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NFT: Yankees Chat - Final Thoughts and Future Considerations *lon

adamg : 10/20/2019 11:58 pm
1. Paxton can show up when it counts. He showed us something with that 6 IP 1 R gem.

2. DJ is worth extending. MVP. 'nough said.

3. Tanaka is still the man in the post season.

4. Didi is clutch at times and disappears off the face of the earth at others. Do his glove and Yankee stadium swing make him worthwhile as a building block?

(My answer: I'm really ambivalent on Didi which makes me lean no off the bat. (Pardon the pun.) But great shortstops don't grow on trees. For him personally Yankee Stadium is a boon. He should consider a more team friendly deal to stay purely for numbers reasons. And the FO should value him more than others for the same reason. Ultimately, I think stay is a smart move for both sides.)

5. Which ace should we target in FA?

(My answer: Sevy, Tanaka, and Paxton is a fine front end of the rotation. But WAS and HOU both show the power of SP. Gerrit Cole is a coup de grace type move to make on the Stros. We could always use another ace especially one that denies the Stros that same asset. It's #ColeSZN. (Sorry Greg.))

6. Which bats/BP should we target in FA?

(My answer: none come to mind. I'd love to see Cash have more success dumpster diving in some ways, but another DJ would be awesome.)

7. I love Hicks. Just sayin'.

8. Which of the unlikely stars of 2019 is a guy to retain? Maybin? Tauchman? To me, Urshela is the obvious top choice. We needed a glove at 3rd. But with Miggy coming back...

Feel free to respond or add your own thoughts or reactions.

It's over. But it was a fun team to watch. They had a savage run and Gardy gave us some comic relief for the bad umping we endured.

Onward and upward to 2020. And until then, go Nats.
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RE: section125  
Carson53 : 10/21/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14638391 arniefez said:
Quote:
It's over your head.
.

LOL, the levity never ceases on BBI.
RE: section125  
section125 : 10/21/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14638391 arniefez said:
Quote:
It's over your head.


Yeah, ok, WTH that means. Maybe you can explain instead of throwing out generalities. If you disagree with Cashman's choices, that is fine, but at least say what he should do better.
It's Randal, man  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 10:26 am : link
Potshots is what he does
I think they should go hard after Cole...  
Milton : 10/21/2019 10:30 am : link
...but I'm not optimistic they come out on top in that sweepstakes.

Agree with those who say move on from Didi, Encarnacion, and Gardner. Move Gleybar to SS and DJ to 2B.

I'm a believer in Urshela, but would not part with Andujar. Andujar is a natural hitter. He can be the every day DH and also see time at 3B and maybe 1B/RF as well.

Domingo German and Frazier can top the list of trade bait and maybe Loaisiga too.

I think they need to grin and bear it with Stanton as the every day LF and part-time DH. Tauchman can be the 4th OF. Given Stanton's and Hicks's injury histories (Judge too kind of), he will see plenty of action.

At 1B, Voit is not ideal, but worth keeping around. His BA took a beating this year, but his OBP held up okay. I like Ford (and his lefty bat) as part of a platoon there. If they don't believe in Ford, they should trade him because his trade value may never be better than it is right now.

Don't sleep on Jordan Montgomery as the 5th starter. He could come back stronger than he left us.
at the end of the day, the guys that hit in the postseason  
hitdog42 : 10/21/2019 10:31 am : link
had the right approach--- balls to right and right center... with power as well. Gleybar, DJ, Urshela at times

the guys that didn't do that sucked... and were why we lost the series. that is Sanchez, EE, Stanton, Judge unfortunately.

if the players cant adapt in the postseason away from launch baseball... that is a problem.

They missed Betances a ton as well- first time it showed up massively
So what is the consensus  
section125 : 10/21/2019 10:38 am : link
with Chapman and Betances?

I think Chapman will opt out. So do they what and see what market is? If he goes, do they re-sign Betances? Or, do they sign both or let both walk(less likely)?
RE: RE: section125  
Carson53 : 10/21/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14638439 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638391 arniefez said:


Quote:


It's over your head.



