Does anybody really see Johnny Mara firing Gettleman & Shurmur after this season? Unless we lose out, I'd say the odds are very high both of them are back in 2020 because Mara is all about continuity & staying in your comfort zone, even if the product is trash.
What this franchise desperately needs is someone with no ties to the organization who can come in & speak the blunt truth about what is wrong & how it can be fixed. But again, I don't see that happening.
What I guess I'm trying to say is that you can get rid of Gettleman & Shurmur & the same problem will be there because it starts at the top with Mara. What has he done to inspire confidence in this shit getting turned around?
I can't wait for our next GM to be Kevin Abrams! Yay!
So freaking sick of another season over before Halloween & starting to look at mocks for who we could take with the 3rd or 4th pick. Wellington used to say it was a successful season if we were playing meaningful games in December. Hell, I'd settle for playing meaningful games in early November nowadays.
That means a new coach, a new offense, and a year of stunted growth for DJ. It's not a good situation. If the Giants organization is having doubts about Shurmur then get rid of him now.
Robbie I don't agree with the Shurmur hate yet, but I think your point about DG and the rebuild are spot on. I don't think I am competent to judge Shurmur when we are trotting out ILBs and an FS that couldn't start for most good college teams.
I cannot see any scenario where Mara kicks both of them out the door after this season.
They both might find themselves in a room being told that they are on a very short leash if things go from bad to worse, but fired, this year, I don't think so.
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It took 2 years to clear the books. Our last 2 drafts have been very productive. I don't get the Gentleman hate. Has he been perfect? Of course not but we are moving in the right direction in terms of turning over the roster. The Niners are getting credit as a well run organization. They have sucked for years and now those draft picks are paying dividends. Shurmur and the staff need to go though.
Robbie I don't agree with the Shurmur hate yet, but I think your point about DG and the rebuild are spot on. I don't think I am competent to judge Shurmur when we are trotting out ILBs and an FS that couldn't start for most good college teams.
I have coached for almost 10 years of my life. Shurmur is horrible.
The last two drafts have been very productive - by what measure?
So far, Gettleman's scorecard - a complete failure in FA, picked a bust of a head coach, and his drafted rookies are incapable of getting out of their own way. Outside of Barkley, the only bright spot was Hernandez last season, and he looks average at best this year.
Let's continue to blame Reese for this though, because evaluating Gettleman on the moves he's actually made is too difficult to bear.
Also releasing Eli after the draft would have given him a chance to play for another team instead of running the scout team.
2) Shurmur gets one more year unless the season turns into a complete dumpster fire. See point 1 for reasoning, ownership knew this would be another building year.
3) While I think Gettleman was brought in with a short term focus to make a couple difficult decisions (replace Eli) and groom Kevin Abrams, I also think you should be careful what you wish for when you talk about replacing him. Gettleman has had 2 very good drafts and has started building the core that should have existed, but didn't when he took over. Despite some FA flops, Gettleman has done a fantastic job with the draft.
4) I believe Shurmur should give up the play calling. Nothing against his ability to do it, but balancing it and coaching the rest of the team is difficult and may not be something he's good at.
5) If anyone gets let go after this season, its more than likely Bettcher. Too many miscommunications in the secondary, too many instances where the team looks lost pre-snap. And by the way, how many TD's have we given up on Jet Sweeps this year? Yet we're still unable to adjust to the play.
Where do you see all this excellence, and why hasn't it translated into any performance on gameday?
I don't think Shurmur's the guy to lead this bunch either, but he's not THAT bad. You guys seem to want to put all the blame at his feet as if there's no chance that this unproven talent just isn't any good.
I can't recall the exact quote but it was along the lines of "it was going to take time" regarding the Giants getting good again.
To me this mindset is clearly evident in the team and how they are coached and played but much more of a coaching issue.
First this a terrible message to put out and secondly we sure have a coach who is on board and coaches with this mindset.
