Everyone is crazy if they think Shurmur will get fired soon

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Honestly. This organization just agonized over regime and QB overhaul. John Mara doesn’t have the guts to do that again anytime soon.

This is a losing team with a losing culture that doesn't seem particularly interested in changing.

How do you sell that?

We should have just kept Reese & McAdoo at this point.

In comment 14639798 Sean said:

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How do you sell that? We should have just kept Reese & McAdoo at this point.

Yup. We're just wasting years and careers at this point.

in remaining division games and Shurmur is gone. His record speaks for itself and easy to see why he can’t win games. Bad play caller, horrible clock management, zero creativity and teams come out flat. DG is no nonsense and will correct his mistake. This isn’t your fathers Giants where coaches get to finish their contract no matter what.

We're nowhere near rock bottom on this season. Jenkins and Tate will be yapping. Shurmur's pressers will get worse. I believe it'll get bad enough where you can't justify bringing him back.

But he should. He’s not a good head coach. There’s very little evidence to support his being a good coach. At best there’s hope that he could be, given the right situation. I’ll point to the team not giving up on him last year, even after mathematical elimination. But that’s the extent of cause for hope, in my eyes. Not much cause beyond that.

?

Team still is playing hard...losing team must happen first....and I think he is liked by the team

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If the Giants finish with a losing record again which looks to be the case I think it’s more likely than not he’s a goner based on organizational precedent .

Handley and Reeves were fired after two consecutive losing seasons
McAdoo and Fassel were fired during and after a single horrendous season respectively notwithstanding a playoff birth the previous year.
Coughlin was fired after three straight losing seasons - and he won two Super Bowls

Fassel was a QB whisperer too and he was a great offensive mind but being a head coach means delegating specific positional development and ensuring the team as a whole is prepared every week to win.

Shurmur is a great coordinator but a bad head coach much like norv turner. I hope the Giants don’t succeed him with Shula on the theory that system continuity is more important than the most qualified candidate.

The debacle vs Arizona could be his signature wheels coming off game like the ice ball finale in 95, the joe horn cell phone game or the blowout loss to the rams two years ago.

In comment 14639810 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14639798 Sean said: Quote: How do you sell that? We should have just kept Reese & McAdoo at this point. Yup. We're just wasting years and careers at this point.

What careers? Eli is done and all these guys are going to end up in arena football sooner or later. they suck.

And get more on defense

And so we'll be practically wasting another season next year.

The fish rots from the head. That's what it comes down to with me. John Mara is a dude who was born on 3rd base & thought he hit a triple. He's incompetent.

What evidence is there that he will be back next year? Les made a good point above & he was quick to axe McAdoo even after going 11-5 in 2016.

I think Mara believes that if we fire Shurmur, after only 2 years, it'll look like we're an incompetent organization, which we currently are. It's all about appearances. I think Shurmur should be shown the door, but I know they'll play up the 'Rookie QB' angle.

Mara has been fairly aggressive (at times too much).

-After 2009 held a press conference very critical of the teams finish after starting 5-0.

-After 2013 criticized coaching for not playing the young guys (Jernigan) and forced Coughlin to fire Gilbride.

-Forced Coughlin to fire Fewell after 2014.

-Fired a 2x SB winning HC in Coughlin (we haven’t had a coach since).

-Fired McAdoo and Reese mid season less than a year removed from 11-5.

Shurmur with 2 full seasons here and an overall HC record over 25 games under .500 will get him canned imo.

Fassel is or was a “great offensive mind” . If this is where young giant fans are, the fan base is clueless.

But damnit if I don't want it bad.

to hear the GM talk about culture and get rid of guys that he believes are culture problems while being the same guy that hired one of the biggest losers as a head coach in the history of the sport. If Gettleman wants Shurmur back next year Mara needs to tell both of them to get fucking lost.

In comment 14639948 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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I think Mara believes that if we fire Shurmur, after only 2 years, it'll look like we're an incompetent organization, which we currently are. It's all about appearances. I think Shurmur should be shown the door, but I know they'll play up the 'Rookie QB' angle.