Yeah, ok, WTH that means. Maybe you can explain instead of throwing out generalities. If you disagree with Cashman's choices, that is fine, but at least say what he should do better.
.

Here is an example, be careful with long term deals.
Giving Ellsbury a long term deal, when you already have a player with a very similar skill set, not smart.
Taking on Stanton's contract, when you have a player with a similar skill set, not smart.
And finally, giving a 7 year deal to Hicks when he's been less than durable, obviously also not smart.
I recall Cash saying to Hicks after the deal,
'I am betting on you'...looks like he is losing that bet.
RE: RE: RE: section125  
section125 : 10/21/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14638486 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638439 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 14638391 arniefez said:


Quote:


It's over your head.



Yeah, ok, WTH that means. Maybe you can explain instead of throwing out generalities. If you disagree with Cashman's choices, that is fine, but at least say what he should do better.

.

Here is an example, be careful with long term deals.
Giving Ellsbury a long term deal, when you already have a player with a very similar skill set, not smart.
Taking on Stanton's contract, when you have a player with a similar skill set, not smart.
And finally, giving a 7 year deal to Hicks when he's been less than durable, obviously also not smart.
I recall Cash saying to Hicks after the deal,
'I am betting on you'...looks like he is losing that bet.


Yes, cannot argue with Ellsbury when Gardner was better in every aspect except power. Everyone knew that was a clinker from the get go...
Stanton - I do not remember him hurt this much, but the salary thing was crazy, so yeah I can agree.
Hicks - meh, maybe, except he's less problematic and costly. I hold out hope with him. And he did look pretty good in the ALCS.

But I dislike anything over 5 years unless the player is under 25...
my initial thoughts  
bigbluehoya : 10/21/2019 10:57 am : link
incomplete as they are at this early stage

1 - let Didi walk barring an obscenely team-friendly deal.

2 - decline the option on Edwin.

3 - even if it requires paying down some of the $17M 2020 salary, trade Happ.

4 - extend Gleyber -- use the Acuna contract as a guideline, might need to pay a little bit more. Acuna is the better player but that contract was robbery.

5 - I'm not saying they shouldn't go hard for Cole, but I'm just not getting my hopes up. Other SP names that I am a fan of to build some more depth in the rotation -- Wheeler, Ryu, Keuchel. Not aces, just guys I like depending on price. Need to build reliable depth.

6. Some veteran bats that I'd be interested in on a 1-2 year deal if they want to play in NY -- Josh Donaldson, Jose Abreu, Justin Smoak, Brian Dozier. After some of the at-bats I've seen in the last couple of weeks, I've got a real hard on for a good approach at this point. Not saying i'd pay through the nose for these guys. Price/term have to be reasonable or better.

7. If they do move on from Didi and don't go after one of the sexier names rumored to be available in the trade market (Lindor, Story), Jose Iglesias is a guy I've always liked. Outstanding defender. Zero power, but puts the ball in play. Likely not expensive at all.
RE: So what is the consensus  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 10/21/2019 10:59 am : link
In comment 14638468 section125 said:
Quote:
with Chapman and Betances?

I think Chapman will opt out. So do they what and see what market is? If he goes, do they re-sign Betances? Or, do they sign both or let both walk(less likely)?


Considering that Chapman returned to the Yankees post-trade, which 99.9% of players would never do, I think he likes the Yankees a lot. I'm talking out of my ass a bit, but I think he opts out, but doesn't hold the Yankees over a barrel nor does he really have the leverage to. The market for closers isn't great. Kimbrel held out just to get less than what Chapman currently makes.

I think Chappy gets an extra year tacked onto the 2 he already has.

RE: RE: So what is the consensus  
section125 : 10/21/2019 11:03 am : link
In comment 14638549 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638468 section125 said:


Quote:


with Chapman and Betances?

