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in hindsight would you prefer this outcome of 2018/19 drafts

AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 2:45 pm
First, I want to be clear, I am happy we have Daniel Jones. I was happy we picked a QB at 6 and I am hopeful by what we have seen overall, so far.

But as I said on another post, it is conceivable the Giants could have gotten two firsts for their 2018 #2 and gotten Lamar Jackson and Nick Chubb. And then in 2019 gotten Josh Allen.

Looking in hindsight I think:

Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Josh Allen & gt; Barkley and Jones.

Do you agree? Of course it requires going all-in remaking the team to suit Lamar's strengths. But I think most objective observers would agree with me.
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that should read  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 2:47 pm : link
Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Josh Allen is greater than Barkley and Jones.
I'd rather have gotten Saquon and Josh Allen  
Anakim : 10/21/2019 2:47 pm : link
.
This Giants ownership would never draft a player like  
Jints in Carolina : 10/21/2019 2:48 pm : link
Lamar Jackson...they don't like to think outside the box.

They prefer pocket passers.
hey i got an idea  
GiantNatty : 10/21/2019 2:48 pm : link
why don't we let this play out for a few seasons before we get cute with the hypotheticals?
RE: I'd rather have gotten Saquon and Josh Allen  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 2:48 pm : link
In comment 14639097 Anakim said:
Quote:
.


i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind.
RE: This Giants ownership would never draft a player like  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14639100 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
Lamar Jackson...they don't like to think outside the box.

They prefer pocket passers.


True...
RE: RE: I'd rather have gotten Saquon and Josh Allen  
Anakim : 10/21/2019 2:50 pm : link
In comment 14639102 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14639097 Anakim said:


Quote:


.



i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind.


I disagree. Saquon is still the best player from that 2018 Draft. I did, however have Lamar Jackson as my #2 QB in that Draft behind Baker Mayfield so I wouldn't have minded at all if we ended up with Jackson. Not over Saquon, but like trading back into the first round to take him.
I saw Jackson several times in college and ...  
Spider56 : 10/21/2019 2:54 pm : link
he was an incredible talent with the ball but had zero polish as a QB... Hes been coached up by Harbaugh who deserves credit for getting him where he is today, and building a team around him. The comparison is apples and cumquats because it appears Shurmur is clueless as a head coach.
I would 1,000,000% have traded the #2 last year for 3 1s  
V.I.G. : 10/21/2019 3:00 pm : link
Jones this year + those 3 1s = a better team

High draft capital "Generational RBs" can't win by themselves.
Believed it then
Believe it now

You Honor, the defense would like to enter into evidence, the entire fukking history of the NFL
RE: RE: RE: I'd rather have gotten Saquon and Josh Allen  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14639104 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14639102 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


In comment 14639097 Anakim said:


Quote:


.



i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind.



I disagree. Saquon is still the best player from that 2018 Draft. I did, however have Lamar Jackson as my #2 QB in that Draft behind Baker Mayfield so I wouldn't have minded at all if we ended up with Jackson. Not over Saquon, but like trading back into the first round to take him.


I respectfully disagree. I love SB but I worry he is not the type of back that will have sustained success in the NFL unlike Nick Chubb and Zeke. He is more athletically gifted than those guys, though those guys are fabulous specimens too, but they seem to be more effective between the tackles and that's not really SB's strength.

But I think right now I would conclude Lamar is the biggest difference maker out of that draft. His performance yesterday was unreal. He took apart Seattle with his running ability.
RE: I would 1,000,000% have traded the #2 last year for 3 1s  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 3:05 pm : link
In comment 14639126 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
Jones this year + those 3 1s = a better team

High draft capital "Generational RBs" can't win by themselves.
Believed it then
Believe it now

You Honor, the defense would like to enter into evidence, the entire fukking history of the NFL


i agree about not spending such a high pick on a RB, especially when you can get Chubb for a low first.
The difference is that Jackson has a good roster  
Rudy5757 : 10/21/2019 3:15 pm : link
the Giants roster is shitty. the talent on the Giants right now is just terrible. We are so accustomed to seeing bad football players that average players looked all pros in preseason. then the games started and we are seeing that they are not good players. I do think that DJ has a chance to be good, but the talent around him is nowhere near playoff caliber.

