in hindsight would you prefer this outcome of 2018/19 drafts

Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Josh Allen is greater than Barkley and Jones.

.

Lamar Jackson...they don't like to think outside the box.

They prefer pocket passers.

why don't we let this play out for a few seasons before we get cute with the hypotheticals?

In comment 14639097 Anakim said:

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.

i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind.

In comment 14639100 Jints in Carolina said:

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Lamar Jackson...they don't like to think outside the box. They prefer pocket passers.

True...

In comment 14639102 AndyMilligan said:

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In comment 14639097 Anakim said: Quote: . i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind.

I disagree. Saquon is still the best player from that 2018 Draft. I did, however have Lamar Jackson as my #2 QB in that Draft behind Baker Mayfield so I wouldn't have minded at all if we ended up with Jackson. Not over Saquon, but like trading back into the first round to take him.

he was an incredible talent with the ball but had zero polish as a QB... Hes been coached up by Harbaugh who deserves credit for getting him where he is today, and building a team around him. The comparison is apples and cumquats because it appears Shurmur is clueless as a head coach.

Jones this year + those 3 1s = a better team

High draft capital "Generational RBs" can't win by themselves.
Believed it then
Believe it now

You Honor, the defense would like to enter into evidence, the entire fukking history of the NFL

In comment 14639104 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 14639102 AndyMilligan said: Quote: In comment 14639097 Anakim said: Quote: . i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind. I disagree. Saquon is still the best player from that 2018 Draft. I did, however have Lamar Jackson as my #2 QB in that Draft behind Baker Mayfield so I wouldn't have minded at all if we ended up with Jackson. Not over Saquon, but like trading back into the first round to take him.

I respectfully disagree. I love SB but I worry he is not the type of back that will have sustained success in the NFL unlike Nick Chubb and Zeke. He is more athletically gifted than those guys, though those guys are fabulous specimens too, but they seem to be more effective between the tackles and that's not really SB's strength.

But I think right now I would conclude Lamar is the biggest difference maker out of that draft. His performance yesterday was unreal. He took apart Seattle with his running ability.

In comment 14639126 V.I.G. said:

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Jones this year + those 3 1s = a better team High draft capital "Generational RBs" can't win by themselves. Believed it then Believe it now You Honor, the defense would like to enter into evidence, the entire fukking history of the NFL

i agree about not spending such a high pick on a RB, especially when you can get Chubb for a low first.

the Giants roster is shitty. the talent on the Giants right now is just terrible. We are so accustomed to seeing bad football players that average players looked all pros in preseason. then the games started and we are seeing that they are not good players. I do think that DJ has a chance to be good, but the talent around him is nowhere near playoff caliber.

If Jackson was here he would probably look terrible with this supporting cast too.

I was Duped!

.

You can literally take any Giants draft ever, wait 2 years, and then make a thread like this. I love Barkley and Jones. If we could predict the future, and make assumptions like we would get 3 1sts for our #2, then why not add in getting Aaron Rodgers as part of the trade too.

Daniel Jones is a system fit for the Giants. Lamar Jackson really isn't.

Other teams draft system fits. Don't the Giants get to draft a system fit?

Agree that the Giants like pocket passers but Jones can beat you with his legs, which wasn't true of Manning, Warner, Collins, or the parade of bad QBs who preceded Collins, with the exception of Hostetler. It's not an "outside the box" choice but it's an evolution of their approach.

Why are people hyping him up? Because he had 5 TDs against Miami? Since then he's had 6 passing TDs and 5 INTs. He's also had 3 rushing TDs and 4 fumbles.



What's the point of this post? We didn't have an offer for two 1st round picks.

Imo? Looks like a home run for DG. We shall see

Never know how it would have turned out. We could have played that game with Eli too. Taken Ben and kept all those draft picks. But we don't know. That's life. The decision has been made hopefully it's the right one. I still think DJ shows plenty of reasons to be optimistic. After that first game his bar was raised unfairly way too high for future games. We may be sorry we didn't take Haskins too. It's way too early let's wait and see.

in games where Lamar Jackson will be forced to throw the ball to beat teams, he will fail.