I think Chapman will opt out. So do they what and see what market is? If he goes, do they re-sign Betances? Or, do they sign both or let both walk(less likely)?



Considering that Chapman returned to the Yankees post-trade, which 99.9% of players would never do, I think he likes the Yankees a lot. I'm talking out of my ass a bit, but I think he opts out, but doesn't hold the Yankees over a barrel nor does he really have the leverage to. The market for closers isn't great. Kimbrel held out just to get less than what Chapman currently makes.

I think Chappy gets an extra year tacked onto the 2 he already has.


shock - we are all talking out our asses....good point on Chappy. Despite the protestations of his slider use against Altuve, he is working to get past his sole use of the FB. And that slider is getting better and better. Remember that Otto gave up the HR to Springer on a cement mixer and that is his best pitch.
Chapman  
bigbluehoya : 10/21/2019 11:07 am : link
just my opinion, but if he opts out, I let him walk.

2 years $30M is fair value, IMO. I don't know how his agent could be confident that he gets much more after what we saw in the market last year.

I'd rather live with Britton/Kahnle/Ottavino and try to re-sign Betances than get over the skis on Chapman through age 35 at a big number.
RE: RE: Things I'd do  
rnargi : 10/21/2019 11:15 am : link
In comment 14638239 BigBlue2112 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638110 rnargi said:


Quote:


1. No matter the cost, move Stanton.

2. Bye bye, EE, thanks for the regular season help

3. Bye bye, Bird(ie)...no use bringing him in. Trade him or release him.

4. Trade Voit or accept that he'll never be a real difference maker. He's regressed to his mean and he is exactly what he is now, low ceiling, high floor.

5. Gio at third, Miggy at SS, Gleybor at second, and DJLM at 1st. Let Didi go unless he comes in at a steep discount. He's going to be 30, and his slumps are getting longer in duration.




No one is trading for Stanton. He has an opt out coming up.

Andujar at SS would be a disaster. He couldnt handle fielding 3B. Not going to happen but if you move him and dont sign Didi, Andujar to 1B, DJ to 2B, Gleybar to SS and Gio at 3B.


You're absolutely right about Miggy...I forgot he was bad at 3B. Your lineup looks much better, thanks.
RE: So what is the consensus  
rich in DC : 10/21/2019 11:17 am : link
In comment 14638468 section125 said:
Quote:
with Chapman and Betances?

I think Chapman will opt out. So do they what and see what market is? If he goes, do they re-sign Betances? Or, do they sign both or let both walk(less likely)?


Let them both walk.

They've been great and all that, but both are now on the wrong side of 30, and both rely on power pitching- a skill that declines as you pass the early-mid 30's.

I would let Didi walk as well. I think their best offensive and defensive middle INF has Gleybar at SS and DJ at 2B.

Make qualifying offers to Didi and Chapman. Didi MIGHT accept to try and rebuild value- but given that there are no other meaningful SS on the FA market, he might test his luck. Chapman most likely declines to get one last big payday.

I have been saying this for months now, but don't sleep on the Dodgers calling the Yanks about Stanton. They have OF and middle of the lineup issues. Stanton helps with both. He also is not excessively damaging to the luxury tax- he only counts for $22M after the $3M per from the Marlins is included- a bargain in today's game.

While Cole would be a great get, I don't think the Yanks are the favorites there- the West Coast teams might have a better shot. I think examining trades might be the best chance to find a top SP.

As a general matter, it will be interesting to see which way MLB goes with the baseball. Will they go back to the pre-2018 model or stick with the 2019 HR ball? If they bow to pressure and go back to the old model, I think that SP like Happ and Tanaka benefit from the change.

