Here's the bottom line- I'm just sick and tired of losing

Brother. I have absolutely had it with all this losing and not even being competitive on defense. It's unbearable.

just that I don't see much difference between this and what was here before.

Gettleman doesn't sit on his ass like Reese did? It's year 2 - aside from turning over some FAs, he's still got the same guys he's drafted there (sans for Lauletta, and I doubt you can say that's a good thing).

I'm not suggesting Gettleman should move on from his drafted players, just that the sample period isn't long enough to truly tell if there's a difference between the two. If Sam Beal is on this team and hasn't produced anything at the end of next year, have things really changed?

to clear out the roster and salary cap, and build the foundation. Now, it feels like they'll need four or more, unless DG starts to hit UFA more effectively. I also think the coaching staff isn't going to lead us to a championship, so I'd rather get that settled sooner than later.

.

In comment 14656880 JonC said:

Quote:

to clear out the roster and salary cap, and build the foundation. Now, it feels like they'll need four or more, unless DG starts to hit UFA more effectively. I also think the coaching staff isn't going to lead us to a championship, so I'd rather get that settled sooner than later.

FA has produced nothing thus far. And they're giving up what will be a 3rd and a 4th to sign Leonard Williams to what will likely be a pretty hefty contract.

If that doesn't pan out - things aren't turning around any time soon.

We all are... it's been years of arguing with one another because we're all frustrated and all tired of fucking losing.

Watching the Giants feels more like a job these days. It sucks.

Every year now. It's taxing.

when was the last impressive win?

Beating the bears with a back up QB last year? The texans before they found their groove? KC in 2017?

you probably have to go back to 2016 to get a real quality win.

just please please please win one of the next three against the cowboys or eagles

...with Mara making one bad decision after another.

Too many years of Jerry Reese; bad drafts; bad pro personnel decisions; hiring Pat Shurmur.

You name it.

But you think you're "sick and tired of losing?"

Just wait.

Once you get past that, then comes the apathy.

I don't think so. At this point, though, there isn't much you can do about it except hope that things get better.

Which we all knew would take time to recover from just sucks

Another good draft this year will have us close, but man we need to hit on some FA players too!

1 playoff team in 8 years is painful

I'm hopeful next tear is better, cause if we have to reboot from Gettleman/Shumur after 2020... man we're gonna go 10+ years with 1 winning season? Holy Hell.

paired with a decent draft, but I can't help but think that this is actually year 1 of the rebuild. I know it's not, and I never believed the 'we can win while we rebuild' theory. Last year felt like more of a strip down than a rebuild.

Typically teams on the rise will start to win some upsets against good teams. Until that happens it's all bullshit.

This offense is close to being complete with another 2-3 additions to the Offensive Line.

I am SO sick of not having a competitive defense. Outside of 2016, it has been nearly a decade of bottom of the league defensive units. Outside of the OL, the rest of this team's resources this offseason need to be poured into building up a sustainable championship defense.

Next year is make or break for all of the coaches and Dave Gettleman. The leash is growing shorter by the day, but with so much youth, they need to be given one more year to get all of the guys they want here and put a viable team together to compete. If not in 2020, it's never for this group.

I agree 100% with the OP premise. So sick of all of the losing.

In comment 14656890 ron mexico said:

Quote:

when was the last impressive win? Beating the bears with a back up QB last year? The texans before they found their groove? KC in 2017? you probably have to go back to 2016 to get a real quality win. just please please please win one of the next three against the cowboys or eagles

The losing really sucks - don't get me wrong - but it's not that that's bothering me.

It's the lack of any sign of life. Not talking about effort - talking about some flashes of ability and talent. Even on a shitty team, a few players usually stand out alone.

Jones has been great in this regard, although he started off hot and cooled off a bit. But the rest have been disappointing. Even Barkley, who has the talent but is banged up, hasn't been able to showcase anything individually. Slayton's probably the next on the list. And after that, aside from a play here or there, not much.