Do you really think a QB like that is a great player? He's afforded the ability to not have to throw by having a very good D and a very good OL.

Not sure how he'd fare being down 2 scores for most of the game....

There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be.

His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over.

And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him.

Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game).

The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it.

is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good.

In comment 14639265 giants_10_88 said:

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is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good.

We had no shot at Bosa

In comment 14639250 Go Terps said:

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There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be. His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over. And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him. Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game). The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it.

100% correct. He is the biggest impact player drafted in the last two years. There is literally no question about it. It is weird folks are bashing him. If we had him we would be over the moon. He has been so special that without him Balt would probably be 1-6 instead of 6-1. He is very much in the mvp running, he is likely to break the record for rushing yds by a QB.

It is correct to point out that he has yet to show that he can win strictly as a passer vs good defenses. We'll have to wait and see how the Ravens deal with this, but to say Jones at this stage is better or has better prospects than Lamar, there is no justification for it. These two players are the same age. Jones was pretty bad yesterday against a beatable defense at home. Lamar dominated the Seahawks in their house. Plain and simple there is no comparison between these two players, at this stage.

It is also fair to point out however, that to make it work with Lamar the coaching staff has to reconfigure the offense to suit his unconventional style.

In comment 14639250 Go Terps said:

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There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be. His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over. And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him. Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game). The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it.

The Ravens should be winning. They were a 9-7 team before he got there in a much tougher division. The division is extremely weak right now.

No we wouldn't be going nuts over him. His style of play isn't sustainable. His last 6 games he's got 9 TDs with 5 INTs and 4 fumbles. What would we be going crazy over?

In comment 14639265 giants_10_88 said:

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is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good.

As Big Blue 56 points out we had no shot at Bosa but...

I would take Lamar, Chubb and Allen over Darnold and Bosa.

In comment 14639279 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

In comment 14639250 Go Terps said: Quote: There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be. His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over. And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him. Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game). The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it. The Ravens should be winning. They were a 9-7 team before he got there in a much tougher division. The division is extremely weak right now. No we wouldn't be going nuts over him. His style of play isn't sustainable. His last 6 games he's got 9 TDs with 5 INTs and 4 fumbles. What would we be going crazy over?

i highly suggest you watch the Seattle-Ravens game from yesterday to see for yourself why he is special. He is the greatest running QB in the history of the game. You may say that it is unsustainable, but right now it is winning against good teams, and the kid is 22.

you fucking kidding me??

Quote:

And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him.

if he were a Giant, people would be lamenting the fact that he couldn't throw the ball, will soon get hurt by a hit, and wondering why the GM didn't have better WR's for him.

We had a successful QB here and he took shit daily.

What the fuck are you talking about? He completed 45% of his passes for 143 yards. He had 116 yards rushing with 1 TD and 2 fumbles. That's dominating?

are winning games because of their defense. Pretty much their same formula since 2000.

Have traded out of #2 in 2018 for some additional number ones and drafted Nelson if possible with the trade back. I like Jones, he does have some concerns with the repeated mistakes, but he also has shown to have tremendous physical ability and I think has the "it" factor to be a consistent top 10 qb in this league. He has shown at least as well as the 2018 qbs so far, even with the ups and downs.

But drafting a running back with the #2 overall pick in my mind is akin to malpractice.

Their wins came against 5 teams that are a combined 10-22-1.

because of their organization and their HC. Jackson is a very limited player who is a great runner. If you think he'd be a good player with the Giants GM and HC you're nuts.

In comment 14639291 Big Rick in FL said:

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What the fuck are you talking about? He completed 45% of his passes for 143 yards. He had 116 yards rushing with 1 TD and 2 fumbles. That's dominating?

why don't you watch the fucking game. His ability to run and improvise blew that game open.

In comment 14639293 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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are winning games because of their defense. Pretty much their same formula since 2000.

Their defense is not that good this season, if we're being honest.

