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Did anyone hear Mike Tannenbaum on ESPN Radio this a.m.?

lawguy9801 : 10/21/2019 5:29 pm
Said that while Jones "can move around in the pocket a little," he's not accurate on deep balls just as at Duke.

I'm sorry, but are he and I watching the same games (if he's even watching at all)? Yes, he fumbles too much, we all know that, but I've been very impressed by Jones's accuracy at all levels and his ability to get the ball into covered receivers. His long throw to Engram down the right side was right on the money, and Engram simply dropped it. That may look on the stat sheet like a 10-yard overthrow to someone who didn't watch the game, but to me his comments reeked of someone who had a low opinion of Jones and doesn't want to be proven wrong.

Or do I have rose-colored glasses?
perhaps you are a bit defensive?  
mdc1 : 10/21/2019 5:39 pm : link
Jones has not been very good for the last several games. All the highlight reel throws do not make up for the fumbling, ints, and lack of pocket presence. He is a growing rookie and I think many have "anointed" him to quickly as Parcells used to say. We need to see what we have and whether he will stop doing this rookie things or else I am seriously looking at much better QB talent in the upcoming draft.
No qb has perfect accuracy on every throw, but Jones is very accurate.  
Ira : 10/21/2019 5:42 pm : link
It's true that he has his problems, but accuracy on deep balls isn't one of them.
RE: perhaps you are a bit defensive?  
Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) : 10/21/2019 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14639469 mdc1 said:
Quote:
Jones has not been very good for the last several games. All the highlight reel throws do not make up for the fumbling, ints, and lack of pocket presence. He is a growing rookie and I think many have "anointed" him to quickly as Parcells used to say. We need to see what we have and whether he will stop doing this rookie things or else I am seriously looking at much better QB talent in the upcoming draft.


Everything you just said has nothing to do with the question he asked about downfield throws lol

Not sure what film this guys is reviewing, DJs downfield throws are the least of his problems.
Sounds like someone fed him his numbers deep and ran with it  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/21/2019 5:47 pm : link
Without thinking about context. There's things to knock DJ for but his accuracy isn't one of them.
RE: RE: perhaps you are a bit defensive?  
mdc1 : 10/21/2019 5:51 pm : link
In comment 14639477 Kevin(formerly Tiki4Six) said:
Quote:
In comment 14639469 mdc1 said:


Quote:


Jones has not been very good for the last several games. All the highlight reel throws do not make up for the fumbling, ints, and lack of pocket presence. He is a growing rookie and I think many have "anointed" him to quickly as Parcells used to say. We need to see what we have and whether he will stop doing this rookie things or else I am seriously looking at much better QB talent in the upcoming draft.



Everything you just said has nothing to do with the question he asked about downfield throws lol

Not sure what film this guys is reviewing, DJs downfield throws are the least of his problems.


Let me address that too, he has overthrown receivers quite a bit lately, go back and look at the tape. Thanks for asking.
Probably the stance he took pre-draft  
bceagle05 : 10/21/2019 5:52 pm : link
and now he's clinging to it. Another guy who gets to pretend he knows football because he was near Belichick for a while.
I'm more concerned....  
bw in dc : 10/21/2019 5:52 pm : link
about Jones's footwork lately. Apparently that was one of his biggest assets.

Need a real tune-up there...
accuracy is not his problem....  
George from PA : 10/21/2019 5:54 pm : link
But we do need to see better ball security. And better decision making...fumbles and INT rate is not acceptable
RE: perhaps you are a bit defensive?  
joeinpa : 10/21/2019 5:55 pm : link
In comment 14639469 mdc1 said:
Quote:
We need to see what we have and whether he will stop doing this rookie things or else I am seriously looking at much better QB talent in the upcoming draft.


