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DJ Historical Rookie Perspective

V.I.G. : 10/21/2019 10:31 am
Aikman 9TD, 18INT, 6FMB
Peyton 26/28/3
Eli 6/9/3
Brees 17/16/2
Luck 23/18/10
Carson 18/18/2

Could we please hold off on the conclusions for a year or so.
DJ Has Had His Moments  
lax counsel : 10/21/2019 10:38 am : link
Where he resembles an elite qb. Numbers aside, there are some concerning trends. I would have expected to see some accretive growth in terms of decision making and pocket presence. These are legitimate concerns and repeated errors. Whether he ascends to a top qb will be determined by how well he advances in these areas.
There are absolutely zero concerns  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 10:43 am : link
about DJ going forward. Hes gonna be a very good franchise guy, perhaps even great.

Obviously he needs to clean up the fumbles. Im confident he will will added experience.

Poor examples imo  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/21/2019 10:44 am : link
These QB's today play in much more advanced schemes offensively and defensively. The majority are throwing at least 50% of the time in college and usually quite more.
But..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 10:45 am : link
but, but, there have been QB's who look good as rookies!!

We suck!!!
there are zero concerns??  
LG in NYC : 10/21/2019 10:45 am : link
try watching a game.

I am not pronouncing him a bust, nothing close to that. There is a lot to like... but to say there are ZERO concerns suggests you are not paying attention.
Yes, it's just as absurd to say he's definitely a franchise QB  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 10:46 am : link
as it is to say he definitely won't be.
Jones is one of the main bright spots on the team  
Oscar : 10/21/2019 10:49 am : link
Jones, Lawrence, Hernandez and Saquon are the only guys Im sure will be on the team in two years.

Hes a rookie doing rookie shit. Hes also making some great throws. Go look at Elis rookie numbers, youll want to throw up.

It was said then, it can be modified and used now - Jones will be fine.
RE: there are zero concerns??  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 10:50 am : link
In comment 14638493 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
try watching a game.

I am not pronouncing him a bust, nothing close to that. There is a lot to like... but to say there are ZERO concerns suggests you are not paying attention.


Watched the game several times on GamePass. With experience and awareness he will/should clean things up. Zero concerns about anything else at this point.

RE: Yes, it's just as absurd to say he's definitely a franchise QB  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 10:51 am : link
In comment 14638496 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
as it is to say he definitely won't be.


Is there anything you dont find fault with aside from the 86 Giants? You must be a hoot on the Yankees threads
RE: But..  
ron mexico : 10/21/2019 10:52 am : link
In comment 14638487 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but, but, there have been QB's who look good as rookies!!

We suck!!!


You can't PROVE he will improve. the data in inconclusive either way!

sorry...had to
RE: There are absolutely zero concerns  
gmenatlarge : 10/21/2019 10:53 am : link
In comment 14638484 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
about DJ going forward. Hes gonna be a very good franchise guy, perhaps even great.

Obviously he needs to clean up the fumbles. Im confident he will will added experience.


Zero concerns, then you mention a concern (fumbling). I would add pocket awareness, you have to see a rusher from your right side, no excuse.
Where he needs to improve is the normal trajectory for a rookie QB  
V.I.G. : 10/21/2019 10:55 am : link
Calling and Sliding protections
Better coverage diagnosis Pre snap
Internal clock
3 years.  
Britt in VA : 10/21/2019 10:57 am : link
.
I wanted DJ 1 month before the draft  
kelsto811 : 10/21/2019 10:57 am : link
and I wasn't surprised when he played well. I still was aware that his mistakes were going to be made and I said as much. He holds on to the ball a bit too long which doesn't seem like it can be done with this OL and his pocket presence needs to improve. Unfortunately teams are rushing 4 against this OL and they seem to be getting home nearly every time. That means he doesn't have the best pocket presence, likes to hold on to the ball, but is being forced to throw into double and triple coverage bc the defense can only rush 4.
RE: Where he needs to improve is the normal trajectory for a rookie QB  
Ron Johnson : 10/21/2019 10:58 am : link
In comment 14638534 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
Calling and Sliding protections
Better coverage diagnosis Pre snap
Internal clock


hanging on to the ball wouldn't hurt either
runs both ways  
bluepepper : 10/21/2019 11:00 am : link
after pre-season and one regular season game people were demanding apologies from anyone who had criticized the pick.