If MLB sticks with the new ball, it might be a better move to invest in power pitching.
Honestly? I wouldn't mind seeing them trying Andujar in the OF  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 11:17 am : link
He certainly has the arm strength for it, and first step quickness (which is probably his biggest shortcoming at 3B) isn't such a big deal out there.
Good points rich in DC.  
section125 : 10/21/2019 11:22 am : link
And yes Stanton to LAD is a real possibility. After getting booed again, he may have had enough of the Bronx. I think even the LAA are a possibility. Can't say I would be disappointed if he were traded. Would the Dodgers consider Kershaw in a trade as salary dump? Not that I am a fan, but he isn't chopped liver.
RE: Good points rich in DC.  
bigbluehoya : 10/21/2019 11:35 am : link
In comment 14638636 section125 said:
Quote:
And yes Stanton to LAD is a real possibility. After getting booed again, he may have had enough of the Bronx. I think even the LAA are a possibility. Can't say I would be disappointed if he were traded. Would the Dodgers consider Kershaw in a trade as salary dump? Not that I am a fan, but he isn't chopped liver.


If someone is taking Stanton off of NYY's hands, the return is probably closer to zero than it is to a player like Kershaw.

The primary consideration coming back is the payroll flexibility you regain. The no trade clause is a game changer -- if he's willing to waive for that team, that team knows they're pretty much the only game in town.

RE: RE: Good points rich in DC.  
section125 : 10/21/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14638680 bigbluehoya said:
Quote:
In comment 14638636 section125 said:


Quote:


And yes Stanton to LAD is a real possibility. After getting booed again, he may have had enough of the Bronx. I think even the LAA are a possibility. Can't say I would be disappointed if he were traded. Would the Dodgers consider Kershaw in a trade as salary dump? Not that I am a fan, but he isn't chopped liver.



If someone is taking Stanton off of NYY's hands, the return is probably closer to zero than it is to a player like Kershaw.

The primary consideration coming back is the payroll flexibility you regain. The no trade clause is a game changer -- if he's willing to waive for that team, that team knows they're pretty much the only game in town.


Ha, I can dream. You are likely right, but maybe they want Kershaw gone. Not sure what his money is, and I know Stanton is way more, but it does drop their payroll and I'd bet the Yanks eat some salary too.
Cole is from Orange County..  
BillKo : 10/21/2019 12:00 pm : link
..and the Angels will make a big play for him, with Maddon doing some recruiting work for sure.
RE: If you listen to Cashman  
UConn4523 : 10/21/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14638258 arniefez said:
Quote:
he's pretty transparent. He treats the "cap/budget" as a puzzle assigns a value to each player inside and outside the organization and has a plan A, plan B, plan C and works from one plan to the next as the pieces come off the board.

I think the most interesting thing to watch this winter is if he adjusts his philosophy on what is valuable. We know what he has valued to this point and I think he's been wrong and has been proven wrong.


How are you determining what you think he doesn't find valuable vs its effect on the luxury tax? If the luxury tax is a non-negotiable, which by ever single report it is, then that is going to greatly effect what's deemed "valuable".

And similar to the Giants whiffing on their OL picks, the Yankees front end starting pitching is something they've tried continuously to upgrade many different ways and sometimes they have been complete failures.
much as people want to bitch about the pitchers  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 12:14 pm : link
Pitching didn't lose this series. Know what the mighty Astros lineup hit in this series? .179/.281/.318. And guess what? They didn't win with everyone's beloved SMALLBALL!1!! either. They did it by hitting a bunch of three run homers. They didn't hit much, but when they did there were almost always runners on base while the Yankees kept stranding runners.
Cole makes a lot of sense BUT...  
Dunedin81 : 10/21/2019 12:47 pm : link
like it or not they're going to attempt to stay below the second luxury tax threshold at least until the new CBA is concluded, and are you comfortable devoting a huge chunk of that budget to a single pitcher when you're getting ready to pay Gary, Gleyber, and Judge?
imo  
Bill2 : 10/21/2019 1:33 pm : link
1) Either:

a) Lots of headlines and quotes about in for Cole to drive the price up for others?

b) Lay low and lots of quotes about cost control and then swoop in at the last minute if all other cost control measures work:
- Judge and Torres and DJ signed to acceptable long term contracts
- Chapman and Betances to risk acceptable contracts
- Gardner either in or out at an acceptable number
- Didi at an acceptable number or a replacement
- EE paid $5M as a thank you
- Hicks situation clarified ( in fact this sets up the ask or not on Gardner)
- Add one more BP pitcher
- Inquire loosely at another SP

Total all that and project it out 8 years. Then consider Cole if it fits. Remember 8 years is exactly what we fans don't like about Stantons contract and Ellsbury's contract. Exactly.

