Can you imagine the field day that would be going on this morning on this board if Daniel Jones went 11-32 for 86 yards and had 5 turnovers, and was caught on the sidelines saying that?
the guy who played last week against the Cowboys with the guy who just played the Patriots. Given the Patriots defense is much better than Dallas', but the difference in performance was drastic.
The guy seemed spooked to play the Patriots which may speak to a larger problem than inconsistency.
to some posters whine for two years about not picking Darnold has been some fun times.
fun, fucking times.
They came out the woodwork last Monday. So annoying, and it comes down to that reactionary crap you posted about. My generation has made strides on previous ones in lots of ways, but the instant changes of the winds is not one of them.
DG haters who want to find fault for ANYTHING OR EVERYTHING he has done:
1. Selecting Shurmur
2. Trading Odell
3. Benching of Eli (because Shurmur is coach)
4. FA pickups (Solder especially)
5. Draft picks
6. Selecting Jones at #6
Granted, it does appear DG got # 1 wrong and much of #4, but the other 4 he got right. So, yes, while it is becoming apparent DG has dropped the ball on some decisions, most of what he is doing is preparing us to be a much better team for 2020 and beyond, unfortunately, not this year. He may have to cut ties with Shurmur if he doesn’t show us something in the remaining 9 games and hopefully he makes much better decisions bringing people in here this offseason.
Aren't there some analytics someone can enlighten us with Â
on how Darnold should be impacting W/L for the Jets all while on the cheap and Gettleman is a dinosaur for taking Barkley?
Who would have thought Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are the brightest spots of the 2018 draft class? And by the way, let me know if you think either of those can win a playoff game in which they have to throw the ball.
the guy who played last week against the Cowboys with the guy who just played the Patriots. Given the Patriots defense is much better than Dallas', but the difference in performance was drastic.
The guy seemed spooked to play the Patriots which may speak to a larger problem than inconsistency.
Which makes the play of Our rookie Danny Jones even that much more impressive. (With no Barkley or Ingram )
Daniel Jones: 15/31 – 161 yards – 1 TD / 3 INT / 35.2 QBR vs the Patriots in NE.
So better, but no bragging rights there.
I expect better thinking from you 125....the weather was horrible....especially the high winds,plus DJ had no protection again and no playmakers other than Tate to play with.
DJ ... He was a walk on who took a Duke team into Clemsons Death Valley, lined up against a boatload of NFL draft picks and played very well. He will be our QB for the next 15 years ... now we really need to get him OL help so he can stay upright and play.
drafting a new QB in 2020. A QB just can’t say that. It’s basically saying you are mentally shot. And you simply can’t process information. We saw that with Dave Brown. I’m not sure there is a cure...
Couple that with Darnold’s horribly inconsistent footwork and they have a huge problem at Jets Central.
RE: One difference between Darnold and Jones that isn't being discussed - Â
his explanation of it but it sounded like he was describing not being able to see the field properly, or that it was all too fast. But yeah, not good. I caught some of the game and every pass looked 5+ yards off the mark or just airmailed throwaways. Didn't even look like he was trying to make plays anymore.
DG haters who want to find fault for ANYTHING OR EVERYTHING he has done:
1. Selecting Shurmur
2. Trading Odell
3. Benching of Eli (because Shurmur is coach)
4. FA pickups (Solder especially)
5. Draft picks
6. Selecting Jones at #6
Granted, it does appear DG got # 1 wrong and much of #4, but the other 4 he got right. So, yes, while it is becoming apparent DG has dropped the ball on some decisions, most of what he is doing is preparing us to be a much better team for 2020 and beyond, unfortunately, not this year. He may have to cut ties with Shurmur if he doesn’t show us something in the remaining 9 games and hopefully he makes much better decisions bringing people in here this offseason.
I'm definitely in the camp that supports DG's first two Drafts. But hiring Shurmur and paying through the nose for Solder were the type of mistakes that will set this franchise back for years.
RE: was just going to say I didn't quite understand Â
his explanation of it but it sounded like he was describing not being able to see the field properly, or that it was all too fast. But yeah, not good. I caught some of the game and every pass looked 5+ yards off the mark or just airmailed throwaways. Didn't even look like he was trying to make plays anymore.
That was as close as you'll see right in front of your eyes a young QB's confidence crumbling to dust.
I genuinely felt sorry for him when Gase was talking to him before the final drive of the half. Gase knew it. Frankly, I think they should have sat him down. He was clearly overmatched.
DG haters who want to find fault for ANYTHING OR EVERYTHING he has done:
1. Selecting Shurmur
2. Trading Odell
3. Benching of Eli (because Shurmur is coach)
4. FA pickups (Solder especially)
5. Draft picks
6. Selecting Jones at #6
Granted, it does appear DG got # 1 wrong and much of #4, but the other 4 he got right. So, yes, while it is becoming apparent DG has dropped the ball on some decisions, most of what he is doing is preparing us to be a much better team for 2020 and beyond, unfortunately, not this year. He may have to cut ties with Shurmur if he doesn’t show us something in the remaining 9 games and hopefully he makes much better decisions bringing people in here this offseason.
I'm definitely in the camp that supports DG's first two Drafts. But hiring Shurmur and paying through the nose for Solder were the type of mistakes that will set this franchise back for years.
Like I said, Hopefully he Makes the adjustments to rectify those decisions (Cutting Shurmur). I know he probably can’t trade Solder or cut him, but maybe Solder turns it around like he did last year in the second half.
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
Nothing that Darnold does makes Jones better or worse. I don't understand this line of thinking at all. It all gets revealed on the field in the fullness of time.
Not just the seeing ghosts stuff. But the mechanics... the footwork. Holy cow. That was horrific. It was so bad that I'd have actual concerns about Darnold moving forward.
He looked like a guy who was scared to get hit.
One of the worst QB performances I've seen in recent years. I think he had -2 yards at the 2min warning.
Jones had a tough one on Sunday too, but at least the guy hung in there and wasn't afraid of contact.
Last night actually made me question whether or not Darnold is the guy for the Jets. That's how bad he was.
Granted... we saw some equally bad shit from Eli further into his career than this. But just the sheer shittiness of his mechanics last night and everything about the way he played... yikes.
They are cesspools of bitching where people congregate to backslap each other about how the team doesn't use analytics, used the #2 pick to draft to make a terrible pick (Darnold would've been better?), hired the worst GM and coach possible, has the worst roster in the NFL and is going to suck for the next several years.
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
Daniel Jones: 15/31 – 161 yards – 1 TD / 3 INT / 35.2 QBR vs the Patriots in NE.
So better, but no bragging rights there.
I expect better thinking from you 125....the weather was horrible....especially the high winds,plus DJ had no protection again and no playmakers other than Tate to play with.
Just a reference to offset the Darnold hanging crowd. Darnold looked pretty good against the Cowboys the previous week. Bill also had a whole week for Darnold and a short week for DJ - yeah that works both ways, true.
But, I do think Jones is a better QB than Darnold in the brief time I have seen him.
I dont see the need to even care that much about Darnold Â
Other than it makes people momentarily forget that things on this side are pretty shitty.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
He's a rookie whose played 5 games. He's getting pressured at by far the highest rate in the NFL. His WRs are also not getting separation. They are near the bottom of separation yards since the stat started getting tracked 4 years ago.
all over this board there are constant referral to “quantitatives” Â
mostly by what appears younger fans. “quantitatives” seems they way they are used here are nothing more than “statistics”. A much simpler term but which is well known, easy to understand, and invokes no mystique, no “magic” attached. if statistics alone is insufficient than it would be helpful to explain what you are adding by invoking” by “quantitatives”
perhaps a brief exposition on this topic might serve us well. But please, football is not baseball so let’s not have “billyball” contamination.
Well, since they are, yet again, one of the worst teams in football.....yes, they are.
Quote:
They are cesspools of bitching where people congregate to backslap each other about how the team doesn't use analytics, used the #2 pick to draft to make a terrible pick (Darnold would've been better?), hired the worst GM and coach possible, has the worst roster in the NFL and is going to suck for the next several years.
The fuck it is - it's just the opposite end of the spectrum.
Well, for starters, even you yourself said that you don't want Shurmur anymore, so I'm not quite understanding why that's used as an arrow intended for others.
Is the roster awful? Yes or no? Despite your obvious fondness for Dave Gettleman, would you characterize his free agent signings as successful? Outside of Barkley and maybe Lawrence and Jones, have any of his draftees looked like potential Pro Bowl talents?
Given that they are 7-16 in the Gettleman era thus far, I'd say the burden of proof is on the rose glasses crowd.
is rather that when a team is struggling, attributing every move to be a bad one, insinuating that management is incompetent at best and conspiratorial at worst, and that there is no plan to improve, is venting frustration and making wild leaps of logic.
It also promotes the folly that guys on a message board somehow have the key to success and the team just isn't carrying out those expert plans.
RE: I dont see the need to even care that much about Darnold Â
Other than it makes people momentarily forget that things on this side are pretty shitty.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
What does football do for anybody in general?
It's sports... Darnold's performance last night is a sports headline today because that's how bad he was on national television and people are talking about it.
I'd be more interested in knowing why that bothers or surprises people.
Could you imagine if we picked Barkley and the offense still struggled to score points as we limped to back to back 5-11 seasons? What a nightmare that would be.
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
He's a rookie whose played 5 games. He's getting pressured at by far the highest rate in the NFL. His WRs are also not getting separation. They are near the bottom of separation yards since the stat started getting tracked 4 years ago.
Pressure? Sure
WRs not getting separation? OK, sure.
But he has something like 4 or 5 fumbles lost in 5 starts. And he owns that.
And 7 INTs. He owns a lot of that as well.
Took over a team that had 14 wins in the two years before he got here and turned it into a team that is not going to sniff 14 wins (more like 10) in the two years since he's been here. Those were his draft picks and signings that couldn't get close enough to a back-up running back to touch him on the way to the end zone.
This Board thinks we have a lot of great prospects because they started right away after being drafted. Who was left to beat out?
Could you imagine if we picked Barkley and the offense still struggled to score points as we limped to back to back 5-11 seasons? What a nightmare that would be.
Are you saying that if we picked Darnold or Rosen the scenario would be different?
Or are we going with the "revised" scenario where we trade out of #2 and load up on OL and edge rushers because the QB's selected have sucked balls so far?
RE: RE: I dont see the need to even care that much about Darnold Â
Other than it makes people momentarily forget that things on this side are pretty shitty.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
What does football do for anybody in general?
It's sports... Darnold's performance last night is a sports headline today because that's how bad he was on national television and people are talking about it.
I'd be more interested in knowing why that bothers or surprises people.
Because it stomps SOMEWHAT on the narrative that taking Barkley over Darnold was a mistake we’d live to regret?
Could you imagine if we picked Barkley and the offense still struggled to score points as we limped to back to back 5-11 seasons? What a nightmare that would be.
Who should they have drafted? Realistically. Not in the fantasy world that you live in.
Other than it makes people momentarily forget that things on this side are pretty shitty.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
What does football do for anybody in general?
It's sports... Darnold's performance last night is a sports headline today because that's how bad he was on national television and people are talking about it.
I'd be more interested in knowing why that bothers or surprises people.
Because it stomps SOMEWHAT on the narrative that taking Barkley over Darnold was a mistake we’d live to regret?
Probably not - Barkley is now predictably becoming the poster child for everything wrong with the Giants.
Could you imagine if we picked Barkley and the offense still struggled to score points as we limped to back to back 5-11 seasons? What a nightmare that would be.