Not with these receivers it's not.

In comment 14656910 Greg from LI said:

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Not with these receivers it's not.

Or the terrible offensive line we have.

In comment 14656910 Greg from LI said:

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Not with these receivers it's not.

The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group.

is the front office won't come out and say we suck and have to fix it by doing different things vs more of the same.

For the last few years we've heard that our camp cuts would make other teams rosters (implication - we've fixed our drafting player acquisition problems) - didn't happen.

How many years does it take to fix an o-line.

How long before a connection is drawn between our inability to cover a TE - and don't get me fucking started on 3rd string TE who look like Pro-Bowlers when they play us - and our failure to get linebackers or safeties.

The thing that gets me. I was a little kid in 91 but I remember Ray Handley and how he was kicked out of town. His winning percentage in two years was .438 and Giant fans were livid at the mediocrity. In a season and a half Shurmur's record is .304 and the outrage is minimal.

Have we come to accept failure as long as we get success once a decade or so?

I don't get worked up anymore about the Giants. I watch the games, but I'm not really emotionally invested. It's just like a habit, like brushing my teeth or downing a cold one :-)

In comment 14656913 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group.

Yes, but he said the offense is close to complete, needing only to add a few lineman to make it complete. That's not true.

In comment 14656916 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

I don't get worked up anymore about the Giants. I watch the games, but I'm not really emotionally invested. It's just like a habit, like brushing my teeth or downing a cold one :-)

"Just numb to it"

Maybe from the alcohol after first qtrs of games ..that would do it! Lol

but 2020 is looking bleak as well. It just seems like we have to start over with our draft picks every 4 years. look at Sterling Shepherd, we just signed him and now he is injury prone. The OL again needs 3 players and we need an impact WR. What to do with EE? On D, we have the DL set but need LBs, Pass Rushers and a safety.

When you have to dig into FA for the most expensive positions year after year its a problem. OT and Pass Rushers need to be groomed and drafted early every year. If you look at our teams of the past, rounds 1-3 always brought us an influx of talent. Round 2 & 3 hit on some great pass rushers who were able to learn from a great pass rusher in front of them. Seems like we drafted a great pass rusher every year.

Barkley while he is a tremendous talent was the wrong pick for this team. RB is the least expensive spot to replace, RBs are always available in FA and they also can be found later in the draft. He has HOF talent but by the time this OL is fixed he will be a FA.

This will perpetually be a 4-6 win operation. There is no discernible improvement on either side of the ball.

and being a fan of this team and organization is embarrassing.

I’m not even asking for a super bowl contender- I just want a playoff contender and entertaining competitive games. The last few years the Giants can’t even compete with good teams. Hard to watch.

And this team has a ton of holes everywhere that won’t be easy to fill. Thats the sad thing- this roster probably needs 2 offseasons to do it.

In comment 14656920 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 14656913 arcarsenal said: Quote: The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group. Yes, but he said the offense is close to complete, needing only to add a few lineman to make it complete. That's not true.

The Giants have more than enough targets to field a good offense. Tate, Shepard, Engram, Slayton and Barkley are more than good enough to make this offense go if they add 2 more solid pieces to this OL.

Would I like a legit #1 WR, sure. That is not the end all be all to having a good offense though. The Pats, Ravens, Seahawks, Jaguars, and 49ers all field Top 10 offenses without a big time #1 WR. The Lions are 11th and they also do not have a legit #1.

If you can't win with the weapons we currently have on offense, it's a coaching issue, not a talent issue.

In comment 14656920 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

In comment 14656913 arcarsenal said: Quote: The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group. Yes, but he said the offense is close to complete, needing only to add a few lineman to make it complete. That's not true.

I think with an offensive line that is good, not 'adequate', but actually a strength - a pass catching group of Shepard, Slayton, Tate, and Engram (+ Barkley) is good enough to win games. Sure, a Michael Thomas type would probably take it from good to great - but I actually don't think the WR group is terrible right now when we're healthy.

