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You can only play the guys youíre given. Itís Gettleman.

huygens20 : 10/20/2019 6:05 pm
When I look at this roster Iím asking, are we underperforming?

This team has a DL With edge guys that are playing 30-50 snaps a game that wouldnít even play 10 snaps on a top 15 defense. Bettchers entire scheme is predicated Iím getting pressure upfront and being able to play zone and force turnovers on the backend. He has no edge or olb that can rush besides an occasional Golden effort play. Besides that there is no rush.


The nfl is all about matchups

Some offenses are good against specific schemes

And

Some schemes require specific and impact players at certain positions

For instance: bettchers backend zone in the secondary is completely dependent on getting pressure up front. Bettcher doesnít have the players to play zone, thatís why we are giving up these insanely long drives with tons of 3rd down conversions.


Bettcher and shurmur can only play the guys they are given. I think the failure of the offensive line (solder has been a huge bust and is a bottom third OT) is square on the shoulder of Gettleman. How can DG draft a nose tackle When he hired a coach that needs edge rushers to succeed

And it gets worse

Dg drafted a cornerback that primarily played man coverage in college, when he knew bettcher was going to primarily play zone Bc thatís his scheme


We picked the top man coverage cb and made him play zone as a rookie. Instead of picking the top zone coverage cb. This is a Gettleman issue Not bettcher or shurmur
name a coach in the NFL worse than shurmur.  
japanhead : 10/20/2019 6:08 pm : link
adam gase? jason garrett? there aren't many, if any
can't  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/20/2019 6:09 pm : link
we all just get along and blame everyone?


I can't fathom any Giants fan defending this coaching staff, outside of McGaughey, at this point.
It's Mara. It's Gettleman. It's Shurmur.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/20/2019 6:11 pm : link
All of them suck.

So sick of this shit.
trying to fit players to scheme  
Giants_West : 10/20/2019 6:12 pm : link
is a sure fire recipe to losing football.

You need to adjust what you do to match the guys you have on your roster. The coaches who do that well are competing for the playoffs every year. the coaches who don't...
Gettleman is not the problem  
NYRiese : 10/20/2019 6:13 pm : link
Shurmur and his coaching staff are the problem.
It should be obvious.
IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS.
Bettcher  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/20/2019 6:14 pm : link
had a pretty stacked defense in Arizona.

One thing I hate with coaches is being married to a scheme. The question should be is he getting the most out of the available talent? Is he adjusting scheme to fit personnel?

For the record, I believe Bettcher was the one who was pounding the table for Baker and don't be surprised if Lawrence makes a few pro bowls.
For those saying itís all the coaches  
Jersey Heel : 10/20/2019 6:17 pm : link
Who hired them?
Iím gonna tell you a secret  
Fast Eddie : 10/20/2019 6:19 pm : link
About survival as a Giants fan..........stop giving a shit
Its obvious this coaching staff sucks.  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/20/2019 6:19 pm : link
Betcher had 10 days to prepare for this offense and it looked lost schematically.

Shurmur is fucking awful with game management, just like he was in Cleveland, and is a total fucking weenie. The media is going to make this ugly, at least his press conferences should be interesting, this isn't Minnesotta you weenie, the media will make this guy with a awful career WL look bad. His record will constantly get brought up.
RE: Bettcher  
huygens20 : 10/20/2019 6:19 pm : link
In comment 14637105 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
had a pretty stacked defense in Arizona.

One thing I hate with coaches is being married to a scheme. The question should be is he getting the most out of the available talent? Is he adjusting scheme to fit personnel?

For the record, I believe Bettcher was the one who was pounding the table for Baker and don't be surprised if Lawrence makes a few pro bowls.


I agree

Bettcher had an amazing defense when he had great players

And I do remember the rumor that bettcher liked baker pick. But I cannot reconcile th fact that we took the top man cover corner and asked him to play 80% zone as a rookie

Does that make sense ???
RE: For those saying itís all the coaches  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/20/2019 6:20 pm : link
In comment 14637113 Jersey Heel said:
Quote:
Who hired them?


And hopefully DG realizes his mistake and fires him, like he does his players. I have faith in him, but there is no way you can bring him back and still have me on board, no way.
RE: RE: Bettcher  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/20/2019 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14637118 huygens20 said:
Quote:
In comment 14637105 Lines of Scrimmage said:


Quote:


had a pretty stacked defense in Arizona.

One thing I hate with coaches is being married to a scheme. The question should be is he getting the most out of the available talent? Is he adjusting scheme to fit personnel?

For the record, I believe Bettcher was the one who was pounding the table for Baker and don't be surprised if Lawrence makes a few pro bowls.



I agree

Bettcher had an amazing defense when he had great players

And I do remember the rumor that bettcher liked baker pick. But I cannot reconcile th fact that we took the top man cover corner and asked him to play 80% zone as a rookie

Does that make sense ???


