With the 2019 Draft, I was concerned that the Giants were not going anywhere because of (a) front office stinks, (b) coach is a loser, and (c) not enough talent across the board no matter what happens in the draft.
So Allen falls to #6. We pass and take Jones.
I feel the pain with Daniel Jones. He has talent. I am sick of hearing how well he throws into tight windows. For all of that he throws interceptions and fumbles way too often. And, no, that is not acceptable for a rookie. I am concerned he is learning to many bad habits. The stats so far bear me out on that; plus he is holding the ball too long and forcing passes. I remain convinced that Eli should be the starting QB; but unfortunately, that train apparently has left.
The talent players on offense, e.g. Barkley, Engram and Shepard are hurt. Shepard should have never been brought back. I knew before the Cardinals game that Engram with his sprained knee in the rain would be ineffectual. One catch? Barkley should have been held out one more week. Throw Gallman to the lions (including next game). Now, Barkley is hurt again. He did not look Barleyesque yesterday for whatever reason. And I agree with Tate's commentary after the game. At least Tate brought it to the field.
So, Josh Allen? 5 Sacks, 21 Combined Tackles, 7 for losses, 9 QB Hits.
I still wish the Giants took Allen and looked to 2020 or 2021 for a QB. Because the record, coaching staff and front office all appears deficient. Add lack of sufficient talent and it seems to me the Giants wasted a #6. And Shurmur has the excuse of lack of talent. That is B.S.! It is his "watch" and he does not take ownership or know what leadership is and is expected from him. He stinks.
Oh, and when the Giants ultimately fire Shurmur, Jones will have to start all over again with a new coach and a new system; assuming the new coach doesn't want to "Rosen" him.
FWIW
It's hard to argue that point. One thing I will say, is Darnold has not showed much better than Jones so far. Time will tell.
He's a rookie and playing like one. He's made some excellent throws, and some terrible ones. Eli looked like garbage for most of his rookie season too, in case some of you have forgotten. I agree that it's silly when people try to claim Jones is actually playing great. He isn't. It's just as silly to use some typical rookie struggles to declare that, after five whole starts, that he will never be a successful NFL quarterback.
And for the love of god, if people are judging a rookie QB after 5 games - that's just madness, especially when takes in two of those games supposedly cemented the position for the foreseeable future
Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb.
Lamar is already showing to be the biggest difference maker in that draft and Chubb will wind up having a better career than Barkley, as he is a superior between the tackles runner.
Then we could have taken Josh Allen in 2019.
It's hindsight, yes, but that seems like the better plan, doesn't it?
Rookie QBs flash and struggle. So far we have seen DJ do both. No conclusion about him being either a bust or a savior are warranted after 5 games.
If you think Eli should still be the quarterback of this team after watching the past two seasons and the first two games of this season, there not much anything anyone could say to convince you, you re wrong.
But if you re an Eli fan first and a Giants fan second, your ot makes sense. Not saying you are, but don’t know how else you could conclude he should still be the quarterback
In his first start Jones overcame and 18 pt deficit, something Eli never accomplishing 15 seasons
Think you need to give the kid a break here.
I hate the Eli Jones comparisons. Eli played a great game in his 5th start and was making progress. Admittedly he had a better cast but still. DJ is still fumbling the ball like crazy and looks to be worse. Eli was a promising pick ... DJ was a wtf pick at 6. What has changed?
A big difference is that in 2004 Eli was basically learning rocket surgery in Coughlin's system, Jones is playing in this pop-warner Shurmur WCO system that you could plug any idiot into and have up to speed in a week, and now that there's film on him he's looking worse every week
[quote] traded the #2 pick and gotten two firsts and drafted:
Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb.
Lamar is already showing to be the biggest difference maker in that draft and Chubb will wind up having a better career than Barkley, as he is a superior between the tackles runner.
Then we could have taken Josh Allen in 2019.
It's hindsight, yes, but that seems like the better plan, doesn't it? [/quote
Who were they getting two firsts from?
Lamar Jackson? Give me a fucking break. People are getting on a rookie behind a shit OL about turnovers. Lamar has 4 passing TDs and 5 INTs in his last 5 games. He has 3 rushing TDs and 4 fumbles. His stats are skewed from playing the Dolphins at the beginning of the year.
[quote] traded the #2 pick and gotten two firsts and drafted:
Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb.
Lamar is already showing to be the biggest difference maker in that draft and Chubb will wind up having a better career than Barkley, as he is a superior between the tackles runner.
Then we could have taken Josh Allen in 2019.
It's hindsight, yes, but that seems like the better plan, doesn't it? [/quote
Who were they getting two firsts from?
Lamar Jackson? Give me a fucking break. People are getting on a rookie behind a shit OL about turnovers. Lamar has 4 passing TDs and 5 INTs in his last 5 games. He has 3 rushing TDs and 4 fumbles. His stats are skewed from playing the Dolphins at the beginning of the year.