If Jackson was here he would probably look terrible with this supporting cast too.

I was Duped!
these threads are cute  
UConn4523 : 10/21/2019 3:17 pm : link
.
This is such a Monday morning QB thing  
PatersonPlank : 10/21/2019 3:20 pm : link
You can literally take any Giants draft ever, wait 2 years, and then make a thread like this. I love Barkley and Jones. If we could predict the future, and make assumptions like we would get 3 1sts for our #2, then why not add in getting Aaron Rodgers as part of the trade too.
As others have observed:  
81_Great_Dane : 10/21/2019 3:31 pm : link
Daniel Jones is a system fit for the Giants. Lamar Jackson really isn't.

Other teams draft system fits. Don't the Giants get to draft a system fit?

Agree that the Giants like pocket passers but Jones can beat you with his legs, which wasn't true of Manning, Warner, Collins, or the parade of bad QBs who preceded Collins, with the exception of Hostetler. It's not an "outside the box" choice but it's an evolution of their approach.
Lamar Jackson isn't a good QB  
Big Rick in FL : 10/21/2019 3:33 pm : link
Why are people hyping him up? Because he had 5 TDs against Miami? Since then he's had 6 passing TDs and 5 INTs. He's also had 3 rushing TDs and 4 fumbles.



What's the point of this post? We didn't have an offer for two 1st round picks.
Very happy with Barkley and DJ.  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 3:37 pm : link
Imo? Looks like a home run for DG. We shall see
That's a very tough game to play. Woulda coulda shoulda.  
Blue21 : 10/21/2019 3:40 pm : link
Never know how it would have turned out. We could have played that game with Eli too. Taken Ben and kept all those draft picks. But we don't know. That's life. The decision has been made hopefully it's the right one. I still think DJ shows plenty of reasons to be optimistic. After that first game his bar was raised unfairly way too high for future games. We may be sorry we didn't take Haskins too. It's way too early let's wait and see.
Sadly..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 3:51 pm : link
in games where Lamar Jackson will be forced to throw the ball to beat teams, he will fail.

Do you really think a QB like that is a great player? He's afforded the ability to not have to throw by having a very good D and a very good OL.

Not sure how he'd fare being down 2 scores for most of the game....
Lamar Jackson is impacting his team right now  
Go Terps : 10/21/2019 4:01 pm : link
There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be.

His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over.

And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him.

Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game).

The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it.
Only combo I would have preffered  
giants_10_88 : 10/21/2019 4:07 pm : link
is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good.
RE: Only combo I would have preffered  
Big Blue '56 : 10/21/2019 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14639265 giants_10_88 said:
Quote:
is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good.


We had no shot at Bosa
RE: Lamar Jackson is impacting his team right now  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:09 pm : link
In comment 14639250 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be.

His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over.

And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him.

Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game).

The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it.


100% correct. He is the biggest impact player drafted in the last two years. There is literally no question about it. It is weird folks are bashing him. If we had him we would be over the moon. He has been so special that without him Balt would probably be 1-6 instead of 6-1. He is very much in the mvp running, he is likely to break the record for rushing yds by a QB.

It is correct to point out that he has yet to show that he can win strictly as a passer vs good defenses. We'll have to wait and see how the Ravens deal with this, but to say Jones at this stage is better or has better prospects than Lamar, there is no justification for it. These two players are the same age. Jones was pretty bad yesterday against a beatable defense at home. Lamar dominated the Seahawks in their house. Plain and simple there is no comparison between these two players, at this stage.

It is also fair to point out however, that to make it work with Lamar the coaching staff has to reconfigure the offense to suit his unconventional style.
RE: Lamar Jackson is impacting his team right now  
Big Rick in FL : 10/21/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14639250 Go Terps said:
Quote:
There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be.

