who wants to coach a team bereft of talent, with one above average player on offense (SB) and just one on defense (Lawrence). Doesn't look like a recipe for success.
I think some Giants fans tend to think everyone views this team the way a fan does, which they don’t.
Most top coaches want control over personnel. That is not an option as Giants coach. It is a very good job, but let’s not pretend there are top coaches out there falling asleep at night and dreaming of one day coaching the Giants.
who are the great coaches that we could have attracted the last 10 ` Â
years that we didn't? In 2016, the league was laughing at the Eagles for hiring Pederson. He was the best of that class. When the Steelers hired Tomlin, he was 34. Usually, the big names don't pan out. How has Gruden done in Oakland? It is a crapshoot and you make your best guess. I have no issue with the McAdoo hire, the Shurmur hire I did. There was nothing about his background that screamed he deserved a second chance.
It is a crap shoot, unless a guy like Carroll, Andy Reid or Belichick are sitting at home, you hire a great coordinator and hope for the best. For every Belichick there are 20 retreads that fail.
I don't get is when we fired McAdoo, we seemed to be locked on to only three coaches - none of whom were terribly inspiring options. Why only three? Why those three?
I don't get is when we fired McAdoo, we seemed to be locked on to only three coaches - none of whom were terribly inspiring options. Why only three? Why those three?
That coaching search was doomed from the jump. It never felt right.
giants are a premier coaching destination, then shouldn't we have top guys lobbying to come here? Shouldn't we have to weed out from dozens of applicants?
I believe (IMO) he was told he had to stick with Eli. Wild guess here but maybe any candidates worth their salt disagreed with this and passed.
Now might be different with the new QB and RB in place a better prospect may want to come here.
Whether he was told or not, I think any coach would have known that telling Mara that he couldn't win with Eli would have made his prospects much worse.
I don't get is when we fired McAdoo, we seemed to be locked on to only three coaches - none of whom were terribly inspiring options. Why only three? Why those three?
I doubt that I have no proof but I am willing to bet that Matt Patricia turned us down. If the position was really a prized spot then you should be able to draw more interest and have more options then a lackluster retread like Shurmur.
Need to stop with this holier than thou nonsense and the bullshit about the Giants being “classy” and “premier franchise”.
They need to be forward looking and find a good coach and most likely clean the house in the front office. This franchise needs major changes that have been avoided the past decade.
Need to stop with this holier than thou nonsense and the bullshit about the Giants being “classy” and “premier franchise”.
They need to be forward looking and find a good coach and most likely clean the house in the front office. This franchise needs major changes that have been avoided the past decade.
While the Mara family owns the team, that will not happen. John Mara is much more concerned with looking backward to the way things have always been done than looking forward.
But the last 6+ years has really highlighted the dysfunction in the organization. I’m starting to think young, dynamic coaches may not want to be a part of this franchise.
God forbid, but the organization is really starting to take on Â
nonsense. No, the Giants are not a premier destination and NY is not the center of the sporting universe. You can win almost anywhere in any of the major sports. In the NFL the only must haves are a stable ownership and a franchise QB (either on hand or available via prime draft choice). That can happen in NY or Nashville or Cleveland. Doesn't matter.
I doubt that I have no proof but I am willing to bet that Matt Patricia turned us down. If the position was really a prized spot then you should be able to draw more interest and have more options then a lackluster retread like Shurmur.
+1. It really looked like Patricia turned this team down no matter how it was spun after the fact.
This isn't a kush job by any stretch, the media and by extent, national attention that comes with this job can be brutal. The "mystique and tradition" of this organization have a tendency to be exaggerated by fans. Coaches want to go somewhere that puts them in the best positon to succeed. Maybe there's a geographical or personal connection to the location but the logo on the helmet is largely meaningless.
Of the 32 CURRENTLY employed, how many have been truly good for sustained periods of time? Bellichick, Sean Payton (two the Giants let get away). Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh. Andy Reid--this era's Marty always-a-bridesmaid Schottenheimer. Pete Carroll -- he was fired several times before finally having success in Seattle.
I see no path to acquiring BB, Payton or Tomlin. So who of these other guys do you want badly the next time they're fired?