In comment 14639304 arniefez said:

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because of their organization and their HC. Jackson is a very limited player who is a great runner. If you think he'd be a good player with the Giants GM and HC you're nuts.

did you watch yesterday's game?

a good team that can make the ravens one-dimensional, he struggles and the team loses.

Watching the games might be advice you'd want to take too.

People love QB's who can run the ball. But you do realize their main job is to actually throw it and very few run-first QB's have had team success.

isn't good??

They have the 3rd best rushing D in the NFL.

And in a game where their QB "dominated" by going 9-20 in the air, they scored 2 TD's!!

What the fuck are you watching?

In comment 14639312 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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a good team that can make the ravens one-dimensional, he struggles and the team loses. Watching the games might be advice you'd want to take too. People love QB's who can run the ball. But you do realize their main job is to actually throw it and very few run-first QB's have had team success.

i have always agreed that the best qbs win in the pocket but the Ravens are out to prove that they can win with a QB like Lamar. Yesterday they ran single wing concepts for a significant part of the game. Are there going to be bumps in the road? Sure. But they are 6-1 and beating Seattle in their house is no easy feat. Could Daniel Jones do this now? And Lamar doesn't have as much talent around him as you might think. I'm not convinced he is a total game changer yet, but to poo poo it is just misguided. I watch more games than you, I would bet. Something interesting is happening in Baltimore.

In comment 14639102 AndyMilligan said:

Quote:

In comment 14639097 Anakim said: Quote: . i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind.

He's not even close to being the best player from the 2018 draft. Context is everything, and Baltimore are very strong on their offensive line and play to Jackson's strengths. They're a smart organisation, but if you watch Jackson, he really doesn't throw the ball well.

As I've posted elsewhere recently, if our front office had actually correctly assessed where the Giants are, then you could argue that Barkley is an unnecessary luxury. Gettleman said he couldn't get excited by any of the 2018 QB's. So, he couldn't get excited by Sam Darnold, but is excited by Daniel Jones. Really? Imagine we had drafted Darnold. Obviously with our offensive line, he would be having a rough time, but we could have used this year's 6th pick to help with that or at least a pass rusher.

thing that is happening is that they are controlling the game on the ground while their D hold down the other team. shortens the game and controls the clock.

And when they get against a team that can take away the run, they are fucked. Do we need to revisit last year's playoff game?

Because that's the type of teams they will play later on.

QB

OT/DE

CB

Those are the positions you spend top 10 drafts picks on.

The absolute least premium position is RB. The absolute easiest position to fill in the mid rounds to late rounds or even UDFA is RB.

If you've got an excellent OL it might make sense to use a premium pick on a RB. If you don't have a premium OL it is complete malpractice.

The Giants have absolutely no idea have to compete in this NFL. They are an old fashion, low energy out of date back to the 1970's organization.

Jackson won't last in NFL. I watched game. He takes some shots. Worse, he isn't a good password the football. He went off vs dolphins which is basically a pop Warner defense.

In comment 14639323 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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isn't good?? They have the 3rd best rushing D in the NFL. And in a game where their QB "dominated" by going 9-20 in the air, they scored 2 TD's!! What the fuck are you watching?

The Ravens are near the bottom of the league in total yards, bottom half in points allowed, bottom six in yards per play, bottom half in turnovers, 25th in sacks.. this defense is not special.

In comment 14639307 AndyMilligan said:

Quote:

In comment 14639291 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: What the fuck are you talking about? He completed 45% of his passes for 143 yards. He had 116 yards rushing with 1 TD and 2 fumbles. That's dominating? why don't you watch the fucking game. His ability to run and improvise blew that game open.

Their Defense scored 2 TDs. One on a horrible INT and the Seahawks Kicker missed a FG. That's why they won.

If Baltimore gets pasted by New England in the AFC title game because they couldn't run the ball, is that still an improvement over us finishing the season at 5-11 again because we couldn't do anything at all?

Lamar Jackson is on pace for:

3762 yds. passing
25 TDs passing
11 INTs

1313 yards rushing
7 TDs rushing

The Ravens have the highest scoring offense in the NFL. They lead the NFL in rushing yardage and total yardage. They lead the NFL in offensive plays run, and they are 10th in defensive plays (they haven't had their bye yet). They have a 5-2 record and look a safe bet to win their division.

