going anywhere. Secondly Jones has shown just as much this season as Darnold showed last year. He hasn't had the luxury of a solid OL, healthy weapons, or a good defense yet he has kept his team in nearly every game he has started including the world champs without Barkley, Shepard, Engram, and Gallman.
The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.
One again you post this false narrative. It was proven that the Giants did not want Patricia. This was pointed out to you when you posted a baseless article from someone at ESPN who had no sources to support their claim. Patricia was never a finalist for the Giants job.
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The Giants were had their choice of Patricia or Shurmur. They wanted Patricia but had to settle for Shurmur. Neither are good coaches.
One again you post this false narrative. It was proven that the Giants did not want Patricia. This was pointed out to you when you posted a baseless article from someone at ESPN who had no sources to support their claim. Patricia was never a finalist for the Giants job.
Maybe he should have been. Granted they could have hired a magic 8 ball and had similar or better results.
- play 5 yards off receiver on 3rd/4th and 2
- play 10 yards off receiver on 3rd and 6
- play 15 yards off receiver on 3rd and 12
This was a team-wide bed shitting that ultimately falls at the feet of the head coach, especially considering how lifelessly the team started the game coming off extra rest. The defense looked non-competitive on some early running plays. The special teams mixed a punt block TD with a huge FG miss and boneheaded returns. The offense was equal parts bad play by o-line, mistakes by rookie QB, drops, and inexplicable plays by Saquon Barkley.
As I said when they made the move to Daniel Jones, this is as much about judging Pat Shurmur as it is about moving forward at QB. Right now, Shurmur looks to be in serious jeopardy with performances like this. He's like Andy Reid with none of his good qualities. I'm not much for analyzing post-game press conferences, but he doesn't really inspire much confidence there either.