It takes time to find out one way or the other. And even when you think you've found out some guys will then regress or dramtically improve.
RE: RE: There are absolutely zero concerns  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 11:02 am : link
In comment 14638525 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14638484 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


about DJ going forward. Hes gonna be a very good franchise guy, perhaps even great.

Obviously he needs to clean up the fumbles. Im confident he will will added experience.




Zero concerns, then you mention a concern (fumbling). I would add pocket awareness, you have to see a rusher from your right side, no excuse.


Re-read what I wrote. You cannot get from that post that I have zero concerns about him in general, but he needs to clean up the fumbling? Obviously, if he never cleans up the fumbling, he will not last in this league. The other stuff? Experience. All that improves with experience. Ive seen what this kid can do after only 5 starts. I see a very good QB for the future. Thats my opinion. That he will have ups and downs in his rookie year has ALWAYS been a given. I have no concerns. Can I be wrong? OF COURSE.
Look, you're the one making the absurd statement here, not me  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 11:03 am : link
Let me respond to your question with one of my own - is there anything the Giants do that you won't wave the poms-poms for?
My concern about DJ is not his ability, its rather or not  
Ben in Tampa : 10/21/2019 11:07 am : link
the Shurmur situation fucks him up permanently. He is going to be a third year QB with a new coach/scheme in 2021 if the Giants dont grow a paid and make a move now.
RE: Look, you're the one making the absurd statement here, not me  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14638563 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Let me respond to your question with one of my own - is there anything the Giants do that you won't wave the poms-poms for?


Yes and Ive listed many of them a myriad of times through the years. I also predicted wed lose to the Cards 31-10, a definite pom pom prediction. I did believe Murray would hurt us more than he did.

Again, Zero concerns at this point, that cant be improved with experience. His fumbling, if its not cleaned up, will become a huge concern..

How Did Darnold do his rookie year with his TOs? He needs to clean things up as well.
He's  
charlito : 10/21/2019 11:09 am : link
Going to be a Great Giant Quarterback. It's standard operating procedure for fans to overreact. I did the same in my early 20's(especially whenever Eli played the Vikings) I brought up Peyton Manning rookie year stats
yesterday. He's going to grow and learn the position this season.
I didn't really want Darnold either, so I'm not sure what he has to do  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 11:11 am : link
with anything.

However, since you brought him up, Jones already has more fumbles in six games than Darnold had in 14 games last season.
RE: But..  
charlito : 10/21/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14638487 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
but, but, there have been QB's who look good as rookies!!

We suck!!!


Yep. Baker Mayfield had a great rookie season. How about this season. 🤷‍♂️
RE: RE: Yes, it's just as absurd to say he's definitely a franchise QB  
Jay on the Island : 10/21/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14638516 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638496 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


as it is to say he definitely won't be.



Is there anything you dont find fault with aside from the 86 Giants? You must be a hoot on the Yankees threads

From what I've seen , when it comes to the Yankees Greg is usually always positive if you can believe it or not. He has no issue trolling Mets or Braves threads but complains about people bitching on Yankees threads.
RE: RE: RE: There are absolutely zero concerns  
gmenatlarge : 10/21/2019 11:13 am : link
In comment 14638560 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14638525 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


In comment 14638484 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


about DJ going forward. Hes gonna be a very good franchise guy, perhaps even great.

Obviously he needs to clean up the fumbles. Im confident he will will added experience.




Zero concerns, then you mention a concern (fumbling). I would add pocket awareness, you have to see a rusher from your right side, no excuse.



