I’m still trying to digest exactly what happened today. I’m also trying not to have an emotional response, and make any snap judgments. I’m sure some of this is frustration coming through, and some is just venting, but today was concerning.
In my humble opinion, which isn't worth much, this loss is inexcusable. Completely on the coaching staff. You have 10 days to prepare for a team with a rookie quarterback and a rookie head coach traveling completely across the country, and playing in a different time zone. A team missing its best offensive weapon, running back David Johnson, and their most explosive pass catcher, Christian Kirk.
Penalties. Dropped passes. Missed tackles. Blown assignments. Poor play calling. Busted coverages. Missed opportunities. Wash, rinse, repeat. Every week, unprepared.
I don't get it. Shurmur is supposed to be an offensive of guru. Where is the creativity? Where is the unique playcalling? How come we aren't getting the ball into the hands of our dynamic play makers in multiple ways? Where are the adjustments? One of the comments that Mara made when he was hired was that it’s nice to have an adult in the building. What good is an adult that makes poor decisions, and is a weak in-game coach? The poor decision making. The failed challenges. Maybe he’s overwhelmed. Maybe the job is too big for him.
So far, Arizona has allowed a quarterback passer rating of over 100 every quarterback they played. Except Jones. 78.
So far, Arizona has given up either 100 yards receiving, or a touchdown every single tight end they played. Except today. 1 catch for 6 yards for Engram.
Arizona’s defense was ranked 29 on the year, and all they can muster is 14 offensive points?
Arizona had 3 takeaways through their first 6 games. They had 3 total today. Arizona had 14 sacks through the first 6 games. They had 8 today.
They lost to Minnesota and New England. I get that. They'll lose to Green Bay and Detroit. I get that. But this is the type of game you'd like to see some progress. Instead it looks like they're going backwards.
Yet another season that is over before Halloween.
The Cardinals have taken half a season to rebuld to the point where they can kick the shit out of the Giants.
The Giants are on a ten year rebuild plan. That was a bad loss yesterday riddled with errors. The pillow soft Giants also melted when the rain picked up.
Bottom feeders led by a HC with a brutal career record.
Sucks, that was a test on the state of the franchise yesterday. The Giants failed miserably.
So unless Slayton just ignored the coaches (which maybe we’ve found out and I just didn’t hear about it) then that is a prime example of piss poor coaching. Nobody reminds him of this before the kick?
In addition, as outlined in the original post:
-Rookie head coach
-Statistically a bottom 3 defense.
-A West Coast team, traveling east, playing a different time zone, for a 1 o’clock start.
-A team missing its best offense of weapon, David Johnson, and it’s most explosive pass catcher, Christian Kirk.
-Extra time to prepare due to the Thursday night game.
-Playing in the rain, against the warm weather, primarily passing “air raid” offense.
The more you think about this one, the worse it gets.
People kept using the “emperor has no pants” motif for McAdoo but man this guy sure does seem pant less as well almost all the time. I was big on hiring him after watching Minnesota but boy does he suck. Have to get a personality in here that commands people to do things the right way-who actually gets the message that his rb is limping off, who actually has a system in place where a coach might relay the message to Slayton to sit on that last kickoff. This guy is wingin it and the team is suffering.
Shurmur is a long line of successful coordinations who make lousy head coaches (Norv turner wade phillips Ray Rhodes). A different skill set is required.
Have to wonder about the OL - scouting and the position coach. How is it that with exception of Hernandez - this team has been unable to draft a solid, not all-pro or HOF offensive lineman in 15 friggin years? You drat Jones witha top 5 pick - and you put a line aournd him that allows 8 sacks and 12 hits?
The LB corps is mediocre. Lot of those runs yesteday were on the LBs. They missed Connelly. And, again - how manyquality starters have they drafted at the position? Carter?
Dropped passes and the inability to stay healthy by 1st round TE. Re-signed Shepard, who is having trouble staying on the field.
