NFT: Knicks Chat: Picking up options (Frank/Knox/DSJ)

Good to see anyway. Excited for a distraction from the Giants. The Knicks will likely suck but that’s normal. Will still be fun to watch the young guys.

a Frank guy and still iffy on Knox and DSJ but at least they have young talent that potentially could develop. Really hope Fizdale works to get these guys headed in the right direction and not simply saving his job.

Makes sense purely from the perspective of plenty of cap space available next year via other means and no one of note scheduled to be an UFA (assuming Davis stays with LAL).

Curious to see their development, Frank in particular if Barrett plays more of a point role. His defense/lack of needing the ball is a good compliment but he needs to hit a minimum acceptable level of 3s (35%+)

see Barrett as a Jalen Rose type. No downside to letting him learn to run the offense. Will be eaten alive guarding top 1's however.

In comment 14639019 DanMetroMan said:

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see Barrett as a Jalen Rose type. No downside to letting him learn to run the offense. Will be eaten alive guarding top 1's however.

He's played the 3, 2 and 1 in preseason. Will be interesting to see how he's used in the real games.

For that matter, the whole rotation will be interesting to see since I don't think anyone but Fiz knows what it's going to be. Over on Ultimate Knicks people are trying to guess the starting lineup and rotation, and the guesses are all over the place.

with the second unit, not necassarily playing point..

I think eventually to close games we will see 2 man game between him and randle

In comment 14639019 DanMetroMan said:

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see Barrett as a Jalen Rose type. No downside to letting him learn to run the offense. Will be eaten alive guarding top 1's however.

Frank is the only person in this roster that can effectively defend good 1s and quick guards. It's going to be a problem all year i fear.

Is what’s it been for years. We don’t have a coach who knows how to defend the pick and roll, and no outside shooting. In my opinion this will be our demise once again.

In comment 14639041 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 14639019 DanMetroMan said: Quote: see Barrett as a Jalen Rose type. No downside to letting him learn to run the offense. Will be eaten alive guarding top 1's however. Frank is the only person in this roster that can effectively defend good 1s and quick guards. It's going to be a problem all year i fear.

I know Frank doesn't get a lot of love here and it's true that he's not a scorer at this point, but I think he's the best of the three at PG right now. Smith has looked terrible (I know he's probably rusty, but still) and Payton hasn't looked great either. With Frank at least you get good D and the ball seems to move better.

All hope may not be lost when it comes to Frank, he may be a nice NBA roll player before he is done.

Not a scorer but defender who can also set up his offensive team.

After watching pre-season (and idk if these signings means they are easier to trade), it seemed to me DSJ is like 1/2 a player and Frank is 1/2 a player, can we trade both of them for a complete player?

I want to like Frank, I know he did great over-seas this summer, but man, it's like he almost NEEDS to be traded to get that "chip" on his shoulder. (He'd be like, HA, Knicks didn't want me, but I'm gonna ball out for Orlando!)

I know DSJ barely broke a sweat in pre-season (w/fouls etc.) but I feel like we just need a good distributor/defender (hopefully it is Payton)

Payton / Frank?
Barrett / Trier (who can run point & score like DSJ?)
then there's still Dotson & Ellington to play the 2

I thought Fiz was showcasing DSJ & Frank to trade them lol

And be given 20 games minimum to start and deal with the lumps. This can’t be a constant rotation of PGs every other game. And there can’t be quick hooks if there is one bad game. Every team has players who have roles, if frank plays a game where he is in foul trouble all game and ends up playing 9 total mins and in that same game Payton scores 20 pts and has 5 assists, doesn’t mean Payton should start the next game. You need to start Frank the next game and let him go for an extended period of time.

Honestly I don’t even want to play Payton, let these 2 young guys play all the PG this year and next year. Her is my starting 5, I know morris will start, but I just think we are better off having knox in this line up and having Morris play the 4 off the bench with trier, Smith jr and portis.

PG - Frank
SG - Barrett
SF - Knox
PF - Randle
C - Robinson

Bench
Morris
Trier
Smith jr
Portis
Ellington

Pretty said that we have to overpay a mediocre player like Payton AND promise him a starter's role, but such is life for us right now. Keep grinding away at it.