His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over.

And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him.

Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game).

The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it.


The Ravens should be winning. They were a 9-7 team before he got there in a much tougher division. The division is extremely weak right now.

No we wouldn't be going nuts over him. His style of play isn't sustainable. His last 6 games he's got 9 TDs with 5 INTs and 4 fumbles. What would we be going crazy over?
RE: Only combo I would have preffered  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14639265 giants_10_88 said:
Quote:
is Darnold + Nick Bosa. Not because I think Darnold is better than Jones but Bosa is just that good.


As Big Blue 56 points out we had no shot at Bosa but...

I would take Lamar, Chubb and Allen over Darnold and Bosa.
RE: RE: Lamar Jackson is impacting his team right now  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:12 pm : link
In comment 14639279 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14639250 Go Terps said:


Quote:


There is no "he needs to develop" talk with him. Baltimore is a Super Bowl contender for in part to Jackson running the offense. He is never going to be a great passer, but he doesn't have to be.

His impact on his team is greater than any other player from the last two drafts. The Ravens have been one of the best offenses in football since he took over.

And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him.

Their record is, I think, 11-4 since he became the QB (including the playoff game).

The guy will finish in the top ten or better off the MVP balloting this year. Actually, now that Mahomes is out here might have a legit shot at winning it.



The Ravens should be winning. They were a 9-7 team before he got there in a much tougher division. The division is extremely weak right now.

No we wouldn't be going nuts over him. His style of play isn't sustainable. His last 6 games he's got 9 TDs with 5 INTs and 4 fumbles. What would we be going crazy over?


i highly suggest you watch the Seattle-Ravens game from yesterday to see for yourself why he is special. He is the greatest running QB in the history of the game. You may say that it is unsustainable, but right now it is winning against good teams, and the kid is 22.
Are..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 4:13 pm : link
you fucking kidding me??

Quote:
And it's funny to see people here knocking him. If he was on the Giants we'd all be going nuts over him.


if he were a Giant, people would be lamenting the fact that he couldn't throw the ball, will soon get hurt by a hit, and wondering why the GM didn't have better WR's for him.

We had a successful QB here and he took shit daily.
Lamar dominated the Seahawks?  
Big Rick in FL : 10/21/2019 4:13 pm : link
What the fuck are you talking about? He completed 45% of his passes for 143 yards. He had 116 yards rushing with 1 TD and 2 fumbles. That's dominating?
The Ravens..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 4:14 pm : link
are winning games because of their defense. Pretty much their same formula since 2000.
I Would  
lax counsel : 10/21/2019 4:15 pm : link
Have traded out of #2 in 2018 for some additional number ones and drafted Nelson if possible with the trade back. I like Jones, he does have some concerns with the repeated mistakes, but he also has shown to have tremendous physical ability and I think has the "it" factor to be a consistent top 10 qb in this league. He has shown at least as well as the 2018 qbs so far, even with the ups and downs.

But drafting a running back with the #2 overall pick in my mind is akin to malpractice.
Winning games against good teams?  
Big Rick in FL : 10/21/2019 4:16 pm : link
Their wins came against 5 teams that are a combined 10-22-1.
The Ravens are winning games  
arniefez : 10/21/2019 4:20 pm : link
because of their organization and their HC. Jackson is a very limited player who is a great runner. If you think he'd be a good player with the Giants GM and HC you're nuts.
RE: Lamar dominated the Seahawks?  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:23 pm : link
In comment 14639291 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
What the fuck are you talking about? He completed 45% of his passes for 143 yards. He had 116 yards rushing with 1 TD and 2 fumbles. That's dominating?


why don't you watch the fucking game. His ability to run and improvise blew that game open.
RE: The Ravens..  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14639293 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
are winning games because of their defense. Pretty much their same formula since 2000.