I think even you can admit that Barkley isn’t the reason for that. Was actually talking to a friend at work yesterday and said how weird it is that we simply can’t make plays work. I then asked him if Barkley and McCaffery switch teams who’d be having the great season and who’d be running in mud.
The Barkley pick was a good one. How good will be based on many factors out of his control. But I see what a creative offense does and then I see our bland, inept play calling and I simply cannot blame it on the strategy of picking Barkley.
We’ve got some talent issues for sure but I’m almost certain if we swapping coaching staffs with some other teams in the NFL it would pay immediate dividends.
Could you imagine if we picked Barkley and the offense still struggled to score points as we limped to back to back 5-11 seasons? What a nightmare that would be.
Not as bad as selecting the next franchise, HOF bound QB and still picking ahead of the pathetic Giants in the draft two seasons in a row
Who should they have drafted? Realistically. Not in the fantasy world that you live in.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
You really think Quenton Nelson would make this a winning team or even a decent team?? No they would suck just like they do now and you'd be killing them for taking an OG with the 2nd overall pick.
They are cesspools of bitching where people congregate to backslap each other about how the team doesn't use analytics, used the #2 pick to draft to make a terrible pick (Darnold would've been better?), hired the worst GM and coach possible, has the worst roster in the NFL and is going to suck for the next several years.
on how Darnold should be impacting W/L for the Jets all while on the cheap and Gettleman is a dinosaur for taking Barkley?
Who would have thought Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are the brightest spots of the 2018 draft class? And by the way, let me know if you think either of those can win a playoff game in which they have to throw the ball.
Living in Baltimore, Raven fans aren't delusional about Lamar. Most have been fairly pragmatic about his limitations, although he is slowly improving throwing the ball. All you can reasonably ask.
even the guys who proclaim to "know the answers", would still be looking at a terrible football team right now.
Would they still have patience if Darnold was under center? If Nelson was blocking? If Allen was rushing the passer?
No. They still would say we are aimless and terribly run.
Hell, Terps keeps railing against Barkley because the offense hasn't produced better returns. And we'd likely still have the same output no matter who was drafted on either side of the ball.
He wanted a tear-down. He got it. But is too damn impatient to see if it will work.
The best rushing attack the Giants have ever had was the 2008 team Â
Their RBs were a 4th round pick, a 7th round pick, and a former Jets 6th rounder who was signed as a street free agent. They ran wild because the 2008 offensive line was terrific.
Almost anyone can be a quality running back behind a good line. That's how the Broncos shuffled through a series of nondescript running backs who ran for big yardage under Shanahan. As we've seen with Barkley, you're not winning jack shit with a great running back and a terrible OL.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I dont see the need to even care that much about Darnold Â
Carolina went 11-5 after taking McCaffrey 8th overall in 2017... Dallas hasn't had a losing season since taking Elliott 4th and will probably win the division again this year.
Framing Barkley, or choosing Barkley 2nd overall as the reason why we suck is just lazy and boring. There are a lot of reasons why the Giants are bad. Saquon Barkley isn't one of them. And swapping him out with one of those QB's or Quenton Nelson or whoever we want to play fantasy hindsight with doesn't change anything.
The same logic would get us to the same point. "We still suck, therefore player X was a bad pick"
Do it with any player in the 2018 draft... we arrive at the same place.
I said REPEATEDLY before the 2018 draft that I wouldn't draft any RB Â
even the guys who proclaim to "know the answers", would still be looking at a terrible football team right now.
Would they still have patience if Darnold was under center? If Nelson was blocking? If Allen was rushing the passer?
No. They still would say we are aimless and terribly run.
Hell, Terps keeps railing against Barkley because the offense hasn't produced better returns. And we'd likely still have the same output no matter who was drafted on either side of the ball.
He wanted a tear-down. He got it. But is too damn impatient to see if it will work.
This is the truth.
Insert Quentin Nelson, or whomever else you want to onto the roster instead of Barkley, and the results would likely be the same. That is the crazy thing about this.
It's so much bigger than one player.
RE: The best rushing attack the Giants have ever had was the 2008 team Â
Their RBs were a 4th round pick, a 7th round pick, and a former Jets 6th rounder who was signed as a street free agent. They ran wild because the 2008 offensive line was terrific.
Almost anyone can be a quality running back behind a good line. That's how the Broncos shuffled through a series of nondescript running backs who ran for big yardage under Shanahan. As we've seen with Barkley, you're not winning jack shit with a great running back and a terrible OL.
You can't really run the same run blocking schemes the Broncos did back then, though... that's not a great example. All of the cut blocking doesn't fly now.
I'm all about prioritizing the offensive line. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. Dallas has both and used essentially the same investment on their RB - and they've now paid him a 2nd contract. Why can't the Giants? It's not like drafting a RB 2nd overall strips you of the necessary assets to build a strong offensive line.
Signing guys like Nate Solder are much bigger roadblocks to success than drafting elite RB's.
Barkley and Nelson were BY FAR the two best players Â
They've won one playoff game in three seasons with Elliott. In 2017, when Elliott missed some games, their record with him was 6-4 and their record without him was 3-3. Alfred Morris' washed up ass actually had better numbers in his place.
Elliott is nothing special. He runs behind a great OL, that's all.
Their RBs were a 4th round pick, a 7th round pick, and a former Jets 6th rounder who was signed as a street free agent. They ran wild because the 2008 offensive line was terrific.
Almost anyone can be a quality running back behind a good line. That's how the Broncos shuffled through a series of nondescript running backs who ran for big yardage under Shanahan. As we've seen with Barkley, you're not winning jack shit with a great running back and a terrible OL.
Well let's look at that offensive line, shall we?
Dave Diehl LT: 5th round pick 2003
Rich Seubert: LG Undrafted FA 2001
Shaun O'hara: C Undrafted FA 2000 traded to Giants in 2004
Chris Snee: RG 2nd round pick 2004
Kareem McKenzie: RT 3rd round pick 2001, signed as FA by Giants in 2005.
So that line was built in varying degrees by drafting, trading, and signing FA's over the course of four years, then an additional two-three years of playing together to become the line it did in 2008.
Dave Gettleman was supposed to do all of that in one offseason?
Those of you jumping in to point out the Giants are also bad Â
What is the point of that? Do you think anyone here thinks the Giants are a decent team? The Jets are the other team in town, they play in the same building, we all at least formed an opinion about drafting Darnold and it’s natural to keep tabs on a guy you passed up with the second pick in the draft. Of course a performance like that is newsworthy around here. It would be notable if it was Trubisky or any other QB taken with a premium pick but the fact that it’s Darnold and the Jets will obviously stand out more.
The Darnold led Jets are a big story in their own right. If you are a Giants fan who lives outside the NY metro area I guess it’s understandable that a performance like that wouldn’t necessarily carry extra weight (even then I think it would because of the draft connection).
If you live in the area though the Jets are basically your second team by default - they get half the coverage in local papers and on the radio, they are on TV every week. I know more about the Jets than any team in the NFL aside from the Giants and it is not even close. The only real difference between the Giants and the Jets is I don’t root for the Jets on Sunday. But otherwise I’m hearing about them nearly as much as the Giants.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
The Colts first three picks would have been a dream for the Giants. Nelson and Braden Smith was my dream draft, but I would have been good with Chubb and Smith too.
I mean just absolutely bad across the board, he was completely panicked from play to play. If Jones had done that he'd be swept into the bust bin, but Darnold gets a pass...why? I truly don't understand the hill that Jones has to climb to even be considered a decent prospect while Darnold can have one good game, shit the bed plenty and he's a golden child either way.
RE: Why do people always use Dallas as some kind of blueprint? Â
They've won one playoff game in three seasons with Elliott. In 2017, when Elliott missed some games, their record with him was 6-4 and their record without him was 3-3. Alfred Morris' washed up ass actually had better numbers in his place.
Elliott is nothing special. He runs behind a great OL, that's all.
Elliott is an excellent player. I couldn't disagree more.
They haven't had a losing year since they drafted Elliott. They were 4-12 the year before they drafted him.
I'm pretty sure we'd be complaining a lot less if we were in their place.
Would you switch places with Dallas right now if you could? I would.
They've been a heck of a lot smarter than we've been in how they've approached their team and keep fielding competitive ones that win the division or are in the mix right up until the end.
Dallas also leads the entire NFL in offensive yards... with that RB they took 4th overall and have now paid.
13 wins, 9 wins, 10 wins... and they'll win the division this year again.
Blueprint or not, they've been a heck of a lot better than us lately and have been embarrassing us on the field just the same.
Gettleman's "great football resume", the one he always likes to remind us about, but I am certain I wouldn't have made this colossal mistake:
Keeping Eli.
Do you think that was a DG move? Honest question. If you do then yes, I'd been fine with the DG criticism for it but I for one don't think he had a choice.
And if that's the case then its just really hard to critique when that's been the biggest decision the franchise has faced in 15 years.
RE: RE: The best rushing attack the Giants have ever had was the 2008 team Â
Dave Gettleman was supposed to do all of that in one offseason?
Oh no, Alibi Ike put quite a bit of work into supposedly fixing the line. He made brilliant moves like signing Nate fucking Solder's worthless ass to the biggest OL contract in the league.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
The Colts first three picks would have been a dream for the Giants. Nelson and Braden Smith was my dream draft, but I would have been good with Chubb and Smith too.
Chubb has a fantastic year last season and the Broncos still sucked. They were just as bad as the Giants. The Broncos didn’t get their first win of this season until Chubb after went on IR. Yet I don’t see people killing him as a bad pick based on team results for some reason. That’s reserved for Barkley around here
Sure, they'll win the division again because the division is trash Â
As for Dallas' playoff record, i'm blaming their HC first and foremost. He looks lost in big games, always has. Coaching matters, shouldn't we know that by now?
jets fans are catatonic today over his performance. as they should be. they also have his Dallas performance to latch onto for hope.
Gettleman has hand picked this OL-
the LT he overpaid sucks
the RT we held out making any moves for is horrible
the RG we traded for is hurt and playing average
the Center is awful
the LG is good.
i don't have a major issue with Barkley other than a big reason they drafted him was because they actually were dumb enough to think they could compete in 2018 after the 2017 debacle... and the top talent at RB would be a huge addition to help with the Eli comeback campaign. that was dead wrong, and the franchise rebuild has been delayed because of that stupidity.
In the hundred years of this league, it is extremely rare Â
that teams will ever pass on drafting extremely high generational RBs of the quality of a Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, AP and SB, to name a few. It just isn’t done. It will never, ever, be done imv..There have been other backs who were drafted high and flamed out, but they were never considered generational..
We are so fucking lucky to have such a back in SB..And now, we may have completed a “bifecta” with the drafting of DJ, but at the moment, too soon to know.
I'm not going to sit here and treat playoff losses like a monumental failure when the Giants can't even get there anymore. I'd love to trade places with the Cowboys and at least have a chance rather than stare down the barrel again at another lifeless 5 win season.
Elliott was an all pro as a rookie and has lead the entire league in rushing in both of his healthy seasons. He's not just some guy along for the ride behind a dominant OL... their OL has had a bunch of injuries lately.
And yes, it's not all their offense... they have a good defense too.
How could that be possible if they drafted a RB in the top 5? Reading posts on this board, you'd think it was some sort of miracle.
If you draft well and don't waste cap dollars overpaying over the hill guys in free agency or guys who just flat suck, it's amazing what happens.
and along those lines, when people talk about players being fungible, they often confuse the vast middle ground of average players with elite players.
elite players aren't fungible. And average players at every position are fungible. That's why Nick Foles is fungible. Or today's version of Cam Newton. Or Eli. Wait a minute - QB's aren't supposed to be fungible!!