Where do you see all this excellence, and why hasn't it translated into any performance on gameday?
I don't think Shurmur's the guy to lead this bunch either, but he's not THAT bad. You guys seem to want to put all the blame at his feet as if there's no chance that this unproven talent just isn't any good.
Gettleman only had 6 picks his first draft and netted 4 starting players from it, 1 of which being the rookie of the year and our unquestioned best player. Last years draft has already netted us 3 starters (1 is the highest graded rookie) 2 strong role players and guys like Ballentine that are contributing in their own way (returning kicks).
The reality is you aren't getting 7 starters every year, if you can get 3 or 4 that are starters/contributors you're doing well. The reason why the team is bad has nothing to do with the last 2 drafts and more to do with the previous 5 or 6 which netted us 3 players still on the team.
This team was really, really bad when these two took over, and while I'm admittedly not happy with Shurmur, Gettleman has started to build the core of players that you need on your team. We didn't have this for him to add too when he took over, next year and the year after, we can add to the core and hopefully take the next step.
This pretty much covers it.
We all need to stop making excuses for Shurmur. He's a bad football coach.
I agree. The problem for fans is it's been 8 years of this. As another poster just said the Cardinals were the worst team in the league last year and just rolled us. Fans have lost their patience. Let's hope DJ and the rest of the rookies are part of the answer. And yes I have lost all confidence after yesterday in Shumur and Betcher.
2) Shurmur gets one more year unless the season turns into a complete dumpster fire. See point 1 for reasoning, ownership knew this would be another building year.
3) While I think Gettleman was brought in with a short term focus to make a couple difficult decisions (replace Eli) and groom Kevin Abrams, I also think you should be careful what you wish for when you talk about replacing him. Gettleman has had 2 very good drafts and has started building the core that should have existed, but didn't when he took over. Despite some FA flops, Gettleman has done a fantastic job with the draft.
4) I believe Shurmur should give up the play calling. Nothing against his ability to do it, but balancing it and coaching the rest of the team is difficult and may not be something he's good at.
5) If anyone gets let go after this season, its more than likely Bettcher. Too many miscommunications in the secondary, too many instances where the team looks lost pre-snap. And by the way, how many TD's have we given up on Jet Sweeps this year? Yet we're still unable to adjust to the play.
I agree with #1 except for the fact that the Giants will NOT be competing next year for a playoff spot.
#2 There is no next year for Pat Shurmur.
#3 I more or less agree with you regarding Gettleman and the Draft, but never forget that Gettleman will ultimately be judged on Daniel Jones and the jury is still very much out as to what we have in him.
#4 You make an excellent point. But I seriously question the ability of Pat Shurmur to rise above being an Offensive Coordinator. By what he says; by his body language; and by his record I'm convinced he's a total wash-out as a Head Coach.
#5 You make an excellent point. I will only add that Bettcher will be gone at the end of the season because the entire coaching staff will be let go.
1) Why bring back Eli then. If this was considered a lost/growing year then why pay Eli.
2) With #1 in mind, then why have Tanney here too. Don't tell me about him being cut, he was here for the offseason and training camp and only injuries elsewhere caused him to be cut.
3) #1 and #2 combined now make the rebuilding take your lumps thought even more moot.
4) With those in mind and assuming #2 was to be a mentor to Jones while Eli takes the bumps of the lost season then why bench Eli 2 games into a season you didnt expect to win in? That now goes against the theory of let Eli play this year out and Jones learn from Tanney in the room and Eli on the field gameday.
5) If that theory is truly right about multi year rebuild then why not more picks on Oline? Instead we have overpriced LT, stopgap RT, Vet G who is an upgrade but may not be in 2-3 years.
5a) Staying with the theory why spend so many draft picks on the secondary of a team that doesn't have much of a pass rush? If rebuilding get your core Pass Rusher and work back. One or two picks in the secondary sure but we went CB- Beal, CB-Baker, CB- Love and CB- Ballantine. We drafted 1 OT late and he missed the season.
