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Everyone is crazy if they think Shurmur will get fired soon

huygens20 : 10/21/2019 9:01 pm
He was in part hired because he's a QB whisperer. Despite his failures at actual in game coaching, its undeniable that Foles, Manning, and Keenum had their best years with Shurmur. For Manning, his numbers markedly improved over McAdoos tenure even in year 1.

Shurmur's job is completely tied to whether or not Daniel Jones improves in year 2. As much talk has been written about Darnold (i personally have always thiought he was overrated), Mayfield, Josh Allen, none of them have markedly improved in year 2.

We're gonna find out next year if Shurmur is gonna stick around. Itll be foolish to think hes gonna get fired anytime soon because of "playcalling"
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RE: RE: If he’s back next year results don’t matter..  
Big_N : 10/21/2019 9:47 pm : link
In comment 14639810 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14639798 Sean said:


Quote:


How do you sell that?

We should have just kept Reese & McAdoo at this point.



Yup. We're just wasting years and careers at this point.


What careers? Eli is done and all these guys are going to end up in arena football sooner or later. they suck.
They need to cut down on turnovers on offense  
Rjanyg : 10/21/2019 9:51 pm : link
And get more on defense
He should be fired, but he won't be.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/21/2019 9:54 pm : link
And so we'll be practically wasting another season next year.

The fish rots from the head. That's what it comes down to with me. John Mara is a dude who was born on 3rd base & thought he hit a triple. He's incompetent.
I don’t get the absolutes with Shurmur..  
Sean : 10/21/2019 9:57 pm : link
What evidence is there that he will be back next year? Les made a good point above & he was quick to axe McAdoo even after going 11-5 in 2016.
Sean...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/21/2019 9:59 pm : link
I think Mara believes that if we fire Shurmur, after only 2 years, it'll look like we're an incompetent organization, which we currently are. It's all about appearances. I think Shurmur should be shown the door, but I know they'll play up the 'Rookie QB' angle.
The evidence actually doesn’t warrant that..  
Sean : 10/21/2019 10:21 pm : link
Mara has been fairly aggressive (at times too much).

-After 2009 held a press conference very critical of the teams finish after starting 5-0.

-After 2013 criticized coaching for not playing the young guys (Jernigan) and forced Coughlin to fire Gilbride.

-Forced Coughlin to fire Fewell after 2014.

-Fired a 2x SB winning HC in Coughlin (we haven’t had a coach since).

-Fired McAdoo and Reese mid season less than a year removed from 11-5.

Shurmur with 2 full seasons here and an overall HC record over 25 games under .500 will get him canned imo.
Les in TO: i don’t know where TO is but it must be an alien world if  
plato : 10/21/2019 10:32 pm : link
Fassel is or was a “great offensive mind” . If this is where young giant fans are, the fan base is clueless.
I may not think he'll get fired  
Tim in VA : 10/21/2019 10:58 pm : link
But damnit if I don't want it bad.
It's hilarious  
MookGiants : 10/21/2019 11:01 pm : link
to hear the GM talk about culture and get rid of guys that he believes are culture problems while being the same guy that hired one of the biggest losers as a head coach in the history of the sport. If Gettleman wants Shurmur back next year Mara needs to tell both of them to get fucking lost.

RE: Sean...  
MookGiants : 10/21/2019 11:04 pm : link
In comment 14639948 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
I think Mara believes that if we fire Shurmur, after only 2 years, it'll look like we're an incompetent organization, which we currently are. It's all about appearances. I think Shurmur should be shown the door, but I know they'll play up the 'Rookie QB' angle.


The results and decisions of the last 7 years have done a great job at showing they are an incompetent organization. Hiring a total loser as a head coach also accomplished that too.
He will get one more year  
montanagiant : 10/21/2019 11:43 pm : link
And must show a marked improvement IMO
RE: He will get one more year  
Go Terps : 10/21/2019 11:58 pm : link
In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:
Quote:
And must show a marked improvement IMO


How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?
Shurmur should have been...  
bw in dc : 10/22/2019 12:13 am : link
fired yesterday at 4:15pm. That was this year's nadir in another wasted season.

