I think there is an absolute majority on this board, with very few in the minority, who feel that Pat Shurmur is not a good football coach.
Knowing this team as well as we all do, is there anyone who truly believes this team would entertain letting him go after this season?
I think it would take a PR nightmare that would make the Eli-Geno Smith nonsense seem like small potatoes for this management group to even consider firing Shurmur after this season.
I would eat my hat if it does happen, but he's going to get bailed out by the rookie QB/full season with his own QB excuse.
I try very hard not to be a sky is falling guy. As much as I never wanted him here, I embraced the idea that he might work magic with QBs/offenses. I guess there's been a hope that he is not who a lot of us thought he was, but yesterday's loss was as devastating as they come because of the realization that not only do we have a bad football coach, but one who will likely be here until January 2021.
It could just be that Shurmur is a good OC and not a good HC
That said, yeah I have lost a lot of confidence in this staff at this point. We are a lucky FG miss away from being 1-6. It's enough already...
It could just be that Shurmur is a good OC and not a good HC
Trust me, I know.
I don't think Mara has it in him to pull the plug 2 seasons after pulling the plug after 2 seasons.
But it is painfully obvious that's what needs to be done.
It could just be that Shurmur is a good OC and not a good HC
Maybe. What's sad is I was OK with the Shurmur hire, but the one thing that gave me pause? That beating that the Eagles gave Minnesota absolutely stifling his offense in the playoffs.
I hope you're right.
Maybe I'll livestream my attempt and all can watch if you pay Eric a quarter.
I think he gets one more offseason to build around Jones. They will have all the cap room and draft capital they need to fill the glaring holes. At least they should. It's just a matter of hitting on the premium picks and signing the right fits, not necessarily the biggest names.
I don't see any significant upgrade other than RB. Gettleman replaced mediocre players with different mediocre players
I don't see any significant upgrade other than RB. Gettleman replaced mediocre players with different mediocre players
The O-line is better. They didn't look like it yesterday but it's hard to play for everyone in that kind of weather.
In my opinion, any hope of getting to 7-9 wins went bye-bye yesterday against a team of equal or less overall talent @ home, after 10 days off, with some better players returning to the lineup.
I don't see a path to greater than 5 wins as of now.
Agreed but if the ownership decides that Shurmur is gone. What happens if it opens a Arizona situation where a new head coach comes in and doesn't want Jones. He decides that he wants his guy and then wants to make a play for one of the guys coming out?
Not saying Jones is doing a bad job but if the new guy wants (insert name <here>) Then what?
Or worse they can Shurmur and then are having to hire a guy from a potentially smaller pool because the ownership has decided to keep Jones. The replacement could end up being worse than Shurmur. Let's be honest it is not like people were lining up for the job when Shurmur was hired.
Shurmur is here for at least another full season. IMO
Let's simply look at the draw play on 3rd and 20 and going for it on 4th and 15 deep in our territory:
- the score was 24 - 21. We need at least a FG. Field position is just as important as time on the clock. If we punt there is a 35 to 50 yard difference in field position when AZ gets the ball. We would still have 2 time outs and the 2 minute warning at our disposal.
But we went for it, didn't get it. Stopped AZ and they kicked the field goal but now we need a TD with no time outs left. And to make matters worse Slayton comes out of the endzone and screws us on time and field position.
That is all coaching. The decision making ability of our coaches is just not good enough to give our young team with inferior talent a chance to win. The coach must put his players in a position to succeed. Shurmur does not do this.
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if he leaves, but if he can expedite the learning curve for DJ, that will have to be enough, imv.
Agreed but if the ownership decides that Shurmur is gone. What happens if it opens a Arizona situation where a new head coach comes in and doesn't want Jones. He decides that he wants his guy and then wants to make a play for one of the guys coming out?
Not saying Jones is doing a bad job but if the new guy wants (insert name <here>) Then what?
Or worse they can Shurmur and then are having to hire a guy from a potentially smaller pool because the ownership has decided to keep Jones. The replacement could end up being worse than Shurmur. Let's be honest it is not like people were lining up for the job when Shurmur was hired.
Shurmur is here for at least another full season. IMO
Any new guy who takes over will KNOW that DJ is the future. That, the prospective HC will have to accept that or not take the job.
the once chance in 5 that PS gets booted this offseason:
1) we finish with less than 7 wins
-AND-
2) some stud college coach comes knocking
(Saban, Urban, Lincoln, Shaw)
that's it. otherwise, the grass is greener won't be persuasive.