Gettleman's "great football resume", the one he always likes to remind us about, but I am certain I wouldn't have made this colossal mistake:
Keeping Eli.
Do you think that was a DG move? Honest question. If you do then yes, I'd been fine with the DG criticism for it but I for one don't think he had a choice.
And if that's the case then its just really hard to critique when that's been the biggest decision the franchise has faced in 15 years.
Here how I think it went with Eli.
In 2018, Gettleman was following marching orders from Mara to keep Eli. So I think that was out of his hands. And he wanted the job. Which required, IMV, committing to keep Eli as the QB.
Coming into this year? Different story. I think keeping Eli for 2019 was Gettleman's choice. He knew he was drafting a QB - essentially admitted it draft post-mortem - and envisioned Eli the mentor, the eventual baton passing, etc.
Tell me, what makes Elliott so special? Dalvin Cook was a second round pick running behind an OL inferior to Elliott's, but he's averaging almost a yard more per carry and run for more yards. Nick Chubb is another second round pick with a lesser OL and he's having a better season than Elliott.
2018, Elliott led the league in rushing yards....because he also led the league in rushing attempts. Wasn't in the top ten in either TDs or YPC.
I'm not going to sit here and treat playoff losses like a monumental failure when the Giants can't even get there anymore. I'd love to trade places with the Cowboys and at least have a chance rather than stare down the barrel again at another lifeless 5 win season.
Dallas was in a very different position in 2016 than the Giants were last year. They were coming off a 4-win season mainly because Romo was hurt. They were 12-4 the year prior, they had talent. You can make a luxury pick in that spot. The Giants did not have that luxury in 2018.
Chubb has a fantastic year last season and the Broncos still sucked. They were just as bad as the Giants. The Broncos didn’t get their first win of this season until Chubb after went on IR. Yet I don’t see people killing him as a bad pick based on team results for some reason. That’s reserved for Barkley around here
Because Barkley's skills will erode much faster than Chubb's. I don't think there's a person on this board that thinks Barkley isn't a fantastic player. The difference is that Chubb and Nelson are much more likely to anchor their positions for 5-10 years.
Dalvin Cook is a 1st round talent who dropped because of concerns over his shoulder. It didn't require the same investment to draft him, but he should be a good case for how a great RB can elevate your offense rather than a cautionary tale...
RE: In the hundred years of this league, it is extremely rare Â
that teams will ever pass on drafting extremely high generational RBs of the quality of a Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, AP and SB, to name a few. It just isn’t done. It will never, ever, be done imv..There have been other backs who were drafted high and flamed out, but they were never considered generational..
We are so fucking lucky to have such a back in SB..And now, we may have completed a “bifecta” with the drafting of DJ, but at the moment, too soon to know.
Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
You just don't need a great/transcendent RB to compete and win the biggest prizes. That part of the equation no longer applies. Hell, we proved it in 2008 and 2011.
It's just wiser to invest your limited cap dollars into other areas that are more critical for success.
The best way to play the RB game is to recycle to a new group every 2-3 years. And do it < the league average for the position.
Because Barkley's skills will erode much faster than Chubb's. I don't think there's a person on this board that thinks Barkley isn't a fantastic player. The difference is that Chubb and Nelson are much more likely to anchor their positions for 5-10 years.
That's mostly right - in theory. Barkley could always break the mold. But even if he does it doesn't mean anything because RBs just don't have the same impact on winning anymore. Their win-share value is < than QBs, WRs, TEs, and Kickers.
And I gave Gettleman credit for doing it. They should have let him go after it was done, because the team he is constructing is a complete mess.
And more mistakes are on the way. Next up are some big free agent contracts this offseason because we'll be "ready to compete" in 2020. After that will be making Barkley the highest paid back in the league.
Because Barkley's skills will erode much faster than Chubb's. I don't think there's a person on this board that thinks Barkley isn't a fantastic player. The difference is that Chubb and Nelson are much more likely to anchor their positions for 5-10 years.
That's mostly right - in theory. Barkley could always break the mold. But even if he does it doesn't mean anything because RBs just don't have the same impact on winning anymore. Their win-share value is < than QBs, WRs, TEs, and Kickers.
Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
RE: In the hundred years of this league, it is extremely rare Â
that teams will ever pass on drafting extremely high generational RBs of the quality of a Jim Brown, Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, AP and SB, to name a few. It just isn’t done. It will never, ever, be done imv..There have been other backs who were drafted high and flamed out, but they were never considered generational..
We are so fucking lucky to have such a back in SB..And now, we may have completed a “bifecta” with the drafting of DJ, but at the moment, too soon to know.
Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
The whole cheap QB thing is nearly as widespread either. Going back 15 years?
The majority of those titles have been won by
Manning, Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers and Ben
The Hawks did it but then guess what? They paid Russ. That seems to be working pretty well!
Flacco and Foles seem to be a bit of an anomaly.
But to your point FatMan, total agreement. Outside of the Pats, where is "the plan" to point to for how to build?
and I understand. We gotta VENT. We are in the middle of the "Upside Down" (Sorry JUST started watching Stranger Things and its GOOD) with no signs of knowing how to get out. Just lost. For every good game we have we seem to have 4 horrible games.
But getting back to Darnold, he's got a very similar situation to DJ in that his Headcoach is a good QB whisperer but a bad HC. He's got a decent running back and ......does he have a tight end or a receiver equal to Even Engram or Shepard or Tate? I am in FMiC's camp of being sick of hearing how we should have drafted Darnold and not Barkley, but he's still got Mono, he's got no OL and old Goofy Eyes gave him one of the worst pep talks I've ever heard mid game. The hyperbole on this board and in the media as well is utterly ridiculous.
They've won one playoff game in three seasons with Elliott. In 2017, when Elliott missed some games, their record with him was 6-4 and their record without him was 3-3. Alfred Morris' washed up ass actually had better numbers in his place.
Elliott is nothing special. He runs behind a great OL, that's all.
Elliott is an excellent player. I couldn't disagree more.
They haven't had a losing year since they drafted Elliott. They were 4-12 the year before they drafted him.
I'm pretty sure we'd be complaining a lot less if we were in their place.
Would you switch places with Dallas right now if you could? I would.
They've been a heck of a lot smarter than we've been in how they've approached their team and keep fielding competitive ones that win the division or are in the mix right up until the end.
Dallas also leads the entire NFL in offensive yards... with that RB they took 4th overall and have now paid.
13 wins, 9 wins, 10 wins... and they'll win the division this year again.
Blueprint or not, they've been a heck of a lot better than us lately and have been embarrassing us on the field just the same.
+1 To say Elliot isn't a special player is just being a homer and a foolish one at that. (I hate him as much as any giants fan)
Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
The whole cheap QB thing is nearly as widespread either. Going back 15 years?
The majority of those titles have been won by
Manning, Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers and Ben
The Hawks did it but then guess what? They paid Russ. That seems to be working pretty well!
Flacco and Foles seem to be a bit of an anomaly.
But to your point FatMan, total agreement. Outside of the Pats, where is "the plan" to point to for how to build?
Speaking of the Hawks two SB runs in 2013 and 2014 (one win, which should have been two if they had RUN the ball instead of passing it but I digress), didn't they have a 1st round, all pro (2013, 2014), who also led the NFL in rushing TD's both years (2013, 2014)? Did he contribute at all?
RE: RE: RE: Why do people always use Dallas as some kind of blueprint? Â
Tell me, what makes Elliott so special? Dalvin Cook was a second round pick running behind an OL inferior to Elliott's, but he's averaging almost a yard more per carry and run for more yards. Nick Chubb is another second round pick with a lesser OL and he's having a better season than Elliott.
2018, Elliott led the league in rushing yards....because he also led the league in rushing attempts. Wasn't in the top ten in either TDs or YPC.
Wow Greg, that's some insight, you found players selected in different rounds who are good. Congrats?
Someone earlier just listed the Giants Oline from the Super Bowl, no Quentin Nelsons there at #2 overall, so does that mean we should never look to upgrade the line with a top 3 pick?
Taking a great player at 2 was the goal and we succeeded. If the Giants still suck you should look elsewhere because Barkley isn't the reason why. We'd also still suck with Darnold. We likely still suck with Nelson. There's a larger issue here and I think its more to do with what we can't see than what we can see, but that isn't fun to post about because it isn't tangible so here we are.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Why do people always use Dallas as some kind of blueprint? Â
Could you imagine if we picked Barkley and the offense still struggled to score points as we limped to back to back 5-11 seasons? What a nightmare that would be.
Back to back 5-11 seasons actually sounds optimistic at this point.
Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
The Pats took Michel with the lower of their TWO first round picks in 2018. And it wasn't a premium pick...like the #2 pick in the draft.
Do we have to do this exercise again? Let's do the last twelve SB champs.
2008 NYG RBs: Bradshaw & Jacobs
2009 Pitt RBs: Parker & Davenport
2010 NO RBs: Thomas & Bell
2011 GB RBs: Starks & Jackson
2012 NYG RBs: Bradshaw & Jacobs
2013 BALT RBs: Rice & Leach
2014 SEA RBs: Lynch & Robinson
2015 PATS RBs: Blount & Bolden
2016 DEN RBs: Anderson & Hillman
2017 PATS RBs: Blount, White, Lewis, etc.
2018 PHI RBs: Ajayi, Blount, Smallwood, Clement, etc
2019 PATS RBs: White, Burkett, etc
So notice the player I put in bold. You're a smart guy. What do you think it means?
So, your position is that the only possible alternative to Flowers Â
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
RE: So, your position is that the only possible alternative to Flowers Â
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
I just want to know what alternative was there besides either keeping Flowers and doing nothing or signing Solder.
To me, keeping Flowers was no longer acceptable. Â
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
Remember how people were touting Gettleman's ability to find players at lower levels in the draft, pointing specifically to Andrew Norwell?
That one seemed to have died down after the Giants were held at gunpoint and forced to pay Solder.
the guy who played last week against the Cowboys with the guy who just played the Patriots. Given the Patriots defense is much better than Dallas', but the difference in performance was drastic.
The guy seemed spooked to play the Patriots which may speak to a larger problem than inconsistency.
Which makes the play of Our rookie Danny Jones even that much more impressive. (With no Barkley or Ingram )
I don't think a lot of people saw an impressive performance by Jones against the Patriots. I read that on BBI quite a bit, but nowhere else.
RE: To me, keeping Flowers was no longer acceptable. Â
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
Remember how people were touting Gettleman's ability to find players at lower levels in the draft, pointing specifically to Andrew Norwell?
That one seemed to have died down after the Giants were held at gunpoint and forced to pay Solder.
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
No but you are using hindsight. At the time EVERYONE was screaming for anything on the OL and were pissed we missed out on Norwell to TC. At the time the next biggest name was Solder and if you got the money honey, he's got the time....if the Giants had stuck with Flowers and we had the same performance for 2 years, I wonder what you would be saying about Gettleman now.
but while I was against the Barkley pick, once we took him, I did not understand the point of trading Beckham.
For what it's worth, I think Lawrence is going to be a stud, and if OBJ continues to put up pedestrian numbers on the Browns, it could be decent value and turn out to be an okay trade.
But Barkley and OBJ are players that would have increased eachothers efficiency.
and while there's this weird revisionist history that Zeitler and Vernon were part of the OBJ trade, they were not, and you could have gotten Zeitler without pulling the trigger on OBJ.
Who knows, maybe Xman will blossom, but Peppers is not going to live up to his draft billing, and this defense still sucks.