Their defense is not that good this season, if we're being honest.
RE: The Ravens are winning games  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:24 pm : link
In comment 14639304 arniefez said:
Quote:
because of their organization and their HC. Jackson is a very limited player who is a great runner. If you think he'd be a good player with the Giants GM and HC you're nuts.

did you watch yesterday's game?
And when he faces..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 4:25 pm : link
a good team that can make the ravens one-dimensional, he struggles and the team loses.

Watching the games might be advice you'd want to take too.

People love QB's who can run the ball. But you do realize their main job is to actually throw it and very few run-first QB's have had team success.
The defense..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 4:28 pm : link
isn't good??

They have the 3rd best rushing D in the NFL.

And in a game where their QB "dominated" by going 9-20 in the air, they scored 2 TD's!!

What the fuck are you watching?
RE: And when he faces..  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14639312 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a good team that can make the ravens one-dimensional, he struggles and the team loses.

Watching the games might be advice you'd want to take too.

People love QB's who can run the ball. But you do realize their main job is to actually throw it and very few run-first QB's have had team success.


i have always agreed that the best qbs win in the pocket but the Ravens are out to prove that they can win with a QB like Lamar. Yesterday they ran single wing concepts for a significant part of the game. Are there going to be bumps in the road? Sure. But they are 6-1 and beating Seattle in their house is no easy feat. Could Daniel Jones do this now? And Lamar doesn't have as much talent around him as you might think. I'm not convinced he is a total game changer yet, but to poo poo it is just misguided. I watch more games than you, I would bet. Something interesting is happening in Baltimore.
RE: RE: I'd rather have gotten Saquon and Josh Allen  
Gruber : 10/21/2019 4:30 pm : link
In comment 14639102 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14639097 Anakim said:


Quote:


.



i hearya... but Lamar right now is the best player from that 2018 draft, imo. He went into Seattle and beat the Hawks. He is a difference maker, even though his passing stats are pedestrian. And he is the same as as DJ, let's keep this in mind.


He's not even close to being the best player from the 2018 draft. Context is everything, and Baltimore are very strong on their offensive line and play to Jackson's strengths. They're a smart organisation, but if you watch Jackson, he really doesn't throw the ball well.

As I've posted elsewhere recently, if our front office had actually correctly assessed where the Giants are, then you could argue that Barkley is an unnecessary luxury. Gettleman said he couldn't get excited by any of the 2018 QB's. So, he couldn't get excited by Sam Darnold, but is excited by Daniel Jones. Really? Imagine we had drafted Darnold. Obviously with our offensive line, he would be having a rough time, but we could have used this year's 6th pick to help with that or at least a pass rusher.
The interesting..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 4:31 pm : link
thing that is happening is that they are controlling the game on the ground while their D hold down the other team. shortens the game and controls the clock.

And when they get against a team that can take away the run, they are fucked. Do we need to revisit last year's playoff game?

Because that's the type of teams they will play later on.
Premium positions in the NFL  
arniefez : 10/21/2019 4:31 pm : link
QB

OT/DE

CB

Those are the positions you spend top 10 drafts picks on.

The absolute least premium position is RB. The absolute easiest position to fill in the mid rounds to late rounds or even UDFA is RB.

If you've got an excellent OL it might make sense to use a premium pick on a RB. If you don't have a premium OL it is complete malpractice.

The Giants have absolutely no idea have to compete in this NFL. They are an old fashion, low energy out of date back to the 1970's organization.
....  
BleedBlue : 10/21/2019 4:32 pm : link
Jackson won't last in NFL. I watched game. He takes some shots. Worse, he isn't a good password the football. He went off vs dolphins which is basically a pop Warner defense.
RE: The defense..  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 4:33 pm : link
In comment 14639323 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
isn't good??

They have the 3rd best rushing D in the NFL.

And in a game where their QB "dominated" by going 9-20 in the air, they scored 2 TD's!!

What the fuck are you watching?