Seriously? You know this how?
RE: RE: perhaps you are a bit defensive?  
mdc1 : 10/21/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14639502 joeinpa said:
Quote:
In comment 14639469 mdc1 said:


Quote:


We need to see what we have and whether he will stop doing this rookie things or else I am seriously looking at much better QB talent in the upcoming draft.



Seriously? You know this how?


Whether the Giants stick with Jones is their decision, but you have to be out your mind to believe he is better than what is coming in the next draft. Seriously? better mobility, better athletes, better arms. etc. Winners get better, loser keep doing the same fuckery over and over again,
It was good that..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/21/2019 6:01 pm : link
Ellison bailed him out on that 5-yard pass and took it to the house for a TD.

It isn't like he caught a perfect ball splitting three defenders.
His biggest issue is  
MotownGIANTS : 10/21/2019 6:02 pm : link
pocket presence, internal clock and ball security. He does try to force it at times experience and wisdom will correct those.

Also once we complete part 2 of the OL rebuild and get a true #1 WR the O will be way more efficient and effective.
You make due with what you have  
idiotsavant : 10/21/2019 6:05 pm : link
Murray:

might be -uniquely- good in the pocket .. and uniquely good at open running .. and a hell of a passer. First overall, correct?

Jones:

looks fast and tough in the open field . and throws a nice ball, but not great in the pocket so far, not Montana footwork wise certainly not Murray footwork wise. But not bad either:


Jones:

A better, more accurate, faster taller version of Matt Ryan? That's not terrible!

One more reason to include quick east/west action, zone blocking and lots of designed qb runs and roll outs. Shanny stuff. Which seems easier in the OL also.

Lots of designed counter roll outs and
QB runs.
Jones Was Very Accurate Yesterday  
Giants38 : 10/21/2019 6:15 pm : link
Against Minnesota, he may have missed a pass or two, but yesterday, I thought his passes were pretty much on target. In fact, I thought he fit a few in very tight windows.

His issue - as has been raised several times already - it's the complete inability to hold on to the football that is his issue.
jones  
Archer : 10/21/2019 6:15 pm : link
How is it possible to evaluate a QB when he has no time to throw the ball, his receivers are not getting separation, and there is no running game?

It is more apparent when you at the game. Jones is playing with one hand tied behind his back.
His receivers are blanketed. Statistically he leads the league in tight window completions.

the fact that there is not a dedicated QB coach  
japanhead : 10/21/2019 6:17 pm : link
on this staff is frankly unbelievable to me. it is just shocking how something that basic could fall through the cracks. as if the giants have maxed out with good coaching. the ineptitude seems boundless.
RE: jones  
japanhead : 10/21/2019 6:21 pm : link
In comment 14639529 Archer said:
Quote:
How is it possible to evaluate a QB when he has no time to throw the ball, his receivers are not getting separation, and there is no running game?

It is more apparent when you at the game. Jones is playing with one hand tied behind his back.
His receivers are blanketed. Statistically he leads the league in tight window completions.


you didn't see him sitting there patting the ball for like 4-8 seconds multiple times? he had time to throw, and outside of the tail end of the 4th quarter when shurmur put him in horrible situations repeatedly, the line was not as bad as some are making it out to be. their worst performance of the season, to be sure. the problem was no one was open and he wouldn't check down or throw it away. he's pressing to make a play, and in the process turning the ball over a lot, often in comically dumb fashion.
"I am...looking at much better QB talent in the upcoming draft"  
BillT : 10/21/2019 6:43 pm : link
You'll be the only one.
RE: jones  
Bruner4329 : 10/21/2019 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14639529 Archer said:
Quote:
How is it possible to evaluate a QB when he has no time to throw the ball, his receivers are not getting separation, and there is no running game?



Funny! People had no problem throwing Eli to the wolves when he had no line and no WR support the last 5 years.
BBI  
charlito : 10/21/2019 6:50 pm : link
Hates the DJ pick.Then they love him. Now they're looking at QBs in the upcoming draft for the Giants🤦‍♂️
RE: It was good that..  
mattlawson : 10/21/2019 6:52 pm : link
In comment 14639509 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
Ellison bailed him out on that 5-yard pass and took it to the house for a TD.