6) Again along the theory lines, why draft multiple Dlinemen for a 3-4 Team that are all somewhat similar and even if they are Really good at their jobs can still only have a minimal impact without LB's who are quality and without Safeties who cN cover and tackle..
7) Why have so many VET journey WR's who are mainly JAGs and who will not develop anymore than their 4-7 years experience in the league has already provided them.. I would rather late RD draft picks or UDFA
get some chance to grow..
I just see so many contradictions in the theory and thought process to the actuality. Seems like we are hearing one thing while watching something else.
There was supposed to be major investment in the defense and theyre continually gashed. I don’t see any star players developing on that side of the ball.
The offensive line was supposedly rebuilt. What we’ve seen is a bottom 10 product in this league that was pushed around by one of the worst defenses in the NFL yesterday. The receivers are pedestrian and don’t scare anyone.
So far all I can see that’s a clear “victory” out of this rebuild is a running backs that has already missed time with an injury. What I see right now is limited improvement with big questions marks all over the field, especially at qb.
I don’t know how anyone gives Gettlemen a clear mandate to rule after the first 7 games.
Shurmer, on the other hand, has shown nothing to merit more time. I'm tired of wasted seasons, and we can't waste another one to see how he does with an experienced Daniel Jones.
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That's two drafts worth of players - with extra picks as a result of trades.
Where do you see all this excellence, and why hasn't it translated into any performance on gameday?
I don't think Shurmur's the guy to lead this bunch either, but he's not THAT bad. You guys seem to want to put all the blame at his feet as if there's no chance that this unproven talent just isn't any good.
Gettleman only had 6 picks his first draft and netted 4 starting players from it, 1 of which being the rookie of the year and our unquestioned best player. Last years draft has already netted us 3 starters (1 is the highest graded rookie) 2 strong role players and guys like Ballentine that are contributing in their own way (returning kicks).
The reality is you aren't getting 7 starters every year, if you can get 3 or 4 that are starters/contributors you're doing well. The reason why the team is bad has nothing to do with the last 2 drafts and more to do with the previous 5 or 6 which netted us 3 players still on the team.
This team was really, really bad when these two took over, and while I'm admittedly not happy with Shurmur, Gettleman has started to build the core of players that you need on your team. We didn't have this for him to add too when he took over, next year and the year after, we can add to the core and hopefully take the next step.
I think you're mistaking the fact that guys are starting with your evaluation of them.
His draft picks are on the field - the question is, on what level are they performing?
Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill - two guys I regularly see touted as being solid examples of players drafted by Gettleman. This season, neither of them looks like they'd be anything on another team aside from rotational depth. They're starting here, because the roster sucks.
Hernandez is another example - up and down all season, hasn't played very well at all. He was picked at the top of the 2nd round, expecting a player to be a solid starter there isn't exactly a stretch.
And finally Jones. He's an INC right now on anyone's card could turn out to be as good as he looked early on and better, or that could have been an aberration and he could turn out mediocre or worse. Too soon to tell, but you can't give anyone credit or blame for him yet.
Right now - Gettleman's accomplishments include a complete failure in FA, hiring coaches that don't seem worth a shit, and a bunch of players who might one day aspire to being solid starters. Aside from Barkley and Lawrence - who is also early into his career and could easily regress - not much to hang his hat on.
The results thus far should tell you something, and that something is not 'well, it's only year 2 of 5'.
The particularly lame one is explaining away Gettleman's bad decisions because he "had to," with the implication it was somehow still Reese's fault.
I'd puke if I knew Mara agreed with this type of performance assessment.
I'd also caution calling a verdict on the drafts. The 2018 class 23 games in looks like a 2 man draft, and 3 major incompletes.
The 2019 class looks very promising among the first rounders, and again the balance are incompletes (throw in Beal to that mix as well).
