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As expected, defenses starting to gameplan Jones

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/20/2019 6:45 pm
This often happens. New QB comes out hot. Leagues catches up with them. Now it's up to Jones to see if he can adjust.


Kimberly Jones
@KimJonesSports

45s
1. Patrick Peterson tells me vs Daniel Jones, @AZCardinals
wanted to close middle of field, give him confusing looks & play coverage. ďWe saw he had trouble with that 2-shell against NE.Ē
2. PP clearly preferred to talk to @DeionSanders
(as he also did).
& #128514;
#AZvsNYG
We  
broadbandz : 10/20/2019 6:48 pm : link
had tons of game film on Kyler and still had no idea how to stop that offense for most of the game. AZ looked like the outdoor bad weather team and the giants looked like a dome team.
I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/20/2019 6:48 pm : link
He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.
I missed the first interception  
McNally's_Nuts : 10/20/2019 6:50 pm : link
Because I was playing Bethpage Black, how bad was it?

He had two killer drops by Engram and Fowler too.

And he picked the middle of the field with Tate regular basis. Donít get the comment
RE: I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
Sean : 10/20/2019 6:52 pm : link
In comment 14637217 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.


He makes some incredible throws in tight windows. Needs to improve ball security.
Jones  
NewBlue : 10/20/2019 6:53 pm : link
As was Manning the least of our problems....the idea is for someone to come in and be our leader, while we can all say it's very early in his career and it is, I know what I am looking for, plenty of time for him to show it, but in my mind it is not a given that he is the answer.

RE: I missed the first interception  
M.S. : 10/20/2019 6:53 pm : link
In comment 14637223 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
Because I was playing Bethpage Black, how bad was it?

He had two killer drops by Engram and Fowler too.

And he picked the middle of the field with Tate regular basis. Donít get the comment

He first INT was a huge fucking mistake by out rookie QB! He threw a ball where only two Cardinals could catch it, His receiver was totally blanketed. Really quite ugly.
I see this  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/20/2019 6:53 pm : link
more of a indictment on Shurmur. If the defense takes something away then call plays that take advantage.

One thing I am seeing is that when they can't run the ball the offense goes to crap.

RE: RE: I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/20/2019 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14637233 Sean said:
Quote:
In comment 14637217 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.



He makes some incredible throws in tight windows. Needs to improve ball security.


Sean, agrees. He'll hopefully clean up on that. I still think he's the goods.
That throw to Slayton  
McNally's_Nuts : 10/20/2019 6:54 pm : link
On the dig route was awesome.

He has incredible accuracy. Yes, growing pains but I believe he will come out of them
3 missing elements on O  
idiotsavant : 10/20/2019 6:54 pm : link
1. Reliable outside zone runs.
2. Instantness on runs.
3. _Designed_ QB runs (more instant than broken play QB runs).

All 3 - things that help an OL have success!

Today looked like Macadoo Ball.

Note to Mara's. Fans are mostly.systrm agnostic, not on a high horse. High floor low ceiling with a running QB coupled with tough D is more fun to watch than "high ceiling lots of potential A list stuff, but it's not functioning right now, sorry "

RE: I see this  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 10/20/2019 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14637238 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
more of a indictment on Shurmur. If the defense takes something away then call plays that take advantage.

One thing I am seeing is that when they can't run the ball the offense goes to crap.


Agree 100%
RE: I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
mrvax : 10/20/2019 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14637217 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.


Seemed to me that the few times DJ had time to throw, he had some nice passes. He also made some good plays with his legs.
Our Giants have had crappy Olines since around 2011.

Teams that want to stop DJ merely need to attack the porous Oline over and over.
Jones made some good plays today  
Mike from Ohio : 10/20/2019 7:01 pm : link
He also made a lot of plays that were dumb rookie mistakes. The first interception was just terrible decision making. While the line was atrocious, in a lot of cases he did a poor job of feeling the pressure and moving.

And the ball security is clearly becoming a significant issue. That needs to get addressed.