Just ridiculous how everyone is on this guys ass about 4th down calls. Not to mention other BS like when to call time out and when to challenge.
5 wins probably keeps him around.
Gettleman and Shurmur should be a package deal IMV. Keep both or get rid of both.
He has made some game mistakes a coach with his experience should not make. That said, I don't know how many games he's win with this roster anyway.
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In comment 14639188 Big Blue '56 said:
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if he leaves, but if he can expedite the learning curve for DJ, that will have to be enough, imv.
Agreed but if the ownership decides that Shurmur is gone. What happens if it opens a Arizona situation where a new head coach comes in and doesn't want Jones. He decides that he wants his guy and then wants to make a play for one of the guys coming out?
Not saying Jones is doing a bad job but if the new guy wants (insert name <here>) Then what?
Or worse they can Shurmur and then are having to hire a guy from a potentially smaller pool because the ownership has decided to keep Jones. The replacement could end up being worse than Shurmur. Let's be honest it is not like people were lining up for the job when Shurmur was hired.
Shurmur is here for at least another full season. IMO
Any new guy who takes over will KNOW that DJ is the future. That, the prospective HC will have to accept that or not take the job.
LOL. Wow some rookie who played on a shit team and didn't do much in college or the pros really has you creaming in your shorts.
I don't think a rookie has that kind of pull especially one without any kind of Mahomes like first year.
Shurmur's had a lot more resources spent on that offense than on Bettcher's D. He had the #2 overall pick in last year's draft, the obscene amount of money paid to make Solder OLT, Hernandez, Golden Tate, etc.
Bettcher's D had been stripped down and very little was added back, though what little was added hasn't exactly impressed to date.
In comment 14639262 V.I.G. said:
the once chance in 5 that PS gets booted this offseason:
1) we finish with less than 7 wins
-AND-
2) some stud college coach comes knocking
(Saban, Urban, Lincoln, Shaw)
that's it. otherwise, the grass is greener won't be persuasive.
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In comment 14639220 Scott in Montreal said:
Quote:
In comment 14639188 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
if he leaves, but if he can expedite the learning curve for DJ, that will have to be enough, imv.
Agreed but if the ownership decides that Shurmur is gone. What happens if it opens a Arizona situation where a new head coach comes in and doesn't want Jones. He decides that he wants his guy and then wants to make a play for one of the guys coming out?
Not saying Jones is doing a bad job but if the new guy wants (insert name <here>) Then what?
Or worse they can Shurmur and then are having to hire a guy from a potentially smaller pool because the ownership has decided to keep Jones. The replacement could end up being worse than Shurmur. Let's be honest it is not like people were lining up for the job when Shurmur was hired.
Shurmur is here for at least another full season. IMO
Any new guy who takes over will KNOW that DJ is the future. That, the prospective HC will have to accept that or not take the job.
LOL. Wow some rookie who played on a shit team and didn't do much in college or the pros really has you creaming in your shorts.
I don't think a rookie has that kind of pull especially one without any kind of Mahomes like first year.
10/19er. Get lost troll.
There are still nine games to go but if we finish 5-11 again I don’t see Shurmur returning
Then not punting yesterday and using a senseless TO at the 4 minute mark.
The issue is, when the team does get to the point of contending, is he going to still HURT the team with dumb decision making.
Someone should really write a book on clock management, with simply steps on what to do. Similar to the 2 point conversion chart. A guide to help these guys. For all the sitting around and talking football, they really are clueless..............
...would entertain letting (Pat Shurmur) go after this season?
Are you kidding me?
He's out at the end of THIS season.
The norm for Giants coaches has actually been two consecutive leading seasons before getting a pink slip
Hopefully they don’t make the same mistake of hiring Shula or another WCO disciple as head coach to ensure continuity for Jones
The norm for Giants coaches has actually been two consecutive leading seasons before getting a pink slip
Hopefully they don’t make the same mistake of hiring Shula or another WCO disciple as head coach to ensure continuity for Jones
I think the last HC we fired at midseason was Arnsparger after his 0-7 (?) start
I’m not getting this feeling at all. The ship looks like it’s bobbing listlessly on the waters. But let’s see where this goes.
I’m not getting this feeling at all. The ship looks like it’s bobbing listlessly on the waters. But let’s see where this goes.
Reasonable post, per usual.
I wasn't that upset with the draw play on 3rd and 18, especially if he was planning on going for it on 4th down. But when the draw failed so miserably, you have to punt.