In comment 14639123 bceagle05 said:

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Pretty said that we have to overpay a mediocre player like Payton AND promise him a starter's role, but such is life for us right now. Keep grinding away at it.

it is from berman take with a grain of salt

smith, barrett, morris, randle and mitch are going to be your starters.

Bench Frank, ellington, knox, portis and gibson with payton sprinkled in.

Frank is going to be used as a utility guy, lockdown defender..

In comment 14639123 bceagle05 said:

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Pretty said that we have to overpay a mediocre player like Payton AND promise him a starter's role, but such is life for us right now. Keep grinding away at it.

I think I heard that too. So I'll guess the starters are:

Mitch
Randle
Morris
RJB
Payton

and the second team is:

Taj
Portis
Knox
Ellington
Frank

with DSJ, Trier, Iggy, Dotson and Bullock (hurt) on the outside looking in for now.

I'm probably wrong, of course. And Fiz may do different things in different games.

And he has played the hardest all preseason of the PG’s. Only problem is with him and Barrett neither can shoot. You can’t have 2 guards on the floor like that (unless it’s matchup trying to get a defensive stop). Next time we draft please please please get a shooter. Knox, RJ and Frank all picks with potential who can’t shoot. Jesus.

In comment 14639170 Carl in CT said:

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And he has played the hardest all preseason of the PG’s. Only problem is with him and Barrett neither can shoot. You can’t have 2 guards on the floor like that (unless it’s matchup trying to get a defensive stop). Next time we draft please please please get a shooter. Knox, RJ and Frank all picks with potential who can’t shoot. Jesus.

Knox will be much better from 3 this year, shot 36% in preseasin from 3..

Morris shot 39% last year.

Randle 36% from 3

Portis 40% from 3

Ellington is a very good 3 point shooter..

Smith, Frank or Barrett just have to improve and i dont think shooting will kill them

Might as well cut him and claim someone off waivers like McKinnie

But what are peoples obsession with other teams castoff scrubs? Everytime someone is cut someone has to post that their team should pick them up...I dont get it

I think cause some of others cast offs are better than our 8-15 listed players. We have more depth this year but in the past it was true (IE Kurt Thomas) but I don’t want to answer for Anak but I feel same way.

In comment 14639205 nygiants16 said:

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But what are peoples obsession with other teams castoff scrubs? Everytime someone is cut someone has to post that their team should pick them up...I dont get it

We're #1 on the waiver wire. We should put that to good use

In comment 14639145 nygiants16 said:

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smith, barrett, morris, randle and mitch are going to be your starters. Bench Frank, ellington, knox, portis and gibson with payton sprinkled in. Frank is going to be used as a utility guy, lockdown defender..

Fizdale will have to earn his paycheck this year. So many vets to try and keep happy, and kids to get playing time and try and develop. Not to mention trying to figure out who can play together. For instance I don't see Robinson and Randle working well together. Robinson clogs the lane and can't pull a defender away from the basket. Things will bog down for Randle with him in the game, and Randle is the #1 option.

I'm not a salary cap expert but if we cut Bullock, who's injured at the moment, don't we have to keep his salary on the books, at least in substantial part?

If that's the case, it's not realistic to say just cut him and sign someone else because the cap may not allow it.

If I'm wrong about this, feel free to correct.

This team is not going to be a great shooting team. I wonder if we are going to regret not picking garland over Barrett. If garland did not get hurt last year so early in his college season. He would have gone 2nd or 3rd to knicks on the draft. Guy is an incredible shooter, shot creator and passer for such a young age.

In comment 14639242 Ron Johnson said:

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For instance I don't see Robinson and Randle working well together. Robinson clogs the lane and can't pull a defender away from the basket. Things will bog down for Randle with him in the game, and Randle is the #1 option.

I think this is a valid question. It's possible that Mitch plays on the second unit because Randle is definitely on the first unit. That would leave Portis or Gibson playing the 5 as the starter.

Don’t know how they celts can pay him, Kemba and the infamous Utah Jazz man over $90m just for the 3 of them. Wow.

Randle/Portis is horrific defensively. Taj is probably too old to log starter minutes. Mitch was the organization's golden boy last year - it would be quite a statement if he's benched in favor of guys like Portis or Gibson.

but they are firmly in no man's land. As much as the Nets success may be frustrating, I find it hilarious that Brooklyn is building a better team than the Celtics, after the Celtics fleeced them on the KG/Pierce trade. That's an indictment of Saint Danny Ainge and a great job by Marks/Atkinson.