I still think he can be a very good NFL QB. But he has a lot of things to work on to get there.
That first int  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/20/2019 7:03 pm : link
was all on Shermur. If Arizona aren't dopes, they will copy what NE did well. The CB was already celebrating and raising his fist as soon as DJ8 threw the ball. Shermur fell for it again with his scripted wco playcall.
Jones's  
AcidTest : 10/20/2019 7:04 pm : link
receivers can't separate. That and wretched OL play are the main reasons the offense is moribund, and why he holds the ball too long and throws into extremely tight windows. He's done more than enough for Giants fans to be excited.
Zero wideouts  
hitdog42 : 10/20/2019 7:05 pm : link
Scare opponents
So that makes it a bit easier to game plan for anyone. They also donít use Barkley properly.
Add in the line sucking and jones needing to improve his awareness and pre snap reads - like most rookies. Well yeah it will be a shit show at times
But jones is still passing the eye test and getting the team up and down the field despite this. His turnovers are awful though
Shurmer put the kid in some very tough situations today  
Chris L. : 10/20/2019 7:07 pm : link
I sure hope we get a new coach in here because Shurmer could really screw this kid up. Having said all that like most young QB's Jones holds the ball too long and that causes a lot of his problems and needs to be cleaned up.
RE: I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
Nine-Tails : 10/20/2019 7:07 pm : link
In comment 14637217 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.


Agree. The int was bad, but all qbs have head-scratching throws. Through five games, I would say the most concerning thing is his pocket awareness. The 2nd fumble was bad and one we saw in the second preseason game. Other than that, he's got the tools and a lot to be excited about. He threw some dimes today in the bad weather and under constant duress
I donít know  
Essex : 10/20/2019 7:08 pm : link
besides the first interception, I thought he played well. I was at the game and he had some really fight windows. I also feel comfortable saying that the TD to Rhett Ellison, very few, if any, qbs can make that throw. Talk about threading the needle.

Does he hold on to the ball too long? Yes.
Does he force the ball into stupid situations? Yes

Those are all rookie and corectable.
Is he deadly accurate? Yes
Can he throw down field accurately? Yes
That is much harder to teach.

I am happy with him and I am generally pessimistic
RE: We  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/20/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14637216 broadbandz said:
Quote:
had tons of game film on Kyler and still had no idea how to stop that offense for most of the game. AZ looked like the outdoor bad weather team and the giants looked like a dome team.


Giants got smoked from a RB from football powerhouse Fordham. FORDHAM!!!
Itís up to his coaches to adjust as well  
Rflairr : 10/20/2019 7:15 pm : link
Good luck with that
RE: That first int  
MBavaro : 10/20/2019 7:17 pm : link
In comment 14637280 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
was all on Shermur. If Arizona aren't dopes, they will copy what NE did well. The CB was already celebrating and raising his fist as soon as DJ8 threw the ball. Shermur fell for it again with his scripted wco playcall.


JFC, WTF kind of insane bull crap is this????? ShUrmer somehow forced Jones to throw that ball into obvious blanket coverage?
I remember many saying the Eli was a Bust  
Steve in ATL : 10/20/2019 7:18 pm : link
during his rookie year. Read some of Eric's game reviews from 2004. https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/new-york-giants-game-previews-reviews/2004-new-york-giants-game-reviews-previews/ I think Eli's first start was Nov 21.

I am still positive on Jones. Give him some time.
RE: I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
Vanzetti : 10/20/2019 7:21 pm : link
In comment 14637217 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.


You are insane if you thought Jones played fine
The Cardinals...  
bw in dc : 10/20/2019 7:24 pm : link
traveled east to play a 1pm EST game. They were giving up 28.5 PPG. 29th in the NFL.

I don't care if Jones is a rookie or not, when you at home against this type of defense you have to light it up. Especially with Barkley and Engram back.

The season low point.
RE: Zero wideouts  
joeinpa : 10/20/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14637288 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
Scare opponents
So that makes it a bit easier to game plan for anyone. They also donít use Barkley properly.
Add in the line sucking and jones needing to improve his awareness and pre snap reads - like most rookies. Well yeah it will be a shit show at times
But jones is still passing the eye test and getting the team up and down the field despite this. His turnovers are awful though


This!
Wasnít as sure that Shurmur needed to go  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/20/2019 7:27 pm : link
As I was of Betcher before today.