Huge question: What happened to Bettcher's ability to field a decent defense?
You may have nailed it there, he seems lost, totally in over his head!
However, that performance yesterday sure seems to lend credence to those who have been on Shurmur s Case, especially in regard to his seemingly inability to enact in game adjustments, or manage game situations.
In addition, as outlined in the original post:
-Rookie head coach
-Statistically a bottom 3 defense.
-A West Coast team, traveling east, playing a different time zone, for a 1 o’clock start.
-A team missing its best offense of weapon, David Johnson, and it’s most explosive pass catcher, Christian Kirk.
-Extra time to prepare due to the Thursday night game.
-Playing in the rain, against the warm weather, primarily passing “air raid” offense.
The more you think about this one, the worse it gets.
Bettcher is part of the problem. It’s raining and AZ is committing to the run so much that we can’t stop the RB? 3 TD over 20 yards each. He had Ximines as a DT on 3rd and 11. Not good
As I said when I advocated moving Jones into the starting lineup, it's as much about judging whether Shurmur is the right man for the job as it is about starting Jones' development. While there are still a lot of games left to be played, I can't imagine how anyone could be positive about Pat at this point.
Wasn't Vince Lombardy hired by Green Bay as an HC after proving himself as an Offensive Coordinator for the Giants?
Much like Shurmur's success as OC at Minnesota?
Shurmur is a loser as a head coach, there's no sign of it going otherwise. He's a got a below average roster to work with, but plenty of demonstrated evidence on his own that he stinks as the man. Gets outcoached weekly by a significant margin.
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Hired another guy with no HC success at any level- in fact quite the contrary. You were expecting Vince Lombardi?
Wasn't Vince Lombardy hired by Green Bay as an HC after proving himself as an Offensive Coordinator for the Giants?
Much like Shurmur's success as OC at Minnesota?
You missed the 'contrary' part - Shurmur did have a record at the HC level, and it wasn't good.
They'd tell Chris Mara that whatever he's been doing for the team, whether it's pulling the strings or sitting the background and watching, is over.
They'd start interviewing a series of external candidates and get their views on how they'd fix the Giants, and spend more time evaluating responses than how well they'd integrate to the existing structure.
They'd wait until the end of the season and move - move out the scouting department, Abrams, Gettleman, Shurmur - clean out the whole lot. They've been taking half measures now for almost a decade - a coordinator here, a HC there, a GM - it's time to flush the whole operation and start from scratch.
Figure out who this new person will be, hand him the keys, tell him he gets 3 years. Then back out and let him do his job. Cut the BS press conferences where you answer questions about football moves, limit your public statements and evaluation to the guy you handed the keys to.
It won't happen, but it desperately needs to happen.
Isnt that what happened?
Get the guy some talent so he can show what he can do before you write him off for not doing well enough in a year you knew you weren't go to do well regardless.
When can we judge him? When he has an all pro roster? This is the NFL and you are judge by your record. He is a career loser.
What does Shurmur do well?
Gettleman isn't the problem here.
I agree with the OP. Shurmur is still displaying the same issues on game day that he did in Cleveland. And Bettcher seems to have just been the benefactor of a very talented crew in Arizona, much like Spags was here in 2007/2008.
They make a lot of other players & coaches a lot of money. They keep people fed.
I was a Shurmur supporter until yesterday. That was a must win for me - or at least a great coaching performance in a loss. He doesn’t have it & he’s a poor fit for the style of play the Giants should be using.
Last week it was short week against the champs with a depleted roster, so let’s take solace in a moral victory. How about this week then? Arizona was coming cross country for an early game, having given up big performances to opposing TE’s, and Shurmur couldn’t devise anything to get EE more looks? Jones still had to force throws even though he had all but one of his weapons. That’s the most frustrating thing, Shurmur is obviously a lousy in-game manager, but he’s a lousy play caller as well, and that was his supposed strength. You can’t replace an entire roster, that will take 5 years, might as well change coaches and hope for a Rams-like turnaround.