The results and decisions of the last 7 years have done a great job at showing they are an incompetent organization. Hiring a total loser as a head coach also accomplished that too.

And must show a marked improvement IMO

In comment 14640150 montanagiant said:

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And must show a marked improvement IMO

How has he earned another year?

How has he earned another game?

fired yesterday at 4:15pm. That was this year's nadir in another wasted season.

The Arizona Cardinals marched into inclement weather from their pacific time zone, with Altuve at QB and a gadget HC, and absolutely punched us in the mouth to take a commanding 17-0 lead. And then never looked back.

I mean, how do you say with a straight face Shurmur deserves to keep coaching??

that he's so awful at is a valid reason to fire him
as Head Coach.
He can whisper anything he wants to his quarterbacks,
but he's killing his offense with terrible play calls.

A head coach's job is to be the goddamned head coach of the team, not a specialist at one position.

And Shurmur is utterly horrible at the head coaching thing. He can go be a QB coach somewhere.

It’s scaring me. I already have enough misery from one poorly run franchise. The giants have always (until this era) been a rock of stability and excitement.

Ring back the Strahans, LT’s, Carl Banks, Osi’s’ Tucks, Armsteads of Giants culture.

and his ass and his qb-whisperer reputation will be out the door and rightly so. He just doesn't have it.

In comment 14639793 Go Terps said:

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This is a losing team with a losing culture that doesn't seem particularly interested in changing.

OK Terps, why don't you tell us the "culture" this team should have? What specifically have the other "successful" NFL franchises done that has left the Giants behind in your opinion? Would really like a straight answer.

In comment 14640159 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14640150 montanagiant said: Quote: And must show a marked improvement IMO How has he earned another year? How has he earned another game?

You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch

In comment 14640206 montanagiant said:

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In comment 14640159 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 14640150 montanagiant said: Quote: And must show a marked improvement IMO How has he earned another year? How has he earned another game? You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch

I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season.

That's what the Giants do. Waste years.

In comment 14640208 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 14640206 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 14640159 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 14640150 montanagiant said: Quote: And must show a marked improvement IMO How has he earned another year? How has he earned another game? You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season. That's what the Giants do. Waste years.

You're going to eat those words.

In comment 14640208 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 14640206 montanagiant said: Quote: In comment 14640159 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 14640150 montanagiant said: Quote: And must show a marked improvement IMO How has he earned another year? How has he earned another game? You won't like it but's going to happen...Watch I completely agree. I expect we fire him and Gettleman in January 2021 after another 5-11 season. That's what the Giants do. Waste years.

Unfortunately true.
Shurmur has proven he doesn't deserve another year, but he will get it.
DG bought an extra year with the Jones pick. Not that I am happy about that either.

Mara will force Shurmur to fire half of his assistant coaches to buy him another year.

If he's not gonna fire him, he should at least force some analytics guys on the staff.

In comment 14639789 Dave in PA said:

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Honestly. This organization just agonized over regime and QB overhaul. John Mara doesn’t have the guts to do that again anytime soon.

But... if the roster truly is rebuilt and stronger in 2020-2021 (with cap space fully utilized and better managed) a real experienced and successful NFL head coach (Tomlin, Rivera, Payton, just to randomly list the type I’m referring to) should be able to come in and have immediate success without having to first go through a couple years of 5-11 and 6-10. I think after 2020 if Shurmur is still failing and making obviously terrible decisions week in and week out, and Mara has an opportunity to get a real big name HC that rejuvenates the fan base and the team—he might have the guts to actually pull the trigger. Hell DG might wrongly encourage him to pull the trigger if he feels/realizes that hitching his wagon to Shurmur likely spells the end of his career as a GM.

Not “wrongly” encourage”... sorry on my phone

In comment 14640048 plato said:

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Fassel is or was a “great offensive mind” . If this is where young giant fans are, the fan base is clueless.

he was a well respected QB teacher and succeeded as a coordinator with the cardinals before getting his chance with the giants. He made chicken salad with the chicken shit giants offense in 97 led by Danny Kannel saved Kerry Collins career and took us to the super bowl after putting up 41 on the Vikings. His shortcomings as a coach involved getting his teams to finish games and discipline

...along with his entire coaching staff. One or two may be able to hang on with the new regime.

