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Gutless DeAndre Baker should have been benched yesterd

cosmicj : 10/21/2019 9:27 am
I had some time this morning so reviewed yesterday’s defeat by the Cardinals on the NFL GamePass. My intent was to take a closer look at what was going on with the pass blocking but on defensive snaps, I focused on DeAndre Baker and was genuinely shocked by what I saw.

Baker’s performance yesterday puts Eli Apple’s famous business decision vs the 49ers a couple of seasons ago in the shade. This was an example of total gutlessness and letting down your teammates in the biggest way. I think Parcells would have planted Baker’s ass firmly on the bench in the 2nd quarter and made the next week’s practice very, very unpleasant. Instead, Bettcher and the Shurm let this guy play out the entire game.

Baker a) continually avoided contact, even when the play was to his side; b) was blocked easily; c) stayed away from the play when it was on the other side or midfield. One of the reasons the Giants defense was so ineffective yesterday was that they were pretty much playing with 10 men on the field.

The Cards were running plays to Baker’s side (left) throughout, and enjoyed a lot of success. That’s one of the reasons Kyler threw so few passes. Why air it out when you can gain good ground yardage all the time? A good example is the 3rd Cards TD, a run towards Baker’s side. Posters have been noting Bethea’s bad angle – which is correct – but at the end zone line, Baker is busy being blocked by the WR with nary an effort to break the block and get involved in the play.

Another example: 6:35 left in the 3rd qt, Murray is pressured and scrambles over to Baker’s side. You’d expect a CB covering a short route would be very involved here. Nope. Baker doesn’t even make an effort to participate in the play. He leaves it to his teammates.

Baker made exactly two good plays yesterday, the pass breakup deep in the 1st half, which I thought could have been flagged, and a solid open field tackle in the 4th quarter. Apart from that, his day was abysmal, not because of performance, but because of a sheer lack of effort.

Baker is really concerning me. He’s acting like Deion out there without anything like the results and abilities #21 had. The contrast with the supposed malcontent Janoris Jenkins was stark. Jenkins was repeatedly involved in run support and went after Cards players. Baker looked like he didn’t’ want to be there. The fact that he wasn’t benched shows that a lack of player accountability is part of the Shurmur problem.
I saw a play  
djm : 10/21/2019 9:33 am : link
One of the many long Td runs by the cards running back no one ever heard of, baker checked out and stayed to the side while the back walked untouched into the end zone. Baker might be able to cover but he plays like a pussy at times. Just great.

Fun times.
I didn’t see gamepass yet so I’ll just say this  
Tuckrule : 10/21/2019 9:35 am : link
When a team runs to one side of another they are not targeting the cornerback in run support. They are going after the linebackers who were brutal yesterday.
RE: I didn’t see gamepass yet so I’ll just say this  
gmenatlarge : 10/21/2019 9:39 am : link
In comment 14638257 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
When a team runs to one side of another they are not targeting the cornerback in run support. They are going after the linebackers who were brutal yesterday.


LBs invisible all day, it's like the giants play with an entire level of defense missing.
Tuckrule  
cosmicj : 10/21/2019 9:45 am : link
Jenkins and Haley were continually involved in tackles and pursuit. Baker was invisible and unwilling. I realize CBs try to save their bodies in situations like this, but Baker's play went way beyond taking precautions.

We have a major attitude problem here.
you mean a 185lb, 5'11" 22 year old rookie corner  
Rory : 10/21/2019 9:47 am : link
was trying to avoid some heavy contact to avoid a possible injury to start his career?

my question is how can you not expect that?

Only gutless people I see are ones who make such damming statements behind a message board, who have no clue what they are talking about.



Beal  
Mdgiantsfan : 10/21/2019 9:51 am : link
at least we'll soon have Beal ready to come right the ship right?
he didn't have a good day in run support  
UConn4523 : 10/21/2019 9:52 am : link
i'm not ready to call something gutless when so much of the defense looks lost. We have a major coaching problem, i'd start there.
RE: you mean a 185lb, 5'11  
jvm52106 : 10/21/2019 9:52 am : link
In comment 14638295 Rory said:
Quote:
was trying to avoid some heavy contact to avoid a possible injury to start his career?

my question is how can you not expect that?

Only gutless people I see are ones who make such damming statements behind a message board, who have no clue what they are talking about.




Umm, your whole point reeks of what is wrong with this team. If hevisn't full of energy and youthful aggression now then imagine the business decisions coming two years from now. No offense but if you are ok with zero effort then be ok witb bottom feeder results..
Giants play a 3-4  
Jimmy Googs : 10/21/2019 9:53 am : link
and it’s difficult without the 4...
RE: RE: you mean a 185lb, 5'11  
Rory : 10/21/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14638316 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638295 Rory said:


Quote:


was trying to avoid some heavy contact to avoid a possible injury to start his career?

my question is how can you not expect that?

Only gutless people I see are ones who make such damming statements behind a message board, who have no clue what they are talking about.






Umm, your whole point reeks of what is wrong with this team. If hevisn't full of energy and youthful aggression now then imagine the business decisions coming two years from now. No offense but if you are ok with zero effort then be ok witb bottom feeder results..


I'm ok with letting these guys develop before making rash judgments. I try to look at the overall picture instead of micro analyzing each minute detail week to week.
RE: Giants play a 3-4  
islander1 : 10/21/2019 10:01 am : link
In comment 14638320 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
and it’s difficult without the 4...


This. The answer starts and ends with this.
We are running a defensive scheme that doesn't play to the strengths we have.