Only on BBI, where a diminishing number of posters continue to rationalize the Giants' idiotic decisions these last 2 years, is Lamar Jackson still worthy of skepticism as the league gets ready to "catch up to him".

Like the Giants, some people on this board have become completely lost as modern events have passed them by.

In comment 14639388 Go Terps said:

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If Baltimore gets pasted by New England in the AFC title game because they couldn't run the ball, is that still an improvement over us finishing the season at 5-11 again because we couldn't do anything at all? Lamar Jackson is on pace for: 3762 yds. passing 25 TDs passing 11 INTs 1313 yards rushing 7 TDs rushing The Ravens have the highest scoring offense in the NFL. They lead the NFL in rushing yardage and total yardage. They lead the NFL in offensive plays run, and they are 10th in defensive plays (they haven't had their bye yet). They have a 5-2 record and look a safe bet to win their division. Only on BBI, where a diminishing number of posters continue to rationalize the Giants' idiotic decisions these last 2 years, is Lamar Jackson still worthy of skepticism as the league gets ready to "catch up to him". Like the Giants, some people on this board have become completely lost as modern events have passed them by.

We both know those passing numbers are skewed by the Fins game. He had 1 good passing game this year.

Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not?

I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI.

In comment 14639096 AndyMilligan said:

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Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Josh Allen is greater than Barkley and Jones.

3 players are better than 2? Probably

In comment 14639403 Go Terps said:

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Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not? I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI.

bingo.. look nobody thinks Barkley is a bad player. He is a great and exciting player. But yea.. at #2... in the position the Giants were in? Not a smart pick. Would much rather have Chubb late in the first round and another player like Lamar. There is a significant chance that Chubb winds up with the better career as well.

In comment 14639403 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not? I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI.

They were winning games before he was even in the NFL. Sorry I'm not going crazy for a QB who can't throw the ball and is beating up/winning games against shit teams. As we've seen many times running QBs aren't sustainable in the NFL.

He's 9-1 against losing teams and 2-3 against teams with a winning record while completing 51% of his passes against those teams with 7 total TDs, 1 INT and 7 fumbles.

In comment 14639448 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

In comment 14639403 Go Terps said: Quote: Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not? I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI. They were winning games before he was even in the NFL. Sorry I'm not going crazy for a QB who can't throw the ball and is beating up/winning games against shit teams. As we've seen many times running QBs aren't sustainable in the NFL. He's 9-1 against losing teams and 2-3 against teams with a winning record while completing 51% of his passes against those teams with 7 total TDs, 1 INT and 7 fumbles.

What is the Giants' record against losing teams and against winning teams since drafting Barkley?

In comment 14639457 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 14639448 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: In comment 14639403 Go Terps said: Quote: Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not? I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI. They were winning games before he was even in the NFL. Sorry I'm not going crazy for a QB who can't throw the ball and is beating up/winning games against shit teams. As we've seen many times running QBs aren't sustainable in the NFL. He's 9-1 against losing teams and 2-3 against teams with a winning record while completing 51% of his passes against those teams with 7 total TDs, 1 INT and 7 fumbles. What is the Giants' record against losing teams and against winning teams since drafting Barkley?

Barkley got drafted by a 3-13 team. Lamar Jackson got drafted by a 9-7 team. It's a dumb comparison.

In comment 14639448 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

In comment 14639403 Go Terps said: Quote: Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not? I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI. They were winning games before he was even in the NFL. Sorry I'm not going crazy for a QB who can't throw the ball and is beating up/winning games against shit teams. As we've seen many times running QBs aren't sustainable in the NFL. He's 9-1 against losing teams and 2-3 against teams with a winning record while completing 51% of his passes against those teams with 7 total TDs, 1 INT and 7 fumbles.

honestly you don't know what the hell you are talking about. When Lamar took over for Flacco the Ravens were 4-5, and losers of 4 of their last 5. With him they went on a 6-1 run. The kid was 21 years old. As a starting QB in the NFL, Lamar is 12-2. If you don't think Giants fans would lose their minds over that kind of success I suggest you rewind to the preseason when they lost their minds over Daniel Jones having a high completion pct in a preseason game and declared that his career floor as a QB was akin to Ben Rothlisberger and he could win multiple championships. Do you even read this forum? Do you even watch football?

