Someone posted a stat here to the effect that teams with a ton of dead cap space (as the Giants have) rarely do well, and in fact frequently do pretty badly. Add to that the fact that we have $20-plus million tied up in a backup quarterback. What does that all equal? A team that has a severe shortage of talent.
Without Eli's contract and the dead money issues next year, plus another draft class, the roster should be much improved next year. But all of this criticism of playcalling, etc. wouldn't be arising if our roster wasn't so goddamned shitty. DG and Shurmur need at least another year to right the ship full of steaming feces that Reese, Ross et al left them.
Not running enough and turnovers.
And - #1 leads directly to #2.
Bad play calls.
Bad use of challenges
Bad use of personnel
Bad use of field position
Bad use of clock management
Bad use of time outs
It is something different each week.
This is a young team that needs to be put in a position to succeed. Shurmur and Bettcher are not getting it done enough.
GM and coaching staff have shown nothing so far.
Only the record matters you have been trained to accept losing
As bad as yesterday was, this OL is unquestionably an improvement over the days of Bobby Hart and Ereck Flowers. Which is scary and proof of what a terrible situation PS and DG came into.
Continuing to blame the past for current incompetence will only result in more incompetence.
This...I expect to see some improvement. granted we didn't give up 40 points, but our defense is awful as is our OL. Not sure of the solution other than upgrading players and coaches, maybe blitz more? Mass protect DJ more? Something...I believe Betcher is a very wink link in our coaches. Shurmur not too far behind.
People need to give Giants fans a little bit more credit around here. We arent expecting greatness immediately or to make the playoffs this year. We are expecting a competently run team that would appear to be going in the right direction. We just got our asses handed to us by a team flying across the country for a 1 pm game in our stadium that was barely half full.
At the same time, when a team that just cut bait on a coach and a top 10 draft pick in the same offseason travels across country for an early game, you would hope that the team would have a chance to stand out a bit, and at least see a few players start to show growth and development.
Instead, the word of the day was 'regression'. Did I mention they had 10 days to prepare?
Aaron Sorkin
May 2012
Aaron Sorkin
May 2012
Great quote, and completely applicable to the Giants. The organization, the players, and the fans have become very comfortable with losing.
People need to give Giants fans a little bit more credit around here. We arent expecting greatness immediately or to make the playoffs this year. We are expecting a competently run team that would appear to be going in the right direction. We just got our asses handed to us by a team flying across the country for a 1 pm game in our stadium that was barely half full.
They lost 27-21, not 41-0, and had a chance to win at the end. That's not "embarrassed" or getting "our asses handed to us." If this team had more than third-string linebackers, for instance, no one is complaining about a lot of these things and a backup RB is not looking like Walter Payton.
The 49ers were 4-12 last year and 6-0 this year with the same coaching staff. You're telling me that last year, everyone was saying what a great coaching staff they had and what a great job they did?
People on BBI are going overboard. When you have tens of millions of dollars tied up in dead money and a backup QB, that's a ton of money that can't be used on talent.
Shurmur challenged the PI call despite the fact that less than 5% of PI challenges have actually been reversed. (He should know this stat and stop wasting TOs with non-winnnable challenges.)
He called a run play on 3rd and 18 and then went for it on 4th and 15 from his own territory (about the 30 yd line?) when he should have punted.
Shumur also called a timeout with 4:38 left and didn't instruct Slayton to stay in the endzone on the KO, even though Slayton's chances of getting past the 25 yd line without incurring a holding penalty are far less than just accepting the touchback. (It cost 12 yrds of field position and 9 valuable seconds.)
And in his presser after the game Shumur let everyone know that he thought all those decisions were the right ones. In other words...he do them all over again if the opportunity arose.
So not everything can be blamed on cap issues (dead money) and a poor roster.
The 49ers were 4-12 last year and 6-0 this year with the same coaching staff. You're telling me that last year, everyone was saying what a great coaching staff they had and what a great job they did?
They were 4-12 last year - how many games in did they lose their starting QB?
I'd get some more batteries for your excuse machine, it's not going to last at this rate.
Ah yes, the coveted "Good Try!" Award.
The game was at home. They were playing a West Coast team that was even worse than they were last season. They had ten days to prepare for this game.
All the Brasso in the world isn't enough to polish this turd.
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DG and Shurmur need at least another year to right the ship full of steaming feces that Reese, Ross et al left them.
Continuing to blame the past for current incompetence will only result in more incompetence.