But do keep in mind these are the guys who, extenuating circumstances considered, are getting their asses kicked on the field.
He's got as many Ls in UFA and acquisitions as Ws.
Golden and Thomas are his best acquisitions. Zeitler and Tate get incompletes for circumstances, although Tate is a dipshit.
Stewart, Omameh, Martin, Solder, Latimer, Bethea, and Ogletree were all low return investments.
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In comment 14638078 jcn56 said:
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That's two drafts worth of players - with extra picks as a result of trades.
Where do you see all this excellence, and why hasn't it translated into any performance on gameday?
I don't think Shurmur's the guy to lead this bunch either, but he's not THAT bad. You guys seem to want to put all the blame at his feet as if there's no chance that this unproven talent just isn't any good.
Gettleman only had 6 picks his first draft and netted 4 starting players from it, 1 of which being the rookie of the year and our unquestioned best player. Last years draft has already netted us 3 starters (1 is the highest graded rookie) 2 strong role players and guys like Ballentine that are contributing in their own way (returning kicks).
The reality is you aren't getting 7 starters every year, if you can get 3 or 4 that are starters/contributors you're doing well. The reason why the team is bad has nothing to do with the last 2 drafts and more to do with the previous 5 or 6 which netted us 3 players still on the team.
This team was really, really bad when these two took over, and while I'm admittedly not happy with Shurmur, Gettleman has started to build the core of players that you need on your team. We didn't have this for him to add too when he took over, next year and the year after, we can add to the core and hopefully take the next step.
I think you're mistaking the fact that guys are starting with your evaluation of them.
His draft picks are on the field - the question is, on what level are they performing?
Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill - two guys I regularly see touted as being solid examples of players drafted by Gettleman. This season, neither of them looks like they'd be anything on another team aside from rotational depth. They're starting here, because the roster sucks.
Hernandez is another example - up and down all season, hasn't played very well at all. He was picked at the top of the 2nd round, expecting a player to be a solid starter there isn't exactly a stretch.
And finally Jones. He's an INC right now on anyone's card could turn out to be as good as he looked early on and better, or that could have been an aberration and he could turn out mediocre or worse. Too soon to tell, but you can't give anyone credit or blame for him yet.
Right now - Gettleman's accomplishments include a complete failure in FA, hiring coaches that don't seem worth a shit, and a bunch of players who might one day aspire to being solid starters. Aside from Barkley and Lawrence - who is also early into his career and could easily regress - not much to hang his hat on.
The results thus far should tell you something, and that something is not 'well, it's only year 2 of 5'.
I get where you're coming from, but think you're a little harsh on a couple of the guys. Hill lead this team in sacks last year and Carter has been around the QB a lot this year, especially the last couple games. These guys aren't starts, but if you can put together a defense with 8 or 9 guys around their caliber, suddenly you're pretty good.
Hernandez has his bad games, but is still an above average guard. He also plays next to 2 below average players (Solder is at this point) which will make him look worse than he is at times.
When it comes to the coaching and FA decisions, I agree. Shurmur seems like the type that is better as an OC and for the free agents, Golden is the only one we've had where bringing a guy in with "familiarity" to Gettleman or a coordinator has seemed to work.
Again, as I mentioned in my initial post, I don't think there was ever a long term plan for Gettleman (more then 4/5 years) and honestly think the same about Shurmur, but I remember the Jerry Reese drafts very well and know what things could look like without Gettleman.
The particularly lame one is explaining away Gettleman's bad decisions because he "had to," with the implication it was somehow still Reese's fault.
I'd puke if I knew Mara agreed with this type of performance assessment.
I'd also caution calling a verdict on the drafts. The 2018 class 23 games in looks like a 2 man draft, and 3 major incompletes.
The 2019 class looks very promising among the first rounders, and again the balance are incompletes (throw in Beal to that mix as well).