Re-read what I wrote. You cannot get from that post that I have zero concerns about him in general, but he needs to clean up the fumbling? Obviously, if he never cleans up the fumbling, he will not last in this league. The other stuff? Experience. All that improves with experience. Ive seen what this kid can do after only 5 starts. I see a very good QB for the future. Thats my opinion. That he will have ups and downs in his rookie year has ALWAYS been a given. I have no concerns. Can I be wrong? OF COURSE.


contradict yourself much?
Pretty select group  
gmenatlarge : 10/21/2019 11:16 am : link
you are comparing him to, plenty of bad QBs had poor rookie seasons also. Anyway the jury is still out on Mr. Jones, plenty of good along with the bad, time will tell.
RE: I didn't really want Darnold either, so I'm not sure what he has to do  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14638589 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
with anything.

However, since you brought him up, Jones already has more fumbles in six games than Darnold had in 14 games last season.


My point about Darnold was more about patience with the growing pains. Not everyone can take the league by storm very, very early as Marino and Mahomes did and have done.
I *am* being patient  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 11:19 am : link
I'm not passing any judgments on him right now, not when he struggles nor when he looks good. That's why, again, I think it's silly to say either that he's definitely going to be good or definitely not going to be good.

He was far from my first choice, but they rolled the dice on him so we'll see what he does over the next couple of years.
BB56 shared his opinion  
Jay on the Island : 10/21/2019 11:19 am : link
that he thinks Jones is going to be a franchise QB. Did he guarantee it? No he didn't, he was said that he has zero concerns that Jones will fix his fumbling issue.

It's almost as if Daniel Jones is a 22 year old rookie QB playing with a poor offensive line/defense, and injuries to most of his weapons.
RE: RE: RE: RE: There are absolutely zero concerns  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 11:19 am : link
In comment 14638604 gmenatlarge said:
Quote:
In comment 14638560 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


In comment 14638525 gmenatlarge said:


Quote:


In comment 14638484 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


about DJ going forward. Hes gonna be a very good franchise guy, perhaps even great.

Obviously he needs to clean up the fumbles. Im confident he will will added experience.




Zero concerns, then you mention a concern (fumbling). I would add pocket awareness, you have to see a rusher from your right side, no excuse.



Re-read what I wrote. You cannot get from that post that I have zero concerns about him in general, but he needs to clean up the fumbling? Obviously, if he never cleans up the fumbling, he will not last in this league. The other stuff? Experience. All that improves with experience. Ive seen what this kid can do after only 5 starts. I see a very good QB for the future. Thats my opinion. That he will have ups and downs in his rookie year has ALWAYS been a given. I have no concerns. Can I be wrong? OF COURSE.



contradict yourself much?


What TF are you talking about? Because perhaps I wasnt as clear or misstated my initial post, you harp on that? I though I made it quite clear in subsequent posts. I should have said I have zero concerns about DJs future other than his fumbling, IF IT CONTINUES. I amended it.

Give the rookie some slack  
WideRight : 10/21/2019 11:22 am : link
The learning curve has to be respected.

Yesterday, DJ was matched up against a formible D, and opposed by an offense with an elite QB. Expecting anymore from than a rookie-caliber performance in that situation isn't realistic.
RE: I *am* being patient  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14638624 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
I'm not passing any judgments on him right now, not when he struggles nor when he looks good. That's why, again, I think it's silly to say either that he's definitely going to be good or definitely not going to be good.

He was far from my first choice, but they rolled the dice on him so we'll see what he does over the next couple of years.


Greg, in fairness, no one REALLY knows at this point. As with most on here, Im simply projecting an opinion that believes DJ is going to be a very good (possibly great) franchise QB for us. Do I know for sure? Of course not. He could turn out to be mediocre. I just believe hes gonna be solid. No certainties or guarantees.
RE: BB56 shared his opinion  
Greg from LI : 10/21/2019 11:24 am : link
In comment 14638625 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
that he thinks Jones is going to be a franchise QB. Did he guarantee it? No he didn't, he was said that he has zero concerns that Jones will fix his fumbling issue.