After today they cant fire him fast enough. IMO. He needs to give up the play calling at least. Both of them are part of the problems we see every week
RE: The Cardinals...  
Essex : 10/20/2019 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14637347 bw in dc said:
Quote:
traveled east to play a 1pm EST game. They were giving up 28.5 PPG. 29th in the NFL.

I don't care if Jones is a rookie or not, when you at home against this type of defense you have to light it up. Especially with Barkley and Engram back.

The season low point.


I was at the game, nobody was lighting up anything in these conditions. Jones was fine and will be even better.
RE: Wasnít as sure that Shurmur needed to go  
Ivan15 : 10/20/2019 7:35 pm : link
In comment 14637357 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
As I was of Betcher before today.

After today they cant fire him fast enough. IMO. He needs to give up the play calling at least. Both of them are part of the problems we see every week


Is it the play calling or the plays?
RE: RE: I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/20/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14637335 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
In comment 14637217 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.



You are insane if you thought Jones played fine


Then I'm insane. I thought he made some great throws. He had bad moments obviously.
RE: RE: That first int  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/20/2019 7:43 pm : link
In comment 14637326 MBavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 14637280 Coach Red Beaulieu said:


Quote:


was all on Shermur. If Arizona aren't dopes, they will copy what NE did well. The CB was already celebrating and raising his fist as soon as DJ8 threw the ball. Shermur fell for it again with his scripted wco playcall.



JFC, WTF kind of insane bull crap is this????? ShUrmer somehow forced Jones to throw that ball into obvious blanket coverage?

There is no open throw with spacing and curl routes against a Tampa 2, maybe something to the flats for a few yards. Clearly other teams are picking up on Shermer's predictable playcalling.
Eli  
weaverpsu : 10/20/2019 7:43 pm : link
gives them a better chance to win but we are playing for the future. So, that means watching Jones play awful, miss wide open receivers, fumble, not check out of bad plays, hold the ball too long, and have Shurmur make it worse by his horrendous play calls. It's going to be a long season.
I though DJ8 displayed better mobility  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/20/2019 7:44 pm : link
than Murray.
RE: I thought Jones was fine today for a rookie QB.  
weaverpsu : 10/20/2019 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14637217 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
He made mistakes. He'll learn. But he made some great throws. He's the least of our problems.


What?? He was terrible. That pick was god awful. The constant fumbles are brutal. He missed Barkley wide open on a key down when should have noticed the mismatch pre-snap. He may not be the future. He played one good game. One! The rest were bad.
Jones looks like he did at Duke  
since1925 : 10/20/2019 7:47 pm : link
He is great throwing under 10 yards and when given time will move through his progression. His ball security is suspect. His awareness needs improvement. But he is poised for QB his age. The game doesn't seem too big for him.

None of what happens right now matters. The bigger issues are will he become a game manager or a stud, will he be the guy with two minutes on the clock, is he tough enough to take the beatings that will come over the next couple years, we can speculate but the answers will eventually be obvious. In the meantime, let's hope he has more good moments than bad.

RE: That throw to Slayton  
weaverpsu : 10/20/2019 7:47 pm : link
In comment 14637241 McNally's_Nuts said:
[quote] On the dig route was awesome.

He has incredible accuracy. Yes, growing pains but I believe he will come out of them [/quote

No he doesn't! Stop spouting nonsense. He missed wide open receivers for TD's against the Vikings. His accuracy has been average at best.
RE: RE: The Cardinals...  
bw in dc : 10/20/2019 7:58 pm : link
In comment 14637376 Essex said:
Quote:
In comment 14637347 bw in dc said:


Quote:


traveled east to play a 1pm EST game. They were giving up 28.5 PPG. 29th in the NFL.

I don't care if Jones is a rookie or not, when you at home against this type of defense you have to light it up. Especially with Barkley and Engram back.

The season low point.



I was at the game, nobody was lighting up anything in these conditions. Jones was fine and will be even better.


The weather was too difficult for us to block people?
RE: RE: RE: The Cardinals...  
Tom in NY : 10/20/2019 8:16 pm : link
In comment 14637469 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14637376 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 14637347 bw in dc said:


Quote:


traveled east to play a 1pm EST game. They were giving up 28.5 PPG. 29th in the NFL.

I don't care if Jones is a rookie or not, when you at home against this type of defense you have to light it up. Especially with Barkley and Engram back.