So to me that's the decision tree sequence that sets up Job 1: Consider adding a SP at a price that fits

Job 2: Give Stanton and Judge and Sanchez clear clear off season objectives on their approaches and physical emphasis on flexibility. and weight when it comes to Sanchez

Step 3: Have solid back up plans for Hicks and SS and Sanchez and Betances and one other SP and one other BP arms

Depth got us to the playoffs ...this season. Those positions are where depth is most likely needed. SS, Catcher, CF, Sp and BP.

Do we have answers? Yes more than likely, but id over prepare at C and BP.

I am in favor of re signing Romine for either Gary or Romine have trade value if Sanchez hits and Higgy gets slightly better as an offensive player

Step 4: where there is a debate slant defense and depth at C, SS, CF

Step 5: Stay with the BP strategy. IF the BP was one man stronger we could have offset our hitting performance in one or two games

Step 6: Frazier: In one five minute observation with film clips, Kenny Singleton exposed Frazier as a hitter too easy for elite pitchers. His legs. He showed that he did not have a set of habits that led to solid steady platform for hitting. Too many different set points and moving parts such that so far his is fortunate that wrists and forearms rescue him against mistakes when he is hot. Prone to slumps due to a lack of a repeatable platform and prone to not catch elite pitches. At his age a limiting factor. Add defensive limitations. What imo, we are left with is a useful MLB player but not on an Astro beating playoff series player.

What do the Yankees have to trade with to get these goals accomplished?

IMo, one of the catchers, German and Frazier and at a lesser trade value, some minor leaguers.

Betances, Frazier, Gary, Chapman, Bird, Florial are all below market trade value until June of next year ( and even then some only if back up solutions are found)


What players can be bigger contributors if healthy next year? Fortunately the list is long:
Andujar, Sevy, Betances, Stanton, Judge, Gary, Voit, Hicks


If half of those get better in 2020, is that enough to overcome the Astros?

I don't think so, they need more flexible hitters and another SP and another BP. Interesting off season, especially because I don't think they spend on another big contract for a SP.


sorry  
Bill2 : 10/21/2019 1:37 pm : link
I did not summarize well:
For a variety of reasons I don't think the Yankees are finished coming out of ST.

I think late in ST and up to the trade deadline is much more likely next year than this year to show the team we have for the playoffs next year
Cashman won the lottery  
BigBluesman : 10/21/2019 1:53 pm : link
going into the offseason with all of the players who have emerged as viable starters/depth over this past season. Barring an urge to make any big moves I think they can keep it pretty simple and the remedy is that most of this motley band of overachievers stay.

Didi and Gardner can likely walk if they find better money elsewhere (I see Gardner somehow staying). Same goes for Chapman. EE can go.

Voit/Ford at 1st/DH. DJ 2nd. Gleyber SS although he hasn't shown he deserves it with some of his recent fielding. Urshela/Andujar at 3rd with Andujar likely DHing some. Gary returns for better or worse. Tauch has to be on the roster in that outfield group. If there's an out for Stanton I would take it at this point, but I doubt it happens.

Then there's starting pitching. I'm all for throwing the money at Cole or whoever, but its like they are cursed. Any SP they bring in has problems. At least we have Tanaka, Paxton, and Sevy to build on. German should not return. We are already carrying Chapman and its just too bad of a look.
RE: much as people want to bitch about the pitchers  
section125 : 10/21/2019 2:04 pm : link
In comment 14638798 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Pitching didn't lose this series. Know what the mighty Astros lineup hit in this series? .179/.281/.318. And guess what? They didn't win with everyone's beloved SMALLBALL!1!! either. They did it by hitting a bunch of three run homers. They didn't hit much, but when they did there were almost always runners on base while the Yankees kept stranding runners.