He was touched by the hand of God. He's supposed to have had an integral role in turning this team around. What is the Giants' record since they drafted him? Against winning teams? Against losing teams? Let's set the bar lower...how has their offense ranked in points scored? How has the rushing offense ranked? How much did Barkley's presence help Eli at QB?

You can respond with excuses or you can save yourself the time...we know the real answers to those questions.

9-7 the year before they drafted him. Lamar came in during an extremely easy part of the schedule last year. He played the Bengals, Raiders, Falcons, Bucs and Browns.

In comment 14639472 Big Rick in FL said:

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9-7 the year before they drafted him. Lamar came in during an extremely easy part of the schedule last year. He played the Bengals, Raiders, Falcons, Bucs and Browns.

Too bad for him he hasn't gotten to play the Giants yet.

In comment 14639471 Go Terps said:

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He was touched by the hand of God. He's supposed to have had an integral role in turning this team around. What is the Giants' record since they drafted him? Against winning teams? Against losing teams? Let's set the bar lower...how has their offense ranked in points scored? How has the rushing offense ranked? How much did Barkley's presence help Eli at QB? You can respond with excuses or you can save yourself the time...we know the real answers to those questions.

Using win/loss record to compare individual players is fucking dumb. Especially comparing a team that won 9 games to a team that won 3 games. The Giants are obviously a lot less talented.

If you think the Giants with Lamar Jackson would have anywhere near the same amount of wins as the Ravens you're smoking crack.

I'd bet my house that he wasn't even on their draft board.

In comment 14639443 AndyMilligan said:

Quote:

In comment 14639403 Go Terps said: Quote: Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not? I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI. bingo.. look nobody thinks Barkley is a bad player. He is a great and exciting player. But yea.. at #2... in the position the Giants were in? Not a smart pick. Would much rather have Chubb late in the first round and another player like Lamar. There is a significant chance that Chubb winds up with the better career as well.

Agreed with both of you. Some on here still seem reluctant to accept the premise that Barkley could be a great running back and still have been the wrong pick. It was a luxury pick for a team that couldn't afford anything close to it at that point.

In comment 14639483 Go Terps said:

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I'd bet my house that he wasn't even on their draft board.

i hearya.. i should say i am still hopeful about Jones. There is a chance he can be really good. But he has only flashed moments so far. That's nothing. Marcus Mariota flashed much bigger moments than Jones and that dude is not an NFL QB. Lamar is succeeding. Anybody who wouldn't take Lamar over Jones right now isn't paying attention. I'm pretty sure 90% of gms past and present would take Lamar.

Quote:

I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI.

Yes. Drafting excellent players is a mistake. Got it.

If we can just get a bunch of guys on their first contracts to play for cheap we could build a powerhouse, and not even use a RB!!! They are fungible!

But running QB's? Not fungible I, er, guess???

In comment 14639271 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14639265 giants_10_88 said: Quote: is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good. We had no shot at Bosa

If we drafted Darnold last year instead of Barkley, we absolutely would've had a shot at Bosa, because the team would've had a much worse record.

In comment 14639518 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Quote: I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI. Yes. Drafting excellent players is a mistake. Got it. If we can just get a bunch of guys on their first contracts to play for cheap we could build a powerhouse, and not even use a RB!!! They are fungible! But running QB's? Not fungible I, er, guess???

Give it up already, man.

In comment 14639518 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

Quote: I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI. Yes. Drafting excellent players is a mistake. Got it. If we can just get a bunch of guys on their first contracts to play for cheap we could build a powerhouse, and not even use a RB!!! They are fungible! But running QB's? Not fungible I, er, guess???

