Sterling Shepard’s Family Have Nudged Him To Retire

Look at Daniel Jones' entire family.

And consider his class status when doing so.

So on top of the usual pro football concerns, I'm sure the elder family members have that thought in the back of their minds as well.

I don't see football petering out anytime soon.

that nobody can predict the future health of a player based on his history of head trauma. I suspect that many of the players with CTE developed it as a result of thousands of helmet-to-helmet impacts in practice drills over a decade or two. On the other end of the spectrum, there were probably some who developed CTE from only a few major collisions at the wrong time.

Despite the uncertainty, as time passes more college and NFL players will opt to retire early, and fewer young athletes will choose to play football.

In comment 14640782 Eric from BBI said:

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I'm not convinced that the 30-year old Carson would have given up football, even if he said so later in life. Not too long ago, getting "your bell rung" was not a big deal in football. Obviously, it should have been taken more seriously.

Well obviously 30 year old Harry Carson didn't give up football, so I'm not sure what your point is.

More broadly, I'm having a hard time understanding what your overall point is. You said that you think the pendulum is swinging too far the other way, which to me reads as you suggesting people are becoming too cautious. But in this post you're acknowledging that serious hits should have been taken more seriously than they used to be. So I'm not really sure what your position is. And whether Carson, even a more informed Carson, would have chosen to play as a 20 or 30 year old, the fact that he now regrets it seems to make a pretty good case that players aren't necessarily in the best position to make those decisions in the moment.

As for Hoss, I'm familiar with neither the state he was in during that game, nor the state of his health today, though I've never read anything to suggest he's in bad shape. I assume he's glad he stayed in that game, but if he was really suffering concussion symptons, it may have been a medically risky and foolish decision. Hopefully he's not suffering lifelong problems because of it. At any rate, even if Hostetler was left in a game that today he'd be taken out of, and suffered no long-term ill effects because of it, that doesn't seem all that meaningful in judging whether the current protocols are appropriate are not. The evidence seems pretty clear that the downside is big enough that caution is the side to err on. (That's not to say I think Shepard should retire, or sit out the rest of the season. Or not. I know effectively nothing about head trauma, and even less about Shep's specific symptoms and condition. But I think it's perfectly reasonable for him to be concerned and to consider whether the ongoing risk is worth it).

Even with Shep, we need one, anyway.

In comment 14640832 Eric from BBI said:

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Look at Daniel Jones' entire family. And consider his class status when doing so.

Yeah, but we're talking about a very recent trend or shift. DJ is young, but the decision to play is still more than a decade ago.

In comment 14640685 5BowlsSoon said:

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I hate to say this too.

Is this a joke?

if they had the information they had now they would not have played football. Most of them came from nothing and football was their meal ticket. Even if you told a 20 something year old if you stay in football you are going to have some problems when you are in your 50s but you will make millions they would do it in a heartbeat.

Cops risk their lives everyday and get paid far less and while not as physical on a day to day basis at any time they could lose their life. same with people who join the military. why are we holding athletes to a different standard? Many jobs have health risks associated with them and yet people do them anyway, its just that the NFL pays way better than most jobs.

I know if I had the talent for the NFL I wouldn't think twice about the injuries and play and I would bet there are a ton of people who would risk it for the money as well.

My position is what I said. The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction.

I fully understand my position is a minority one and now controversial. But football players are going to get their "bell rung". As long as they understand that risk, then the consequences are their own. Similar to any other injury a player may suffer, including a broken neck, inability to walk properly by the age of 40, issues associated with massive weight gain, etc.

If I understand then new rules, the NFL has largely taken control of this issue AWAY FROM the teams. I'm not sure that is a good thing.

With all due respect, much of this sounds like virtue signaling from a group of football fans who enjoy the violence of the game but then are supposedly appalled that people get hurt playing it.

Just watch the part starting near the 37-minute mark of this video.

This stuff used to happen ALL OF THE TIME in the NFL until not too long ago.

If Hostetler comes out of that game, we lose. Anyone who saw Matt Cavanaugh play for a few plays in the NFC Championship Game knows that.