Trading OBJ was a bad move in my opinion, after you drafted Barkley and got a rookie (and mobile, not running but mobile) QB.
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
He's a rookie whose played 5 games. He's getting pressured at by far the highest rate in the NFL. His WRs are also not getting separation. They are near the bottom of separation yards since the stat started getting tracked 4 years ago.
I have little doubt SS and Tate could get tons of separation in a Gilbride type offense like Cruz and Smith, not Shemur's spacing routes against Tampa 2. The Zona CB was already raising his fist in celebration as soon as DJ8 threw his 1st interception.
No good, very bad day. Let's see how he responds. He's barely 22 years old hasn't played a full season worth of games, came up against the league's best defense, maybe an all-time great defense on national TV. His coaches were also seeing ghosts. The Jets got full Belichicked. Eli Manning had games like that early in his career. So did Peyton, Troy Aikman, etc. The jury on Darnold hasn't even been seated yet. We'll see. I really don't like the Jets and a lot of their fans. But I still feel bad for this kid. And, btw, another lesson on how hard it is to find a franchise, championship-capable QB in this league. Darnold may, indeed, be in that category. So might Daniel Jones. Nobody knows yet.
No good, very bad day. Let's see how he responds. He's barely 22 years old hasn't played a full season worth of games, came up against the league's best defense, maybe an all-time great defense on national TV. His coaches were also seeing ghosts. The Jets got full Belichicked. Eli Manning had games like that early in his career. So did Peyton, Troy Aikman, etc. The jury on Darnold hasn't even been seated yet. We'll see. I really don't like the Jets and a lot of their fans. But I still feel bad for this kid. And, btw, another lesson on how hard it is to find a franchise, championship-capable QB in this league. Darnold may, indeed, be in that category. So might Daniel Jones. Nobody knows yet.
Other players sucking and other fans having wanted those players is such a lame ass consolation.
True most of the time, but the implosion, the utter rage by more than some over us passing on Darnold was so profound, many of us, being human, were immediately against his being as productive as his sploogers said he would be (and still might be. Way too early to be definitive one way or the other.)
Is that a child-like reaction? You bet, but again, we’re human.
is in Year 2. He's talking about seeing ghosts and throwing off his back foot and ducking away from pressure.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
This feels a little revisionist. Eli was hardly a finished product as a second year player. That he wasn't mic'd up to get a juicy sound clip from doesn't mean he didn't have some of the same issues. In his first three years, he was 2nd, 4th, and 1st in interceptions.
is in Year 2. He's talking about seeing ghosts and throwing off his back foot and ducking away from pressure.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
I totally agree. The Jets have a real problem here. And potentially a big problem. Not only does Darnold keep struggling with the physical elements of the game - his footwork is just all of the place from game to game - but there now appears to a real issue with the mental part of the game.
is literally the worst QB performance ever. 37-14 loss.
0.0 rating 4/18 for 27 yards and 2 ints.
Eli in his 4th season in 2007 vs MN wasn't much better. 41-17 loss.
33.8 rating 21/49 for 273 yards 4 ints 3 returned for TDs.
In. His. Fourth. Year.
Quote:
With Peyton watching in the stands, Darren Sharper, Dwight Smith and Chad Greenway picked off passes by Eli and returned them for touchdowns in leading the Vikings to a 41-17 victory over the New York Giants on Sunday.
"It's not necessarily that we have a good read on Eli," Sharper said. "I just think we have played well against him the last couple of times."
Well isn't the word. Great is. The Vikings (5-6) have picked off Manning eight times in the two games, scoring on four of those picks and coming close on another.
Two months later he was Super Bowl MVP.
Young QBs get abused by good coaches and good teams. Both Jones and Darnold are going through it at the same time. The "seeing ghosts" quote was about misreading the defense.
I think the next move for the Baghdad Bob crew is to storm Eric's basement and eat pizza and hold a press conference .
IMO he is destined for a Matt Leinert type career, who was also a 1st Rd QB selection from USC. These guys play with a team of college all-stars, so they always look better than they really are (sort of the opposite of DJ).
IMO he is destined for a Matt Leinert type career, who was also a 1st Rd QB selection from USC. These guys play with a team of college all-stars, so they always look better than they really are (sort of the opposite of DJ).
He played with one of the worst olines in Power 5 football and boozebag for a coach, but he did have a ton of skill talent.
Darnold didn't play with anything remotely resembling a "college all-star team".
USC had 13 players drafted in the 3 drafts around Darnold, 2017-2019. Many were top picks, and on offense he had college weapons like Juju Shuster and Ronald Jones to play with.
USC certainly is always one of the most talented teams in college football.
back from his injury. My guess is that his overall play will be somewhere between those two extremes - closer to the first one. When both Darnold and Jones have a 2 or 3 seasons under their belt, I think they'll both be thought of as good quarterbacks, but Jones will be the better one. He's smarter and overall more accurate.
58% completions,
3,464 total yards (216 per game, yahoo!)
20 passing TD's (1.2 per game)
20 Ints (1.2 per game)
7 fumbles, 3 lost (so 23 turnovers, or 1.4 per game!)
58% completions,
3,464 total yards (216 per game, yahoo!)
20 passing TD's (1.2 per game)
20 Ints (1.2 per game)
7 fumbles, 3 lost (so 23 turnovers, or 1.4 per game!)
Sure looks like a HOF player to me.
Let the spinning begin.
For a rookie QB, those full year stats aren't unusual. For example, Peyton Manning had 26 TDs and 28 INTs his rookie year at a 57% completion rate. And he lost three fumbles. That's 31 total turnovers. And he had Faulk and Harrison on that team.
I liked Darnold at SC. He's got some very good natural skills. Thought he had an excellent workout in the rain at SC before the draft. But he obviously had warts coming in the league - turnover prone and lacking pocket fundamentals. So there were things to work on.
But so far I don't see ANY improvement since he came into the league.
Gase, who I like, really has his work cut out for him to make sure Dardold doesn't fall completely into the QB abyss...
58% completions,
3,464 total yards (216 per game, yahoo!)
20 passing TD's (1.2 per game)
20 Ints (1.2 per game)
7 fumbles, 3 lost (so 23 turnovers, or 1.4 per game!)
Sure looks like a HOF player to me.
Let the spinning begin.
For a rookie QB, those full year stats aren't unusual. For example, Peyton Manning had 26 TDs and 28 INTs his rookie year at a 57% completion rate. And he lost three fumbles. That's 31 total turnovers. And he had Faulk and Harrison on that team.
I liked Darnold at SC. He's got some very good natural skills. Thought he had an excellent workout in the rain at SC before the draft. But he obviously had warts coming in the league - turnover prone and lacking pocket fundamentals. So there were things to work on.
But so far I don't see ANY improvement since he came into the league.
Gase, who I like, really has his work cut out for him to make sure Dardold doesn't fall completely into the QB abyss...
It will be a problem if he leads the league in INTs for years at a time in his prime. We should be familiar with that.
It will be a problem if he leads the league in INTs for years at a time in his prime. We should be familiar with that.
There was definitely a socialism aspect to Eli's game. He was more than willing to throwing passes to everyone - including the other team at a very high rate... ;)
RE: RE: RE: RE: The great Darnold, by his own stats: Â
It will be a problem if he leads the league in INTs for years at a time in his prime. We should be familiar with that.
There was definitely a socialism aspect to Eli's game. He was more than willing to throwing passes to everyone - including the other team at a very high rate... ;)
For YEARS at a time. :)
RE: Gotta have something to be happy about as a Giants fan Â
Is the shitting on Eli Manning stuff really necessary at this point?
I'd expect a little better from you guys. He's not the starter anymore and he gave this franchise all he could - including taking us to the promised land twice.
Most of us realized it was time to move on, but now that we have, I don't think it's really necessary to keep trashing the guy and making jokes about him. You guys sound like Jets fans.
I never thought fans would kick a guy like Eli on his way out the door - but here we are. He deserves better than that... but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Enjoy.
Seems like the concept of the OP and this whole thread Â
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Look, if having immense respect for the QB who was available every single Sunday for us for 15 fucking years, the QB who brought us two championships, the QB who handled himself with class at every juncture, the guy who always represented NYG the right way... if that makes me a 'fanboy' or part of some imaginary fanclub, you know what?
Sign me the fuck up and send me a badge.
I'd much rather be that than the one still making jokes about him throwing INT's and playing poorly after he's already been benched and his career is, for all intents and purposes, over.
But to each their own. :) If you guys get your rocks off by trashing a Giants legend who left it all out on the field for you, so be it.
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
It is kind of shifty but it wasn’t me nor do I think you were surprised. It’s also only a few so shake it off if it bothers you so much. Always wonder why posters extrapolate a minority they don’t like over into a larger group.
And you’re not part of the fan club from my viewpoint...you seem to like to ride somewhere in the middle. A bit more level headed than some of the defender fanatics...
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
It is kind of shifty but it wasn’t me nor do I think you were surprised. It’s also only a few so shake it off if it bothers you so much. Always wonder why posters extrapolate a minority they don’t like over into a larger group.
And you’re not part of the fan club from my viewpoint...you seem to like to ride somewhere in the middle. A bit more level headed than some of the defender fanatics...
I'm not losing sleep over it - it's just something I noticed and commented on. It took me 2 minutes to post that. I just don't really understand it, but again... to each their own.
I think I was pretty reasonable regarding Eli these last few years - to lump me in as some sort of apologist who made excuses for him at every turn is just not true and not fair.
In comment 14644169 arcarsenal said:
[quote] In comment 14644166 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14644164 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Ah, now I'm part of the "EFC"
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
It is kind of shifty but it wasn’t me nor do I think you were surprised. It’s also only a few so shake it off if it bothers you so much. Always wonder why posters extrapolate a minority they don’t like over into a larger group.
And you’re not part of the fan club from my viewpoint...you seem to like to ride somewhere in the middle. A bit more level headed than some of the defender fanatics...
I'm not losing sleep over it - it's just something I noticed and commented on. It took me 2 minutes to post that. I just don't really understand it, but again... to each their own.
I think I was pretty reasonable regarding Eli these last few years - to lump me in as some sort of apologist who made excuses for him at every turn is just not true and not fair. [/quote
I think you are more guilty by association as it seems those debates were like pack hunters / raptors going at it. And you had a few favorites :-)
Is the shitting on Eli Manning stuff really necessary at this point?
I'd expect a little better from you guys. He's not the starter anymore and he gave this franchise all he could - including taking us to the promised land twice.
Most of us realized it was time to move on, but now that we have, I don't think it's really necessary to keep trashing the guy and making jokes about him. You guys sound like Jets fans.
I never thought fans would kick a guy like Eli on his way out the door - but here we are. He deserves better than that... but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Welcome to the club.
All new members get a gift, an Eco-Drive Citizen watch. Look for yours in the mail.
but it could be. We saw Mark Sanchez's career spiral out of control with the media mocking him every step of the way. This won't go away until Darnold put the team on his back and delivers.
This is massive game for him this weekend. He can forget everything from last week and elevate his play to compete against a tough D on the road, or he can unravel. Big game.
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Welcome to the club.
All new members get a gift, an Eco-Drive Citizen watch. Look for yours in the mail.
If I'm getting one of these watches, you can definitely fucking count me in!
fun, fucking times.
The guy seemed spooked to play the Patriots which may speak to a larger problem than inconsistency.
fun, fucking times.
They came out the woodwork last Monday. So annoying, and it comes down to that reactionary crap you posted about. My generation has made strides on previous ones in lots of ways, but the instant changes of the winds is not one of them.
So better, but no bragging rights there.
...SUCK!