The season low point.



I was at the game, nobody was lighting up anything in these conditions. Jones was fine and will be even better.



The weather was too difficult for us to block people?


bw...that's his point. DJ, while not great today, was getting battered, plus the bad weather, and a suspicious running game combined for the horrible results. DJ needs to play better, the Oline MUST play better, and frankly his receivers need to do a better job (looking at you Engram).
Every NFL team game plans their opponents QB  
UberAlias : 10/20/2019 8:17 pm : link
Every week. Only thing is they have more game tape on him. This is not any unique situation.
8 sacks 12 hits  
bc4life : 10/20/2019 8:18 pm : link
no running game plus several dropped passes - his supporting cast needs to support him
RE: Eli  
Default : 10/20/2019 8:24 pm : link
In comment 14637414 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
gives them a better chance to win


No he doesnít, heís fucking finished.
He was finished 3 seasons ago.
RE: RE: RE: The Cardinals...  
Essex : 10/20/2019 8:38 pm : link
In comment 14637469 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14637376 Essex said:


Quote:


In comment 14637347 bw in dc said:


Quote:


traveled east to play a 1pm EST game. They were giving up 28.5 PPG. 29th in the NFL.

I don't care if Jones is a rookie or not, when you at home against this type of defense you have to light it up. Especially with Barkley and Engram back.

The season low point.



I was at the game, nobody was lighting up anything in these conditions. Jones was fine and will be even better.



The weather was too difficult for us to block people?


You said Jones should have lighted it up. Jones responsibility wasnít to block people (except maybe on those dumb sweeps)
Heíll learn...  
trueblueinpw : 10/20/2019 8:50 pm : link
Iím not worried about his ability to read defenses, which is essential to countering the defensive game plans against him. Heís smart and he works hard so heíll learn to audible and set protections.

What does concern me about Jones is lack of awareness on the field. Unless he develops some awareness heís gonna take big hits and turn the ball over too much to be successful. His first INT today was a real head scratcher, no idea how o explain that one.
He holds on to the ball too long  
Chris684 : 10/20/2019 9:31 pm : link
Thatís his single biggest problem and the cause of a bunch of his negative plays including at least one fumble today plus the second pick last week in New England.

It seems correctable but obviously they must address it. He needs to learn how to live to see another down.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The Cardinals...  
bw in dc : 10/20/2019 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14637595 Essex said:
Quote:


I was at the game, nobody was lighting up anything in these conditions. Jones was fine and will be even better.



The weather was too difficult for us to block people?



You said Jones should have lighted it up. Jones responsibility wasnít to block people (except maybe on those dumb sweeps)


You suggested the conditions were bad. I said the Cardinals D was bad. So the bad conditions should not have prevented us from taking advantage of D that allows 28.5 PPG. We weren't playing in a hurricane. Both teams combined for 31 points in the first half.

And I didn't mean to suggest Jones alone should have lit up the Cards. When I used the word "you" I meant the team.
Very difficult to judge Jones  
Marty866b : 10/20/2019 10:09 pm : link
He was under pressure all game and like most games he's played thus far, he took a beating. This offensive line that Gettleman built is just horrendous. It's getting worse each game and IMO, it's not much better then the Erik Flowers, Bobby hart, Chad Wheeler days.Eight sacks, I don't know how many pressures and three holding penalties. How can anyone judge the quarterback fairly under those conditions?
RE: RE: Eli  
Big_N : 10/20/2019 10:49 pm : link
In comment 14637560 Default said:
Quote:
In comment 14637414 weaverpsu said:


Quote:


gives them a better chance to win



No he doesnít, heís fucking finished.
He was finished 3 seasons ago.


WHy then? Is this another jones jock strap holder to prove they were right about Eli all along? This team sucks with Eli sucks without Eli sucked 5 years ago; 4 years ago with or without Eli. Ho w many more game do they have to lose before that becomes obvious.
Presumably  
NewBlue : 10/20/2019 10:58 pm : link
A young kid drafted high in round 1 goes through some growing pains and helps bring us out of the basement.......And of course we as over the top passionate fans are venting and blind to the possibility that Jones will be a good one.