No it does not make sense. What does that say about Bettcher then!?
DGís players have not performed  
Vanzetti : 10/20/2019 6:25 pm : link
Hernandez and Hill have regressed

Baker getting better but still subpar
Peppers is awful at safety
Tree is mediocre

Danny Jones looking less and less like the answer
DGís players have not performed  
Vanzetti : 10/20/2019 6:27 pm : link
Hernandez and Hill have regressed

Baker getting better but still subpar
Peppers is awful at safety
Tree is mediocre

Danny Jones looking less and less like the answer

Lsuletta is gone
Love looks like a bust

Lawrence, Coonnrlly and Slayton look like good picks but really both drafts are questionable right now
Head coach  
bluepepper : 10/20/2019 6:29 pm : link
with a rookie QB and very little talent on defense shouldn't take the blame alone. And I doubt Mara is blaming him. The Giants usual MO is to start canning coordinators so Bettcher is the one on the hot seat which is not totally unfair since we switched to a 3-4 for him and brought in some players he liked who except for Golden have all sucked.
RE: Head coach  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/20/2019 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14637146 bluepepper said:
Quote:
with a rookie QB and very little talent on defense shouldn't take the blame alone. And I doubt Mara is blaming him. The Giants usual MO is to start canning coordinators so Bettcher is the one on the hot seat which is not totally unfair since we switched to a 3-4 for him and brought in some players he liked who except for Golden have all sucked.


I have seen this before on the site. What has PS done to deserve that opportunity?
It can be both. They're not mutually exclusive.  
Anakim : 10/20/2019 6:42 pm : link
Gettleman hasn't done a good job, but Shurmur has what? A .250 winning percentage? He's a career loser as a HC. He's the modern-day Norv Turner.
RE: It can be both. They're not mutually exclusive.  
jcn56 : 10/20/2019 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14637186 Anakim said:
Quote:
Gettleman hasn't done a good job, but Shurmur has what? A .250 winning percentage? He's a career loser as a HC. He's the modern-day Norv Turner.


The problem is Gettleman is responsible for both the players and the coaches.

Not sure why anyone is surprised. An org in desperate need of an overhaul brings back an old exec, retains their scouts, hires a retread coach with a failed record and hangs on to their franchise QB for too long. The better question is why did people think things would improve?
It's the whole politburo running the team  
Go Terps : 10/20/2019 6:57 pm : link
John Mara
Steve Tisch
Chris Mara
Dave Gettleman
Kevin Abrams
Pat Shurmur
Ernie Accorsi (on retainer)

7 people that have had a hand in critical, franchise shaping decisions. We're bringing a bureaucracy filled with different agendas to an arena where resources and opportunities for improvement are extremely limited.

The problem is the structure.
You are making excuses with the  
Diver_Down : 10/20/2019 6:59 pm : link
"play the guys that you're given". DG is not deciding to draft players or sign players in a vacuum. The coaching staff are endorsing players that drafted or signed in FA. If you want to use the excuse of guys that you're given, then in Bettcher case he is given Jenkins and Tomlinson as holdovers from the last regime. Otherwise, these are all Bettcher Boys.
RE: RE: It can be both. They're not mutually exclusive.  
huygens20 : 10/20/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14637228 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14637186 Anakim said:


Quote:


Gettleman hasn't done a good job, but Shurmur has what? A .250 winning percentage? He's a career loser as a HC. He's the modern-day Norv Turner.



The problem is Gettleman is responsible for both the players and the coaches.

Not sure why anyone is surprised. An org in desperate need of an overhaul brings back an old exec, retains their scouts, hires a retread coach with a failed record and hangs on to their franchise QB for too long. The better question is why did people think things would improve?


Nailed it
RE: Iím gonna tell you a secret  
BlueHurricane : 10/20/2019 7:57 pm : link
In comment 14637115 Fast Eddie said:
Quote:
About survival as a Giants fan..........stop giving a shit


Itís getting to that point. Which is sad.
Lol  
WillVAB : 10/20/2019 10:08 pm : link
Arizona didnít need the personnel excuse to come into our place and beat the shit out of the Giants today.

The coaching staff sucks. Thereís no reason why the Giants shouldíve lost today.
Anakim  
Marty866b : 10/20/2019 10:11 pm : link
Bingo!!!
RE: Lol  
islander1 : 10/20/2019 10:30 pm : link
In comment 14637773 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Arizona didnít need the personnel excuse to come into our place and beat the shit out of the Giants today.

The coaching staff sucks. Thereís no reason why the Giants shouldíve lost today.


Totally agree. This team was badly outcoached, and my head still hurts as to why we're still married to a defensive scheme we don't have the personnel for.
RE: You are making excuses with the  
jcn56 : 10/20/2019 11:02 pm : link
In comment 14637261 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
"play the guys that you're given". DG is not deciding to draft players or sign players in a vacuum. The coaching staff are endorsing players that drafted or signed in FA. If you want to use the excuse of guys that you're given, then in Bettcher case he is given Jenkins and Tomlinson as holdovers from the last regime. Otherwise, these are all Bettcher Boys.


And with the exception of a handful of players, all of them - players and coaches alike - are Gettleman's Boys. One Giant Shitshow.
Do that many people truly forget that Gettleman HIRED Shurmur?  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 12:06 am : link
Apparently so, since I keep reading "It's not Gettleman's fault, it's Shurmur's".

'Itís Gettleman.'  
Torrag : 10/21/2019 1:15 am : link
I don't think so. It's a work in progress. This was always going to be a three year process to compete for a post season berth.

What's obvious is starting a rookie QB two games into his career behind a so so O-line isn't very bright. Now we all have to hope it pays dividends for the future as it did when Eli was so lousy out of the gate. As Jones has been for the majority of his P/T.

Solder was a mistake. I wasn't a believer at the time and while he's better than flowers and any other OT we have sadly that's not much of an endorsement. That said if the center Shurmur insists on playing was even functional the group would be faring much better overall.

Now it's all about the future so the coaching staff better get their heads out of their collective ass and get the young guys in so they can be ready to contribute next year.
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