+1 This is DGs team, no more excuses
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They lost 27-21, not 41-0, and had a chance to win at the end. That's not "embarrassed" or getting "our asses handed to us."
Ah yes, the coveted "Good Try!" Award.
The game was at home. They were playing a West Coast team that was even worse than they were last season. They had ten days to prepare for this game.
All the Brasso in the world isn't enough to polish this turd.
Again - that's losing a game, not being "embarrassed" or "getting our asses handed to us."
People are so miserable around here.
If you want to hang your hat on the fact that the home loss to the lousy Cardinals team wasn't a total blowout, and pretend that's some kind of moral victory, then be my guest.
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less and less from each other, and that's gotta' change.
Aaron Sorkin
May 2012
Great quote, and completely applicable to the Giants. The organization, the players, and the fans have become very comfortable with losing.
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has been substantial in money and draft picks. I expected more than allowing 8 sacks to the Cardinals.
As bad as yesterday was, this OL is unquestionably an improvement over the days of Bobby Hart and Ereck Flowers. Which is scary and proof of what a terrible situation PS and DG came into.
while it *may* be an improvement, is it really a significant improvement for that investment.
Solder's Contract
2nd rnder
dumping brett jones
a top 15/20/25? edge usher (vernon)
big investment, for little incremental improvement
Again - that's losing a game, not being "embarrassed" or "getting our asses handed to us."
People are so miserable around here.
Let's do a refresher course:
-- Arizona was without David Johnson after one carry in the game due to an ankle injury. They then turned to a RB from Fordham.
-- Christian Kirk, one of their better WRs, was out with an injury.
-- They have a rookie QB playing behind one of the worst OLs in the league. And that QB isn't tall enough to ride most of the rides at Great Adventure.
-- The Arizona D was 28th in the league in PPG at 28.5. They were a sieve.
-- We were HOME.
-- The Cards played at 1pm, EST, four time zones away from home.
-- Their rookie HC Kliff Kingsbury had a 35-40 as a HC in college.
-- We were the favorite.
Yet, you want some moral victory after losing to all of the above.
dont forget Gruden's f you salute to Snyder putting in Dan's guy to spite him and really hand that game over to us.
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theres a difference between managing expectations and then getting embarrassed by the Arizona Cardinals (in their current state) at home, without any semblance of good coaching at all.
People need to give Giants fans a little bit more credit around here. We arent expecting greatness immediately or to make the playoffs this year. We are expecting a competently run team that would appear to be going in the right direction. We just got our asses handed to us by a team flying across the country for a 1 pm game in our stadium that was barely half full.
They lost 27-21, not 41-0, and had a chance to win at the end. That's not "embarrassed" or getting "our asses handed to us." If this team had more than third-string linebackers, for instance, no one is complaining about a lot of these things and a backup RB is not looking like Walter Payton.
The 49ers were 4-12 last year and 6-0 this year with the same coaching staff. You're telling me that last year, everyone was saying what a great coaching staff they had and what a great job they did?
People on BBI are going overboard. When you have tens of millions of dollars tied up in dead money and a backup QB, that's a ton of money that can't be used on talent.
Coughlin had the Giants more competitive game to game in 15 with less talent. Just about every loss that year was a one score loss and he put the players in a position to win the game each week. The players couldnt close the deal but they were right there. Thats good coaching.
This team looked completely outclassed in losses to Dallas and Minny. They looked like they didnt even put an offensive gameplan together for Buffalo and New England. Yesterday they looked completely unprepared on both sides of the ball at home vs an inferior opponent. Thats poor coaching.
After yesterday Ive seen enough with this garbage staff. If they need a roster riddled with plus players to win in this league they arent worth a shit. Good coaching can win you multiple games in a given year. Theres no edge with this staff theyre losing this team games.
if not for a historically bad defense, the 2015 team in coughlins last year was competitive to the end outside of 1 or 2 games where they were blown out. that team also was able to score points offensively. something they've barely been able to do since coughlin was forced to resign.
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less and less from each other, and that's gotta' change.
Aaron Sorkin
May 2012
Great quote, and completely applicable to the Giants. The organization, the players, and the fans have become very comfortable with losing.
Well, at least my expectations are so low at this point, I don't get all riled up about a game like this at this point. I'm not grumpy the rest of the day like I used to be after a bad loss.
Now its like, oh well, I knew they sucked anyway.
That's not to say, that I'm not disappointed in general and want more. I just know not to expect it from this crew.
And then when he is still blowing games with poor decisions with a talented roster decide then is the time to cut bait with him?