The depth could certainly improve. But, would draft at least two offensive linemen before I even batted an eye @ the WR position.

The 49ers don't have a stud WR - they just acquired Sanders and he's their best one now. Still haven't lost a game. They play defense, run the football, and Jimmy G has made plays with his arm when he's needed to. Last night was probably the best game of his career. You don't need a top flight WR to be a good team. You just need some good ones and some reliable ones.

In comment 14656899 GiantEgo said:

Quote:

Typically teams on the rise will start to win some upsets against good teams. Until that happens it's all bullshit.

Exactly

Thus my point above about quality wins

you all had it coming so you can suck on it now.

The sperm recipients in the owners' box have followed virtually every prescription you "fans" and the sportswriters you all listen to wanted and the result is this train wreck- an expansion team. "Oh, it couldn't be worse." You are all finding out now that yes, indeed, it can be worse.

One stupid decision after another. This isn't getting fixed next year or the year after or the year after that. The team needs players, lots of players, and unless Gettleman hits the equivalent of power ball in the lottery and free agency, we are going to spin our wheels-spending resources to shore up positions where injury, Gettleman's seat-of-the-pants trades or free agency create new holes while trying to fix the holes the team started with. He's already admitted by his actions that he has mis-spent 1/3 of his draft picks and needs to spend more picks and dough on a decent defensive linemen.

This clear the cap stuff makes me laugh. You guys never want to pay our own players, but are all in for Gettleman, who has shown zippedy do dah acumen signing free agents, to go out and spend all this new cap money on free agents whose own teams decided they aren't worth it. Perfect. That way he can turn around and trade them to legit contenders after a season or two for more 5th round picks.

And Shurmur blows. Think on this; if he can go 6-10 some season, that record will represent his high water mark in victories as a HC. WTF is he doing here in the first place? He shouldn't have been hired and he should be shown the door at the end of this season. Won't happen though because the excuses will flow from the folks who are too invested in still another error and you guys will swallow those excuses hook, line and sinker.

So, enjoy it. Embrace the suck. Keep rooting for those vet failures that we pick up. Keep seeing great things when an average or below average player has a career day, never to be repeated. This doesn't bother me; I saw 17 years of this stuff. You guys haven't even been half way yet.

In comment 14656937 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

you all had it coming so you can suck on it now. The sperm recipients in the owners' box have followed virtually every prescription you "fans" and the sportswriters you all listen to wanted and the result is this train wreck- an expansion team. "Oh, it couldn't be worse." You are all finding out now that yes, indeed, it can be worse. One stupid decision after another. This isn't getting fixed next year or the year after or the year after that. The team needs players, lots of players, and unless Gettleman hits the equivalent of power ball in the lottery and free agency, we are going to spin our wheels-spending resources to shore up positions where injury, Gettleman's seat-of-the-pants trades or free agency create new holes while trying to fix the holes the team started with. He's already admitted by his actions that he has mis-spent 1/3 of his draft picks and needs to spend more picks and dough on a decent defensive linemen. This clear the cap stuff makes me laugh. You guys never want to pay our own players, but are all in for Gettleman, who has shown zippedy do dah acumen signing free agents, to go out and spend all this new cap money on free agents whose own teams decided they aren't worth it. Perfect. That way he can turn around and trade them to legit contenders after a season or two for more 5th round picks. And Shurmur blows. Think on this; if he can go 6-10 some season, that record will represent his high water mark in victories as a HC. WTF is he doing here in the first place? He shouldn't have been hired and he should be shown the door at the end of this season. Won't happen though because the excuses will flow from the folks who are too invested in still another error and you guys will swallow those excuses hook, line and sinker. So, enjoy it. Embrace the suck. Keep rooting for those vet failures that we pick up. Keep seeing great things when an average or below average player has a career day, never to be repeated. This doesn't bother me; I saw 17 years of this stuff. You guys haven't even been half way yet.