But do keep in mind these are the guys who, extenuating circumstances considered, are getting their asses kicked on the field.
He's got as many Ls in UFA and acquisitions as Ws.
Golden and Thomas are his best acquisitions. Zeitler and Tate get incompletes for circumstances, although Tate is a dipshit.
Stewart, Omameh, Martin, Solder, Latimer, Bethea, and Ogletree were all low return investments.
Agree with this. Since when does playing as a starter on one of the worst teams in the league demonstrate that a draft pick is good? DG’s drafts appear to be good at the top but how many times did Reese pick in the Top 6 and why is Reese, a marginal GM, the measuring stick?
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It took 2 years to clear the books. Our last 2 drafts have been very productive. I don't get the Gentleman hate. Has he been perfect? Of course not but we are moving in the right direction in terms of turning over the roster. The Niners are getting credit as a well run organization. They have sucked for years and now those draft picks are paying dividends. Shurmur and the staff need to go though.
this was a Gettleman offensive line that looked like Swiss cheese. A Gettleman front 7 that got manhandled. And a Gettleman hires coach who looks increasingly unqualified. Yes he needed to fix some parts of the team but he also choose the ingredients that are so far looking ugly (though I’m in the camp that Jones is going to be the franchise QB). It’s not all his fault but he shares a good chunk of the blame.
Agreed, DG gets no pass from me, these are his guys and this OL is no better than last year, no more excuses. While DJ might be the franchise guy, his lack of pocket awareness is startling. I am not sure if that is something you can fix or an innate ability, time will tell.
Who hired Shurmur? How is that not a knock on Gettleman? Also, this entire OL is Mr. Hog Mollie's creation and it blows. Blaming Reese is such a cop out. Gettleman has thrown gasoline on this dumpster fire.
That means a new coach, a new offense, and a year of stunted growth for DJ. It's not a good situation. If the Giants organization is having doubts about Shurmur then get rid of him now.
You guys and this DJ this and that but Shurmur has to go. Shurmur goes and DJ goes...no new coach is going to want this guy. DJ is Gettlemen and shurmur's guy.
No no no, you don't understand - that was all Mara and Tisch! Dave Gettleman only makes great moves - all the bad ones were the owners' fault!
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Who hired Shurmur? How is that not a knock on Gettleman?
No no no, you don't understand - that was all Mara and Tisch! Dave Gettleman only makes great moves - all the bad ones were the owners' fault!
Can we hear one more time about BJ HILL being an example of the greatness of Mr. Hog Mollie? I seriously forget hes on the team every Sunday and am only reminded he is on the team when team Hog Mollie comes out to make excuses on Monday morning about the latest debacle.
Im sick of it. This team sucks. This franchise sucks. And Mr. Hog Mollie sucks.
Guess who brought this OL with great investment in it?
Guess who overpaid for a scrub LB?
Guess who extended an of injured WR with serious concussion problems?
Guess who gutted this defense?
Guess who drafted Baker?
Guess who completely re-do the defensive secondary? and let me know if any pieces are there for the future?
Guess who decided to pay an Old, ineffective QB 17M this year to start 2 games?
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In comment 14638089 Biteymax22 said:
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In comment 14638078 jcn56 said:
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That's two drafts worth of players - with extra picks as a result of trades.
Where do you see all this excellence, and why hasn't it translated into any performance on gameday?
I don't think Shurmur's the guy to lead this bunch either, but he's not THAT bad. You guys seem to want to put all the blame at his feet as if there's no chance that this unproven talent just isn't any good.
Gettleman only had 6 picks his first draft and netted 4 starting players from it, 1 of which being the rookie of the year and our unquestioned best player. Last years draft has already netted us 3 starters (1 is the highest graded rookie) 2 strong role players and guys like Ballentine that are contributing in their own way (returning kicks).
The reality is you aren't getting 7 starters every year, if you can get 3 or 4 that are starters/contributors you're doing well. The reason why the team is bad has nothing to do with the last 2 drafts and more to do with the previous 5 or 6 which netted us 3 players still on the team.