And hell, for as much as people talk about emulating the ravens, interestingly enough, they did something that's a huge no-no - they went and threw $$$ at a RB coming off his first contract......
It's pretty remarkable, isn't it. It's like the TV was invented in 2006.
I'm as concerned as anybody but about this team, but Jones isn't at the top of my list right now. I think his floor is adequate starter.
They need to fix the line and get him some weapons, and a coach and a defense.
We would not be a better team with Darnold and Allen instead of Barkley/Jones. They aren't the problem.
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In comment 14638359 AndyMilligan said:
[quote] traded the #2 pick and gotten two firsts and drafted:
Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb.
Lamar is already showing to be the biggest difference maker in that draft and Chubb will wind up having a better career than Barkley, as he is a superior between the tackles runner.
Then we could have taken Josh Allen in 2019.
It's hindsight, yes, but that seems like the better plan, doesn't it? [/quote
Who were they getting two firsts from?
Lamar Jackson? Give me a fucking break. People are getting on a rookie behind a shit OL about turnovers. Lamar has 4 passing TDs and 5 INTs in his last 5 games. He has 3 rushing TDs and 4 fumbles. His stats are skewed from playing the Dolphins at the beginning of the year.
The Bill.. two mid firsts would have done it..
The Bills offered the Giants two first rounders?
pfft, BJ Hill had 5.5 sacks in only 4 games! /s
Even this year, while they are 4-1, don’t you think it’s mostly because of their defense?
Josh can’t compare to Jones’ accuracy....
If you want to discuss Jones play then fair enough, he's been up and down like any rookie. But please stop with the Eli would have done this or not that, and I mean this for both Eli supporters and Eli "non-supporters".
Either works...
:-)
Again... look at the other rookie QBs over time and see what their starts looked like and probably under better conditions too.
I am not worried about Jones. He is actually one of the few concerns that I have with this team.
And hell, for as much as people talk about emulating the ravens, interestingly enough, they did something that's a huge no-no - they went and threw $$$ at a RB coming off his first contract......
Lamar Jackson had one good drive yesterday and people were like See! He's awesome! I see this shit with casual fans and scrambling QBs all the time. A QB scrambling for 40 yards looks a lot more electric than a 40 yard pass, but last I checked 40 yards is still 40 yards. Its shades of Mike Vick again. QB's make more money than RB's because they are responsible for more yards.
LOL
Barkley bad too
Might be good next week
People were quick to proclaim Jones the franchise after two games, why can’t they let others have their opposing views?
QB is the most important position, so gambling on one is understandable. It’s pretty clear now RB is a luxury a team like ours just doesn’t need right now.
And hell, for as much as people talk about emulating the ravens, interestingly enough, they did something that's a huge no-no - they went and threw $$$ at a RB coming off his first contract......
To be fair - they signed Ingram to a 3 year 15M deal, it wasn't breaking the bank ala Gurley/Elliot.
Barkley bad too
Might be good next week
Bingo!
Remember after his player of the week designation how many came on here and said, “I was wrong about DJ” after only one game? They also opine how rookie QBs will have their ups and downs.
You need to see an optometrist then because they are nothing alike.
I still like the Jones pick.
The Jones fumble near mid field in the 3rd quarter was a result of having a pass catching TE responsible for protecting Jones' blind side against C Jones - just asking for problems. Now, hopefully Jones will learn to recognize that he has to get that ball out quickly, even if it means throwing the ball a Barkley's feet and moving to the next down.
Then in the 4th quarter, Cards blitz a DB who Reemers fans out to block, Zeigler looks inside, not sure if he blocked anyone, and C Jones runs untouched between them. To add a cherry on top, Barkley is right there and could have slowed him down some, but he rights out the way to his right.
The team is very poorly prepared week in and week out.
Chandler Jones wasn't on Daniel Jones' blind side on that play.
To start, I'll go on record again that Barkley and Jones were not my first choice in either draft. I have nothing against either player and I wasn't angry with their selection at the time since WTF do I know anyway? I recognize that Barkley is one of the best RBs in the game and Jones has shown enough that I think he has the potential to be a solid starting QB and perhaps a star if he develops.
However, I think there is a legitimate question of whether the Giants would have been better off drafting Darnold/Bradley Chubb/Nelson in the 1st and a RB like Chubb or Kerryon Johnson in the 2nd in 2018 and Josh Allen at 6 in 2019 with an eye on the QBs in 2020.
The thing is that we won't have any kind of answer to this for years, if ever. It hinges on the careers of Barkley and those 2nd tier RBs, as well as the development and careers of Jones, the 2018 QB class, the 2019 QB class, and even the 2020 QB class to a lesser extent.
It's an interesting question, I think, but ultimately futile to try to answer with any certainty by anyone not suffering from Dunning-Kruger. At least not for years and years.