Then he acted like a douche during his post game press conference. Sorry--but he doesn't have the coaching resume for that. Belichick can get away with it. Shurmur can't.
I would hate to see another coaching change so soon, but Shurmur just doesn't give me confidence that he's the guy who can right the ship.
I would like to think that the Giants organization can do better, but the way things are going, the next coach will probably be worse.
It could just be that Shurmur is a good OC and not a good HC
It's actually a very impressive record when the you consider that he actually won 9 games in two seasons with Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, and Brandon Weeden (in his rookie year) as his starting QBs, coaching what was probably the worst roster in the NFL in both of those seasons, and his season last year with Eli Manning, who was on his last legs, yet still showed a lot of improvement, coaching another team whose talent-level was stripped bare by the prior regime.
If this guy can win 14 games with the '14 and '15 Browns and the '18 Giants, he's not the problem. Those teams shouldn't win ANY games, except maybe 1 or 2 a season at best.
People are overreacting to the situation here. We're just seeing a team in transition, that WILL get better. I don't think Shurmur's the problem.
I’m not getting this feeling at all. The ship looks like it’s bobbing listlessly on the waters. But let’s see where this goes.
Who? Who quit? I didn't see any of that on the field. I thought the team competed hard for 4 quarters. And most people aren't even talking about how if Rosas makes a FG he should make, the whole game changes. We don't have to go for it on 4th down because the game is tied, we give ourselves a chance to play field position and have our defense make a play to get ourselves the ball back with a chance to win the game.
Of course, the defense DID give our team the ball back with a chance to win, and a combination of the OL collapsing and Jones holding the ball too long proved fatal. But there's no way someone can convince me guys were quitting or mailing it in. Name names. It's a serious indictment of the players and one I think is egregiously wrong.
I know we always say, "this is the way the Mara family and the Giants work" about not firing coaches too quickly. Well, the McAdoo firing proved things can change.
Sports are much different than in the old days. Social media pressure and backlash from the fan base and media is a very real thing. That pressure is huge on a franchise when it comes to money and support.
IF the Giants finish 5-11 or worse, I think Shurmur is done.
There are still nine games to go but if we finish 5-11 again I don’t see Shurmur returning
What 5 games are we going to win?
right now we're looking at maybe beating Miami
I’m not accusing any player of cowardice (except for DeAndre Baker who should donate his paycheck to this teammates). The demolition of Remmers and Solder in the second half indicates they were losing intensity as the day wore on. The rushing attack in general was less effective in the second half and even less effective in the 4th quarter. It looked like the team was getting progressively more demoralized as the day went on.
If this season continues down this same path, my prediction, Gettleman moves on from him.
Exactly ! Problem is the Maras and DG for picking him .
He did well with the Vikings who had a top defense and still do
My issues with DG relate to the talent on this team
O Line
1) Solder is terrible
2) Remmers is terrible
3) He drafted one Guard in the 2nd rd and another in the 7th
4) Zeitler has been mmeh - maybe the Browns knew something
WRs
1) No, not OBJ - he got good value for an oft injured WR
2) It's that he replaces OBJ with cast offs and injury bugs
3) While killing us in the cap this year
Front 7
1) Ogletree was a terrible trade
2) Martin was a god awful signing
3) Pierre was a god awful signing
Secondary
1) Bethea may be a top 10 worst signing in franchise history
Draft
1) Spend a 4th on Lauletta
2) Don't trade down from '18 #2 -
3) Spend #2 on a generational RB - that's the rebuilding last piece, not the first
4) McIntosh hasn't played above his draft round
5) Hill hasn't played above his draft round
6) Carter hasn't played above his draft round
7) Love hasn't played a snap
So as I look at what this team needs going forward
LT
RT
WR
ER (once Golden signs elsewhere)
DT (once he lets Tomlinson walk)
FS
CB
Slot
LB
I still see plenty of holes. So no DG does not get a pass.
But maybe you can tell me why I'm wrong. Please use empty substance, hot take terms like generational, franchise, trenches, and hog mollie.
It's actually a very impressive record when the you consider that he actually won 9 games in two seasons with Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, and Brandon Weeden (in his rookie year) as his starting QBs, coaching what was probably the worst roster in the NFL in both of those seasons, and his season last year with Eli Manning, who was on his last legs, yet still showed a lot of improvement, coaching another team whose talent-level was stripped bare by the prior regime.
bravo, +1