"Despite his failures at actual in game coaching, its undeniable that Foles, Manning, and Keenum had their best years with Shurmur. For Manning, his numbers markedly improved over McAdoos tenure even in year 1."

I guess higher completion percentages now is a better marker for best season of a players career than Super Bowl winning seasons.... I mean, Eli's 2018 season was SOOOO clearly his best season of his career that its absolutely UNDENIABLE!!!! That Super Bowl MVP, Pro Bowl, 5000 yard season was no match for the 5-11 season which he threw for close to 67% completion percentage.

for a team that's sinking, and led by a head coach who's displayed little of what you need to win in the NFL. If they continue to sink, he should be gone at the end of the season.

He should be fired now, honestly. I've seen enough.

He's a OC playing head coach. I think he's a solid offensive guy and heck, I'd be fine with him taking Shula's spot - but he can't be the HC for this rebuild. He's the wrong guy.

Maybe he should whisper to stop fumbling the fucking ball

2013 - 2015. 10-6, 11-5, 13-3, followed by 2 .500 seasons (one was 8-7-1). They picked up Suggs and have Chandler Jones Peterson and some of the other talent from their good years.

People look at last two years and think they were farther behind than Giants. Last two years of Cards' history is giving some a distorted perspective of what Cards were and are.

Giants played poorly especially re: run. But, our best LB is done for the year.

This is what a rebuild looks like. It's generally not linear. 2nd half of last season trending up, now some turbulance. Just have to wait for entire season to play out.

Jury is still out - not sure what some of you expected

In comment 14640452 bc4life said:

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2013 - 2015. 10-6, 11-5, 13-3, followed by 2 .500 seasons (one was 8-7-1). They picked up Suggs and have Chandler Jones Peterson and some of the other talent from their good years. People look at last two years and think they were farther behind than Giants. Last two years of Cards' history is giving some a distorted perspective of what Cards were and are. Giants played poorly especially re: run. But, our best LB is done for the year. This is what a rebuild looks like. It's generally not linear. 2nd half of last season trending up, now some turbulance. Just have to wait for entire season to play out. Jury is still out - not sure what some of you expected

I expected the coach to be halfway competent on gamedays.

He STILL hasn't figured out that he's good for one wasted challenge and at least one additional wasted TO (or use of one in a highly questionable spot) per game.

I didn't expect the Giants to be a great team this year, I did expect them to be coached better than this. And of the available (realistically available) candidates at the time, I was fine with Shurmur being the guy. I figured he'd be great for a rookie QB, he'd get the offense out of the McAdoo disaster zone... and perhaps that he'd learned a bit from his time in Cleveland.

His clock management sucks, his in-game management sucks, and I'm struggling to find much of any redeeming qualities here.

He has to go. And if the Giants give him another year, shame on them.

My expectations of Shurmur were low to begin with. The fact the roster is still forced to roll out back up and special teamers as starters tells you it's a rebuild in progress. Rolling out a 3-4 with below average LB players tells you they've got a ton of work to do, not to mention the WR unit.

But, I'm already tired of watching Shurmur embarrass himself and the Giants franchise on a weekly basis. He's part of the list of problems.

Self-scouting has been a huge problem for the Giants for years. From Mara and now DG downward. They won two championships, but in the modern NFL it's not as hard to do as the golden era was. It deluded the franchise leadership and reinforced years of poor self-scouting which still continues today.

Connelly was playing well. They need pass rushers, Golden is trying but not a top tier talent. Was hoping Carter would be trending up faster, but he's still just a sophomore

Players have made some major mistakes on gameday, dug holes that they don't have the talent to dig out of.

but the problems run deeper. They could eventually find some success under DG, but my instincts are they're not yet moving in the direction of building a championship contender window. I have no confidence in the coaching staff.

Any wins are really losses towards the big picture. If they lose out I can't see PS staying, but if they get 2-3 more wins he's back