I think their point is "It doesn't matter how talented Barkley is, a running back only has so much impact, so even if Barkley is three times the player Nick Chubb is, both will have similar impact on the game as a whole - so Chubb is the smarter choice as he takes less draft capital to obtain and less money to keep."

then you weren't watching Chase Edmonds (drafted 3 rounds and 132 picks after Barkley) be the best back on the field yesterday.

But hey, Fordham is an FBS powerhouse that's been known for its power running game since the Seven Blocks of Granite.

Lamar Jackson, Chub, Ed Oliver, Dexter Lawrence is I think what you meant vs:

Jones and Barkely

But hey, Barkley puts up great fantasy numbers!
(or at least he did last year)

In comment 14639530 Go Terps said:

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then you weren't watching Chase Edmonds (drafted 3 rounds and 132 picks after Barkley) be the best back on the field yesterday. But hey, Fordham is an FBS powerhouse that's been known for its power running game since the Seven Blocks of Granite.

Absolutely. RBs are a fungible resource.

In comment 14639526 FStubbs said:

Quote:

In comment 14639518 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: Quote: I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI. Yes. Drafting excellent players is a mistake. Got it. If we can just get a bunch of guys on their first contracts to play for cheap we could build a powerhouse, and not even use a RB!!! They are fungible! But running QB's? Not fungible I, er, guess??? I think their point is "It doesn't matter how talented Barkley is, a running back only has so much impact, so even if Barkley is three times the player Nick Chubb is, both will have similar impact on the game as a whole - so Chubb is the smarter choice as he takes less draft capital to obtain and less money to keep."

But of course Barkley is not three times the player Chubb is. Chubb is great. Maybe Barkley is ten to 15 percent better.

somebody would bring up Edmonds as an example of a fungible back.

Not realizing that fungible really doesn't have that meaning. By that logic, QB's are fungible since Minshew, Kyle Allen, and Teddy Bridgewater have stepped in without their teams missing a beat.

But we don't hear that claim. Why?

And Terps - fuck off with the "give it up already" shit. You keep beating the drum that Barkley was a bad pick, I'm guessing because if you say it enough times, you'll think a point will magically appear.

It only becomes clearer with every loss. Everyone running the Giants, from the owners through Gettleman to Shurmur, are failing at their jobs as we speak. Part of that failure is the construction of the team, a major part of which was the Barkley pick.

The proof is right there on the field week after week. The rest is excuses and rationalizations. I don't know what else to tell you.

In comment 14639611 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Not realizing that fungible really doesn't have that meaning. By that logic, QB's are fungible since Minshew, Kyle Allen, and Teddy Bridgewater have stepped in without their teams missing a beat. But we don't hear that claim. Why?

You wrote that with a straight face?

In comment 14639611 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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somebody would bring up Edmonds as an example of a fungible back. Not realizing that fungible really doesn't have that meaning. By that logic, QB's are fungible since Minshew, Kyle Allen, and Teddy Bridgewater have stepped in without their teams missing a beat. But we don't hear that claim. Why? And Terps - fuck off with the "give it up already" shit. You keep beating the drum that Barkley was a bad pick, I'm guessing because if you say it enough times, you'll think a point will magically appear.

You got to start bringing something better than this.

Or back down quietly...

It doesn't surprise me you are looking for me to back down quietly.

Because when it is all said and done, a lot of people are going to look like idiots by saying Barkley is a bad pick.

Name some excellent players who have gone down in the annals as bad picks.

To support the nonsense, we are going to have ridiculous points made that because a RB from Fordham had a good game that RB's are fungible and have as much impact as the #2 pick.

And in some warped world, a season and a half in, you think saying Barkley is a bad pick is the correct take. Even as you watch the likely alternatives struggle.

Picking excellent players is never bad. Maybe someday that will sink in

of the word bad as used by Terps. It wasn't bad as in Barkley is a bad player...it was bad because value wasn't maximized. Particularly with a team that was in deep need of a restructuring.

But surely you don't need that explained.

If so, refrain back to the back down quietly post...

to take Jackson? There were a lot of people who wanted Barkley with the first and Jackson with the second round pick.

has nothing to do with Barkley. He's a tremendous football players. But he just happens to play a position that is as plentiful as coffee.