It's almost as if Daniel Jones is a 22 year old rookie QB playing with a poor offensive line/defense, and injuries to most of his weapons.



And that's fine. Those are perfectly legitimate excuses for when he plays poorly, and I've said the same thing myself. Repeatedly, as a matter of fact - he's facing some strong headwinds with a terrible OL and weak WRs (injuries have little to do with it, the Giants simply have a really unimpressive group of receivers).

The fact that all of that is true, however, doesn't translate to "Jones has actually been playing great".
I agree about needing to hold off a bit  
Beezer : 10/21/2019 11:27 am : link
on overall conclusions. But that seems like a logical thing we ought to do with any player, any team, any sport. Of course, an absence of logic is in play with man.

Daniel Jones has had some very big obstacles since starting his first game. They've changed a bit here and there, but he's had several. So, he's failed a fair amount of the time.

That said, he's looked very, very good at times. More polished than nearly any other pocket-based QB (compared to "the running guys") not named Mahomes over the past handful of years. I think Darnold has had very similar early returns. I believe they'll both be very big deals in NYC for the next decade or more.

Who knows if that's correct? But like 56, I think with experience and the chance to clean up some things, Jones is going to be a really good one for a long time in blue.
RE: I agree about needing to hold off a bit  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14638652 Beezer said:
Quote:
on overall conclusions. But that seems like a logical thing we ought to do with any player, any team, any sport. Of course, an absence of logic is in play with man.

Daniel Jones has had some very big obstacles since starting his first game. They've changed a bit here and there, but he's had several. So, he's failed a fair amount of the time.

That said, he's looked very, very good at times. More polished than nearly any other pocket-based QB (compared to "the running guys") not named Mahomes over the past handful of years. I think Darnold has had very similar early returns. I believe they'll both be very big deals in NYC for the next decade or more.

Who knows if that's correct? But like 56, I think with experience and the chance to clean up some things, Jones is going to be a really good one for a long time in blue.


And yet, we have little friggin idea if we are correct on the absolutes of that. We simply believe he will be.
Right.  
Beezer : 10/21/2019 11:32 am : link
But you know ... it's just a feel thing. Could be right, could be wrong. But many of us, while not experts at all, have seen a lot of football. Daniel Jones has the look (on all levels) of a guy who's going to be very good, and pretty soon.
That's totally legit data  
Dnew15 : 10/21/2019 11:34 am : link
to take into consideration.
Let's also consider the fact that the teams that Eli and Peyton and some of those other guys inherited were equally bad as the 2019 Giants.

The Giants do suck - that's a fact, but it's also not definitive to say they will suck in the future either.

RE: Right.  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 11:36 am : link
In comment 14638666 Beezer said:
Quote:
But you know ... it's just a feel thing. Could be right, could be wrong. But many of us, while not experts at all, have seen a lot of football. Daniel Jones has the look (on all levels) of a guy who's going to be very good, and pretty soon.


Totally agree about that look, Fwiw..
it was a lot harder to play QB when Aikman was a rookie  
Shirk130 : 10/21/2019 11:39 am : link
and even when Eli first came into the league than it is now. It's not a fair comparison. Why not compare him to the guys who came in to the league over the past few years instead, there are plenty of options.
Fumblers will Fumble  
GiantEgo : 10/21/2019 11:42 am : link
I don't think one can underestimate how serious this is. As Parcells said there is nothing more damaging to a team than a player who fumbles.
RE: it was a lot harder to play QB when Aikman was a rookie  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 11:44 am : link
In comment 14638693 Shirk130 said:
Quote:
and even when Eli first came into the league than it is now. It's not a fair comparison. Why not compare him to the guys who came in to the league over the past few years instead, there are plenty of options.