Thanks Greg - about what I thought. They hit homers, the Yanks did not.

Yanks line .214/.289/.383/.673
So the Yankees out hit the Astos - but the Astro hit the big homers.
Yankees even out-homered them 10-8  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 2:27 pm : link
But the Astros hit a bunch of three run shots while the Yankees hit mostly solo shots.
RE: Yankees even out-homered them 10-8  
section125 : 10/21/2019 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14639062 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
But the Astros hit a bunch of three run shots while the Yankees hit mostly solo shots.


Crooked numbers! I remember Tom Seaver saying something like - rarely do 1 run HRs beat a team and good pitchers give up HRs because they are around the plate.
Point being that they had many chances to win this series  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 2:38 pm : link
And that, while the narrative is that the Yankees were just so terribly overmatched by the bestest team in history, reality was much more complicated. This was a very close series.
RE: Point being that they had many chances to win this series  
Dunedin81 : 10/21/2019 2:51 pm : link
In comment 14639080 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
And that, while the narrative is that the Yankees were just so terribly overmatched by the bestest team in history, reality was much more complicated. This was a very close series.


Game 2 was huge. An inability to plate just one more run the rest of that game was the difference between going home up 2-0 and going home split with Cole looming
that goddamned ball rolling directly to Correa in game 2  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 2:53 pm : link
is going to make me really angry for a very long time.

Astros certainly got plenty of fortunate bounces and breaks, too, I'll say that much.
Game 2 was a brutal loss.  
bceagle05 : 10/21/2019 2:57 pm : link
Definitely sensed it would come back to haunt us, but you hope for the best so early in the series. 2-2 game in the seventh, Verlander out - gotta score a run off Smith/Harris/Pressly if you want to get to the World Series. Just couldn't do it that night. We'll bounce back, but I wanted to beat that team at their best. It won't be quite the same next year if Verlander is slowing down and Cole is on the Angels, but it'll be sweet enough.
RE: Point being that they had many chances to win this series  
section125 : 10/21/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14639080 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
And that, while the narrative is that the Yankees were just so terribly overmatched by the bestest team in history, reality was much more complicated. This was a very close series.


Absolutely. Everyone claiming the Yanks were out pitched. Not so.
RE: Cole makes a lot of sense BUT...  
bigbluehoya : 10/21/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14638873 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
like it or not they're going to attempt to stay below the second luxury tax threshold at least until the new CBA is concluded, and are you comfortable devoting a huge chunk of that budget to a single pitcher when you're getting ready to pay Gary, Gleyber, and Judge?


great point. Even just expected arbitration numbers for the eligible guys will have the yankees somewhere around/above the $208 first luxtax level.

and that's assuming:

No Gardner
No Didi
No Romine
No Betances
Decline option on Edwin
Not taking care of Judge or Torres long-term right now.

The way I see it, anyone with their heart set on Cole should be praying for a Chapman opt-out and that they find some poor bastard to take on Happ.

Let’s get real. We ain’t getting Cole.  
Ron from Ninerland : 10/21/2019 3:49 pm : link
Cole will command at least $40 million x 7. Someone will come up with that money. I don’t think it will be the Yanks who still have to pay Judge, Torres , extend DJM, and are saddled with Stanton.
As long as Cole leaves Houston, it's a plus.  
bceagle05 : 10/21/2019 3:57 pm : link
I bet he reverts back to Pittsburgh Cole when he leaves the Astros anyway.
RE: As long as Cole leaves Houston, it's a plus.  
section125 : 10/21/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14639233 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I bet he reverts back to Pittsburgh Cole when he leaves the Astros anyway.