Good FG kickers are harder to find than good RBs. And they are having greater impacts on the outcome of games. Hell, I could have argued taking a K at #2 made more sense than a RB...

as been mentioned before.

you guys really aren't being facetious.

That's pretty sad on quite a few levels.

would have changed the narrative completely... when we ended up getting a viable QB prospect the following year.

So what would have been the right combination to placate people? And why isn't Jones/Barkley good enough?

Darnold/Allen?

I mean, we're talking two picks/players here. What two different players would have completely changed the complexion of this team?

you have to follow along more closely to the Intelligentsia.

It isn't necessarily Darnold/Allen vs. Barkley/Jones. It is the trade down of supposedly loading up on several OL and Pass rushers.

Of course, that narrative interestingly changed when the QB's from last year all look mediocre to terrible so far. But you see, Barkley is a RB that is a useless pick (but a supposedly "easy" one). I'll likely need that line of horseshit explained to me too.

I'm still waiting for somebody to point out an excellent player who really wasn't a good pick. I mean, the Giants are so moronic that they must have broken new ground!!

In comment 14639764 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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you guys really aren't being facetious. That's pretty sad on quite a few levels.

well at least you seem a bit more quiet...

In comment 14639796 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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you have to follow along more closely to the Intelligentsia. It isn't necessarily Darnold/Allen vs. Barkley/Jones. It is the trade down of supposedly loading up on several OL and Pass rushers. Of course, that narrative interestingly changed when the QB's from last year all look mediocre to terrible so far. But you see, Barkley is a RB that is a useless pick (but a supposedly "easy" one). I'll likely need that line of horseshit explained to me too. I'm still waiting for somebody to point out an excellent player who really wasn't a good pick. I mean, the Giants are so moronic that they must have broken new ground!!

I spoke to soon.

Here comes the rants...

In comment 14639778 Britt in VA said:

Quote:

would have changed the narrative completely... when we ended up getting a viable QB prospect the following year. So what would have been the right combination to placate people? And why isn't Jones/Barkley good enough? Darnold/Allen? I mean, we're talking two picks/players here. What two different players would have completely changed the complexion of this team?

For the 2018 and 2019 draft, any of these combinations made more sense with the first round picks than QB and RB:

QB, OL, DE, Edge/LB, and, maybe Corner.

even Don Quixote probably got tired of chasing windmills, and he didn't have the added layer of trolls nipping at his ankles.

The Jets did not give up a first to move from 6 to 3.

The Cardinals only gave up a 3rd round pick to move from 15 to 10 for Rosen.

So while I understand the constant drum beating for a trade down (every year for as long as I remember), you have to have a willing partner. You don't trade out of #2 overall for anything that doesn't include an additional first round pick, IMO. And that just didn't seem to be there, and Gettleman said so when he said he wasn't going trade the pick for a "bag of donuts" which tells you about the offers he was receiving the week leading up to the draft.

back to week one when the Jets beat the Lions last year.

It wasn't the trade down people were screaming about....

But revisionist history is pretty common here.

In comment 14639803 bw in dc said:

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In comment 14639778 Britt in VA said: Quote: would have changed the narrative completely... when we ended up getting a viable QB prospect the following year. So what would have been the right combination to placate people? And why isn't Jones/Barkley good enough? Darnold/Allen? I mean, we're talking two picks/players here. What two different players would have completely changed the complexion of this team? For the 2018 and 2019 draft, any of these combinations made more sense with the first round picks than QB and RB: QB, OL, DE, Edge/LB, and, maybe Corner.

Well wait a second... ANY combination? Or any combination of QB plus? Because we all know that you didn't want Eli here anymore. So QB had to be part of the combo, no?

In comment 14639805 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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even Don Quixote probably got tired of chasing windmills, and he didn't have the added layer of trolls nipping at his ankles.

If you're tired, then leave.

Come back in a few years when its time to let everybody know you were right and they were idiots...

already ran dep off.

You're probably done contributing for the year.

As i recall he ranted to the point where others made that decision.