This team was really, really bad when these two took over, and while I'm admittedly not happy with Shurmur, Gettleman has started to build the core of players that you need on your team. We didn't have this for him to add too when he took over, next year and the year after, we can add to the core and hopefully take the next step.
I think you're mistaking the fact that guys are starting with your evaluation of them.
His draft picks are on the field - the question is, on what level are they performing?
Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill - two guys I regularly see touted as being solid examples of players drafted by Gettleman. This season, neither of them looks like they'd be anything on another team aside from rotational depth. They're starting here, because the roster sucks.
Hernandez is another example - up and down all season, hasn't played very well at all. He was picked at the top of the 2nd round, expecting a player to be a solid starter there isn't exactly a stretch.
And finally Jones. He's an INC right now on anyone's card could turn out to be as good as he looked early on and better, or that could have been an aberration and he could turn out mediocre or worse. Too soon to tell, but you can't give anyone credit or blame for him yet.
Right now - Gettleman's accomplishments include a complete failure in FA, hiring coaches that don't seem worth a shit, and a bunch of players who might one day aspire to being solid starters. Aside from Barkley and Lawrence - who is also early into his career and could easily regress - not much to hang his hat on.
The results thus far should tell you something, and that something is not 'well, it's only year 2 of 5'.
I get where you're coming from, but think you're a little harsh on a couple of the guys. Hill lead this team in sacks last year and Carter has been around the QB a lot this year, especially the last couple games. These guys aren't starts, but if you can put together a defense with 8 or 9 guys around their caliber, suddenly you're pretty good.
Hernandez has his bad games, but is still an above average guard. He also plays next to 2 below average players (Solder is at this point) which will make him look worse than he is at times.
When it comes to the coaching and FA decisions, I agree. Shurmur seems like the type that is better as an OC and for the free agents, Golden is the only one we've had where bringing a guy in with "familiarity" to Gettleman or a coordinator has seemed to work.
Again, as I mentioned in my initial post, I don't think there was ever a long term plan for Gettleman (more then 4/5 years) and honestly think the same about Shurmur, but I remember the Jerry Reese drafts very well and know what things could look like without Gettleman.
RE: BJ Hill leading the team in sacks is like being the tallest midget, so freakin' what!
That means a new coach, a new offense, and a year of stunted growth for DJ. It's not a good situation. If the Giants organization is having doubts about Shurmur then get rid of him now.
+1
Gettleman worries me with his FA record going into next summer. He's going to have money to spend. I worry.
However as long as he is drafting 4-5 players a year that upgrade our roster, i'm not sure how much more he can do. This team was in the toilet when he got here. Bad players and bad contracts.
The coaching staff is the problem here.
Most here say we won’t do anything until 2020 or 2021, that we need to continue to draft well. Yet, when we don’t do well in 2019, people get bent out of shape.
Patience.
I honestly havent seen him make a tackle this season. Lawrence flashes, Hill does not.
+1
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In comment 14638078 jcn56 said:
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That's two drafts worth of players - with extra picks as a result of trades.
Where do you see all this excellence, and why hasn't it translated into any performance on gameday?
I don't think Shurmur's the guy to lead this bunch either, but he's not THAT bad. You guys seem to want to put all the blame at his feet as if there's no chance that this unproven talent just isn't any good.
Gettleman only had 6 picks his first draft and netted 4 starting players from it, 1 of which being the rookie of the year and our unquestioned best player. Last years draft has already netted us 3 starters (1 is the highest graded rookie) 2 strong role players and guys like Ballentine that are contributing in their own way (returning kicks).
The reality is you aren't getting 7 starters every year, if you can get 3 or 4 that are starters/contributors you're doing well. The reason why the team is bad has nothing to do with the last 2 drafts and more to do with the previous 5 or 6 which netted us 3 players still on the team.