Angels....
Hope the yanks drive up the price on Cole and  
xman : 10/21/2019 4:26 pm : link
let some other team end up with the high sticker price. In the meantime steal Astros pitching coach
RE: As long as Cole leaves Houston, it's a plus.  
Dunedin81 : 10/21/2019 5:07 pm : link
In comment 14639233 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I bet he reverts back to Pittsburgh Cole when he leaves the Astros anyway.


IDK about that, Charlie Morton had his best year as a pro in TB after two very good years in Houston.
RE: that goddamned ball rolling directly to Correa in game 2  
Mad Mike : 10/21/2019 5:11 pm : link
In comment 14639112 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
is going to make me really angry for a very long time.

Astros certainly got plenty of fortunate bounces and breaks, too, I'll say that much.

That and Brantley's catch (not the same I know, no lucky bounce, but a play that could easily have backfired big time on him) really hurt.
Agree on Cole  
arniefez : 10/21/2019 5:52 pm : link
more important he leaves Houston than the Yankees get him. If I'm a pitcher that has multiple options for enormous money the Yankees are at the bottom of my list. There is something very rancid with the Cashman Rothschild performance science and pitching analytics department. Yankee Stadium is where pitchers go to fail. It has been for a long time.
RE: Agree on Cole  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14639495 arniefez said:
Quote:
more important he leaves Houston than the Yankees get him. If I'm a pitcher that has multiple options for enormous money the Yankees are at the bottom of my list. There is something very rancid with the Cashman Rothschild performance science and pitching analytics department. Yankee Stadium is where pitchers go to fail. It has been for a long time.


Think fast, Randal - what did the Astros hit in this series? Don't look up the numbers, just give me your best guess.
arniefez  
Bill2 : 10/21/2019 6:25 pm : link
I think we have to use all the data to reach such a sweeping and definitive conclusion.

Sevy?
Paxton?
Tanaka?
German?
Robertson?
CC? ( after his career he would object if he thought Rothschild was incompetent? he speaks out without any fear on every other subject)
Chapman?

am I right that Gray was the only guy that has done better (for a year) in another set of parks?

perhaps the failure is in minor league development? or our sample size is not large enough? Or the slots the Yankees drew from 5 and six years ago aren't conducive to turning into Aces?

Are there more than 8 Ace SP in MLB?
RE: Agree on Cole  
Ron from Ninerland : 10/21/2019 8:20 pm : link
In comment 14639495 arniefez said:
Quote:
more important he leaves Houston than the Yankees get him. If I'm a pitcher that has multiple options for enormous money the Yankees are at the bottom of my list. There is something very rancid with the Cashman Rothschild performance science and pitching analytics department. Yankee Stadium is where pitchers go to fail. It has been for a long time.
You may be right concerning starting pitchers. The problem pre dates Cashman and Rothschild. Since George Steinbrenner acquired the Yankees, their farm system has developed only seven successful starting pitchers that pitched primarily for the Yankees. They are:

Ron Guidry, Scott Kamieneki, Andy Pettite, Chein Ming Wang, Phil Hughes, Ivan Nova and Luis Severino. Possibly Montgomery and German may one day be added to that list. Six other Yankee farm hands were successful primarily for other teams:

Doc Medich, Jim Beattie, Jim Deshalis, Doug Drabek, Al Lieter, Brian Boehringer and Scott McGregor.

Obviously we've done better with relief pitchers, but there is obviously something wrong with a system that has produced only 13 MLB starting pitchers in just under half a century. Almost as damning, when was the last time the Yanks acquired a starting pitching prospect who improved here as a starting pitcher ? If Paxton becomes a star, he may be the first. Its true that we've acquired stars who performed such as Sabathia and Tanaka, but how many pitchers have we acquired who flopped ? More than I can remember, but some of the recent ones are Gray, Eovaldi and Pineda.
Carson53, Dan Martin at the Post  
section125 : 10/21/2019 8:53 pm : link
just had an article that confirms what you said about Hicks might need surgery. Dodgers team Doc said he should get the ligament done.
So you did hear right. I must have missed it.