So better, but no bragging rights there.
And yet, we felt pretty good about his performance the next morning, and were in the game in the 4th quarter.
Also, the Patriots defense has only allowed ONE passing TD this year.
So better, but no bragging rights there.
On a short week, with windy conditions (not sure how that compared to last night), his top 2 RBs and his top 2 receiving options all sidelined.
1. Selecting Shurmur
2. Trading Odell
3. Benching of Eli (because Shurmur is coach)
4. FA pickups (Solder especially)
5. Draft picks
6. Selecting Jones at #6
Granted, it does appear DG got # 1 wrong and much of #4, but the other 4 he got right. So, yes, while it is becoming apparent DG has dropped the ball on some decisions, most of what he is doing is preparing us to be a much better team for 2020 and beyond, unfortunately, not this year. He may have to cut ties with Shurmur if he doesn’t show us something in the remaining 9 games and hopefully he makes much better decisions bringing people in here this offseason.
Who would have thought Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are the brightest spots of the 2018 draft class? And by the way, let me know if you think either of those can win a playoff game in which they have to throw the ball.
The guy seemed spooked to play the Patriots which may speak to a larger problem than inconsistency.
Which makes the play of Our rookie Danny Jones even that much more impressive. (With no Barkley or Ingram )
So better, but no bragging rights there.
To be fair, the weather conditions last Thursday were terrible. Darnold was at home, good weather conditions and he’s not a rookie.
So better, but no bragging rights there.
I expect better thinking from you 125....the weather was horrible....especially the high winds,plus DJ had no protection again and no playmakers other than Tate to play with.
That is amazing
That is amazing
And still the ONLY one.
More like Chernobyl
Couple that with Darnold’s horribly inconsistent footwork and they have a huge problem at Jets Central.
Darnold is still really a rookie. He missed some games last year and missed some this year.
Has he even played 16 full games yet?
1. Selecting Shurmur
2. Trading Odell
3. Benching of Eli (because Shurmur is coach)
4. FA pickups (Solder especially)
5. Draft picks
6. Selecting Jones at #6
Granted, it does appear DG got # 1 wrong and much of #4, but the other 4 he got right. So, yes, while it is becoming apparent DG has dropped the ball on some decisions, most of what he is doing is preparing us to be a much better team for 2020 and beyond, unfortunately, not this year. He may have to cut ties with Shurmur if he doesn’t show us something in the remaining 9 games and hopefully he makes much better decisions bringing people in here this offseason.
I'm definitely in the camp that supports DG's first two Drafts. But hiring Shurmur and paying through the nose for Solder were the type of mistakes that will set this franchise back for years.
That was as close as you'll see right in front of your eyes a young QB's confidence crumbling to dust.
I genuinely felt sorry for him when Gase was talking to him before the final drive of the half. Gase knew it. Frankly, I think they should have sat him down. He was clearly overmatched.
fun, fucking times.
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DG haters who want to find fault for ANYTHING OR EVERYTHING he has done:
1. Selecting Shurmur
2. Trading Odell
3. Benching of Eli (because Shurmur is coach)
4. FA pickups (Solder especially)
5. Draft picks
6. Selecting Jones at #6
Granted, it does appear DG got # 1 wrong and much of #4, but the other 4 he got right. So, yes, while it is becoming apparent DG has dropped the ball on some decisions, most of what he is doing is preparing us to be a much better team for 2020 and beyond, unfortunately, not this year. He may have to cut ties with Shurmur if he doesn’t show us something in the remaining 9 games and hopefully he makes much better decisions bringing people in here this offseason.
I'm definitely in the camp that supports DG's first two Drafts. But hiring Shurmur and paying through the nose for Solder were the type of mistakes that will set this franchise back for years.
Like I said, Hopefully he Makes the adjustments to rectify those decisions (Cutting Shurmur). I know he probably can’t trade Solder or cut him, but maybe Solder turns it around like he did last year in the second half.
...SUCK!
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
So basically, 60 minutes of dead air!!
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Jones is a rookie. Darnold is in his second season.
Darnold is still really a rookie. He missed some games last year and missed some this year.
Has he even played 16 full games yet?
Stop this talk.....he played 13 of the 16 and all of the preseason.
What should we do, wallow in the the corner crying about the Giants? It’s a game, the Jets suck too, it’s funny.
Not just the seeing ghosts stuff. But the mechanics... the footwork. Holy cow. That was horrific. It was so bad that I'd have actual concerns about Darnold moving forward.
He looked like a guy who was scared to get hit.
One of the worst QB performances I've seen in recent years. I think he had -2 yards at the 2min warning.
Jones had a tough one on Sunday too, but at least the guy hung in there and wasn't afraid of contact.
Last night actually made me question whether or not Darnold is the guy for the Jets. That's how bad he was.
Granted... we saw some equally bad shit from Eli further into his career than this. But just the sheer shittiness of his mechanics last night and everything about the way he played... yikes.
Are the dozens of threads talking about how bad the Giants are making the situation better or even cathartic?
Didn't think so.
Giants fans have become Redskins fans in all their delusional glory. Never thought I'd see the day, but here we are.
Don't really understand that line of thinking.
We know the Giants suck. Not sure why that means we can't talk about a primetime MNF game that aired last night.
Darnold was horrendous. It's a football board. People are talking about it. BFD.
The day I actually give a shit about the failures of millionaires playing a game will be the first.
They are cesspools of bitching where people congregate to backslap each other about how the team doesn't use analytics, used the #2 pick to draft to make a terrible pick (Darnold would've been better?), hired the worst GM and coach possible, has the worst roster in the NFL and is going to suck for the next several years.
That's clear-thinking non-delusional observations?
The fuck it is - it's just the opposite end of the spectrum.
Not on my house Goddamnit. No fun here!
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...SUCK!
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
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Daniel Jones: 15/31 – 161 yards – 1 TD / 3 INT / 35.2 QBR vs the Patriots in NE.
So better, but no bragging rights there.
I expect better thinking from you 125....the weather was horrible....especially the high winds,plus DJ had no protection again and no playmakers other than Tate to play with.
Just a reference to offset the Darnold hanging crowd. Darnold looked pretty good against the Cowboys the previous week. Bill also had a whole week for Darnold and a short week for DJ - yeah that works both ways, true.
But, I do think Jones is a better QB than Darnold in the brief time I have seen him.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
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In comment 14640408 M.S. said:
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...SUCK!
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
He's a rookie whose played 5 games. He's getting pressured at by far the highest rate in the NFL. His WRs are also not getting separation. They are near the bottom of separation yards since the stat started getting tracked 4 years ago.
perhaps a brief exposition on this topic might serve us well. But please, football is not baseball so let’s not have “billyball” contamination.
It's not the results during this Decade of Darkness. It's the effort by all of the wonderful people at Jints Central.
And to not appreciate that is obtuse.
Well, since they are, yet again, one of the worst teams in football.....yes, they are.
That's clear-thinking non-delusional observations?
The fuck it is - it's just the opposite end of the spectrum.
Well, for starters, even you yourself said that you don't want Shurmur anymore, so I'm not quite understanding why that's used as an arrow intended for others.
Is the roster awful? Yes or no? Despite your obvious fondness for Dave Gettleman, would you characterize his free agent signings as successful? Outside of Barkley and maybe Lawrence and Jones, have any of his draftees looked like potential Pro Bowl talents?
Given that they are 7-16 in the Gettleman era thus far, I'd say the burden of proof is on the rose glasses crowd.
It also promotes the folly that guys on a message board somehow have the key to success and the team just isn't carrying out those expert plans.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
What does football do for anybody in general?
It's sports... Darnold's performance last night is a sports headline today because that's how bad he was on national television and people are talking about it.
I'd be more interested in knowing why that bothers or surprises people.
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In comment 14640461 BestFeature said:
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In comment 14640408 M.S. said:
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...SUCK!
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
He's a rookie whose played 5 games. He's getting pressured at by far the highest rate in the NFL. His WRs are also not getting separation. They are near the bottom of separation yards since the stat started getting tracked 4 years ago.
Pressure? Sure
WRs not getting separation? OK, sure.
But he has something like 4 or 5 fumbles lost in 5 starts. And he owns that.
And 7 INTs. He owns a lot of that as well.
Connection?
This Board thinks we have a lot of great prospects because they started right away after being drafted. Who was left to beat out?
Are you saying that if we picked Darnold or Rosen the scenario would be different?
Or are we going with the "revised" scenario where we trade out of #2 and load up on OL and edge rushers because the QB's selected have sucked balls so far?
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Other than it makes people momentarily forget that things on this side are pretty shitty.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
What does football do for anybody in general?
It's sports... Darnold's performance last night is a sports headline today because that's how bad he was on national television and people are talking about it.
I'd be more interested in knowing why that bothers or surprises people.
Because it stomps SOMEWHAT on the narrative that taking Barkley over Darnold was a mistake we’d live to regret?
Who should they have drafted? Realistically. Not in the fantasy world that you live in.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
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In comment 14640512 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Other than it makes people momentarily forget that things on this side are pretty shitty.
Who really cares that Darnold was awful against a legitimately good defense days after jones was a turnover machine against a bad one? What does that do for anybody?
What does football do for anybody in general?
It's sports... Darnold's performance last night is a sports headline today because that's how bad he was on national television and people are talking about it.
I'd be more interested in knowing why that bothers or surprises people.
Because it stomps SOMEWHAT on the narrative that taking Barkley over Darnold was a mistake we’d live to regret?
Probably not - Barkley is now predictably becoming the poster child for everything wrong with the Giants.
I think even you can admit that Barkley isn’t the reason for that. Was actually talking to a friend at work yesterday and said how weird it is that we simply can’t make plays work. I then asked him if Barkley and McCaffery switch teams who’d be having the great season and who’d be running in mud.
The Barkley pick was a good one. How good will be based on many factors out of his control. But I see what a creative offense does and then I see our bland, inept play calling and I simply cannot blame it on the strategy of picking Barkley.
We’ve got some talent issues for sure but I’m almost certain if we swapping coaching staffs with some other teams in the NFL it would pay immediate dividends.
Not as bad as selecting the next franchise, HOF bound QB and still picking ahead of the pathetic Giants in the draft two seasons in a row
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Who should they have drafted? Realistically. Not in the fantasy world that you live in.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
You really think Quenton Nelson would make this a winning team or even a decent team?? No they would suck just like they do now and you'd be killing them for taking an OG with the 2nd overall pick.
They are cesspools of bitching where people congregate to backslap each other about how the team doesn't use analytics, used the #2 pick to draft to make a terrible pick (Darnold would've been better?), hired the worst GM and coach possible, has the worst roster in the NFL and is going to suck for the next several years.
That's clear-thinking non-delusional observations?
The fuck it is - it's just the opposite end of the spectrum.
Opposite end of the spectrum? Ok sure. But they're also much closer to the truth than the threads stumping for DG and/or PS
Who would have thought Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are the brightest spots of the 2018 draft class? And by the way, let me know if you think either of those can win a playoff game in which they have to throw the ball.
Living in Baltimore, Raven fans aren't delusional about Lamar. Most have been fairly pragmatic about his limitations, although he is slowly improving throwing the ball. All you can reasonably ask.
Would they still have patience if Darnold was under center? If Nelson was blocking? If Allen was rushing the passer?
No. They still would say we are aimless and terribly run.
Hell, Terps keeps railing against Barkley because the offense hasn't produced better returns. And we'd likely still have the same output no matter who was drafted on either side of the ball.
He wanted a tear-down. He got it. But is too damn impatient to see if it will work.