It isn't like he caught a perfect ball splitting three defenders.



Picking up your sarcasm
RE: RE: jones  
BigBlueShock : 10/21/2019 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14639555 Bruner4329 said:
Quote:
In comment 14639529 Archer said:


Quote:


How is it possible to evaluate a QB when he has no time to throw the ball, his receivers are not getting separation, and there is no running game?





Funny! People had no problem throwing Eli to the wolves when he had no line and no WR support the last 5 years.

A 15 year vet making $23 Million versus a rookie making only 5 career starts? Even the most diehard Eli fans should be embarrassed by making that comparison. I sure as hell hope youd expect more from a future Hall of Famer making that kind of money than a rookie just getting his feet wet in a completely new environment. But then again, nothing surprises me on this site anymore.
Eli  
Simms : 10/21/2019 7:01 pm : link
Was not the solution nor the problem, yet people are shocked at Jones woes.
RE: Eli  
BigBlueShock : 10/21/2019 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14639574 Simms said:
Quote:
Was not the solution nor the problem, yet people are shocked at Jones woes.

The problem is, Giants fans have zero idea how to separate THE problem with being PART of the problem. Eli was absolutely has been PART of the problem. Just as Jones has been part of the problem. But again, one I a rookie and one is a 15 year vet making $23 Million.

If you dont believe Eli has been part of the problem the past 6 seasons you should take up another hobby because you have no idea what youre watching. And Im speaking in general, not directly at the poster Im replying to here.
eli was not the problem  
japanhead : 10/21/2019 7:21 pm : link
for the past six seasons. the past three at most. for example, he was playing really well in 2015: i think he had like 35 TDs that year. it was the historically bad defense that caused them to go 6-10 that year, not eli. remember after coughlin was fired, reese went on a defensive spending spree in free agency in 2016 and that team made the playoffs, where eli was throwing lasers all over the field in lambau as his receivers dropped everything in sight? shit on eli if you really must, but don't exaggerate his decline.
Hehe Charlito for the win  
idiotsavant : 10/21/2019 7:22 pm : link
Hehehe. Spot on.
RE: eli was not the problem  
Thunderstruck27 : 10/21/2019 7:28 pm : link
In comment 14639597 japanhead said:
Quote:
for the past six seasons. the past three at most. for example, he was playing really well in 2015: i think he had like 35 TDs that year. it was the historically bad defense that caused them to go 6-10 that year, not eli. remember after coughlin was fired, reese went on a defensive spending spree in free agency in 2016 and that team made the playoffs, where eli was throwing lasers all over the field in lambau as his receivers dropped everything in sight? shit on eli if you really must, but don't exaggerate his decline.


Again you fail to address the fact that Eli, while not the worst player on the field, is responsible for over 20 million in cap space. That's money that could used to sign high end talent. Eli at this point is not better than Daniel Jones. Your argument is moot.
RE: eli was not the problem  
BigBlueShock : 10/21/2019 7:31 pm : link
In comment 14639597 japanhead said:
Quote:
for the past six seasons. the past three at most. for example, he was playing really well in 2015: i think he had like 35 TDs that year. it was the historically bad defense that caused them to go 6-10 that year, not eli. remember after coughlin was fired, reese went on a defensive spending spree in free agency in 2016 and that team made the playoffs, where eli was throwing lasers all over the field in lambau as his receivers dropped everything in sight? shit on eli if you really must, but don't exaggerate his decline.

Clown. Its shitting on Eli to say hes been a part of the problem? This is why we cant reason with guys like you. You instantly turn it into people saying he is THE problem, which you just said right after I made crystal fucking clear thats not what I was saying. This team has been the laughingstock of the league for the better part of six seasons and guess what, Eli has been the QB through all of it.

