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Carl Banks On Poor Officiating

DeepBlueJint : 10/22/2019 8:06 am
Banks: “It is hurting the game. This one is a little bit over-officiated because of the technology. Now they’re at a crossroads where the technology is available and they have made a ruling on some things and now all of a sudden they don’t even want to acknowledge the technology to correct the official. The thing that is impacting is that the game is growing at a pace and this is seen deliberate by the league. They’re inviting more fans because they’re giving them more avenues and more angles meaning, you know, things that they can do to get interested in the game and the peripheral fan now is becoming more interested because you can play fantasy football, because you can bet on the game. So if you’re going to have those fans and you’re growing your game at this pace and you’re generating more interest then you have to maintain the integrity of what you’re doing and if you don’t, you’re inviting people to say, ‘hey these games aren’t on the up and up,’ and there’s going to be a thousand conspiracy theories because you’re not being consistent even with the rules you put in place, you don’t even want to allow those to work.”
Carl saying that the PI review  
section125 : 10/22/2019 8:10 am : link
is a joke and it is causing problems....good. The rest of the press needs to hammer the league.
He's right, long time fans realize its just incompetence of the NFL  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/22/2019 8:11 am : link
and its officials, but your casual fan is going to think its fixed. How can they not when they aren't even overturning obvious atrocious pass interference calls
Suggest checking out Pat McAfee on YouTube on the officials this year  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/22/2019 8:13 am : link
He's been spot on and is carrying the torch on this one. Said he's had lots of players tell him to keep fighting the good fight. All these national guys barely mention it because TV contracts are coming up.
The integrity issue is profound...  
BamaBlue : 10/22/2019 8:14 am : link
there are technology problems and issues that arise from the speed of the game. Those can be addressed and they can be managed. Integrity is a separate issue... there appears to be an attempt to alter the game (don't overturn obvious mistakes) with an agenda. I hope the agenda is just a stubborn resistance to overturn decisions on the field. While that's not a good reason, it would be worse if they are making an attempt to alter the outcome of the game. The incompetence of the officials and the arrogance of the NFL leadership gives breath to the conspiracy theories.

I had an Army boss who said something that I think of with this NFL officiating crap show... "Don't rush to ascribe malice to a situation where incompetence can otherwise be suspected."
The NFL is heading.  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/22/2019 8:17 am : link
down the same road NASCAR has. It is starting to alienate their core group of fans in the hopes to attract fringe fans.

The problem time and again with that angle is fringe fans don't remain loyal, and if you lose the base, the sport starts to see serious issues in attendance, viewership, apparel sales.

If it weren't for fantasy football, we'd probably already see a steep decline.
And..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/22/2019 8:18 am : link
this is excellent:

Quote:
I had an Army boss who said something that I think of with this NFL officiating crap show... "Don't rush to ascribe malice to a situation where incompetence can otherwise be suspected."


You have part-time 60+ year old guys out there.
Bama the parallel with the military and the NFL is a strong one  
Zeke's Alibi : 10/22/2019 8:21 am : link
In both orgs you get unilateral decision making that highlights incompetence.
The NFL is going to lose more fans  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/22/2019 8:21 am : link
- terrible officiating, slow down games and they still don't get it correct

- Same teams year after year winning (Patriots)

- Image problems - Murderers, rapists, child abusers, CTE

- Empty stadiums - Corporations raking in tickets making it affordable for normal people
UN Affordable  
I Love Clams Casino : 10/22/2019 8:22 am : link
oops!
RE: The NFL is heading.  
BlueHurricane : 10/22/2019 8:24 am : link
In comment 14640342 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
down the same road NASCAR has. It is starting to alienate their core group of fans in the hopes to attract fringe fans.

The problem time and again with that angle is fringe fans don't remain loyal, and if you lose the base, the sport starts to see serious issues in attendance, viewership, apparel sales.

If it weren't for fantasy football, we'd probably already see a steep decline.


Been saying this for years. While attracting the ladies and the nerds they are losing their mainstays. I know former die hard fans who do not even watch the Giants anymore. I don't know how many games I have turned off the last three years. I can admit I am addicted to the Giants but that addiction is waning.
Blue..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/22/2019 8:29 am : link
my son has been working Sundays lately and I asked him why he's working during the Giants game, and he said to me last week that he'd rather be making money than watching a game that keeps getting decided by arbitrary calls and made-up rules.