The Arizona Cardinals marched into inclement weather from their pacific time zone, with Altuve at QB and a gadget HC, and absolutely punched us in the mouth to take a commanding 17-0 lead. And then never looked back.

I mean, how do you say with a straight face Shurmur deserves to keep coaching??
Shurmur's refusal to surrender the play calling function  
Phil in Joisey : 10/22/2019 12:20 am : link
that he's so awful at is a valid reason to fire him
as Head Coach.
He can whisper anything he wants to his quarterbacks,
but he's killing his offense with terrible play calls.
This "QB whisperer" bullshit is killing several NFL teams.  
Mr. Bungle : 10/22/2019 12:31 am : link
A head coach's job is to be the goddamned head coach of the team, not a specialist at one position.

And Shurmur is utterly horrible at the head coaching thing. He can go be a QB coach somewhere.
I feel like so many Giants threads are Mets threads  
giantsFC : 10/22/2019 12:31 am : link
It’s scaring me. I already have enough misery from one poorly run franchise. The giants have always (until this era) been a rock of stability and excitement.

Ring back the Strahans, LT’s, Carl Banks, Osi’s’ Tucks, Armsteads of Giants culture.
another game or two like the last one  
HomerJones45 : 10/22/2019 12:50 am : link
and his ass and his qb-whisperer reputation will be out the door and rightly so. He just doesn't have it.
RE: Yup, and we'll go 5-11 next year  
allstarjim : 10/22/2019 1:19 am : link
In comment 14639793 Go Terps said:
Quote:
This is a losing team with a losing culture that doesn't seem particularly interested in changing.


OK Terps, why don't you tell us the "culture" this team should have? What specifically have the other "successful" NFL franchises done that has left the Giants behind in your opinion? Would really like a straight answer.
RE: RE: He will get one more year  
montanagiant : 10/22/2019 1:22 am : link
In comment 14640159 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:


Quote:


And must show a marked improvement IMO



How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?

You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch
RE: RE: RE: He will get one more year  
Go Terps : 10/22/2019 1:31 am : link
In comment 14640206 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14640159 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:


Quote:


And must show a marked improvement IMO



How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?


You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch


I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season.

That's what the Giants do. Waste years.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He will get one more year  
allstarjim : 10/22/2019 1:44 am : link
In comment 14640208 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14640206 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 14640159 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:


Quote:


And must show a marked improvement IMO



How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?


You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch



I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season.

That's what the Giants do. Waste years.


You're going to eat those words.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He will get one more year  
.McL. : 10/22/2019 1:54 am : link
In comment 14640208 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14640206 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 14640159 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:


Quote:


And must show a marked improvement IMO



How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?


You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch



I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season.

That's what the Giants do. Waste years.

Unfortunately true.
Shurmur has proven he doesn't deserve another year, but he will get it.
DG bought an extra year with the Jones pick. Not that I am happy about that either.
The most likely scenario is a half measure  
BH28 : 10/22/2019 1:56 am : link
Mara will force Shurmur to fire half of his assistant coaches to buy him another year.

If he's not gonna fire him, he should at least force some analytics guys on the staff.

RE: I think he gets his full 5 years  
Leg of Theismann : 10/22/2019 4:12 am : link
In comment 14639789 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
Honestly. This organization just agonized over regime and QB overhaul. John Mara doesn’t have the guts to do that again anytime soon.