You seem like a fun time at parties.

You are singing to the choir. I have seen this disaster before from the late 60's until Lawrence Taylor. We appear to be spinning our wheels despite all the roster changes. I applaud Gettleman for doing this but his results are the same as before. Failure. Another year out of playoff contention before November. Team is just awful except for a player here and there. Does anyone really see the light at the end of the tunnel with this group?

The defense is the worst Giants defense I've seen since I started watching in the 1970's. I know we had some bad numbers a few years ago, but this group takes it to a completely new level. They not only give up points and yards, they don't even threaten to take the ball away. It's a given to me that the opponent will score every possession and when they don't, it's a pleasant surprise.

In comment 14656948 Marty866b said:

Quote:

You are singing to the choir. I have seen this disaster before from the late 60's until Lawrence Taylor. We appear to be spinning our wheels despite all the roster changes. I applaud Gettleman for doing this but his results are the same as before. Failure. Another year out of playoff contention before November. Team is just awful except for a player here and there. Does anyone really see the light at the end of the tunnel with this group?

I think a good base of talent is being established here but they are still really young collectively. A good FA and a third solid draft and we may look closer like the Niners. It took them a few years to get to where they are now and many werent pretty.

I got on board because basically we as fans have to, and I tried to be open minded.

While he pissed me off royally last year for practically benching Saquon in the 2nd half of the game @ Philly which we should have won, I did feel things were generally headed in the right direction.

I could be on board up to but not after the Arizona game. That is when I think it became obvious that Shurmur is what he is, a losing coach. After a couple of tough games against top defenses with a depleted offense we came home and laid a massive egg against a team that an improving NYG team should beat.

The realization that Shurmur is a terrible coach is disheartening because that's a major setback. Even with the risks associated, I'd remove him at season's end but I believe those risks are why Mara won't do it and we may well find ourselves here again next season even with an improving roster.

In comment 14656950 BigBlueBuff said:

Quote:

The defense is the worst Giants defense I've seen since I started watching in the 1970's. I know we had some bad numbers a few years ago, but this group takes it to a completely new level. They not only give up points and yards, they don't even threaten to take the ball away. It's a given to me that the opponent will score every possession and when they don't, it's a pleasant surprise.

Totally agree. The offense could use 2-3 pieces on the OL and a top WR to make them go from average to Top 10. Right now, they are the furthest thing from the problem.

The defense needs to be addressed hard this next offseason. Everyone knew coming into this year that that was going to be the case. I would be shocked if that wasn't Gettleman's focus this whole offseason.

at every level of this organization. Ownership, management, coaching, and personnel.

Alas, ownership isn’t changing. Which is an enormous problem.

But management and coaching can. And that drives personnel.

Mara and Tisch could show some real change and vision by blowing up the entire infrastructure at the end of the year and moving this organization into a new era of fresh thinking that opposes the “Giants Way”. Severe all ties to that mindset.

If they can do that, there is a real chance to right this ship...

And I'm not sure it's gotten better. I am not sure how the Oline can still be a weakness when it was identified as such nearly 5 years ago. That means either the players signed/selected aren't good or they aren't being properly developed, possibly both. All scenarios are extremely troubling.

They haven't really drafted/developed any stout pass rushes like they were known for in the mid 2000s, also troubling. Resource allocation has also been poor, to say the least.

This team is still many players away from being a legit contender. The talent level still looks scarce. How there are repeated defenses of this organization on BBI is beyond me. This has been one of the worst run franchises in the NFL for coming up on a decade.

That this current ownership has effected this franchise. If Gettleman has another great draft and this team turns a corner next year, did Mara and Tisch magically get better?

No. It means they got more talent on this team and that is how you field a sustainably good product. Having 3 straight solid drafts. That is not on the owners.