Almost anyone can be a quality running back behind a good line. That's how the Broncos shuffled through a series of nondescript running backs who ran for big yardage under Shanahan. As we've seen with Barkley, you're not winning jack shit with a great running back and a terrible OL.
Well, somebody has to pick up the mantle now that Eli isn't available anymore.
Framing Barkley, or choosing Barkley 2nd overall as the reason why we suck is just lazy and boring. There are a lot of reasons why the Giants are bad. Saquon Barkley isn't one of them. And swapping him out with one of those QB's or Quenton Nelson or whoever we want to play fantasy hindsight with doesn't change anything.
The same logic would get us to the same point. "We still suck, therefore player X was a bad pick"
Do it with any player in the 2018 draft... we arrive at the same place.
Would they still have patience if Darnold was under center? If Nelson was blocking? If Allen was rushing the passer?
No. They still would say we are aimless and terribly run.
Hell, Terps keeps railing against Barkley because the offense hasn't produced better returns. And we'd likely still have the same output no matter who was drafted on either side of the ball.
He wanted a tear-down. He got it. But is too damn impatient to see if it will work.
This is the truth.
Insert Quentin Nelson, or whomever else you want to onto the roster instead of Barkley, and the results would likely be the same. That is the crazy thing about this.
It's so much bigger than one player.
Almost anyone can be a quality running back behind a good line. That's how the Broncos shuffled through a series of nondescript running backs who ran for big yardage under Shanahan. As we've seen with Barkley, you're not winning jack shit with a great running back and a terrible OL.
You can't really run the same run blocking schemes the Broncos did back then, though... that's not a great example. All of the cut blocking doesn't fly now.
I'm all about prioritizing the offensive line. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. Dallas has both and used essentially the same investment on their RB - and they've now paid him a 2nd contract. Why can't the Giants? It's not like drafting a RB 2nd overall strips you of the necessary assets to build a strong offensive line.
Signing guys like Nate Solder are much bigger roadblocks to success than drafting elite RB's.
We took one of them. Yet the bitching still continues.
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Who should they have drafted? Realistically. Not in the fantasy world that you live in.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
So, we got Hernandez and we then got Zeitler. I don't think it's that specific position that is hurting us.
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In comment 14640551 Big Rick in FL said:
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Who should they have drafted? Realistically. Not in the fantasy world that you live in.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
So, we got Hernandez and we then got Zeitler. I don't think it's that specific position that is hurting us.
Bingo
Elliott is nothing special. He runs behind a great OL, that's all.
Keeping Eli.
Are you seriously comparing either of those guys to Nelson?
Almost anyone can be a quality running back behind a good line. That's how the Broncos shuffled through a series of nondescript running backs who ran for big yardage under Shanahan. As we've seen with Barkley, you're not winning jack shit with a great running back and a terrible OL.
Well let's look at that offensive line, shall we?
Dave Diehl LT: 5th round pick 2003
Rich Seubert: LG Undrafted FA 2001
Shaun O'hara: C Undrafted FA 2000 traded to Giants in 2004
Chris Snee: RG 2nd round pick 2004
Kareem McKenzie: RT 3rd round pick 2001, signed as FA by Giants in 2005.
So that line was built in varying degrees by drafting, trading, and signing FA's over the course of four years, then an additional two-three years of playing together to become the line it did in 2008.
Dave Gettleman was supposed to do all of that in one offseason?
The Darnold led Jets are a big story in their own right. If you are a Giants fan who lives outside the NY metro area I guess it’s understandable that a performance like that wouldn’t necessarily carry extra weight (even then I think it would because of the draft connection).
If you live in the area though the Jets are basically your second team by default - they get half the coverage in local papers and on the radio, they are on TV every week. I know more about the Jets than any team in the NFL aside from the Giants and it is not even close. The only real difference between the Giants and the Jets is I don’t root for the Jets on Sunday. But otherwise I’m hearing about them nearly as much as the Giants.
The Colts first three picks would have been a dream for the Giants. Nelson and Braden Smith was my dream draft, but I would have been good with Chubb and Smith too.
Elliott is nothing special. He runs behind a great OL, that's all.
Elliott is an excellent player. I couldn't disagree more.
They haven't had a losing year since they drafted Elliott. They were 4-12 the year before they drafted him.
I'm pretty sure we'd be complaining a lot less if we were in their place.
Would you switch places with Dallas right now if you could? I would.
They've been a heck of a lot smarter than we've been in how they've approached their team and keep fielding competitive ones that win the division or are in the mix right up until the end.
Dallas also leads the entire NFL in offensive yards... with that RB they took 4th overall and have now paid.
13 wins, 9 wins, 10 wins... and they'll win the division this year again.
Blueprint or not, they've been a heck of a lot better than us lately and have been embarrassing us on the field just the same.
Keeping Eli.
Do you think that was a DG move? Honest question. If you do then yes, I'd been fine with the DG criticism for it but I for one don't think he had a choice.
And if that's the case then its just really hard to critique when that's been the biggest decision the franchise has faced in 15 years.
Oh no, Alibi Ike put quite a bit of work into supposedly fixing the line. He made brilliant moves like signing Nate fucking Solder's worthless ass to the biggest OL contract in the league.
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Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
The Colts first three picks would have been a dream for the Giants. Nelson and Braden Smith was my dream draft, but I would have been good with Chubb and Smith too.
Chubb has a fantastic year last season and the Broncos still sucked. They were just as bad as the Giants. The Broncos didn’t get their first win of this season until Chubb after went on IR. Yet I don’t see people killing him as a bad pick based on team results for some reason. That’s reserved for Barkley around here
BTW, the offense wasn't why they won 10 games last year. It was actually pretty bad.
It's quite touching...
As for Dallas' playoff record, i'm blaming their HC first and foremost. He looks lost in big games, always has. Coaching matters, shouldn't we know that by now?
Gettleman has hand picked this OL-
the LT he overpaid sucks
the RT we held out making any moves for is horrible
the RG we traded for is hurt and playing average
the Center is awful
the LG is good.
i don't have a major issue with Barkley other than a big reason they drafted him was because they actually were dumb enough to think they could compete in 2018 after the 2017 debacle... and the top talent at RB would be a huge addition to help with the Eli comeback campaign. that was dead wrong, and the franchise rebuild has been delayed because of that stupidity.
We are so fucking lucky to have such a back in SB..And now, we may have completed a “bifecta” with the drafting of DJ, but at the moment, too soon to know.
Elliott was an all pro as a rookie and has lead the entire league in rushing in both of his healthy seasons. He's not just some guy along for the ride behind a dominant OL... their OL has had a bunch of injuries lately.
And yes, it's not all their offense... they have a good defense too.
How could that be possible if they drafted a RB in the top 5? Reading posts on this board, you'd think it was some sort of miracle.
If you draft well and don't waste cap dollars overpaying over the hill guys in free agency or guys who just flat suck, it's amazing what happens.
I fucking hate Dallas, but cmon.
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Who should they have drafted? Realistically. Not in the fantasy world that you live in.
Quenton Nelson, the same guy I said I wanted at the time.
"How could we pick an OG at #2???? This is the worst thing I've ever seen and I'm gonna repeat it in every thread."
- Greg
elite players aren't fungible. And average players at every position are fungible. That's why Nick Foles is fungible. Or today's version of Cam Newton. Or Eli. Wait a minute - QB's aren't supposed to be fungible!!
They won 11 games his rookie year... they're 4-2 right now with Kyle Allen playing QB. McCaffrey is clearly the best player on the entire offense.
Was he a bad draft pick?
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Gettleman's "great football resume", the one he always likes to remind us about, but I am certain I wouldn't have made this colossal mistake:
Keeping Eli.
Do you think that was a DG move? Honest question. If you do then yes, I'd been fine with the DG criticism for it but I for one don't think he had a choice.
And if that's the case then its just really hard to critique when that's been the biggest decision the franchise has faced in 15 years.
Here how I think it went with Eli.
In 2018, Gettleman was following marching orders from Mara to keep Eli. So I think that was out of his hands. And he wanted the job. Which required, IMV, committing to keep Eli as the QB.
Coming into this year? Different story. I think keeping Eli for 2019 was Gettleman's choice. He knew he was drafting a QB - essentially admitted it draft post-mortem - and envisioned Eli the mentor, the eventual baton passing, etc.
2018, Elliott led the league in rushing yards....because he also led the league in rushing attempts. Wasn't in the top ten in either TDs or YPC.
- Greg
Well, except for the fact that he was the pick I wanted. Other than that, you've really hit the nail on the head, Flounder.
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"How could we pick an OG at #2???? This is the worst thing I've ever seen and I'm gonna repeat it in every thread."
- Greg
Well, except for the fact that he was the pick I wanted. Other than that, you've really hit the nail on the head, Flounder.
You just like to complain.
Dallas was in a very different position in 2016 than the Giants were last year. They were coming off a 4-win season mainly because Romo was hurt. They were 12-4 the year prior, they had talent. You can make a luxury pick in that spot. The Giants did not have that luxury in 2018.
Because Barkley's skills will erode much faster than Chubb's. I don't think there's a person on this board that thinks Barkley isn't a fantastic player. The difference is that Chubb and Nelson are much more likely to anchor their positions for 5-10 years.
We are so fucking lucky to have such a back in SB..And now, we may have completed a “bifecta” with the drafting of DJ, but at the moment, too soon to know.
Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
You just don't need a great/transcendent RB to compete and win the biggest prizes. That part of the equation no longer applies. Hell, we proved it in 2008 and 2011.
It's just wiser to invest your limited cap dollars into other areas that are more critical for success.
The best way to play the RB game is to recycle to a new group every 2-3 years. And do it < the league average for the position.
They won 11 games his rookie year... they're 4-2 right now with Kyle Allen playing QB. McCaffrey is clearly the best player on the entire offense.
Was he a bad draft pick?
He's not such a bad pick for a team with a defense that's leading the league in sacks, a solid OL, and a stable QB situation (albeit by luck).
Because Barkley's skills will erode much faster than Chubb's. I don't think there's a person on this board that thinks Barkley isn't a fantastic player. The difference is that Chubb and Nelson are much more likely to anchor their positions for 5-10 years.
That's mostly right - in theory. Barkley could always break the mold. But even if he does it doesn't mean anything because RBs just don't have the same impact on winning anymore. Their win-share value is < than QBs, WRs, TEs, and Kickers.
Looked it up and it was Reggie Bush in 2009, and he wasn't more than a complementary piece to that offense.
And more mistakes are on the way. Next up are some big free agent contracts this offseason because we'll be "ready to compete" in 2020. After that will be making Barkley the highest paid back in the league.
The fun isn't over yet.
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Because Barkley's skills will erode much faster than Chubb's. I don't think there's a person on this board that thinks Barkley isn't a fantastic player. The difference is that Chubb and Nelson are much more likely to anchor their positions for 5-10 years.
That's mostly right - in theory. Barkley could always break the mold. But even if he does it doesn't mean anything because RBs just don't have the same impact on winning anymore. Their win-share value is < than QBs, WRs, TEs, and Kickers.
So only Punters are less valuable?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
We are so fucking lucky to have such a back in SB..And now, we may have completed a “bifecta” with the drafting of DJ, but at the moment, too soon to know.
you couldn't be more out of touch.
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Is McCaffrey also 'nothing special' ? Is it all the CAR OL that is making him look good.
They won 11 games his rookie year... they're 4-2 right now with Kyle Allen playing QB. McCaffrey is clearly the best player on the entire offense.
Was he a bad draft pick?
He's not such a bad pick for a team with a defense that's leading the league in sacks, a solid OL, and a stable QB situation (albeit by luck).