In comment 14639019 DanMetroMan said:

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see Barrett as a Jalen Rose type. No downside to letting him learn to run the offense. Will be eaten alive guarding top 1's however.

Which is why you play frank with RJ. Problem solved and live with the suspect outside shooting.

torn meniscus, but i thought there was nothing structually wrong with his knee?

the reaction if the Knicks drafted him and he was on the shelf before game one? We'd all be melting down, and rightfully so. That's a scary situation.

In comment 14639392 bceagle05 said:

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the reaction if the Knicks drafted him and he was on the shelf before game one? We'd all be melting down, and rightfully so. That's a scary situation.

and somehow it will be the knicks fault

@knicks pick situation is fine but crazy to think they owe likely very high 2nd round picks to the Sixers or Boston AND an additional pick to the Sixers #Knicks

In comment 14639420 DanMetroMan said:

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@knicks pick situation is fine but crazy to think they owe likely very high 2nd round picks to the Sixers or Boston AND an additional pick to the Sixers #Knicks

True, but we still have at least one 2nd round pick each year, correct? Maybe not as high.

Knicks' pick situation going forward - ( New Window )

I can't imagine why else they would pick up that option.

Bad news about Zion.

In comment 14639428 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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I can't imagine why else they would pick up that option. Bad news about Zion.

He is your starting point guard, it would be stupid not to pick up his option

In comment 14639431 nygiants16 said:

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He is your starting point guard, it would be stupid not to pick up his option

Out of necessity. He hasn't earned the position or played that well in this league.

In comment 14639427 Del Shofner said:

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In comment 14639420 DanMetroMan said: Quote: @knicks pick situation is fine but crazy to think they owe likely very high 2nd round picks to the Sixers or Boston AND an additional pick to the Sixers #Knicks True, but we still have at least one 2nd round pick each year, correct? Maybe not as high. Knicks' pick situation going forward - ( New Window )

They do. But instead of being likely extremely high picks headed to title contenders it's what should be a high pick from Charlotte this year, likely a mediocre 1st from Dallas next year, well see what Charlotte looks like in 2021 and protected 2023 from Dallas. The 2nd this year is basically a wash vs. a bonus.

In comment 14639432 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 14639431 nygiants16 said: Quote: He is your starting point guard, it would be stupid not to pick up his option Out of necessity. He hasn't earned the position or played that well in this league.

he iss 22 years old and was 15 3 and 5 his rookie year..

He can play in the nba, the question is if he can put it all together

In comment 14639420 DanMetroMan said:

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@knicks pick situation is fine but crazy to think they owe likely very high 2nd round picks to the Sixers or Boston AND an additional pick to the Sixers #Knicks

Phil's ineptness will continue to haunt this team for quite some time.

In terms of moving the ball and integrated playmaking unless Barrett does it.

Sucks that Iggy isn't playing well yet, bc if he can shoot 3s and play d aaand position himself well.on the floor, his rep? from (the 4 ? I don't follow bball) that's a useful role player piece.

Nili
Dotson
Barrett
Iggy
Randle

You get 3 pointers , you get D and in Barrett and Randle you get scoring threats ...inside outside and balance

Nili move ball, d , feed Barrett and
Randle (+3s?)
Dotson 3 + D and a pro
Barrett (playmaking scoring)
Iggy (if he gets going _ 3+D + moves
himself in a system)
Randle (playmaker)

Chris Paul
Terence Ferguson
Hamidou Diallo
Two first round picks

Noah’s contract
Dennis Smith
Marcus Morris
Julius Randle
Wayne Ellington

Then take a first round pick plus Elfrid Payton and trade for Mo Bamba and Mozgovs Contract

In the interim if Jaylen Brown isn’t signed send two first rounders to Boston along with a contract that matches


Robinson
Knox
Brown
Barrett
Paul

Bomba
Portis
Ferguson
Diallo
Ntilikina

Very nice long defensive team and youth to develop and an experienced point guard to lead them

Thoughts ? I want the GM position. Lol

we can spin a few of these guys to contenders later in the year for future draft picks.

In comment 14640667 TommyWiseau said:

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we can spin a few of these guys to contenders later in the year for future draft picks.

they will be lucky to spin off one of them for a future pick of any value, let alone a few.