The team building and coaching are the single biggest factors in having a good football team. Personally, I feel that this team is on the right path after having 6+ years of bad drafts to recover from.

In comment 14656886 micky said:

Quote:

Every year now. It's taxing.

This sums it up perfectly. The same year every year, it’s maddening!

I am so f'ing tired of seeing the opposing team with 3rd and 8 and just know they are going to convert.

I am tired of hearing "but they are only rookies back there" or "Bettcher didn't forget how to coach". F that - yes he did. We have not made an adjustment to stop any opposing team from converting on 3rd and short ... or 3rd and very long. These are NFL players. Try some different schemes, don't have our freaking corners play off 10 yards when it is 3rd and 5.

I am just so tired of seeing every opposing team march down the field time after time. Yes, Haley can tackle, but he can't cover anyone. Why hasn't Ballentine been used more (before he got hurt) ? He could not do worse.

My fear on signing Leonard Williams is that they are giving Bettcher another year to create a barely average defense. Watching the Cardinals RB run for 3 TD's ... each for over 20 yards ... made me sick to my stomach. Whatever we are doing - it does not work !!!

it's the worst.

I hate that football isn't a topic of conversation in my world b/c I'd rather not talk about it. I mean, what is there to say aside from the fact that Daniel Jones appears to be showing some promise?

April can't get here fast enough since it's the only time I feel hopeful about the Giants moving forward.

especially on defense. On offense I think Shurmur deserves at least a little credit for how well Jones has played despite being a rookie, most weeks without most of his top weapons. Bettcher's results currently rank almost as badly as our worst DC hires in the past couple decades - Tim Lewis and Bill Sheridan. And that god awfulness reflects poorly on the entire management team.

The fact that both units have some good young foundational players is a credit to Gettleman, he hasn't been perfect but he has improved the young talent base. Think back to who he inherited as contributors under age 25 on rookie deals. Collins for sure. Then who? Eli Apple? Engram? Tomlinson? Shepard? That's about the entire list. 2 offseasons later that list is a lot longer and more impactful with Barkley, Jones, Hernandez, Carter, Baker, Peppers, Lawrence, Connelly, Hill, Slayton, etc. There are possibly more than 2 or 3 potential pro bowlers in the future on that list.

But better talent is meaningless if doesn't lead to better performance - the coaching staff has got to start showing something or they need to be shown the door.

In comment 14656937 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

you all had it coming so you can suck on it now. The sperm recipients in the owners' box have followed virtually every prescription you "fans" and the sportswriters you all listen to wanted and the result is this train wreck- an expansion team. "Oh, it couldn't be worse." You are all finding out now that yes, indeed, it can be worse. One stupid decision after another. This isn't getting fixed next year or the year after or the year after that. The team needs players, lots of players, and unless Gettleman hits the equivalent of power ball in the lottery and free agency, we are going to spin our wheels-spending resources to shore up positions where injury, Gettleman's seat-of-the-pants trades or free agency create new holes while trying to fix the holes the team started with. He's already admitted by his actions that he has mis-spent 1/3 of his draft picks and needs to spend more picks and dough on a decent defensive linemen. This clear the cap stuff makes me laugh. You guys never want to pay our own players, but are all in for Gettleman, who has shown zippedy do dah acumen signing free agents, to go out and spend all this new cap money on free agents whose own teams decided they aren't worth it. Perfect. That way he can turn around and trade them to legit contenders after a season or two for more 5th round picks. And Shurmur blows. Think on this; if he can go 6-10 some season, that record will represent his high water mark in victories as a HC. WTF is he doing here in the first place? He shouldn't have been hired and he should be shown the door at the end of this season. Won't happen though because the excuses will flow from the folks who are too invested in still another error and you guys will swallow those excuses hook, line and sinker. So, enjoy it. Embrace the suck. Keep rooting for those vet failures that we pick up. Keep seeing great things when an average or below average player has a career day, never to be repeated. This doesn't bother me; I saw 17 years of this stuff. You guys haven't even been half way yet.

