I'll be honest, I wanted Patricia like a lot of people. Bill Belichick, I guess? I rolled my eyes like a 7 year old who didn't get his way when I found out Shurmur was going to be the HC. I think I had the same reaction when McAdoo was hired. I was more annoyed Coughlin was let go for him but yet Reese stuck around?
Who did you want for HC of the NY football Giants the day the music died... or Big Macs keycard stopped working?
But I do find myself defending PS from time to time. Yesterday's performance is making it harder and harder to do so.
Nobody wants a Browns retread. I really don't want a BB assistant, either.
Who we want is completely irrelevant to if the guy will do a good job. A lot of people on BBI would've taken Spags in a heartbeat as a HC.
He has made some headscratching HC decisions so far. That’s troubling
I thought chalking up his bad record to "just Cleveland" was dangerous. He was totally uninspiring.
Just for the record I wanted Wilks who is already out of his HC gig, but who really knows after Arizona's track record the last 2 years.
for me it was Wilks or Patricia with Norv as OC. That was what I wanted in Jan 2018.
That said, I've seen enough. I no longer have confidence that he is right for this job.
Play calling and game management clearly are areas that need improvement. It may be that the "character" aspect is wearing thin as a means of holding the team together. At this point the NYG may need an injection of a Col Tom or Big Tuna attitude.
(I'm also hanging in with Bettcher for a while.)
Tom Coughlin was always going to be hard to replace.
He turned out ok.
Tom Coughlin was always going to be hard to replace.
This x100
I said, we're fucked.
Tom Coughlin was always going to be hard to replace.
That's what I'm getting at here, all I remember during that time of misery in early 2018 was Patricia and Shurmur.
I don't remember much else.
I'd still like him to turn it around and be the guy.... but I've kinda lost faith at this point.
Tom Coughlin was always going to be hard to replace.
He was replacing McAdoo.
I know. 2-3-1 seems like heaven on earth, plus they play in a tough division this year. Even though I'm not too crazy over Dallas and Philly this year, they're still way ahead of the Giants.
Well he plays in the NFC North and got absolutely hosed in the Packers game. This Lions team is going to finish very strong, book it. They have a get right game next week.
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what were the alternatives?
Tom Coughlin was always going to be hard to replace.
He was replacing McAdoo.
I understand that. But we are still looking. Tom Coughlin was the last real head coach we had in here, and honestly, I think it's becoming clearer that he wasn't the real problem with what was going on. Tom Coughlin with a little off his fastball is still better than most guys we will get to replace him. But I don't want to trigger Greg with that and get into an argument. That's just my opinion.
If Cower wants to come out retirement or Saban wants another shot at the NFL or if the pipe dream of luring BB away from the Pats were to be options - then sure - fire PS.
But firing PS and expecting some johnny come lately, hot shot college coach that has some level of success in bring SW Alabama Tech to the Rice Roni bowl to come in turn this program around is just setting the process back - again.
If Cower wants to come out retirement or Saban wants another shot at the NFL or if the pipe dream of luring BB away from the Pats were to be options - then sure - fire PS.
But firing PS and expecting some johnny come lately, hot shot college coach that has some level of success in bring SW Alabama Tech to the Rice Roni bowl to come in turn this program around is just setting the process back - again.
Definitely a terrible idea firing a head coach without an exit strategy like Reese and Mcadoo. Accorssi played it like a champ firing Fassell with Coughlin waiting in the wings.
Frankly, there really weren't any outstanding candidates at the time...
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In comment 14638728 Britt in VA said:
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what were the alternatives?
Tom Coughlin was always going to be hard to replace.
He was replacing McAdoo.
I understand that. But we are still looking. Tom Coughlin was the last real head coach we had in here, and honestly, I think it's becoming clearer that he wasn't the real problem with what was going on. Tom Coughlin with a little off his fastball is still better than most guys we will get to replace him. But I don't want to trigger Greg with that and get into an argument. That's just my opinion.
Coughlin was batting around .500 with shit rosters, I'll take that anyday.
One point I noted was that Belichick also failed as Browns HC, so I was not going to hold that against Shurmur.
Mike Smith was Redskins Fassell level bottom of the barell. Even Hue Jackson told Reese and Mara/Tisch to fuckoff I prefer Cleveland.
If Cower wants to come out retirement or Saban wants another shot at the NFL or if the pipe dream of luring BB away from the Pats were to be options - then sure - fire PS.
But firing PS and expecting some johnny come lately, hot shot college coach that has some level of success in bring SW Alabama Tech to the Rice Roni bowl to come in turn this program around is just setting the process back - again.