But... if the roster truly is rebuilt and stronger in 2020-2021 (with cap space fully utilized and better managed) a real experienced and successful NFL head coach (Tomlin, Rivera, Payton, just to randomly list the type I’m referring to) should be able to come in and have immediate success without having to first go through a couple years of 5-11 and 6-10. I think after 2020 if Shurmur is still failing and making obviously terrible decisions week in and week out, and Mara has an opportunity to get a real big name HC that rejuvenates the fan base and the team—he might have the guts to actually pull the trigger. Hell DG might wrongly encourage him to pull the trigger if he feels/realizes that hitching his wagon to Shurmur likely spells the end of his career as a GM.
DG might Strongly* encourage him  
Leg of Theismann : 10/22/2019 4:13 am : link
Not “wrongly” encourage”... sorry on my phone
RE: Les in TO: i don’t know where TO is but it must be an alien world if  
Les in TO : 10/22/2019 5:56 am : link
In comment 14640048 plato said:
Quote:
Fassel is or was a “great offensive mind” . If this is where young giant fans are, the fan base is clueless.
he was a well respected QB teacher and succeeded as a coordinator with the cardinals before getting his chance with the giants. He made chicken salad with the chicken shit giants offense in 97 led by Danny Kannel saved Kerry Collins career and took us to the super bowl after putting up 41 on the Vikings. His shortcomings as a coach involved getting his teams to finish games and discipline
Pat Shurmur will be fired at the end of this season...  
M.S. : 10/22/2019 6:48 am : link

...along with his entire coaching staff. One or two may be able to hang on with the new regime.
the thread should have been over after the first line  
Steve in Greenwich : 10/22/2019 8:16 am : link
"Despite his failures at actual in game coaching, its undeniable that Foles, Manning, and Keenum had their best years with Shurmur. For Manning, his numbers markedly improved over McAdoos tenure even in year 1."

I guess higher completion percentages now is a better marker for best season of a players career than Super Bowl winning seasons.... I mean, Eli's 2018 season was SOOOO clearly his best season of his career that its absolutely UNDENIABLE!!!! That Super Bowl MVP, Pro Bowl, 5000 yard season was no match for the 5-11 season which he threw for close to 67% completion percentage.
Sunday's loss was a painfully bad look  
JonC : 10/22/2019 8:20 am : link
for a team that's sinking, and led by a head coach who's displayed little of what you need to win in the NFL. If they continue to sink, he should be gone at the end of the season.
.  
arcarsenal : 10/22/2019 8:23 am : link
He should be fired now, honestly. I've seen enough.

He's a OC playing head coach. I think he's a solid offensive guy and heck, I'd be fine with him taking Shula's spot - but he can't be the HC for this rebuild. He's the wrong guy.
He's a QB whisperer?  
cjac : 10/22/2019 8:32 am : link
Maybe he should whisper to stop fumbling the fucking ball
history lesson re: Cards  
bc4life : 10/22/2019 9:07 am : link
2013 - 2015. 10-6, 11-5, 13-3, followed by 2 .500 seasons (one was 8-7-1). They picked up Suggs and have Chandler Jones Peterson and some of the other talent from their good years.

People look at last two years and think they were farther behind than Giants. Last two years of Cards' history is giving some a distorted perspective of what Cards were and are.

Giants played poorly especially re: run. But, our best LB is done for the year.

This is what a rebuild looks like. It's generally not linear. 2nd half of last season trending up, now some turbulance. Just have to wait for entire season to play out.

Jury is still out - not sure what some of you expected
RE: history lesson re: Cards  
arcarsenal : 10/22/2019 9:13 am : link
In comment 14640452 bc4life said:
Quote:
2013 - 2015. 10-6, 11-5, 13-3, followed by 2 .500 seasons (one was 8-7-1). They picked up Suggs and have Chandler Jones Peterson and some of the other talent from their good years.

People look at last two years and think they were farther behind than Giants. Last two years of Cards' history is giving some a distorted perspective of what Cards were and are.

Giants played poorly especially re: run. But, our best LB is done for the year.

This is what a rebuild looks like. It's generally not linear. 2nd half of last season trending up, now some turbulance. Just have to wait for entire season to play out.

Jury is still out - not sure what some of you expected


I expected the coach to be halfway competent on gamedays.

He STILL hasn't figured out that he's good for one wasted challenge and at least one additional wasted TO (or use of one in a highly questionable spot) per game.