Who hired Shurmur? The Easter Bunny?
If I weren't "locked" into two fantasy leagues (with friends and family), I probably would fully tune out altogether.
Shurmur is such a bad game manager, it's almost unbelievable. He is so bad at it, despite having over three years of experience doing it. This is a guy who impressed ownership so much they named him head coach? What does that tell you about ownership? Especially after the McAdoo flameout?
You can't fire ownership. If this is what we're stuck with, maybe there's no reason to stick around.
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Gettleman isn't the problem here.
Who hired Shurmur? The Easter Bunny?
Gettleman is doing fine in other aspects of his job. Hiring Shurmur is not reason enough for him to be fired. However, if the next guy he brings in doesn't get the job done, then yeah - it might be time for him to go too.
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Gettleman isn't the problem here.
Who hired Shurmur? The Easter Bunny?
Also, what has anyone seen that inspires confidence in the players Gettlemen has either selected or signed? Talent still looks well below league average. Have the Cardinals rebuilt in half a season to the point where they can push the giants around in a road game? Outside of an injured running back, I can’t see anyone of his picks that has been consistently impressive, and we are all ready to declare Gettlemen a success.
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Gettleman isn't the problem here.
Who hired Shurmur? The Easter Bunny?
I think Mara is way, way more involved than some people think.
Do have major issues with wasting a TO with 4 min left, running on 3rd and 18, then going for it on 3rd and 15.
Go for it on 4th and 10 or less. Not 15.
He needs to delegate play calling duties but won't do it......going to end up getting him fired.
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In comment 14638114 Brown Recluse said:
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Gettleman isn't the problem here.
Who hired Shurmur? The Easter Bunny?
Also, what has anyone seen that inspires confidence in the players Gettlemen has either selected or signed? Talent still looks well below league average. Have the Cardinals rebuilt in half a season to the point where they can push the giants around in a road game? Outside of an injured running back, I can’t see anyone of his picks that has been consistently impressive, and we are all ready to declare Gettlemen a success.
"Well below league average" is a big exaggeration. They are missing talent at key spots and when your coaches don't know how to utilize that talent - it makes them look even worse.
But if you don't think he's drafted some nice building blocks then you either aren't watching, are too stupid to see talent when is there, or are just being obtuse because you have an axe to grind.
Lots of younger coaches finding success. Why is that you may ask? Because outside of a select few the game has passed many of these older guys by and hiring a retread is foolish. The game is significantly different than it was even ten years ago.
The game management mistakes that you see from older coaches you don't being made by the younger guys. I know people poo poo it, but the way Madden is set up with short quarters it magnifies the importance of end game management. Than you do it over and over again, and practice makes perfect.
TC was a great coach, but he was done in by some awful game management, and its under a microscope now because you see less and less guys making these mistakes as the old guard retires and the Madden generation settles in. There are too many games that are won and loss this way in the NFL and the analytics available only make it easier.
But if you don't think he's drafted some nice building blocks then you either aren't watching, are too stupid to see talent when is there, or are just being obtuse because you have an axe to grind.
Well, you seem to have some form of vision the rest of us don't - so please explain where all this talent was yesterday when the Cardinals came across country for an early game and managed to push the Giants all over the field.
Or was it all just Pat Shurmur's doing?
All I've ever seen is that they operate by committee - where has this been documented?
I've always believed Shurmur was Mara's hire. Though it looked like we may have dodged a bullet, I think Gettleman would have brought in Wilkes if it were 100% his decision.
Well known, well documented, no proof.
Of course, do a quick search and all you'll find are Gettleman quotes about how this job 'isn't too big' for Shurmur.
So, if you're keeping a running tally at home - Gettleman gets a pass because of Reese, Mara not letting him hire a coach, and forcing him to keep Eli.
Makes you wonder what Gettleman does with all the free time he has from not running the team.