And if tampa bay actually had a professional level kicker, the Giants would now be 1-6 with Jones.
For the last two weeks we heard how tough it was facing the #6 defense and the #1 defense on the league. The Cardinals rank near the bottom in defense. That did not seem to make much of a difference.
In his first start Jones overcame and 18 pt deficit, something Eli never accomplishing 15 seasons
Think you need to give the kid a break here.
let's see him do it again now that there is tape on him. Heck TB obviously slept on his scrambling at Duke and never bothered to do it. He could n't even overcome a 6 point deficit yesterday against the Cards.
People were quick to proclaim Jones the franchise after two games, why can’t they let others have their opposing views?
QB is the most important position, so gambling on one is understandable. It’s pretty clear now RB is a luxury a team like ours just doesn’t need right now.
You'd rather have DJs turn overs? Why not Eli's turn overs? He used to be a gunslinger before these horrible West Coast Offence bullshit coaches were hired.
But rather have Djs turnovers. OK that is a good opinion. Where do you go with something like that? Can't help but wonder how many other hysterical Duke fans have that opinion on this board.
To start, I'll go on record again that Barkley and Jones were not my first choice in either draft. I have nothing against either player and I wasn't angry with their selection at the time since WTF do I know anyway? I recognize that Barkley is one of the best RBs in the game and Jones has shown enough that I think he has the potential to be a solid starting QB and perhaps a star if he develops.
However, I think there is a legitimate question of whether the Giants would have been better off drafting Darnold/Bradley Chubb/Nelson in the 1st and a RB like Chubb or Kerryon Johnson in the 2nd in 2018 and Josh Allen at 6 in 2019 with an eye on the QBs in 2020.
The thing is that we won't have any kind of answer to this for years, if ever. It hinges on the careers of Barkley and those 2nd tier RBs, as well as the development and careers of Jones, the 2018 QB class, the 2019 QB class, and even the 2020 QB class to a lesser extent.
It's an interesting question, I think, but ultimately futile to try to answer with any certainty by anyone not suffering from Dunning-Kruger. At least not for years and years.
Oh I think we've seen enough. When Barley plays well like last season the Giants lose a lot of games. When Barley plays bad like yesterday the Giants lose just the same. I have to laugh at all the people acting like Gettlemen is another business as usual Giants insider GM when Ernie would NEVER pick a RB that high and build a team around him
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The OP is an idiot, but I think these two drafts will be analyzed and overanalyzed for years to come, much like the Manning-Rivers trade in 2004 and for good reason.
To start, I'll go on record again that Barkley and Jones were not my first choice in either draft. I have nothing against either player and I wasn't angry with their selection at the time since WTF do I know anyway? I recognize that Barkley is one of the best RBs in the game and Jones has shown enough that I think he has the potential to be a solid starting QB and perhaps a star if he develops.
However, I think there is a legitimate question of whether the Giants would have been better off drafting Darnold/Bradley Chubb/Nelson in the 1st and a RB like Chubb or Kerryon Johnson in the 2nd in 2018 and Josh Allen at 6 in 2019 with an eye on the QBs in 2020.
The thing is that we won't have any kind of answer to this for years, if ever. It hinges on the careers of Barkley and those 2nd tier RBs, as well as the development and careers of Jones, the 2018 QB class, the 2019 QB class, and even the 2020 QB class to a lesser extent.
It's an interesting question, I think, but ultimately futile to try to answer with any certainty by anyone not suffering from Dunning-Kruger. At least not for years and years.
Oh I think we've seen enough. When Barley plays well like last season the Giants lose a lot of games. When Barley plays bad like yesterday the Giants lose just the same. I have to laugh at all the people acting like Gettlemen is another business as usual Giants insider GM when Ernie would NEVER pick a RB that high and build a team around him
Holy shit you are a dumb dumb.
But fate is the hunter. Timing matters. IMHO, this team is not ready for a potential franchise QB. And his statistics to date and the performance of the team indicates as such.
I mentioned David Carr because I believe he was a good prospect for being a franchise QB. In 2002 in 16 games, his team was 4-12. He completed 52.5% of his passes. 9TDs and 15INTs, 76 Sacks and 13 Fumbles.
In five full games, Daniel Jones has 6TDs, 7INTs, 61.1% completion of passes, 18 sacks (over 16 games that is tracking to 50 sacks), 6 Fumbles. Seems to track Carr.
Seems to me that fate is handing Jones a bad set of cards.
I’m concerned that he is being ruined by the current situation with the Giants. And that is my point. As such I would have preferred to draft Josh Allen and wait for 2020 or 2021.
And no, I would not want Darnold because he would be in the same tragic situation.
+1 I see no reason why an assessment of DJ keeps automatically becoming a comparison to Eli. Different players, different strengths, different ages and levels of experience. The core problem is the offense, not the QB. That much is clear. Neither has had an opportunity to be successful.