This team was really, really bad when these two took over, and while I'm admittedly not happy with Shurmur, Gettleman has started to build the core of players that you need on your team. We didn't have this for him to add too when he took over, next year and the year after, we can add to the core and hopefully take the next step.
I think you're mistaking the fact that guys are starting with your evaluation of them.
His draft picks are on the field - the question is, on what level are they performing?
Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill - two guys I regularly see touted as being solid examples of players drafted by Gettleman. This season, neither of them looks like they'd be anything on another team aside from rotational depth. They're starting here, because the roster sucks.
Hernandez is another example - up and down all season, hasn't played very well at all. He was picked at the top of the 2nd round, expecting a player to be a solid starter there isn't exactly a stretch.
And finally Jones. He's an INC right now on anyone's card could turn out to be as good as he looked early on and better, or that could have been an aberration and he could turn out mediocre or worse. Too soon to tell, but you can't give anyone credit or blame for him yet.
Right now - Gettleman's accomplishments include a complete failure in FA, hiring coaches that don't seem worth a shit, and a bunch of players who might one day aspire to being solid starters. Aside from Barkley and Lawrence - who is also early into his career and could easily regress - not much to hang his hat on.
The results thus far should tell you something, and that something is not 'well, it's only year 2 of 5'.
overly pessimistic
The question now is: will 2020 be a leap forward?
By the measure of the previous regimes's 3rd rounder - Jerrel Jernigan, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, the Syracuse DT, the Berkeley QB, IDK them all but pretty much every single 3rd round selection Reese and Ross made.
By that standard Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill look very good.
That's an assessment you reserve for something like the Colts' 2018 draft. Why apply it to either the 18 or 19 Giants' draft at this point, let alone both of them?
I'd puke if I knew Mara agreed with this type of performance assessment.
Then I suggest listening to this season's final Mara press conference while in close proximity to a toilet.
By the measure of the previous regimes's 3rd rounder - Jerrel Jernigan, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum, the Syracuse DT, the Berkeley QB, IDK them all but pretty much every single 3rd round selection Reese and Ross made.
By that standard Lorenzo Carter and BJ Hill look very good.
It's interesting that you stuck to the third round, but still - all of those guys contributed, they just weren't very good. They had a few flashes and not much else.
Which is exactly where Gettleman's draft picks are right now. At best you can say they have potential - nobody is performing at a high level right now, save for Barkley and maybe Lawrence.
overly pessimistic
No, just realistic. If you guys want to pretend the drafts have been great and there are some solid, possibly very good players here - have at it.
If you've seen it in terms of play on the field, point it out. Until then, as Mr. Parcells was fond of saying, 'you are what your record says you are'. And right now, the record says the Giants are garbage.
Has he not done that??
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the roster. When does he plan to start?
Has he not done that??
I went into the season really bullish on last year's draft, and really cognizant of value (age, cost, etc.).
From the 2018 draft I'm down to believing Barkley and Hernandez are clear upgrades talent wise.
Beal hasn't seen the field, Hill, McIntosh, and Carter have had very pedestrian showings this year. Certainly not the type of progress I thought was coming.
Barkley > Darkwa
Hernandez > Fluker
Carter < Kennard
Hill < JPP
McIntosh = Robert Thomas
Any big argument there?
Of course, he also cost the 2nd pick in the 2nd round...
What are we seeing that would lead us to believe that Gettleman/Shurmur will lead the Giants to a winning record in 2020? We'd have to take it on faith that something fundamental will change.
The truth is this team isn't trying all that hard to win. If it were, it would have at least locked down game management by hiring some data analysts to help out the coaching staff in real time. Instead we end up punting down two scores in New England, and then running on 3rd and 18 to set up a 4th and 15 where we go for it against the Cardinals.
The Giants are trying to win; they're just hoping to win. We're a chalk W on other people's schedules. Pathetic.