You know the ranting type.

Listen to the bell...it tolls for thee.

The mental strength it takes to continue to say the same points all over again with the same people who will never change their minds. This may come off as sarcasm, but I'm serious.

In comment 14639847 crick n NC said:

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The mental strength it takes to continue to say the same points all over again with the same people who will never change their minds. This may come off as sarcasm, but I'm serious.

What else is there to talk about concerning the Giants? The football itself is embarrassing and there isn't any prospect of that changing under this leadership.

In comment 14639857 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 14639847 crick n NC said: Quote: The mental strength it takes to continue to say the same points all over again with the same people who will never change their minds. This may come off as sarcasm, but I'm serious. What else is there to talk about concerning the Giants? The football itself is embarrassing and there isn't any prospect of that changing under this leadership.

Sometimes quiet is good

In comment 14639671 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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Because when it is all said and done, a lot of people are going to look like idiots by saying Barkley is a bad pick.

Oh, a prediction fight against Go Terps! I know who my money is on.

?

In comment 14639871 Go Terps said:

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?

I'm not saying what you should do terps. I am simply impressed by the stamina you all have.

If I had season tickets I'd sell them all to cowboys fans.

This is where we’re at. Jones looks to be a solid player & Barkley has tremendous talent. There are coaches out there that have won with less.

Find someone who can scheme with the talent we have and win.

Voice is worth much to the giants on this website, and even if the giants were listening NY giants football isn't that important to me to fight for. Just my preference.

In comment 14639885 Sean said:

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This is where we’re at. Jones looks to be a solid player & Barkley has tremendous talent. There are coaches out there that have won with less. Find someone who can scheme with the talent we have and win.

This point should not be diminished. All of the debates over who we should have taken... with this staff, I'm convinced they're all moot. I suppose you could piece together the absolute perfect FA acquisitions and draft picks and argue it might be enough to overcome Shurmur, but anything less and I'm sure the Giants would still be embarrassing.

In comment 14639816 Britt in VA said:

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For the 2018 and 2019 draft, any of these combinations made more sense with the first round picks than QB and RB: QB, OL, DE, Edge/LB, and, maybe Corner. Well wait a second... ANY combination? Or any combination of QB plus? Because we all know that you didn't want Eli here anymore. So QB had to be part of the combo, no?

Ideally, yes. But I thought there was good QB value in some later rounds, too.

The Barkley debate actually bothers me because I am lifelong PSU fan. And I knew about him in high school because his school, Whitehall/PA (produced Matt Millen and Dan Koppen), used to play my high school, Phillipsburg/NJ, when both teams played in the East Penn Conference a long time ago. It was a conference rich in football talent.

My dad told me about him several years ago when he saw SB play against Easton HS. He said he was an absolute freak.

Look, it's just a philosophical difference. I despise the cap model. Wish it was gone or softer. But with it here, you want to get the best value for that cap dollar. And right now RB is not the best value because it's a position that is abundant in supply.

In comment 14639885 Sean said:

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This is where we’re at. Jones looks to be a solid player & Barkley has tremendous talent. There are coaches out there that have won with less. Find someone who can scheme with the talent we have and win.

we're just having a football talk. We know we're at where we're at. Having said that, Barkley does indeed have tremendous talent. Jones is a giant question mark. He has shown brilliant flashes. But he has been awful the last three games.

Anyone who thinks Chubb is as good/better than Barkley is a either troll or an idiot.

And swap Jackson and Jones and the teams are in the same position.

In comment 14639271 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 14639265 giants_10_88 said: Quote: is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good. We had no shot at Bosa

We probably finsih with a worse record if we were playing Darnold all year instead of Barkey. After all the Jets with Darnold finished 3rd.

how much of a stud Bosa is. Do they have a third brother?

brother is probably being synthetically made in a test-tube right now.

Enjoy the Bosa's for the limited time their muscles are able to stay secured to bone...

In comment 14640550 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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brother is probably being synthetically made in a test-tube right now. Enjoy the Bosa's for the limited time their muscles are able to stay secured to bone...

😂😂