So it’s the fans fault? And we’re not supposed to hope for a turnaround?
What is the point of your post? That you were old enough to be around for the 70s? That we’re not real fans unless we go through the same misery?

Seems like you enjoy the misery

I'm at apathy. I don't make an effort to watch the games. My son is 12 and got into fantasy football this year. He used to cry when the Giants lost (last time was last year after the Carolina Game). Last night he said Dad, sorry,but I think I'm going to cheer for the 49ers this year cause the Giants are so bad. I told him thats cool. I got into the Giants in the '80s. I HATE the 49ers. The stupid rule changes and lousy officiating have made me not care. The Pats seeming to have no trouble repeating every year have made me not care. But most of all The Giants have made me not care.

But they better beat the Fing Cowboys Monday night!

Cant have an owner in the front office.

Go race horses full time

Why? They have committed again to building the lines and being a physical again.

I thought there would be more progress to this point but reality set in. They have good pieces on the D front. The OL will be HIGHLY addressed this off-season. When they complete this it will be two very big factors that determine division and NFL championships moving forward.

1. QB. I think Jones is the real deal. He is tough, mentally strong and very competitive. Certainly growing pains but I would take my chances with him.

2. Coaching. I don't think Shurmur is the answer. He most likely will get next year but this will be the final piece.

Then you root like heck, hope for some good health and a little luck along the way. Once the lines are completed and you identify a coach we have just about as good of chance as anybody.

Run the ball, Stop the run and get after the passer. Yes an old mantra but still true today. I do believe DG starting next year will have accomplished this. There is some talent already on this team and it is young.

In comment 14656935 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 14656920 Greg from LI said: Quote: In comment 14656913 arcarsenal said: Quote: The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group. Yes, but he said the offense is close to complete, needing only to add a few lineman to make it complete. That's not true. I think with an offensive line that is good, not 'adequate', but actually a strength - a pass catching group of Shepard, Slayton, Tate, and Engram (+ Barkley) is good enough to win games. Sure, a Michael Thomas type would probably take it from good to great - but I actually don't think the WR group is terrible right now when we're healthy. The depth could certainly improve. But, would draft at least two offensive linemen before I even batted an eye @ the WR position. The 49ers don't have a stud WR - they just acquired Sanders and he's their best one now. Still haven't lost a game. They play defense, run the football, and Jimmy G has made plays with his arm when he's needed to. Last night was probably the best game of his career. You don't need a top flight WR to be a good team. You just need some good ones and some reliable ones.

I don't think anyone's saying you can't do it. But on average, teams don't win with lousy WRs.

And it's another part of the philosophy of the team that kills me. The focus seems to be on running the ball and stopping the run.

In a league that's gone heavily pass first - why? When the rules are basically encouraging you to pass, why would you focus on the run?

In comment 14656982 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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Why? They have committed again to building the lines and being a physical again.

they have committed to the OL rebuild, but not really getting results. still need to replace around 50% of the players and add depth

In comment 14656915 Giantsfan79 said:

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is the front office won't come out and say we suck and have to fix it by doing different things vs more of the same. For the last few years we've heard that our camp cuts would make other teams rosters (implication - we've fixed our drafting player acquisition problems) - didn't happen. How many years does it take to fix an o-line. How long before a connection is drawn between our inability to cover a TE - and don't get me fucking started on 3rd string TE who look like Pro-Bowlers when they play us - and our failure to get linebackers or safeties. The thing that gets me. I was a little kid in 91 but I remember Ray Handley and how he was kicked out of town. His winning percentage in two years was .438 and Giant fans were livid at the mediocrity. In a season and a half Shurmur's record is .304 and the outrage is minimal. Have we come to accept failure as long as we get success once a decade or so?

Our FO won't come out and say ANYTHING. That's the most maddening part to me.