And a lot of those options still are inconclusive. You just can't look at a QB early on with success or failure and make an accurate prediction. Mark Sanchez went to two AFC championship games. Rookie years, a lot of people talked about Mariota and Winston having the goods.

Goff has been up and down. wentz can't stay healthy and has looked pedestrian this year. None of last year's QB's look great. But you can't say those guys will fail 2 years in. Or even 3-4 years in for some cases.
The eye test gives a couple of pro's and con's  
aimrocky : 10/21/2019 11:44 am : link
DJ's touch and accuracy is there. The zip is a little bit lacking, although he has enough to get the job done. He holds onto the ball way too long, and holds it low enough for an easy strip. I think the foundation is there, he just needs more experience to clean it up.
RE: The eye test gives a couple of pro's and con's  
WideRight : 10/21/2019 12:15 pm : link
In comment 14638715 aimrocky said:
Quote:
DJ's touch and accuracy is there. The zip is a little bit lacking, although he has enough to get the job done. He holds onto the ball way too long, and holds it low enough for an easy strip. I think the foundation is there, he just needs more experience to clean it up.


It will takes time. Murray has played two more games than DJ and it showed. And DJs QBR is already higher than Gardner Minshew's, 52 to 41
Well one good thing about this week  
gmenatlarge : 10/21/2019 1:03 pm : link
You dont hear the stupid Danny Dimes nickname, truly dreadful.
RE: Fumblers will Fumble  
Dnew15 : 10/21/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14638700 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
I don't think one can underestimate how serious this is. As Parcells said there is nothing more damaging to a team than a player who fumbles.


Tiki fixed it.
RE: RE: it was a lot harder to play QB when Aikman was a rookie  
Jay on the Island : 10/21/2019 6:33 pm : link
In comment 14638713 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 14638693 Shirk130 said:


Quote:


and even when Eli first came into the league than it is now. It's not a fair comparison. Why not compare him to the guys who came in to the league over the past few years instead, there are plenty of options.



And a lot of those options still are inconclusive. You just can't look at a QB early on with success or failure and make an accurate prediction. Mark Sanchez went to two AFC championship games. Rookie years, a lot of people talked about Mariota and Winston having the goods.

Goff has been up and down. wentz can't stay healthy and has looked pedestrian this year. None of last year's QB's look great. But you can't say those guys will fail 2 years in. Or even 3-4 years in for some cases.


Goff was atrocious during his rookie season but he took a big step forward in his second season. He was excellent up until this year after he was rewarded with a massive contract.

Mitchell Trubisky played poorly year one, improved significantly year two, and has been playing very poorly this season when healthy.

RG3 took the NFL by storm during his rookie season. We all know the rest.

RE: Yes, it's just as absurd to say he's definitely a franchise QB  
micky : 10/21/2019 6:35 pm : link
In comment 14638496 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
as it is to say he definitely won't be.


Agree
DJ is much better than fine  
5BowlsSoon : 10/21/2019 9:59 pm : link
I see so many GREAT things in DJ......

Anyone who disses him really is making a fool of themselves because all you have to do is look at great nfl qbs rookie years and compare. I doubt you will see DJ so much inferior. And dont forget, DJ has Played behind a crappy OL, no great healthy or non suspended WR/TE or a healthy RB.

Yes, he has fumbled the ball when getting creamed from any which way, but Im sure he will learn how to hold on when getting hit. He certainly will get enough practice at it this season. So, we can all agree, this is something he needs to work on. So lets move on.

After watching Darnold in the first half against NE, did he do any better than Danny? Lets see, 2 interceptions, 1 fumble, and no points. And he is not even a rookie.

Bottom line....I hate to sound condescending here, but if you diss DJ apart from the fumbles when getting blasted, you dont know football and you really should keep your thoughts to yourselves so you dont across as an idiot. DJ has shown us with all these handicaps he has been dealt with that he is a precious gem....we should all be grateful we have him. Now lets surround him with better players.

Cheers....
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