The Ravens are near the bottom of the league in total yards, bottom half in points allowed, bottom six in yards per play, bottom half in turnovers, 25th in sacks.. this defense is not special.
RE: RE: Lamar dominated the Seahawks?  
Big Rick in FL : 10/21/2019 4:34 pm : link
In comment 14639307 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14639291 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


What the fuck are you talking about? He completed 45% of his passes for 143 yards. He had 116 yards rushing with 1 TD and 2 fumbles. That's dominating?



why don't you watch the fucking game. His ability to run and improvise blew that game open.


Their Defense scored 2 TDs. One on a horrible INT and the Seahawks Kicker missed a FG. That's why they won.
.  
Go Terps : 10/21/2019 4:59 pm : link
If Baltimore gets pasted by New England in the AFC title game because they couldn't run the ball, is that still an improvement over us finishing the season at 5-11 again because we couldn't do anything at all?

Lamar Jackson is on pace for:

3762 yds. passing
25 TDs passing
11 INTs

1313 yards rushing
7 TDs rushing

The Ravens have the highest scoring offense in the NFL. They lead the NFL in rushing yardage and total yardage. They lead the NFL in offensive plays run, and they are 10th in defensive plays (they haven't had their bye yet). They have a 5-2 record and look a safe bet to win their division.

Only on BBI, where a diminishing number of posters continue to rationalize the Giants' idiotic decisions these last 2 years, is Lamar Jackson still worthy of skepticism as the league gets ready to "catch up to him".

Like the Giants, some people on this board have become completely lost as modern events have passed them by.
RE: .  
Big Rick in FL : 10/21/2019 5:03 pm : link
In comment 14639388 Go Terps said:
Quote:
If Baltimore gets pasted by New England in the AFC title game because they couldn't run the ball, is that still an improvement over us finishing the season at 5-11 again because we couldn't do anything at all?

Lamar Jackson is on pace for:

3762 yds. passing
25 TDs passing
11 INTs

1313 yards rushing
7 TDs rushing

The Ravens have the highest scoring offense in the NFL. They lead the NFL in rushing yardage and total yardage. They lead the NFL in offensive plays run, and they are 10th in defensive plays (they haven't had their bye yet). They have a 5-2 record and look a safe bet to win their division.

Only on BBI, where a diminishing number of posters continue to rationalize the Giants' idiotic decisions these last 2 years, is Lamar Jackson still worthy of skepticism as the league gets ready to "catch up to him".

Like the Giants, some people on this board have become completely lost as modern events have passed them by.



We both know those passing numbers are skewed by the Fins game. He had 1 good passing game this year.
Are they or are they not winning games?  
Go Terps : 10/21/2019 5:06 pm : link
Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not?

I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI.
RE: that should read  
cokeduplt : 10/21/2019 5:25 pm : link
In comment 14639096 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
Lamar Jackson, Nick Chubb, Josh Allen is greater than Barkley and Jones.


3 players are better than 2? Probably
RE: Are they or are they not winning games?  
AndyMilligan : 10/21/2019 5:27 pm : link
In comment 14639403 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not?

I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI.

bingo.. look nobody thinks Barkley is a bad player. He is a great and exciting player. But yea.. at #2... in the position the Giants were in? Not a smart pick. Would much rather have Chubb late in the first round and another player like Lamar. There is a significant chance that Chubb winds up with the better career as well.
RE: Are they or are they not winning games?  
Big Rick in FL : 10/21/2019 5:30 pm : link
In comment 14639403 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Is Jackson leading the most effective rushing attack in the league, or is he not?

I know it's hard to accept that the Barkley pick was a mistake (which is essentially what the thread starter is getting at), but the sooner we all accept the hard truths about the people running this organization, the better for the collective IQ of BBI.


They were winning games before he was even in the NFL. Sorry I'm not going crazy for a QB who can't throw the ball and is beating up/winning games against shit teams. As we've seen many times running QBs aren't sustainable in the NFL.

He's 9-1 against losing teams and 2-3 against teams with a winning record while completing 51% of his passes against those teams with 7 total TDs, 1 INT and 7 fumbles.
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