America's Game 1990 New York Giants Superbowl XXV Champions - ( New Window )

In comment 14640863 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Even with Shep, we need one, anyway.

WR is one of the few positions in which I think you can translate success from team to team unless the WR is coming from a prolific QB like Rodgers or Peyton Manning. Thus, I would be happy to take the FA route with respect to WR and I am normally not a big FA person in terms of team building.

endangering his health for the rest of his life, he should take this very seriously.

He likely has enough money with the bonus and salaries he's received to live comfortably. I like his skills but I'm a human being and follower of God first.

Rudy5757 said:

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Cops risk their lives everyday and get paid far less and while not as physical on a day to day basis at any time they could lose their life.

That's a common fallacy, propagated aggressively by police advocacy groups. Certain cops do face mortal danger on a regular basis, but the vast majority don't. Statistically, police work isn't especially dangerous.

got speared as a freshman WR on his high school team. It was a brutal, intentional hit. And he was not the same kid for nearly the next 8 months. Fortunately, his head cleared up and he's now fine. But I no longer allow him to play. The sport is just too brutal for my tastes for my kid.

So if Shephard can get out of the game with his health mostly intact then good for him. Smart move if he does it.

But he seems like a quality person.

It's whatever he decides regardless of who it is. Along with his doctor

In comment 14640914 Essex said:

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In comment 14640863 Dave in Hoboken said: Quote: Even with Shep, we need one, anyway. WR is one of the few positions in which I think you can translate success from team to team unless the WR is coming from a prolific QB like Rodgers or Peyton Manning. Thus, I would be happy to take the FA route with respect to WR and I am normally not a big FA person in terms of team building.

That's fair. I'm just not sure what WRs will be available in FA this offseason.

MotownGIANTS said:

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say he did retire how does that affect us cap wise? I would assume he'd have to fork over some cash ... Any "experts" care to weigh in?

I doubt the Giants would try to claw back any of Shepard's $10MM signing bonus, even if he passed a physical and retired voluntarily. On the other side of the ledger - depending on the timing of his retirement - his 2020 and 2021 guarantees would probably void. So, figure on a $8MM dead-money hit for his unamortized bonus, and maybe a few million in injury-termination pay if he were deemed medically unable to play.

In theory, the team could play hardball and try to minimize the dead money. Doesn't seem like the "Mara Way", but it's possible.

In comment 14640933 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Rudy5757 said: Quote: Cops risk their lives everyday and get paid far less and while not as physical on a day to day basis at any time they could lose their life. That's a common fallacy, propagated aggressively by police advocacy groups. Certain cops do face mortal danger on a regular basis, but the vast majority don't. Statistically, police work isn't especially dangerous.

Last year in the US, 150 officers were killed in the line of duty. I would say thats a pretty dangerous job even if the majority dont have risks. Are you really saying that being a cop is not a dangerous job???

In comment 14640939 bw in dc said:

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got speared as a freshman WR on his high school team. It was a brutal, intentional hit. And he was not the same kid for nearly the next 8 months. Fortunately, his head cleared up and he's now fine. But I no longer allow him to play. The sport is just too brutal for my tastes for my kid. So if Shephard can get out of the game with his health mostly intact then good for him. Smart move if he does it.

My oldest three kids go to a pretty affluent DC-burb public high school. The varsity football team is in shambles. Very few seniors on the team, have sophomores and juniors who have never played organized football before ... starting. Getting beat by 25, 35, 45 points a game.

I don’t think football is in danger of extinction ... but in more affluent areas, it’s gotta be taking some big hits.

I personally wish that wrap tackling (like rugby) became required. Good hard wrap tackling would still look like football to me ... and spare a lot of brains (see eg the two gruesome injuries in the GB v Iggs game).

In comment 14640933 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

Rudy5757 said: Quote: Cops risk their lives everyday and get paid far less and while not as physical on a day to day basis at any time they could lose their life. That's a common fallacy, propagated aggressively by police advocacy groups. Certain cops do face mortal danger on a regular basis, but the vast majority don't. Statistically, police work isn't especially dangerous.

This may be one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this site.