They knew they'd be leading the league in sacks in his 3rd season when they drafted him?
That's some impressive foresight!
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Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
The whole cheap QB thing is nearly as widespread either. Going back 15 years?
The majority of those titles have been won by
Manning, Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers and Ben
The Hawks did it but then guess what? They paid Russ. That seems to be working pretty well!
Flacco and Foles seem to be a bit of an anomaly.
But to your point FatMan, total agreement. Outside of the Pats, where is "the plan" to point to for how to build?
But getting back to Darnold, he's got a very similar situation to DJ in that his Headcoach is a good QB whisperer but a bad HC. He's got a decent running back and ......does he have a tight end or a receiver equal to Even Engram or Shepard or Tate? I am in FMiC's camp of being sick of hearing how we should have drafted Darnold and not Barkley, but he's still got Mono, he's got no OL and old Goofy Eyes gave him one of the worst pep talks I've ever heard mid game. The hyperbole on this board and in the media as well is utterly ridiculous.
Looked it up and it was Reggie Bush in 2009, and he wasn't more than a complementary piece to that offense.
Who was the last SB champion to feature a top 10 OG or even a 1st round OG? Both SB teams from last season had 1st round RBs.
That's some impressive foresight!
Foresight? They were second in the league in sacks and had a good offensive line in place when he was drafted.
First round OGs to win a SB?
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They knew they'd be leading the league in sacks in his 3rd season when they drafted him?
That's some impressive foresight!
Foresight? They were second in the league in sacks and had a good offensive line in place when he was drafted.
In other words, they went and got the best playmaker they could get after those foundational pieces were in place.
James Carpenter, 2013 Seahawks
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They've won one playoff game in three seasons with Elliott. In 2017, when Elliott missed some games, their record with him was 6-4 and their record without him was 3-3. Alfred Morris' washed up ass actually had better numbers in his place.
Elliott is nothing special. He runs behind a great OL, that's all.
Elliott is an excellent player. I couldn't disagree more.
They haven't had a losing year since they drafted Elliott. They were 4-12 the year before they drafted him.
I'm pretty sure we'd be complaining a lot less if we were in their place.
Would you switch places with Dallas right now if you could? I would.
They've been a heck of a lot smarter than we've been in how they've approached their team and keep fielding competitive ones that win the division or are in the mix right up until the end.
Dallas also leads the entire NFL in offensive yards... with that RB they took 4th overall and have now paid.
13 wins, 9 wins, 10 wins... and they'll win the division this year again.
Blueprint or not, they've been a heck of a lot better than us lately and have been embarrassing us on the field just the same.
+1 To say Elliot isn't a special player is just being a homer and a foolish one at that. (I hate him as much as any giants fan)
Even more laughable because they then benched Eli after two games
But sure this team has direction...
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First round OGs to win a SB?
James Carpenter, 2013 Seahawks
Now top ten OGs to win a SB?
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Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
The whole cheap QB thing is nearly as widespread either. Going back 15 years?
The majority of those titles have been won by
Manning, Manning, Brees, Brady, Rodgers and Ben
The Hawks did it but then guess what? They paid Russ. That seems to be working pretty well!
Flacco and Foles seem to be a bit of an anomaly.
But to your point FatMan, total agreement. Outside of the Pats, where is "the plan" to point to for how to build?
Speaking of the Hawks two SB runs in 2013 and 2014 (one win, which should have been two if they had RUN the ball instead of passing it but I digress), didn't they have a 1st round, all pro (2013, 2014), who also led the NFL in rushing TD's both years (2013, 2014)? Did he contribute at all?
Explain to me what is special about him. Since it's so self-evident to some of you, it should be really easy, right?
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+1 To say Elliot isn't a special player is just being a homer and a foolish one at that. (I hate him as much as any giants fan)
Explain to me what is special about him. Since it's so self-evident to some of you, it should be really easy, right?
If you can’t see it, I guess it’s above your level of comprehension. I’m not biting...
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+1 To say Elliot isn't a special player is just being a homer and a foolish one at that. (I hate him as much as any giants fan)
Explain to me what is special about him. Since it's so self-evident to some of you, it should be really easy, right?
LOL. Christ what's next on the agenda? Are you really trying to debate that Elliott is a run of the mill back?
2018, Elliott led the league in rushing yards....because he also led the league in rushing attempts. Wasn't in the top ten in either TDs or YPC.
Wow Greg, that's some insight, you found players selected in different rounds who are good. Congrats?
Someone earlier just listed the Giants Oline from the Super Bowl, no Quentin Nelsons there at #2 overall, so does that mean we should never look to upgrade the line with a top 3 pick?
Taking a great player at 2 was the goal and we succeeded. If the Giants still suck you should look elsewhere because Barkley isn't the reason why. We'd also still suck with Darnold. We likely still suck with Nelson. There's a larger issue here and I think its more to do with what we can't see than what we can see, but that isn't fun to post about because it isn't tangible so here we are.
baaahahahahaha
He wasn't in the top ten in either YPC or TDs last year but sure, he's Jim Brown reincarnated.
Most overrated player in football.
Frederick 2013
Martin 2014
Any HC with a clue would have been get that crap outta here.........if I am Darnold I politely decline the offer too.
Darnold looked awful last night, just not results, but just mechanics. Everything was out of sync.
I also put part of it on the HC, where were the easy throws?
The guy averages 128 total yards and 0.85 TDs per game for his career. You can try to twist it however you want, but those are great numbers.
And that was the second first round pick by the Pats that year. They took Wynn with the higher pick.
The Pats have the luxury of taking a RB that high. We don't.
Back to back 5-11 seasons actually sounds optimistic at this point.
He wanted a tear-down. He got it. But is too damn impatient to see if it will work.
Maybe he wanted a smart tear down.
So you leave Erik Flowers there? What would you have done?
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Seriously, do you pay attention to who has success in this league over the last 15 years?
Who has had sustained success the past 15 years to point to?
Even ignoring the Pats (who lo and behold selected a RB in the 1st round last year), the Rams who played them in the SB with a high first round pick at RB. The Steelers with a 2nd round pick anchoring their offense for several years. The Cowboys with Elliott. The examples of teams not having a RB drafted pretty high is shrinking.
But beyond that - what is the blueprint for success the past 15 years? Haven't most teams taken wildly different routes? The best correlation you'll find is having a QB on his rookie deal using up less of the cap, but then those pesky Pats refute that.
The Pats took Michel with the lower of their TWO first round picks in 2018. And it wasn't a premium pick...like the #2 pick in the draft.
Do we have to do this exercise again? Let's do the last twelve SB champs.
2008 NYG RBs: Bradshaw & Jacobs
2009 Pitt RBs: Parker & Davenport
2010 NO RBs: Thomas & Bell
2011 GB RBs: Starks & Jackson
2012 NYG RBs: Bradshaw & Jacobs
2013 BALT RBs: Rice & Leach
2014 SEA RBs: Lynch & Robinson
2015 PATS RBs: Blount & Bolden
2016 DEN RBs: Anderson & Hillman
2017 PATS RBs: Blount, White, Lewis, etc.
2018 PHI RBs: Ajayi, Blount, Smallwood, Clement, etc
2019 PATS RBs: White, Burkett, etc
So notice the player I put in bold. You're a smart guy. What do you think it means?
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
I just want to know what alternative was there besides either keeping Flowers and doing nothing or signing Solder.
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
Remember how people were touting Gettleman's ability to find players at lower levels in the draft, pointing specifically to Andrew Norwell?
That one seemed to have died down after the Giants were held at gunpoint and forced to pay Solder.
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the guy who played last week against the Cowboys with the guy who just played the Patriots. Given the Patriots defense is much better than Dallas', but the difference in performance was drastic.
The guy seemed spooked to play the Patriots which may speak to a larger problem than inconsistency.
Which makes the play of Our rookie Danny Jones even that much more impressive. (With no Barkley or Ingram )
I don't think a lot of people saw an impressive performance by Jones against the Patriots. I read that on BBI quite a bit, but nowhere else.
Gettleman did keep flowers
he didn't cut him till mid season
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was giving Solder a massive contract?
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
Remember how people were touting Gettleman's ability to find players at lower levels in the draft, pointing specifically to Andrew Norwell?
That one seemed to have died down after the Giants were held at gunpoint and forced to pay Solder.
This makes no sense at all.
I guess the answer is if you dont want anyone to hear you dont wear a mic?
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First round OGs to win a SB?
James Carpenter, 2013 Seahawks
Picked 25th. Michel was picked 30th.
Michel pick is qualified because it was two picks from the last in the 1st round, the 25th pick is not virtually the same?
I don't disagree with all of your argument, but this is just disingenuous.
Where's fanofthejets, he was popping back in before yesterday lol
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Daniel Jones: 15/31 – 161 yards – 1 TD / 3 INT / 35.2 QBR vs the Patriots in NE.
So better, but no bragging rights there.
On a short week, with windy conditions (not sure how that compared to last night), his top 2 RBs and his top 2 receiving options all sidelined.
dep?
NYC is the ass end of the NFL now.
And you know something? As bad as Flowers is, I'd rather have kept his shitty ass in the short term than signed a guy who is only marginally better to a huge deal that's going to be an anchor around the team's collective neck for years to come.
Honestly, what difference would it have made? Would they have only won 3 games again in 2018 rather than 5? Oh no!
No but you are using hindsight. At the time EVERYONE was screaming for anything on the OL and were pissed we missed out on Norwell to TC. At the time the next biggest name was Solder and if you got the money honey, he's got the time....if the Giants had stuck with Flowers and we had the same performance for 2 years, I wonder what you would be saying about Gettleman now.
For what it's worth, I think Lawrence is going to be a stud, and if OBJ continues to put up pedestrian numbers on the Browns, it could be decent value and turn out to be an okay trade.
But Barkley and OBJ are players that would have increased eachothers efficiency.
and while there's this weird revisionist history that Zeitler and Vernon were part of the OBJ trade, they were not, and you could have gotten Zeitler without pulling the trigger on OBJ.
Who knows, maybe Xman will blossom, but Peppers is not going to live up to his draft billing, and this defense still sucks.
Trading OBJ was a bad move in my opinion, after you drafted Barkley and got a rookie (and mobile, not running but mobile) QB.
Stop trying to harsh our buzz, its all we got left! XP
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In comment 14640461 BestFeature said:
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In comment 14640408 M.S. said:
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...SUCK!
You're a broken record. There's nothing in the 5 games that Jones played that comes even close to Darnold's level of ineptitude yesterday. But you need to shit all over Jones.
You've got it wrong. I am a Daniel Jones supporter and I've liked some of the things he has done so far as a rookie. But he has simply sucked the last few games with all his turnovers.
He's a rookie whose played 5 games. He's getting pressured at by far the highest rate in the NFL. His WRs are also not getting separation. They are near the bottom of separation yards since the stat started getting tracked 4 years ago.
I have little doubt SS and Tate could get tons of separation in a Gilbride type offense like Cruz and Smith, not Shemur's spacing routes against Tampa 2. The Zona CB was already raising his fist in celebration as soon as DJ8 threw his 1st interception.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
True most of the time, but the implosion, the utter rage by more than some over us passing on Darnold was so profound, many of us, being human, were immediately against his being as productive as his sploogers said he would be (and still might be. Way too early to be definitive one way or the other.)