He's gone from watching games all day Sunday to even when he's in the room during games, to being on his phone, instead of really watching, and once there's a bad call, he goes out with his friends to play basketball.

If I tried to play basketball on Sunday afternoons back in the day, I'd be by myself on the court.
I don't see how the NFL can maintain  
Mike from Ohio : 10/22/2019 8:31 am : link
having replay in the game, state pass interference calls/non-calls are subject to review, yet the purpose of that review is not to get the call correct.

Maybe they ascribe to the theory that there is no such thing as bad press, and love all the discussion of bad calls and conspiracy theories? Just look at any thread on BBI and you will see folks who believe the refs actively seek to help one team win. That is only going to become more commonplace.
Technology is most useful when  
idiotsavant : 10/22/2019 8:35 am : link
Concepts that it's in support of are strong and very clear.

It seems like with pass interference the concepts are mushy ergo the tech might not help.

If this is the rule you lived by of what use was the rule? ""


Maybe someone wants to paste in the pass interference language from the rule book and we can clean up the language
Yes the officiating is not good...  
EricJ : 10/22/2019 8:40 am : link
but I mentioned on a thread last week that a big part of it is the number of rules we have today that are layered with so many confusing special scenarios and situations.

The league's attempt to create rules to help scoring, prevent injury, etc etc has also ruined the game. Not that we want players to get hurt because we dont. All of these additional rules mean officials are looking at more things than they used to all at the same time and flags are flying more than ever.
Who are these fringe fans?  
trueblueinpw : 10/22/2019 8:48 am : link
Casual fans are always brought up as an excuse for shitty announcing and now apparently they’re part of the problem with shitty officiating? Not sure I even get that connection, but okay, let’s say it’s there. I’ve personally never met anyone who started watching the NFL because they were flipping around the dial and enjoyed the announcing. Where are these casual fans
RE: Yes the officiating is not good...  
Scooter185 : 10/22/2019 8:58 am : link
In comment 14640386 EricJ said:
Quote:
but I mentioned on a thread last week that a big part of it is the number of rules we have today that are layered with so many confusing special scenarios and situations.

The league's attempt to create rules to help scoring, prevent injury, etc etc has also ruined the game. Not that we want players to get hurt because we dont. All of these additional rules mean officials are looking at more things than they used to all at the same time and flags are flying more than ever.


I agree, the rulebook itself needs to be redone. Of course having competent officials is needed as well, but the root cause of what we're seeing is the rules themselves
Totally different sport, but I have been watching  
smshmth8690 : 10/22/2019 9:06 am : link
the Rugby World Cup. The NFL take notes on how they handle replay. The official is miked, and explains what he is looking for, and what he sees. Then he confers with the other officials, and then they make the call. I would much rather hear, and see that, than the network bringing in Dean Blandino, and the like to make excuses for the shitty calls.
RE: Who are these fringe fans?  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/22/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14640407 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Casual fans are always brought up as an excuse for shitty announcing and now apparently they’re part of the problem with shitty officiating? Not sure I even get that connection, but okay, let’s say it’s there. I’ve personally never met anyone who started watching the NFL because they were flipping around the dial and enjoyed the announcing. Where are these casual fans


Casual fans are brought up as an excuse for shitty announcing?

No. The NFL tries to attract the fringe fans. Having games in London. Increasing scoring artificially by neutering the defenses. Thursday Night Games. The push to attract more female fans.

Those fans have a certain level of interest that fades pretty quickly. Meanwhile the core group of fans gets more and more pissed.

Look at NASCAR with implementing the "Chase". By trying to go mainstream.
RE: Totally different sport, but I have been watching  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/22/2019 9:07 am : link
In comment 14640447 smshmth8690 said:
Quote:
the Rugby World Cup. The NFL take notes on how they handle replay. The official is miked, and explains what he is looking for, and what he sees. Then he confers with the other officials, and then they make the call. I would much rather hear, and see that, than the network bringing in Dean Blandino, and the like to make excuses for the shitty calls.


That;s a really good parallel. A lot of transparency, and not much controversy.
Professional Rugby is a great example..  
BamaBlue : 10/22/2019 9:13 am : link
and a very strong comparison to the speed and skill level of the NFL. the Television Match Official (TMO) is consulted about specific aspect of a play by the Referee. In football it would be a question like, 'was the catch completed with both feet inbounds?'