And for record, I absolutely love Eli. Hes a legend and Ill always remember him as such. But its time some of you wake up. Eli defenders werent going to accept anything less than an undefeated, perfect season from Jones. At the slightest bit of struggles, youd scream and shout and say see! It wasnt all Eli!!!!. Which is ridiculous because no one ever said it was ALL Eli and also killing a rookie getting his first taste of NFL and using it to prop up Eli is pathetic. And embarrassing for you.
Shemur's bad coaching isn't adversely affecting  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/21/2019 7:48 pm : link
Jones accuracy on long balls. His bad coaching is affecting his inability to throw tough passes away from defenders and holding on to the ball too long.

Bad things happen when you hold on to the ball for 2.8 seconds.
RE: eli was not the problem  
BBelle21 : 10/21/2019 8:10 pm : link
In comment 14639597 japanhead said:
Quote:
for the past six seasons. the past three at most. for example, he was playing really well in 2015: i think he had like 35 TDs that year. it was the historically bad defense that caused them to go 6-10 that year, not eli. remember after coughlin was fired, reese went on a defensive spending spree in free agency in 2016 and that team made the playoffs, where eli was throwing lasers all over the field in lambau as his receivers dropped everything in sight? shit on eli if you really must, but don't exaggerate his decline.


Well said
I'm still pissed how this FO totally bungled  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/21/2019 8:12 pm : link
the back 9 of Eli's career. Just football malpractice. Oh well, that ship has sailed.
The next contract Engram is given  
Ike#88 : 10/21/2019 8:15 pm : link
has to penalize him for drops. I would go with $5000 for each one. If he won't sign then see you later. He is and has a PROBLEM that is hurting the team.
RE: I'm still pissed how this FO totally bungled  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 10/21/2019 8:18 pm : link
In comment 14639657 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
the back 9 of Eli's career. Just football malpractice. Oh well, that ship has sailed.

I'm ticked off Giants ass canned the guy who brought us Manning and Warren Moon, by far our best OC.
RE: RE: eli was not the problem  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/21/2019 8:22 pm : link
In comment 14639607 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14639597 japanhead said:


Quote:


for the past six seasons. the past three at most. for example, he was playing really well in 2015: i think he had like 35 TDs that year. it was the historically bad defense that caused them to go 6-10 that year, not eli. remember after coughlin was fired, reese went on a defensive spending spree in free agency in 2016 and that team made the playoffs, where eli was throwing lasers all over the field in lambau as his receivers dropped everything in sight? shit on eli if you really must, but don't exaggerate his decline.


Clown. Its shitting on Eli to say hes been a part of the problem? This is why we cant reason with guys like you. You instantly turn it into people saying he is THE problem, which you just said right after I made crystal fucking clear thats not what I was saying. This team has been the laughingstock of the league for the better part of six seasons and guess what, Eli has been the QB through all of it.

And for record, I absolutely love Eli. Hes a legend and Ill always remember him as such. But its time some of you wake up. Eli defenders werent going to accept anything less than an undefeated, perfect season from Jones. At the slightest bit of struggles, youd scream and shout and say see! It wasnt all Eli!!!!. Which is ridiculous because no one ever said it was ALL Eli and also killing a rookie getting his first taste of NFL and using it to prop up Eli is pathetic. And embarrassing for you.


Well said. Only and idiot would say the QB wasn't one of the issues over the past 6 seasons.
RE: Shemur's bad coaching isn't adversely affecting  
alb345Tx : 10/21/2019 8:32 pm : link
In comment 14639625 Coach Red Beaulieu said:
Quote:
Jones accuracy on long balls. His bad coaching is affecting his inability to throw tough passes away from defenders and holding on to the ball too long.

Bad things happen when you hold on to the ball for 2.8 seconds.