Why?
RE: RE: Giants play a 3-4  
Toth029 : 10/21/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14638355 islander1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638320 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


and it’s difficult without the 4...



This. The answer starts and ends with this.
We are running a defensive scheme that doesn't play to the strengths we have.

Why?

Ok say the Giants ran a 4-3

Carter-Hill-Lawrence-Golden
?-Ogletree-Mayo

Uh, who are your linebackers? Ximines or Carter are not 43 backers.
I said this a week or two ago when we were discussing Baker  
Bill L : 10/21/2019 11:09 am : link
I think he looks soft.
Any player on defense needs to be ready to hit someone  
PatersonPlank : 10/21/2019 11:18 am : link
Its the nature of the position, and yes even for defensive backs. If you are not then what kind of a defense is it? Running backs will be going untouched all over the field. Also this is not a "rookie" thing, its something you are taught since 6th grade, and if you don't like to hit they usually move you to offense.

If this is true its very concerning.
The complaints about the 3-4 are a bit too much  
BillT : 10/21/2019 11:25 am : link
When we played a 4-3 the calls to go to a 3-4 were everywhere. Almost a daily occurrence on BBI. Well, they did and it meant having to get rid of every 4-3 DE on the roster. Also meant elevating the LBs, the weakest unit on the D, to the most important unit. So, now we're going to complain about not having the LBs to play a 3-4? What did folks expect.
The red flags with Baker started in camp  
Jim in Forest Hills : 10/21/2019 11:29 am : link
when they had Janoris miked up.

Jamoris asked Baker (hurt) - "You know what you got to do today?"

Baker - "I ain't got to do shit today"

Jenkins, pointing to his head - "take mental reps, learn"

Not a be all end all, just a red flag, kid was checked out for the day.
Jenkins / tackle?  
Carl in CT : 10/21/2019 11:33 am : link
That would be a first. Bring back Mark Collins. We haven’t had a tough corner in 25 years.
RE: The complaints about the 3-4 are a bit too much  
jcn56 : 10/21/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14638644 BillT said:
Quote:
When we played a 4-3 the calls to go to a 3-4 were everywhere. Almost a daily occurrence on BBI. Well, they did and it meant having to get rid of every 4-3 DE on the roster. Also meant elevating the LBs, the weakest unit on the D, to the most important unit. So, now we're going to complain about not having the LBs to play a 3-4? What did folks expect.


I agree with this. Some people make it sound like the team took a fan survey and decided to switch to a 3-4. That decision was made as part of the coaching and GM hires, not in a vacuum.
Interesting thanks.  
mittenedman : 10/21/2019 12:21 pm : link
I realize he was injured last week, but the fact they aren't giving Ballentine more PT is ridiculous IMO. He outplayed Baker in camp and deserves it.

Sends the message no matter how good you play, it doesn't matter. Where the real message should be draft position goes out the window when you get here.
Not  
Les in TO : 10/21/2019 12:24 pm : link
Good. It’s one thing to make a coverage mistake another to be completely disengaged in run defense
RE: The complaints about the 3-4 are a bit too much  
Matt M. : 10/21/2019 12:29 pm : link
In comment 14638644 BillT said:
Quote:
When we played a 4-3 the calls to go to a 3-4 were everywhere. Almost a daily occurrence on BBI. Well, they did and it meant having to get rid of every 4-3 DE on the roster. Also meant elevating the LBs, the weakest unit on the D, to the most important unit. So, now we're going to complain about not having the LBs to play a 3-4? What did folks expect.
I, for one, was never a fan of moving to a 3-4 because LB was a glaring weakness for years. We didn't a few years ago, and still donxt have the LB to play a 3-4 scheme.
RE: The red flags with Baker started in camp  
santacruzom : 10/21/2019 3:39 pm : link
In comment 14638658 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
when they had Janoris miked up.

Jamoris asked Baker (hurt) - "You know what you got to do today?"

Baker - "I ain't got to do shit today"

Jenkins, pointing to his head - "take mental reps, learn"

Not a be all end all, just a red flag, kid was checked out for the day.


What??? That happened?

If so then, uh, yeah... I'd say that's what you'd call a red flag.
RE: you mean a 185lb, 5'11  
EricJ : 10/21/2019 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14638295 Rory said:
Quote:
was trying to avoid some heavy contact to avoid a possible injury to start his career?

my question is how can you not expect that?

Only gutless people I see are ones who make such damming statements behind a message board, who have no clue what they are talking about.




Fuck that.. there have been plenty of smaller corners in the league who do not shy away from contact. He needs to stick his head in there or go sell insurance.
You simply cannot revisit corner every other year  
idiotsavant : 10/21/2019 7:26 pm : link
Eli Apple , Baker...

I'm drafting two very fast and good free safeties and maybe that super fast ilb / s (Simmons?) 1,2,3 in the draft. Or 3,2,1 whatever

That will help your roster corners
RE: you mean a 185lb, 5'11  
SomeFan : 10/21/2019 7:40 pm : link
In comment 14638295 Rory said:
Quote:
was trying to avoid some heavy contact to avoid a possible injury to start his career?

my question is how can you not expect that?

Only gutless people I see are ones who make such damming statements behind a message board, who have no clue what they are talking about.




What?! Don’t make a tackle or take on a blocker; let the other guys get hurt! That is one tucked up take you have.
Not the first game we’ve seen this.  
KWALL2 : 10/21/2019 8:12 pm : link
Baker doesn’t hustle to the ball and not a willing tackler. Size doesn’t matter. He isn’t a super athletic lockdown CB who can get away with it. Rookie class looks really strong but not Baker for a first round pick. Disappointing so far.
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