Regardless of the talent level, you can see Shurmur is not the answer. We got out-coached by a team with less talent, so yeah coaching plays a big part.
Why do you think the Colts are doing so well? Because Reich is a good coach. Did anyone give them a chance with their entire secondary out against the Chiefs? Nope, but good coaching can overcome talent to a certain degree.
We don't have either, but we don't have to wait to have talent to know Shurmur isn't the answer.
Maybe they will win a couple, but it doesn't matter. The team's players and its coaches seem bottom of the barrel in talent and will to win. Slow, weak, and inept is what we have now. Plus we have two big contracts out there to a useless LT and a fading RG. As if we had LBs and all the rest we don't have.
I'd feel better if I thought we were brilliant or at least good at evaluating player personnel -- for draft purposes and FA. But, once again, I think we are the worst at it I've ever seen for the Giants. (Yes, memories of the '70s and '80s have faded -- but were we this bad then?)
I am going to try hard not to lose my mind and TV controller (age 78 this year) before we get a new play-off-worthy Giants football team back under a competent coach. I don't see that on the near-term event horizon. But every glimmer of it being possible thrills me. I see just about zero on this meter so far this year.
Greg...you have been a miserable sack of shit around here for weeks.
Peppers isn't a bad player. Bethea is a stop gap. remmers is light years better that our RTs the last 5 years. Ogletree isn't THAT bad. He probably isn't part of the future anyways. You are going to totally ignore his two good drafts? Golden? Zeitler? He has done a solid job. This roster was a joke a couple years ago. Give him another draft and some actual money to spend this off-season. If he sucks then, I'll join you leading the pocket line outside metlife
remmers is making 1.12 million this year. not a big contract
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Plus we have two big contracts out there to a useless LT and a fading RG.
remmers is making 1.12 million this year. not a big contract
I never mentioned Remmers (who is not so hot, though), but our RG, Zeitler, who's making 2.5 mill. Do we have more expensive people who aren't worth sh*t? Yes: Jenkins, Ogletree, Ellison, and our super-costly backup, Eli (who gets a pass).
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In comment 14639662 Percy said:
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Plus we have two big contracts out there to a useless LT and a fading RG.
remmers is making 1.12 million this year. not a big contract
I never mentioned Remmers (who is not so hot, though), but our RG, Zeitler, who's making 2.5 mill. Do we have more expensive people who aren't worth sh*t? Yes: Jenkins, Ogletree, Ellison, and our super-costly backup, Eli (who gets a pass).
my bad, you said RG. but, ogletree has played good ball the last two weeks. he was one of the only defenders who played hard v the cardinals. is he all pro? no, but he's not bad out there. their other best ILB, who gettleman drafted, is on IR. zeitler is playing through an injury.
Not necessarily! We will likely have a chance to draft one of the top 3 QB prospects this coming draft. If it is clear that the prospect has a ton of potential and is a better fit for the new HC's offense, taking that QB should be an option.
The roster's still a joke. What's new? And it's not like he's been trying to build a roster without resources. They're tight on cap because of the palyers he signed. Nobody had a gun to his head for Solder or Ogletree.
You can call it what you will, and I will agree to disagree. That game was a shitshow, despite their heart and desire, coaching performance included.
You can only make so many excuses for the poor weather, the poor mental focus, the poor tackling, the poor effort show in setting the edge, tackling, being AWARE of the action around you in game, the poor coaching staff and being outcoached on a weekly basis.
It's great they played hard and didn't quit. And yet, they helped greatly in beating themselves (again) the coaches included.
Ultimately, many posters in this thread get it. The coaching staff is failing. The roster's talent level etc is a work in progress and rough moments and a lack of linear progress are to be expected. But, the rudder on gameday is severely under-powered.
Except that the Jets lost to the defending SB champs, and the Giants lost to a team coming off a 3-win season.
I wanted Shurmur, but he has, to date, been an enormous disappointment. He doesn't have the ability to motivate, and his game decisions are head-scratching. I think, with more talent, his scheme works, but that makes him a good OC, not a good HC.
You can only make so many excuses for the poor weather, the poor mental focus, the poor tackling, the poor effort show in setting the edge, tackling, being AWARE of the action around you in game, the poor coaching staff and being outcoached on a weekly basis.
It's great they played hard and didn't quit. And yet, they helped greatly in beating themselves (again) the coaches included.
Ultimately, many posters in this thread get it. The coaching staff is failing. The roster's talent level etc is a work in progress and rough moments and a lack of linear progress are to be expected. But, the rudder on gameday is severely under-powered.