2.8 seconds is too damn long for this team, for sure. OTOH, there are QB's who are holding on to the ball even longer -- Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, Baker Mayfield, Russell Wilson & Josh Allen among others.

4 of the top worst receivers in the NFL for separation when catching the ball or not completed are NY Giants. The only Giant WR significantly better than that is Sterling Shepard and he's out indefinitely. (Next Gen stats)

Jones needs to hold on to the damn ball when he's hit, that's for sure, plus throw it away quicker. But 8 sacks against the Cards is a disgrace and that's a team problem.
RE: RE: eli was not the problem  
japanhead : 10/21/2019 8:46 pm : link
In comment 14639607 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 14639597 japanhead said:


Quote:


for the past six seasons. the past three at most. for example, he was playing really well in 2015: i think he had like 35 TDs that year. it was the historically bad defense that caused them to go 6-10 that year, not eli. remember after coughlin was fired, reese went on a defensive spending spree in free agency in 2016 and that team made the playoffs, where eli was throwing lasers all over the field in lambau as his receivers dropped everything in sight? shit on eli if you really must, but don't exaggerate his decline.


Clown. Its shitting on Eli to say hes been a part of the problem? This is why we cant reason with guys like you. You instantly turn it into people saying he is THE problem, which you just said right after I made crystal fucking clear thats not what I was saying. This team has been the laughingstock of the league for the better part of six seasons and guess what, Eli has been the QB through all of it.

And for record, I absolutely love Eli. Hes a legend and Ill always remember him as such. But its time some of you wake up. Eli defenders werent going to accept anything less than an undefeated, perfect season from Jones. At the slightest bit of struggles, youd scream and shout and say see! It wasnt all Eli!!!!. Which is ridiculous because no one ever said it was ALL Eli and also killing a rookie getting his first taste of NFL and using it to prop up Eli is pathetic. And embarrassing for you.


im not "killing" jones. im not screaming anything. hyperbole much?

all i was saying is eli was playing good ball in 14, 15, and 16. he was not part of the problem those years. i believe the logical time to move on from eli was after the 2017 season. so im not "propping up" anything. eli only became part of the problem in the mcadoo/shurmur wco type offenses (last 2-3 years), not the coughlin offense, and not the 16 season either. my only point. flame on
I really value the opinion of the guy  
Jay on the Island : 10/21/2019 9:44 pm : link
who traded up to take Mark Sanchez with the 5th overall pick in the draft and proceeded to run the Jets and Dolphins organizations into the ground.
RE: eli was not the problem  
Scuzzlebutt : 10/21/2019 10:46 pm : link
In comment 14639597 japanhead said:
Quote:
for the past six seasons. the past three at most. for example, he was playing really well in 2015: i think he had like 35 TDs that year. it was the historically bad defense that caused them to go 6-10 that year, not eli. remember after coughlin was fired, reese went on a defensive spending spree in free agency in 2016 and that team made the playoffs, where eli was throwing lasers all over the field in lambau as his receivers dropped everything in sight? shit on eli if you really must, but don't exaggerate his decline.


+1
Crazy talk  
ZoneXDOA : 10/22/2019 6:25 am : link
Kid plays great, everyone loves him. Then he plays against the Patriots. In poor weather conditions. Had some bad throws. So did Brady. Then, 10 days later, plays in HORRIBLE weather conditions. Has some bad throws. But notice: Murray wasnt called on to do much either. We lost this game and the Patriots game because we couldnt stop short passes or runs and we couldnt run. Yeah, Jones needs to protect the ball. Hes gotta fix that. But hes a rookie and I can let that slide under the conditions he was throwing in and against the corners he was throwing against. The ball is hard to grip in the rain. Becomes easier to Strip. Peterson, Gilbert, etc. with downpours (both literally with the rain and figuratively with opposing DLs) make for pretty high probability of rookie mistakes. Lets see what he does. How he course corrects. Can he bounce back?
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