Everyone else in the pack is a recently promoted coordinator, and frankly, it feels like a coin-flip as to who's better than who. The guys with good players do better than the ones without. Remember how Spags was a genius when he had good players and a clueless bum when he didn't. It's the same thing with the average HCs in the league.
They have the only split family ownership in the NFL. One of the owners is the SR VP of Player Personnel. The owners are as far from progressive as you can get in the NFL. They have a GM who is way past his expiration date, a symptom of the owners lack of vision. They play in a terrible stadium with minimal home field advantage. They have the NY Media to deal with.
No one but Giant fans think there is anything premier about the Giants.
The QB was old, no building blocks. We just fired a coach after 2 years and you wonder why more coaches werent banging down the door? this was and is a bad job right now. the roster was a disaster when Shurmur came in and as we can see its not much better now. If we fire Shurmur we are in a spiral of a coaching carousel and why would anyone want the job? unless they believe DJ is the answer we will not land a great coach.
We're stuck. I think the only thing that the FO can do is make it clear to Shurmur that he is the Head Coach and needs to have someone else call the plays. Clearly he can't be the play caller.
Just because we are in NY doesn't make this a great job. I'm not even sure we are in the top 10 in terms of desirable coaching jobs right now. Lawrence is our only piece on D right now and SB and DJ on O. the rest of this team until proven otherwise are average to below average including EE who obviously cant play in the rain and is injured a lot. I have given DG a lot of credit for his drafts but its looking more and more like we think they are good because they are better than what we had but they still kind of suck.
SB - Enormous talent but a RB at 2 is a steep price
Hernandez - Looked the part as a rookie but year 2 has not improved
Carter - 1 decent game this year and the rest non existent
Hill - Had a better rookie year it seems, hard to tell
Lauletta - cut
RJ macintosh - not enough info
DJ - I think he'll be good but who knows
Lawrence - Looks like a stud
Baker - I'm just not seeing stud CB. maybe he will be good
Xman - shows flashes but again so far not someone to count on
Love - ?
Connelly - Looked good, is that because he is better than what we had or is he a good player?
Slayton - flashed at times
Big George - ?
Slayton - Cut
One thing that's been sobering about the recent coaching searches is how unattractive the Giants job is right now. Also, how shallow the coaching pool is. I always figured whenever Coughlin's tenure ended people would be lining up to coach this team - great history, stable ownership, big market, recent Super Bowls, Eli with a few prime years left. I was expecting a few surprise candidates to throw their hat in ring, like Saban or Payton. I've also held out a glimmer of hope that Belichick will wind up here someday. Instead, we get Shurmur and McAdoo, and interviews with the Mike Smiths of the world and some Belichick yes men. We've already discussed possible candidates going forward and the list leaves a lot to be desired.
this is a threeway power structure:
the Maras - Chris/John (I really, really hope I'm wrong on this one, because they aren't going away.)
the GM - we just hired DG, and I doubt he's going anywhere anytime soon, so let's hope he gets his act together.
the HC
I believe they all get say in acquiring talent, but the coaches input has been diminishing since the days of Coughlin.
This a recipe for dysfunction, especially IF I'm right on the Maras.
the Maras have to be getting desperate for a competitive team after such a long losing stretch. This is what potentially puts the coaching staff on the hotseat.
With a young QB who looks like he has potential, and a young team in need of molding, this could be an attractive spot for coaching candidates, but no more so than other spots.
I don't get is when we fired McAdoo, we seemed to be locked on to only three coaches - none of whom were terribly inspiring options. Why only three? Why those three?
Seems like the league has a pool of coaches they want teams to choose from.If that's the case,I'd like to know whose idea it was.I remember you didn't hear anything about Frank Reich until McDaniels fell through.
guaranteed our defense was going to be sub-optimal for 3-4 years. Trading away all the good players (JPP,OLV,Collins,Snacks, hell even Devon Kennard) guaranteed this shit show.
a HC opportunity with the Giants is simply an annuity investment for that HC.
Like Terps said, unless they change the structure at Jints Central, and move away from the staleness of the "Giants Way", we are merely a training ground...