Just going to a house with a domestic dispute call is dangerous for police.

You might hate police, but don't be stupid and say the work they do isn't dangerous.

In comment 14640704 Knineteen said:

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In comment 14640686 Eric from BBI said: Quote: I completely understand the concern about head injuries, but I wonder if the pendulum has swung to far in the other direction. Do you guys realize that under the new rules that Jeff Hostetler would not have been allowed to continue to play in Super Bowl XXV? There is no single objective diagnosis for a concussion. Nor is there any definitive treatment for a concussion. It's absurd to believe the NFL is being too cautious here. If anything, the NFL concussion protocol is a band-aid on a problem that needs surgery. Shepard should take the rest of the year off and reevaluate in the off-season.

While I agree, I will also disagree to some extent. The NFL is still using the flawed and incomplete reports that were initially used back as far as 2012 to 2015. It is a knee jerk reaction to a bunch of really bad press.
There was one study was deemed flawed because they used the brains of deceased people who had CTE and live subjects who thought that they had some form of CTE going into the tests instead of the normal randomly chosen group. So of course the test subject number will automatically be higher.

There are numerous newer reports (within the last couple of years) that have stated that while there still is an inherent risk for CTE when playing football. The risks are nowhere near as bad as the press has made it out to be. These newer reports also have football further down the list of sports for potential CTE behind soccer, hockey and even extreme sports. Remember. Terrible news sells. Good positive news, not so much.

Is this something that needs to be properly looked at and full discussed? Yes 100%. However it also has to be looked at factually and objectively to make sure that anything that is done, is done properly and not as a result of flawed data or by media pressure.

In comment 14640897 Eric from BBI said:

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With all due respect, much of this sounds like virtue signaling from a group of football fans who enjoy the violence of the game but then are supposedly appalled that people get hurt playing it.

Getting hurt and possible lifetime brain injury are two different things. And a hearty FUCK YOU on the virtue signaling remark.

Aw, sounds like you have a case of the sads.

In comment 14640971 Eric from BBI said:

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You might hate police, but don't be stupid and say the work they do isn't dangerous.

Most dangerous occupations by fatality rate, 2017:

1)Fishermen
2)Loggers
3)Pilots/flight engineers
4)Roofers
5)Garbagemen
6)Iron and steel workers
7)Delivery drivers
8)Farmers/ranchers
9)Groundskeepers/landscapers
10)Electrical linemen

Police are 18th on that list. It can be a dangerous job, yes, but it's nowhere near the most dangerous. Fisherman have a fatality rate almost ten times that of police.

How many landscapers get shot at?

under the rug. The media and Hollywood couldn't resist a juicy coverup scandal. It's been sensationalized from the jump.

...and Software Engineers also have a higher on-the-job fatality rate than police.

We Software guys are the REAL hero's! When do we get OUR holiday?

In comment 14641006 Eric from BBI said:

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How many landscapers get shot at?

Not many. Neither do most cops. Very few of them are working in Fort Apache, the Bronx. Most of them work in quiet small towns, suburbs, and rural areas.

In comment 14640768 5BowlsSoon said:

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In comment 14640705 fkap said: Quote: trolling? you've been told several times that Shep has been re-signed. No flap.....go,F yourself too. I may have been told but if I didn’t see it, then how would I know. I did see Eric saying it here though. Why would I troll about this? SMH.....you must think I’m trolling because you probably “hate” DG or DJ and you know how supportive and passionate I am for each.

You might know because you're supposedly a Giants fan and it happened.

in terms of death rate. never has been. agricultural and farm workers have a higher death rate. roofers have a higher death rate. fishermen and loggers have far higher death rates.

and about half of police deaths come from fatal car crashes and reckless driving, not from being murdered while responding to calls.

Police officers on patrol have to always be on edge to deal with potentially dangerous situations on a daily basis, from basic traffic stop; to responding to an accident, robbery, assault, etc.; to dealing with domestic disturbances; to even the worst cases, a school shooting.

They live with pressure, anxiety, and danger on a daily basis that most people cannot comprehend. And their families often worry in fear that they won't come home.