I didn't expect the Giants to be a great team this year, I did expect them to be coached better than this. And of the available (realistically available) candidates at the time, I was fine with Shurmur being the guy. I figured he'd be great for a rookie QB, he'd get the offense out of the McAdoo disaster zone... and perhaps that he'd learned a bit from his time in Cleveland.

His clock management sucks, his in-game management sucks, and I'm struggling to find much of any redeeming qualities here.

He has to go. And if the Giants give him another year, shame on them.
I'm not surprised  
JonC : 10/22/2019 9:19 am : link
My expectations of Shurmur were low to begin with. The fact the roster is still forced to roll out back up and special teamers as starters tells you it's a rebuild in progress. Rolling out a 3-4 with below average LB players tells you they've got a ton of work to do, not to mention the WR unit.

But, I'm already tired of watching Shurmur embarrass himself and the Giants franchise on a weekly basis. He's part of the list of problems.

Self-scouting has been a huge problem for the Giants for years. From Mara and now DG downward. They won two championships, but in the modern NFL it's not as hard to do as the golden era was. It deluded the franchise leadership and reinforced years of poor self-scouting which still continues today.
JonC to be fair  
bc4life : 10/22/2019 9:25 am : link
Connelly was playing well. They need pass rushers, Golden is trying but not a top tier talent. Was hoping Carter would be trending up faster, but he's still just a sophomore

Players have made some major mistakes on gameday, dug holes that they don't have the talent to dig out of.
I get it  
JonC : 10/22/2019 9:27 am : link
but the problems run deeper. They could eventually find some success under DG, but my instincts are they're not yet moving in the direction of building a championship contender window. I have no confidence in the coaching staff.
At that point  
Scooter185 : 10/22/2019 9:36 am : link
Any wins are really losses towards the big picture. If they lose out I can't see PS staying, but if they get 2-3 more wins he's back
we're all pissed  
bc4life : 10/22/2019 9:37 am : link
but I like the front three. agree we need better LB talent. wonder if picking up someone like Bud Dupree would help.

Jones has to unload ball faster. Wondering if they had more of a true FB back there. Someone who never missed pass protection and knocked people out of the way versus walling them off.

On a side note, many on the site who wanted ot get rid of OBJ don't want to acknowledge the on the field problems that caused.

Thinking next year's draft will be heavy OL and wr. With exception of Hernandez - Snee was last solid OL player they drafted. 15 years ago - that is something Giant's FO can definitely be blamed for. Arguably their biggest flaw.
After sundays loss  
Dinger : 10/22/2019 10:15 am : link
I can't see them getting more than 3 wins on the season. I do think that Shurmur & co. are maddening enough to come up with a surprise vitory (Detroit is beatable) and playing one of the Eagles games closely. Somewhere in Mara's mind that will be enough to keep him on. We'll get a low draft pick (top 5?) and then turn in an 8 and 8 season next year and then the bottom drops out in 2021 cause thats how this team is run.

Sorry, between the Giants and the Yankees, I'm in a dour mood. On to hockey season...... He said in mid October
If the play from sunday continues he is in trouble  
ron mexico : 10/22/2019 10:21 am : link
I have to believe the team will play somewhat better than that going forward, for no other reason than it would be hard to play worse
I agree he won't be fired soon  
arniefez : 10/22/2019 10:21 am : link
He should be but he won't be. He'll be fired the day after the season ends.
Shurmur isn't our only problem: it is a lack of big time talent  
SGMen : 10/22/2019 10:30 am : link
The fact that we came out FLAT on Sunday for the first quarter was appalling for a team that had so much REST time after the Thursday night fiasco vs NEW ENGLAND.

Shurmur needs a solid draft and solid UFA's (not the big name ones necessarily but we clearly need at least one OT upgrade, likely RT. I can see us going OL in round one or ER, depending upon how talent falls as we will likely have a pick between 9-15 I'd guess.