Good post. Barring catastrophe, and despite the tone of the board we aren't there yet, they should ride it out with Shurmur another year. I've seen this movie before where we scapegoat one guy and then move on to the next guy after that doesn't work out with our entire FO having either one foot in or out the door at all times. We'd be perpetuating the cycle that got us here. Shurmur needs to get better though and he needs to start delegating some responsibilities for that to happen. He doesn't have it and he'll never have it when it comes to his decision making in criticual situations. As an organization, you can help him there though.
The best plan is to hold Shurmur and DG equally accountable and give them their 3 years.
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after 2 years of coaching a team that has zero talent - including a year hamstrung by a QB well past his prime...it's got to be for someone that's a slam dunk.
If Cower wants to come out retirement or Saban wants another shot at the NFL or if the pipe dream of luring BB away from the Pats were to be options - then sure - fire PS.
But firing PS and expecting some johnny come lately, hot shot college coach that has some level of success in bring SW Alabama Tech to the Rice Roni bowl to come in turn this program around is just setting the process back - again.
Good post. Barring catastrophe, and despite the tone of the board we aren't there yet, they should ride it out with Shurmur another year. I've seen this movie before where we scapegoat one guy and then move on to the next guy after that doesn't work out with our entire FO having either one foot in or out the door at all times. We'd be perpetuating the cycle that got us here. Shurmur needs to get better though and he needs to start delegating some responsibilities for that to happen. He doesn't have it and he'll never have it when it comes to his decision making in criticual situations. As an organization, you can help him there though.
The best plan is to hold Shurmur and DG equally accountable and give them their 3 years.
I actually agree with this, despite my vote of no confidence in Shurmur.
I view Gettleman as a separate issue and I'm not as down on him as most.
I think more than anything is that our players just suck and they make an average coach look bad. When we won our Superbowls we had players on the team that were the best at their positions or close to it. Right now we have Barkley and thats it. I can't say that we have a HOF type player on O or D or even a top 5 player at any position besides SB. Coaches can only do so much, at some point you need players.
I'll agree that Shurmor is not a great coach but look at what he is working with.
Second choice: Patricia
Will be: shurmur
Didn’t day he was great, being better than shurmur isn’t a high bar
I actually find Betcher an interesting choice for HC. Seems to fix his mistakes, on paper has huge obvious gaps in personnel, meanwhile Shemur can't do shit with two 1000 yard receivers, a 4.4 TE, a HoF RB, and on paper solid OL.
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after 2 years of coaching a team that has zero talent - including a year hamstrung by a QB well past his prime...it's got to be for someone that's a slam dunk.
If Cower wants to come out retirement or Saban wants another shot at the NFL or if the pipe dream of luring BB away from the Pats were to be options - then sure - fire PS.
But firing PS and expecting some johnny come lately, hot shot college coach that has some level of success in bring SW Alabama Tech to the Rice Roni bowl to come in turn this program around is just setting the process back - again.
Good post. Barring catastrophe, and despite the tone of the board we aren't there yet, they should ride it out with Shurmur another year. I've seen this movie before where we scapegoat one guy and then move on to the next guy after that doesn't work out with our entire FO having either one foot in or out the door at all times. We'd be perpetuating the cycle that got us here. Shurmur needs to get better though and he needs to start delegating some responsibilities for that to happen. He doesn't have it and he'll never have it when it comes to his decision making in criticual situations. As an organization, you can help him there though.
The best plan is to hold Shurmur and DG equally accountable and give them their 3 years.
I would also agree. Give both PS and DG three years and if they are still not able to field a competitive team get rid of both and gut the front office including Chris Mara.
We don't need any more half measures
The head coach has replaced the quarterback as the face of the franchise in the modern NFL. The next head coach should be the leader of a top down organizational structure.
Unfortunately, the Giants don't operate that way. They prefer a committee.
PS is Norv Turner 2.0. Good OC, horrible HC
If he wants to hold onto his job, it's probably time he is told to turn over either play calling duties or game management to someone else. He has demonstrated he can't do both at the same time.
He is here for his offensive genius, so is there a way to put someone in his ear telling him when to use timeouts, when to go on fourth and when to punt? Seems embarrassing that an NFL coach struggles with those decisions.
You guys are hysterical if "you think, I think" I have this outlandish sneaking suspicion the Giants management checks out with BBI before making their moves.
Who cares? BBI, I'm guessing. That's why I posted this thread about BBI on ... BBI.