I can't believe anyone from the New York metropolitan area can't understand or appreciate.

And to be brutally frank, I find you views on minimalizing the risks they experience to be offensive.

the icebucket challenge is virtue signaling. changing your facebook profile photo to a french flag after some terrorist attack in a country you never cared about prior is virtue signaling. "support our troops" and "blue lives matter" bumper stickers is virtue signaling.

a couple of football fans on BBI posting concern about head injuries- in a league that has made this a visible issue- is not in the same category. you really think posters here could give a shit about concussions and are pretending to so that they seem virtuous?

by accusing posters here of "virtue signaling," you're doing the same thing- signaling to others here- that you're pragmatic, appropriately cynical, a "true" rationalist, world-weary, and "above" the virtue signaling that you see from all these snowflakes and millennial wimps- engaging in the same smug posturing that you think you're calling out.

what other made-up political buzzwords can you shoehorn into the conversation? "gaslighting"? "sjw"?

i realize you're a somewhat older fellow trying to use hip, made-up internet/twitter words to make some vague point about political correctness run amok, but please, give it a rest dude. its painful.

I'm disgusted by you views. Literally disgusted. Shame on you.

It doesn't change the fact that police work, on the whole, is not as dangerous as it's made out to be. For individual cops in a few precincts in a few large cities? Perhaps. For the entire profession, not so much.

...or any of the other jobs that are demonstrably more dangerous than police work.

My point was a simple one: using the police as an example of a dangerous profession is dumb. Lots of jobs are much more dangerous.

In comment 14641016 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 14641006 Eric from BBI said: Quote: How many landscapers get shot at? Not many. Neither do most cops. Very few of them are working in Fort Apache, the Bronx. Most of them work in quiet small towns, suburbs, and rural areas.

Interesting that 2017 was cited as the year for the statistics for dangerous profession, that year was a noted "down year": 95/fatalities per 100,000 as opposed to 144 fatalities per 100,000 for 2018. Oh, and 2016 was 159 fatalities per 100,000.
Police fatality statistics 2018 - ( New Window )

There was an interesting article a while back about the coach at Dartmouth who stopped hitting each other in practice. They built a padded robot to practice hitting and correct tackling.

He wanted to get the repetitive hits out and on each other and its cumulative role out of practice. I believe their injuries were cut, concussions were cut, wins increased and missed tackles decreased.

In comment 14641042 Eric from BBI said:

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I'm disgusted by you views. Literally disgusted. Shame on you.

what view(s)? that police work isn't as dangerous as other blue collar professions?

that you don't know what you're talking about with regard to virtue signaling?

also: shame on me? seriously? take it easy bro. you sound triggered.

...is malicious intent. Trees and chain saws don't intend to maim loggers. In this regard, I guess you can draw a parallel between police work and football, in that certain players set out to inflict injury. But I think the vast majority of football injuries are either accidental or entirely non-contact. In other words, more like a falling branch or malfunctioning saw than a gunshot.

In comment 14641016 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 14641006 Eric from BBI said: Quote: How many landscapers get shot at? Not many. Neither do most cops. Very few of them are working in Fort Apache, the Bronx. Most of them work in quiet small towns, suburbs, and rural areas.

Interesting that 2017 was cited as the year for the statistics for dangerous profession, that year was a noted "down year": 95/fatalities per 100,000 as opposed to 144 fatalities per 100,000 for 2018. Oh, and 2016 was 159 fatalities per 100,000.
Police fatality statistics 2018 - ( New Window )

In comment 14641069 buddyryansux10 said:

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Interesting that 2017 was cited as the year for the statistics for dangerous profession, that year was a noted "down year": 95/fatalities per 100,000 as opposed to 144 fatalities per 100,000 for 2018. Oh, and 2016 was 159 fatalities per 100,000. Police fatality statistics 2018 - ( New Window )

Wrong. The rate is NOT 144 per 100,000. 144 is the total number of occupational deaths. The rate for 2016, since you brought that up, was 14.6 per 100,000. The most dangerous occupation in 2016 was logging, with 135.9 fatalities per 100,000.