We simply don't have OT's of merit nor a pass rush of merit YET. I do believe guys like L. Carter, D. Lawrence, Ximines, BJ Hill and McIntoshh can IMPROVE pass rush but none of them are a "must double team every pass play" type (maybe Lawrence with a year in the weight room???).

QB D. Jones got killed and faked out. He is a rookie and made some mistakes. He will improve with practice and real games. I suspect after the bye week we will see "adjustments" and more youth infusion with possibly Bethea replaced with Love at least on defense and Slayton seeing more and more time at WR.

Shurmur gets next year for sure. This shit show is a talent issue more than coaching, IMHO.
I think the Cards decline  
RollBlue : 10/22/2019 10:54 am : link
started right after Ariens retired - proving the point that coaching matters. I'll bet TB is a force in the NFC next year - if their kicker hadn't missed a 34 yarder, they would be 3-3, and we would be 1-5.
IF  
Thegratefulhead : 10/22/2019 12:16 pm : link
He gets fired, it will be immediately after the season ends and they will get a new coach ASAP. Not during DJs rookie season. I think it very likely Shurmur gets another year...unless the team blatantly quits on him.
RE: Shurmur isn't our only problem: it is a lack of big time talent  
uther99 : 10/22/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14640673 SGMen said:
Quote:


Shurmur gets next year for sure. This shit show is a talent issue more than coaching, IMHO.


Agreed, is there anyone on D making an impact? Maybe Lawerence and Golden? Sad
What’s the difference between Coughlin and Shurmur with first year QB?  
BUgiantfan : 10/22/2019 12:41 pm : link
I have not been able to watch many games this season, so I genuinely don’t have a feel for how Shurmur is doing. I remember so many wanting Coughlin gone in year three and had we jumped the gun, we might have missed out on two Super Bowl wins. How was Coughlin superior in those early years compared to Shurmur.

The only thing I can add is that in the few games I have seen, the play looks sloppy- poor tackling, poor blocking. I usually blame coaching for that. That said, I remember complaining about that with Coughlin at times, also.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He will get one more year  
Go Terps : 10/22/2019 12:45 pm : link
In comment 14640215 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 14640208 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14640206 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 14640159 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:


Quote:


And must show a marked improvement IMO



How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?


You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch



I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season.

That's what the Giants do. Waste years.



You're going to eat those words.


You're not the first guy on this board to say that to me.
I think he's got 2 ways to keep his job  
giants#1 : 10/22/2019 12:50 pm : link
1. They started 0-2 so I think they need to finish at least 6-10. That would be a respectable 6-8 with a rookie QB.

2. Or he can show he's the right man to develop Jones. A rookie QB is going to have his ups and downs, but the downs need to become less frequent as the season progresses. If Jones shows substantial growth and his putting up impressive numbers down the stretch, then it won't matter as much if the D keeps getting gashed and they lose a bunch of games 30-35.

What would be "impressive" #s (for a rookie)? Consider Darnold's last month last year which had everyone going crazy about his future: 64% 233 ypg, 6 TDs, 1 INT, 1 Fmb, 7.5 y/a.

RE: I think the Cards decline  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/22/2019 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14640743 RollBlue said:
Quote:
started right after Ariens retired - proving the point that coaching matters. I'll bet TB is a force in the NFC next year - if their kicker hadn't missed a 34 yarder, they would be 3-3, and we would be 1-5.


Arians is a great coach, but he retired because he could tell where that shit show was heading. His team was getting old, he didn't have a QB, he prefers vet QBs, and he wanted to get out of dodge.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: He will get one more year  
allstarjim : 10/22/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14640993 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14640215 allstarjim said:


Quote:


In comment 14640208 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14640206 montanagiant said:


Quote:


In comment 14640159 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:


Quote:


And must show a marked improvement IMO



How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?


You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch



I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season.

That's what the Giants do. Waste years.



You're going to eat those words.



You're not the first guy on this board to say that to me.


Well stop being wrong so much.
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