The TMO provides feedback to the referee, usually within a minute. Talk about fan friendly, the referee is not only mic'd up, but during matches he's often wearing a camera on his headgear...
RE: Blue..  
BlueHurricane : 10/22/2019 9:15 am : link
In comment 14640370 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
my son has been working Sundays lately and I asked him why he's working during the Giants game, and he said to me last week that he'd rather be making money than watching a game that keeps getting decided by arbitrary calls and made-up rules.

He's gone from watching games all day Sunday to even when he's in the room during games, to being on his phone, instead of really watching, and once there's a bad call, he goes out with his friends to play basketball.

If I tried to play basketball on Sunday afternoons back in the day, I'd be by myself on the court.


100% My 24yo is about as casual fan as you can be and my 11yo couldn't care less about the NFL. They are both athletes. They have tons of athlete friends and I can count on one hand how many of their friends care about the NFL. This sport is in trouble on many levels.
My wife is a fringe fan.  
Red Dog : 10/22/2019 11:14 am : link
She is from western NY and loves the Bills because they are western NY's team. She doesn't know anything about football, barely understands the scoring system and downs, and has zero comprehension (like not even knowing how many guys are on a side) of anything else despite the fact that she has been watching them for several years now.

And one of the other female fringe fans I know (wife of one of my buddies who doesn't watch the NFL any more) thought that all the players just ran around and did what they wanted on every play until I burst her bubble on that one.

Me, I'm one of those former hard core fans who doesn't even watch much any more. I haven't seen a complete NFL game in probably three seasons. I can't turn on a game without being totally repulsed by the shitty officiating and crappy level of play in general compared to what it used to be. I'd much rather watch a CFL game these days.
New challenging options.....  
thrunthrublue : 10/22/2019 11:44 am : link
Were instituted based on the super bowl consequences created by that one horrible p.i. call vs the rams........in a way the new rule was instituted to correct something happening like that ever again, a catastrophic, tectonic sized bad call that sent shock waves from New Orleans, thru the country especially shaking the book in Las Vegas.......what type of call would those refs make if they were betting on the rams? That call. Now that the coaches think they are empowered with make good powers, the sad realization is that there are infractions by nfl players on every down, and games cannot take 6 hours to play, and replay......so, coaches.....are your time outs more valuable to your strategy than challenging pass interference? Someone take the red flag away from shurmur, he has no concept on how to use it intelligently.
It really..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/22/2019 11:47 am : link
shouldn't be Shurmur's fault that he's correctly challenging bad calls.

The onus is on the league to not have a completely contradictory and arbitrary process involving the technology means they have on hand
Here is the problem as I see it recently  
RobCrossRiver56 : 10/22/2019 11:50 am : link
I have a bunch of friends that are NFL fans of various teams. All of them, including me are starting to question not only the calls but the motivation of the officials. Take the Detroit/GB game or the Dallas/Jets and you really start to wonder if they are calling the game fairly. Sunday they called PI against the Giants when the receiver tripped over his own feet and refused to overturn it..

It starts to beg the question..Why am I watching this shit?
RE: Yes the officiating is not good...  
KeoweeFan : 10/22/2019 12:42 pm : link
In comment 14640386 EricJ said:
Quote:
but I mentioned on a thread last week that a big part of it is the number of rules we have today that are layered with so many confusing special scenarios and situations.

The league's attempt to create rules to help scoring, prevent injury, etc etc has also ruined the game. Not that we want players to get hurt because we dont. All of these additional rules mean officials are looking at more things than they used to all at the same time and flags are flying more than ever.

YES!
I see an inverse correlation between the increasing amount of detailed regulations and the use of common sense in adjudicating those rules. (This is especially evident in our modern legal system and in regulatory agencies.)

"The letter of the law" is so complex that most cops, judges, inspectors and referees no longer know what's in the "book" and as a result they no longer reply on simple judgement for fear some obscure "rule" is going to come back and bite them.
Part of the problem with the rules  
81_Great_Dane : 10/22/2019 3:01 pm : link
is the attempt to protect QBs. Special rules protecting the QB have created an incentive to use the QB as a runner. So the QB is sort of a football player, sort of not, can run like a running back and scramble with the treat to run at any moment, but can't be hit like a running back. It creates an impossible situation for the defense and a no-win situation for the officials.

If all those special roughing rules for QBs were abolished and QBs were treated like any other ball carrier, the game would change, probably in ways the league doesn't want. But the game is changing anyway, and not in good ways.

The other safety rules are somewhat impractical but those seem to me to be especially tough for everyone involved, including us fans.
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