Is that a child-like reaction? You bet, but again, we’re human.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
This feels a little revisionist. Eli was hardly a finished product as a second year player. That he wasn't mic'd up to get a juicy sound clip from doesn't mean he didn't have some of the same issues. In his first three years, he was 2nd, 4th, and 1st in interceptions.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
I totally agree. The Jets have a real problem here. And potentially a big problem. Not only does Darnold keep struggling with the physical elements of the game - his footwork is just all of the place from game to game - but there now appears to a real issue with the mental part of the game.
Right now his play is closer to bust than boom...
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
You're right, worse...
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200711250nyg.htm
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is in Year 2. He's talking about seeing ghosts and throwing off his back foot and ducking away from pressure.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
You're right, worse...
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200711250nyg.htm
This is more comparable
Baltimore chop - ( New Window )
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is in Year 2. He's talking about seeing ghosts and throwing off his back foot and ducking away from pressure.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
You're right, worse...
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200711250nyg.htm
That's worse??
Eli had a TD and 273 yards.
Darnold had 0 TD' 4 INT's a fumble, a batted ball for a safety and 83 yards.
Oh, and he said to a National audience that he saw ghosts.
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In comment 14642745 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is in Year 2. He's talking about seeing ghosts and throwing off his back foot and ducking away from pressure.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
You're right, worse...
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200711250nyg.htm
That's worse??
Eli had a TD and 273 yards.
Darnold had 0 TD' 4 INT's a fumble, a batted ball for a safety and 83 yards.
Oh, and he said to a National audience that he saw ghosts.
Obviously arguing with you is a waste of time if that’s what you took out of that game.
It was one of the worst QB performances of all time!
And the example you showed of Eli, he contributed one less turnover, almost 200 more yards and a TD.
Are you really trying to point out that the two games were similar?
0.0 rating 4/18 for 27 yards and 2 ints.
Eli in his 4th season in 2007 vs MN wasn't much better. 41-17 loss.
33.8 rating 21/49 for 273 yards 4 ints 3 returned for TDs.
In. His. Fourth. Year.
"It's not necessarily that we have a good read on Eli," Sharper said. "I just think we have played well against him the last couple of times."
Well isn't the word. Great is. The Vikings (5-6) have picked off Manning eight times in the two games, scoring on four of those picks and coming close on another.
Two months later he was Super Bowl MVP.
Young QBs get abused by good coaches and good teams. Both Jones and Darnold are going through it at the same time. The "seeing ghosts" quote was about misreading the defense.
I think the next move for the Baghdad Bob crew is to storm Eric's basement and eat pizza and hold a press conference .
We got a cache of pepperoni pies down here!!
He played with one of the worst olines in Power 5 football and boozebag for a coach, but he did have a ton of skill talent.
The reception in the basement is too shitty. Have to wonder what else is down here!!!
We do have a couple of Meat Lover's pizzas to go with the pepperoni though...
USC had 13 players drafted in the 3 drafts around Darnold, 2017-2019. Many were top picks, and on offense he had college weapons like Juju Shuster and Ronald Jones to play with.
USC certainly is always one of the most talented teams in college football.
The reception in the basement is too shitty. Have to wonder what else is down here!!!
We do have a couple of Meat Lover's pizzas to go with the pepperoni though...
lol!
58% completions,
3,464 total yards (216 per game, yahoo!)
20 passing TD's (1.2 per game)
20 Ints (1.2 per game)
7 fumbles, 3 lost (so 23 turnovers, or 1.4 per game!)
Sure looks like a HOF player to me.
Let the spinning begin.
58% completions,
3,464 total yards (216 per game, yahoo!)
20 passing TD's (1.2 per game)
20 Ints (1.2 per game)
7 fumbles, 3 lost (so 23 turnovers, or 1.4 per game!)
Sure looks like a HOF player to me.
Let the spinning begin.
For a rookie QB, those full year stats aren't unusual. For example, Peyton Manning had 26 TDs and 28 INTs his rookie year at a 57% completion rate. And he lost three fumbles. That's 31 total turnovers. And he had Faulk and Harrison on that team.
I liked Darnold at SC. He's got some very good natural skills. Thought he had an excellent workout in the rain at SC before the draft. But he obviously had warts coming in the league - turnover prone and lacking pocket fundamentals. So there were things to work on.
But so far I don't see ANY improvement since he came into the league.
Gase, who I like, really has his work cut out for him to make sure Dardold doesn't fall completely into the QB abyss...
He used to be Peyton Manning's bitch-boy?
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16 games started
58% completions,
3,464 total yards (216 per game, yahoo!)
20 passing TD's (1.2 per game)
20 Ints (1.2 per game)
7 fumbles, 3 lost (so 23 turnovers, or 1.4 per game!)
Sure looks like a HOF player to me.
Let the spinning begin.
For a rookie QB, those full year stats aren't unusual. For example, Peyton Manning had 26 TDs and 28 INTs his rookie year at a 57% completion rate. And he lost three fumbles. That's 31 total turnovers. And he had Faulk and Harrison on that team.
I liked Darnold at SC. He's got some very good natural skills. Thought he had an excellent workout in the rain at SC before the draft. But he obviously had warts coming in the league - turnover prone and lacking pocket fundamentals. So there were things to work on.
But so far I don't see ANY improvement since he came into the league.
Gase, who I like, really has his work cut out for him to make sure Dardold doesn't fall completely into the QB abyss...
It will be a problem if he leads the league in INTs for years at a time in his prime. We should be familiar with that.
It will be a problem if he leads the league in INTs for years at a time in his prime. We should be familiar with that.
There was definitely a socialism aspect to Eli's game. He was more than willing to throwing passes to everyone - including the other team at a very high rate... ;)
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It will be a problem if he leads the league in INTs for years at a time in his prime. We should be familiar with that.
There was definitely a socialism aspect to Eli's game. He was more than willing to throwing passes to everyone - including the other team at a very high rate... ;)
For YEARS at a time. :)
Nah. Because the team is losing we just have to be miserable pricks angry at the organization 24/7.
I mean, they will eventually sense our collective anger and find the right path!!
Precisely. Sure, the Giants have been a complete disaster for years, and will continue to be.....but hey look, the Jets suck! WOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO!
I'd expect a little better from you guys. He's not the starter anymore and he gave this franchise all he could - including taking us to the promised land twice.
Most of us realized it was time to move on, but now that we have, I don't think it's really necessary to keep trashing the guy and making jokes about him. You guys sound like Jets fans.
I never thought fans would kick a guy like Eli on his way out the door - but here we are. He deserves better than that... but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Enjoy.
Unlikely...
Sure, Britt and arc do a fine job as key members of the EFC. But they were amateurs compared to dep's ability to defend Eli.
;)
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Sign me the fuck up and send me a badge.
I'd much rather be that than the one still making jokes about him throwing INT's and playing poorly after he's already been benched and his career is, for all intents and purposes, over.
But to each their own. :) If you guys get your rocks off by trashing a Giants legend who left it all out on the field for you, so be it.
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
It is kind of shifty but it wasn’t me nor do I think you were surprised. It’s also only a few so shake it off if it bothers you so much. Always wonder why posters extrapolate a minority they don’t like over into a larger group.
And you’re not part of the fan club from my viewpoint...you seem to like to ride somewhere in the middle. A bit more level headed than some of the defender fanatics...
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Ah, now I'm part of the "EFC"
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
It is kind of shifty but it wasn’t me nor do I think you were surprised. It’s also only a few so shake it off if it bothers you so much. Always wonder why posters extrapolate a minority they don’t like over into a larger group.
And you’re not part of the fan club from my viewpoint...you seem to like to ride somewhere in the middle. A bit more level headed than some of the defender fanatics...
I'm not losing sleep over it - it's just something I noticed and commented on. It took me 2 minutes to post that. I just don't really understand it, but again... to each their own.
I think I was pretty reasonable regarding Eli these last few years - to lump me in as some sort of apologist who made excuses for him at every turn is just not true and not fair.
Sure, Britt and arc do a fine job as key members of the EFC. But they were amateurs compared to dep's ability to defend Eli.
;)
Again with the link to me getting this guy banned.
Oh well...if this is the cross I have to bear
If you can't see the levity, well, you just can't see...
But like I said... you guys do you! Don't let me stop ya. (And I know you won't!)
[quote] In comment 14644166 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14644164 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Ah, now I'm part of the "EFC"
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
It is kind of shifty but it wasn’t me nor do I think you were surprised. It’s also only a few so shake it off if it bothers you so much. Always wonder why posters extrapolate a minority they don’t like over into a larger group.
And you’re not part of the fan club from my viewpoint...you seem to like to ride somewhere in the middle. A bit more level headed than some of the defender fanatics...
I'm not losing sleep over it - it's just something I noticed and commented on. It took me 2 minutes to post that. I just don't really understand it, but again... to each their own.
I think I was pretty reasonable regarding Eli these last few years - to lump me in as some sort of apologist who made excuses for him at every turn is just not true and not fair. [/quote
I think you are more guilty by association as it seems those debates were like pack hunters / raptors going at it. And you had a few favorites :-)
But, if bw is going to nudge me for being too neutral - he can't reverse course here and then put me in the fan club. It's gotta be one or another. :)
I'd expect a little better from you guys. He's not the starter anymore and he gave this franchise all he could - including taking us to the promised land twice.
Most of us realized it was time to move on, but now that we have, I don't think it's really necessary to keep trashing the guy and making jokes about him. You guys sound like Jets fans.
I never thought fans would kick a guy like Eli on his way out the door - but here we are. He deserves better than that... but I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
Enjoy.
Outstanding post.
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In comment 14642873 Default said:
Quote:
In comment 14642745 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
is in Year 2. He's talking about seeing ghosts and throwing off his back foot and ducking away from pressure.
Eli never had a game like that and he had some really bad ones.
He's no longer a rookie.
You're right, worse...
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200711250nyg.htm
That's worse??
Eli had a TD and 273 yards.
Darnold had 0 TD' 4 INT's a fumble, a batted ball for a safety and 83 yards.
Oh, and he said to a National audience that he saw ghosts.
Obviously arguing with you is a waste of time if that’s what you took out of that game.
I'd cut bait and run also if I used such a ridiculous comparison
But, if bw is going to nudge me for being too neutral - he can't reverse course here and then put me in the fan club. It's gotta be one or another. :)
Fair enough!
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Welcome to the club.
Basically, yes. He thought a guy was blitzing and the safety was dropping back but he mis-diagnosed it.
Not a big deal in the scheme of things, but funny nonetheless. And the freakouts here if that had been or QB and the blame game would have been epic.
Sign of the times, but overall not a big deal one way or the other for Mr. Sam Darnold.
Not a big deal in the scheme of things, but funny nonetheless. And the freakouts here if that had been or QB and the blame game would have been epic.
Sign of the times, but overall not a big deal one way or the other for Mr. Sam Darnold.
Agree with that though I think some folks interpret what he said unfairly.
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Ah, now I'm part of the "EFC"
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Welcome to the club.
All new members get a gift, an Eco-Drive Citizen watch. Look for yours in the mail.
This is massive game for him this weekend. He can forget everything from last week and elevate his play to compete against a tough D on the road, or he can unravel. Big game.
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In comment 14644164 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Ah, now I'm part of the "EFC"
Would have cut him before this year... wanted NYG to take a QB in the draft this year. But, I'm part of the fan club because I think you guys look shitty kicking the guy on his way out the door and didn't need to trash him to get my points across about thinking he was potentially finished/nearing the end/whatever.
Good stuff.
And no, I'm not surprised... it's just what goes down around here.
Welcome to the club.
All new members get a gift, an Eco-Drive Citizen watch. Look for yours in the mail.
If I'm getting one of these watches, you can definitely fucking count me in!
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nope
That was Dallas's third loss in a row, wasn't it?