They have the only split family ownership in the NFL. One of the owners is the SR VP of Player Personnel. The owners are as far from progressive as you can get in the NFL. They have a GM who is way past his expiration date, a symptom of the owners lack of vision. They play in a terrible stadium with minimal home field advantage. They have the NY Media to deal with.
No one but Giant fans think there is anything premier about the Giants.
Sadly I believe this is spot on. Also, its not cheap to live around here. Dollars go alot further in other parts of the country and while I don't see it as a huge factor, I bet it plays a small role with some candidates.
guaranteed our defense was going to be sub-optimal for 3-4 years. Trading away all the good players (JPP,OLV,Collins,Snacks, hell even Devon Kennard) guaranteed this shit show.
First of all the Giants didn't trade Collins, or Kennard. They both left via free agency. Also our defense sucked with those players.
Secondly JPP's cap number was over $15 million, Olivier Vernon (who has a whopping 1 sack this season despite all the attention going to Garrett) $19.5 million dollar cap hit!!!!, Snacks over 9 million (with a bad knee and issues in the locker room). Landon Collins is the same disappointing player he was the previous two seasons only he makes $16 million a year now.
You failed to mention that the Giants will be getting a 3rd round comp pick for losing Collins. If I remember correctly the Giants received a 5th round comp pick for losing Kennard which ended up being Darius Slayton.
Most top coaches want control over personnel. That is not an option as Giants coach. It is a very good job, but let’s not pretend there are top coaches out there falling asleep at night and dreaming of one day coaching the Giants.
It is a crap shoot, unless a guy like Carroll, Andy Reid or Belichick are sitting at home, you hire a great coordinator and hope for the best. For every Belichick there are 20 retreads that fail.
Now might be different with the new QB and RB in place a better prospect may want to come here.
I think the Browns, with Baker coming off a big year and a lot of weapons, was higher.
Packers are higher. You'll get instant success with an established QB like Rodgers.
Jets had Darnold, a ton of cap space, and some really good young pieces on defense like Adams.
I'd probably slot us 4, right around the Broncos and the Cardinals.
Our defense is really bad with almost no big time prospects outside of Lawrence and Baker.
On offense, you have Barkley, Jones, Hernandez... I'm not sure Engram gets a 2nd contract and Shep is a question mark.
Prestige is great, but it's a tough job. We're at least two years away from really making noise.
That coaching search was doomed from the jump. It never felt right.
Now might be different with the new QB and RB in place a better prospect may want to come here.
Whether he was told or not, I think any coach would have known that telling Mara that he couldn't win with Eli would have made his prospects much worse.
Fully agree that this went into the decision.
Previous HC experience after the McAdoo debacle?
They need to be forward looking and find a good coach and most likely clean the house in the front office. This franchise needs major changes that have been avoided the past decade.
They need to be forward looking and find a good coach and most likely clean the house in the front office. This franchise needs major changes that have been avoided the past decade.
While the Mara family owns the team, that will not happen. John Mara is much more concerned with looking backward to the way things have always been done than looking forward.
+1. It really looked like Patricia turned this team down no matter how it was spun after the fact.
This isn't a kush job by any stretch, the media and by extent, national attention that comes with this job can be brutal. The "mystique and tradition" of this organization have a tendency to be exaggerated by fans. Coaches want to go somewhere that puts them in the best positon to succeed. Maybe there's a geographical or personal connection to the location but the logo on the helmet is largely meaningless.
I see no path to acquiring BB, Payton or Tomlin. So who of these other guys do you want badly the next time they're fired?
Everyone else in the pack is a recently promoted coordinator, and frankly, it feels like a coin-flip as to who's better than who. The guys with good players do better than the ones without. Remember how Spags was a genius when he had good players and a clueless bum when he didn't. It's the same thing with the average HCs in the league.
They have the only split family ownership in the NFL. One of the owners is the SR VP of Player Personnel. The owners are as far from progressive as you can get in the NFL. They have a GM who is way past his expiration date, a symptom of the owners lack of vision. They play in a terrible stadium with minimal home field advantage. They have the NY Media to deal with.
No one but Giant fans think there is anything premier about the Giants.