...have the worst mortality rates...

...and have every bit as much to do with Sterling Shepard as this stupid, stupid, triggered thread.


I love football, but it's turned into modern-day gladiators, half the team on IR each season and retirees with brain damage.

I'd love to see rule changes, weight limits, stricter penalties for dangerous hits. Sprint football.

In comment 14641081 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

...is malicious intent. Trees and chain saws don't intend to maim loggers. In this regard, I guess you can draw a parallel between police work and football, in that certain players set out to inflict injury. But I think the vast majority of football injuries are either accidental or entirely non-contact. In other words, more like a falling branch or malfunctioning saw than a gunshot.

about half of all police deaths in 2017 were from traffic accidents. the other half were firearm related (there were 128 total officer deaths that year). these data are from national law enforcement officers memorial fund (NLEOMF), which has tracked police deaths for many decades.

these data are publicly available, and you can simply look at the trend line from the late 70s through 2017 to see that police work is objectively safer now than it was 40-50 years ago in terms of both death rate and total number of deaths. also: the nonfatal injury rate for police is also in line with that of other blue collar professions-in fact, it is slightly lower.

buddyryansux10's post appears to be misinterpreting data from a USA today article

In comment 14640970 Jim from Katonah said:

Quote:

In comment 14640939 bw in dc said: Quote: got speared as a freshman WR on his high school team. It was a brutal, intentional hit. And he was not the same kid for nearly the next 8 months. Fortunately, his head cleared up and he's now fine. But I no longer allow him to play. The sport is just too brutal for my tastes for my kid. So if Shephard can get out of the game with his health mostly intact then good for him. Smart move if he does it. My oldest three kids go to a pretty affluent DC-burb public high school. The varsity football team is in shambles. Very few seniors on the team, have sophomores and juniors who have never played organized football before ... starting. Getting beat by 25, 35, 45 points a game. I don’t think football is in danger of extinction ... but in more affluent areas, it’s gotta be taking some big hits. I personally wish that wrap tackling (like rugby) became required. Good hard wrap tackling would still look like football to me ... and spare a lot of brains (see eg the two gruesome injuries in the GB v Iggs game).

Totally agree. I argued this last week on a different thread. If football was just tackling, and not hitting, the game would be in a different place in terms of how it's viewed and the participation levels. Unfortunately, there is a mindset at the high school level where it is still coached to inflict damage through hitting. And the helmet is leveraged as a weapon...

Look, I get it. I still have some old school in my veins. But somewhere along the path the idea of the helmet got perverted. And it went from protective device to weapon...

My kids go to Chantilly HS. The participation levels have decreased at a rapid pace. So much so that they had to combine the freshman and JV teams to even field another non-varsity team.

On one hand, their deaths were arguably "job-related". On the other hand, the immediate cause of death in each case was "natural".

Anyway, I apologize for sidetracking the thread with a superfluous fact-check.

In comment 14641136 Big Blue Blogger said:

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On one hand, their deaths were arguably "job-related". On the other hand, the immediate cause of death in each case was "natural". Anyway, I apologize for sidetracking the thread with a superfluous fact-check.

Yes, counting ALL U.S. Presidents, regardless of cause of death.

Playing football at a high level gives you a vaunted place in society. You get money and respect that you would not get virtually anywhere else in our society. A big part of the reason for this respect, reverance almost, is because you put your body on the line. You get hurt, you play through injuries, use steroids that shorten your lifespan, and it is a conscious decision. NFL players are a part of the warrior caste in American society. It is a very honorable profession. And they are very well conpensated.

In comment 14641145 Prude said:

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Playing football at a high level gives you a vaunted place in society. You get money and respect that you would not get virtually anywhere else in our society. A big part of the reason for this respect, reverance almost, is because you put your body on the line. You get hurt, you play through injuries, use steroids that shorten your lifespan, and it is a conscious decision. NFL players are a part of the warrior caste in American society. It is a very honorable profession. And they are very well conpensated.

this aligns pretty closely with my view. although im not sure i'd characterize it as an honorable profession (but it is certainly time honored). i also miss wrap tackling.