It better happen or we will be screwed for many years to come
RE: The Cardinals...  
santacruzom : 10/20/2019 11:12 pm : link
In comment 14637347 bw in dc said:
Quote:

The season low point.


So far.
The concern isn't so much the mistakes that Jones is making  
jcn56 : 10/20/2019 11:15 pm : link
he's a rookie playing under difficult circumstances. Mistakes are a given.

The assumption that he'll correct them and improve, however, isn't guaranteed. That would imply that every rookie QB with correctable mistakes has fixed them successfully. If that were the case, there'd be much better play at the QB position.

Let's hope Jones can improve, because if not then the team is REALLY fucked.
Isn't this on Shurmur?  
Go Terps : 10/20/2019 11:16 pm : link
Wasn't the benefit of hiring him supposed to be that he could make a young QB's life easier?

Well he can start on that job any fucking time.
Díoh  
HomerJones45 : 10/20/2019 11:21 pm : link
You didnít Peterson to tell you that. Of course they are going to game plan against him and of course they will use Lil Billís blueprint.

Donít expect Shurmur to do anything about it. He knows what he knows which evidently isnít much and that is about it.

RE: Isn't this on Shurmur?  
NikkiMac : 10/21/2019 8:03 am : link
In comment 14637848 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Wasn't the benefit of hiring him supposed to be that he could make a young QB's life easier?

Well he can start on that job any fucking time.


Please before he turns into David Carr.....
What I don't understand is why Shurmur decided to go to this  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/21/2019 8:34 am : link
shotgun heavy offense once he installed Jones as the starter. That's not what they did in the preseason. The Giants offense should like the same as the Minnesota Vikings offense has the past three weeks. Damn near every play has multiple TEs or a FB in front of Dalvin Cook with a TE on the field. They're either going to run the ball or pretend to run the ball. Vikes-Lions highlights. Look how often #30, #82, #84, and #83 are on the field with Cousins under center. That's what the Giants offense looked like in the preseason. I think that would get the most out of Barkley and allow easier reads and more protection for Jones.

He's making rookie mistakes and not getting a lot of help. Sometimes he holds the ball too long. Sometimes he misses open receivers. He missed a few yesterday. But sometimes there's no one open and the offensive line is getting pushed back on his feet.The o-line is getting pushed back so much that when he tries to run, there aren't open lanes to do so like we saw with Kyler Murray yesterday.

On the list of issues with this team, Daniel Jones is at the bottom for me.
RE: We  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 8:39 am : link
In comment 14637216 broadbandz said:
Quote:
had tons of game film on Kyler and still had no idea how to stop that offense for most of the game. AZ looked like the outdoor bad weather team and the giants looked like a dome team.


You can knock the end result, but we controlled Murray well. We kept him contained and tried to force him to throw the ball.

what we didn't do was stop those ridiculous stretch runs.
This offense should be running through Saquon Barkley.  
Brown Recluse : 10/21/2019 8:43 am : link
.
RE: This offense should be running through Saquon Barkley.  
jcn56 : 10/21/2019 8:44 am : link
In comment 14638150 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
.


A novel idea - but even Saquon Barkley needs an offensive line that can open up a hole every now and then.
Would have been nice to seen some plays  
David B. : 10/21/2019 8:57 am : link
THROWING to Barkley. Where was that today?

My biggest gripe with Shurmer thus far is that he really is under-using Barkley in the passing game. And he always has.

Now with a rookie QB and no OBJ, the way you stop the Giants is put 8 in the box to stop Barkley, and make the Rookie QB beat you. Fine. Granted.

Don't just keep running him up the gut. Yeah, he's still getting mostly positive yards, but he has less of a chance to create big plays. Half the time yesterday, Barkley was in pass protect (once he whiffed badly and Jones got leveled). So do something creative. Put Gallman in the backfield to protect, and spread Barkley out wide. Create a mismatch. Get him the ball in space.
RE: RE: This offense should be running through Saquon Barkley.  
Brown Recluse : 10/21/2019 9:03 am : link
In comment 14638152 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638150 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


.



A novel idea - but even Saquon Barkley needs an offensive line that can open up a hole every now and then.


He's averaging 5.6 yards per carry. What more do you want?? He needs the ball more, not only as a runner but as a receiver as well.
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