We're stuck. I think the only thing that the FO can do is make it clear to Shurmur that he is the Head Coach and needs to have someone else call the plays. Clearly he can't be the play caller.
Just because we are in NY doesn't make this a great job. I'm not even sure we are in the top 10 in terms of desirable coaching jobs right now. Lawrence is our only piece on D right now and SB and DJ on O. the rest of this team until proven otherwise are average to below average including EE who obviously cant play in the rain and is injured a lot. I have given DG a lot of credit for his drafts but its looking more and more like we think they are good because they are better than what we had but they still kind of suck.
SB - Enormous talent but a RB at 2 is a steep price
Hernandez - Looked the part as a rookie but year 2 has not improved
Carter - 1 decent game this year and the rest non existent
Hill - Had a better rookie year it seems, hard to tell
Lauletta - cut
RJ macintosh - not enough info
DJ - I think he'll be good but who knows
Lawrence - Looks like a stud
Baker - I'm just not seeing stud CB. maybe he will be good
Xman - shows flashes but again so far not someone to count on
Love - ?
Connelly - Looked good, is that because he is better than what we had or is he a good player?
Slayton - flashed at times
Big George - ?
Slayton - Cut
One thing that's been sobering about the recent coaching searches is how unattractive the Giants job is right now. Also, how shallow the coaching pool is. I always figured whenever Coughlin's tenure ended people would be lining up to coach this team - great history, stable ownership, big market, recent Super Bowls, Eli with a few prime years left. I was expecting a few surprise candidates to throw their hat in ring, like Saban or Payton. I've also held out a glimmer of hope that Belichick will wind up here someday. Instead, we get Shurmur and McAdoo, and interviews with the Mike Smiths of the world and some Belichick yes men. We've already discussed possible candidates going forward and the list leaves a lot to be desired.
the Maras - Chris/John (I really, really hope I'm wrong on this one, because they aren't going away.)
the GM - we just hired DG, and I doubt he's going anywhere anytime soon, so let's hope he gets his act together.
the HC
I believe they all get say in acquiring talent, but the coaches input has been diminishing since the days of Coughlin.
This a recipe for dysfunction, especially IF I'm right on the Maras.
the Maras have to be getting desperate for a competitive team after such a long losing stretch. This is what potentially puts the coaching staff on the hotseat.
With a young QB who looks like he has potential, and a young team in need of molding, this could be an attractive spot for coaching candidates, but no more so than other spots.
Seems like the league has a pool of coaches they want teams to choose from.If that's the case,I'd like to know whose idea it was.I remember you didn't hear anything about Frank Reich until McDaniels fell through.
Like Terps said, unless they change the structure at Jints Central, and move away from the staleness of the "Giants Way", we are merely a training ground...
They have the only split family ownership in the NFL. One of the owners is the SR VP of Player Personnel. The owners are as far from progressive as you can get in the NFL. They have a GM who is way past his expiration date, a symptom of the owners lack of vision. They play in a terrible stadium with minimal home field advantage. They have the NY Media to deal with.
No one but Giant fans think there is anything premier about the Giants.
Sadly I believe this is spot on. Also, its not cheap to live around here. Dollars go alot further in other parts of the country and while I don't see it as a huge factor, I bet it plays a small role with some candidates.
Kyle was available in February 2017, just a few weeks after McVay.
Timing was off for sure.
Kyle was available after the following seasons:
2010-2013: Skins
2014: Browns
2015-2016: Falcons
First of all the Giants didn't trade Collins, or Kennard. They both left via free agency. Also our defense sucked with those players.
Secondly JPP's cap number was over $15 million, Olivier Vernon (who has a whopping 1 sack this season despite all the attention going to Garrett) $19.5 million dollar cap hit!!!!, Snacks over 9 million (with a bad knee and issues in the locker room). Landon Collins is the same disappointing player he was the previous two seasons only he makes $16 million a year now.
You failed to mention that the Giants will be getting a 3rd round comp pick for losing Collins. If I remember correctly the Giants received a 5th round comp pick for losing Kennard which ended up being Darius Slayton.
Do you wish you had those players back right now?