FWIW, Hicks said he will not do the surgery.
Hicks at Crossroads - ( New Window )
Dodgers aren't taking Stanton  
shyster : 10/22/2019 6:56 am : link
I recommend the linked article from Dodger Nation for anyone entertaining such hopes.

DN addresses the issue because of an article in 12UP promoting a Stanton trade.

[quote]The article seems to be written by a Yankees fan who wants to get rid of their disappointing player and doesn’t know how the Dodgers operate. The Dodgers absolutely have the firepower to get the deal done but that doesn’t make them a realistic landing spot.

If the Dodgers weren’t willing to sign Bryce Harper to a long-term deal in the offseason, they aren’t trading top prospects and locking themselves into that deal for an older player. Especially when the player has serious health concerns. . ..

If the Dodgers want to make a splash this off-season, they could just sign Gerritt Cole or Anthony Rendon, who are both much better players and fit the roster....

The only way a Stanton trade could work is if the Yankees eat most of his salary and take back A.J. Pollock. Even then, it’s still a stretch because Friedman and the Dodgers hate long-term deals.

It is very safe to say that Stanton won’t be a Dodger in the near future.[quote]

Although the article doesn't say spell it out, the reason the Dodgers might like to get out of A.J. Pollack's contract is that their outfield "issue" going into 2020 is that they already project to have four starters for the three spots: Bellinger, Pederson, Pollack and Alex Verdugo, who emerged while Pollack was on injury list.

Forget the Dodgers for GS.




dodger nation - ( New Window )
RE: Dodgers aren't taking Stanton  
shyster : 10/22/2019 6:58 am : link
I recommend the linked article from Dodger Nation for anyone entertaining such hopes.

DN addresses the issue because of an article in 12UP promoting a Stanton trade.

Quote:
The article seems to be written by a Yankees fan who wants to get rid of their disappointing player and doesn’t know how the Dodgers operate. The Dodgers absolutely have the firepower to get the deal done but that doesn’t make them a realistic landing spot.

If the Dodgers weren’t willing to sign Bryce Harper to a long-term deal in the offseason, they aren’t trading top prospects and locking themselves into that deal for an older player. Especially when the player has serious health concerns. . ..

If the Dodgers want to make a splash this off-season, they could just sign Gerritt Cole or Anthony Rendon, who are both much better players and fit the roster....

The only way a Stanton trade could work is if the Yankees eat most of his salary and take back A.J. Pollock. Even then, it’s still a stretch because Friedman and the Dodgers hate long-term deals.

It is very safe to say that Stanton won’t be a Dodger in the near future.


Although the article doesn't say spell it out, the reason the Dodgers might like to get out of A.J. Pollack's contract is that their outfield "issue" going into 2020 is that they already project to have four starters for the three spots: Bellinger, Pederson, Pollack and Alex Verdugo, who emerged while Pollack was on injury list.

Forget the Dodgers for GS.
A healthy Stanton is a decent LF...  
Dunedin81 : 10/22/2019 8:44 am : link
though even a healthy Stanton still should lose range over time. A dinged up Stanton is a DH and potentially a very good one. He is a lot more valuable to an AL team for that reason alone.
RE: A healthy Stanton is a decent LF...  
section125 : 10/22/2019 8:51 am : link
In comment 14640398 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
though even a healthy Stanton still should lose range over time. A dinged up Stanton is a DH and potentially a very good one. He is a lot more valuable to an AL team for that reason alone.


The Angels alongside Trout would be a good fit. I would still like to see Stanton healthy with the Yanks.
It'd be a good it...  
Dunedin81 : 10/22/2019 8:53 am : link
but zero chance Artie Moreno duplicates the Pujols move. The Cardinals are a bad fit for the above reason, but he would make sense to them as they haven't had a middle of the order that scared anyone in years.
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