I read about all the complaints about Gettleman, and I get it, he's arrogant and the results havent been good. But at least he's not sitting on his ass like Jerry Reese did. I dont remember Reese ever trying to upgrade the roster during the season, he drafted shitty players and kept them too long.
I'm starting to lose faith in Shurmur as a HC but to be honest the offense was pretty good in the second half last season and he's working with a rookie QB who has potential despite the awful turnovers. I dont know if he can ever have a winning season the NFL but i guess he'll get one more year. I cant see them firing a guy who is working with mostly first and second year players (esp on D)
But when is this freaking team going to start to turn it around? I mean enough of this shit already. When is it gonna fucking click? I'm so tired of this. I feel like i'm a realist, and i know what this team is. But they really should have and could have won the previous 2 games. We're staring 2-7 in the face here and I have to sit there again on Monday night and watch fans of an opposing team celebrate in our home stadium.
I really dont see how they are going to get enough players to add to this roster next year to have a magical turn around like the 49ers have done.
So yeah i'm basically writing off 2020 as well at this point.
Rant over
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In comment 14656920 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 14656913 arcarsenal said:
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The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group.
Yes, but he said the offense is close to complete, needing only to add a few lineman to make it complete. That's not true.
I think with an offensive line that is good, not 'adequate', but actually a strength - a pass catching group of Shepard, Slayton, Tate, and Engram (+ Barkley) is good enough to win games. Sure, a Michael Thomas type would probably take it from good to great - but I actually don't think the WR group is terrible right now when we're healthy.
The depth could certainly improve. But, would draft at least two offensive linemen before I even batted an eye @ the WR position.
The 49ers don't have a stud WR - they just acquired Sanders and he's their best one now. Still haven't lost a game. They play defense, run the football, and Jimmy G has made plays with his arm when he's needed to. Last night was probably the best game of his career. You don't need a top flight WR to be a good team. You just need some good ones and some reliable ones.
I don't think anyone's saying you can't do it. But on average, teams don't win with lousy WRs.
And it's another part of the philosophy of the team that kills me. The focus seems to be on running the ball and stopping the run.
In a league that's gone heavily pass first - why? When the rules are basically encouraging you to pass, why would you focus on the run?
This is simply not true. Name an NFL champion over the past 5 years that has had a great WR corps? Tate, Shepard, and Slayton may not be great, but I don't think they are lousy. Hell, we haven't even seen them all, along with Engram, on the field at the same time yet this season.
Also, if you haven't been paying attention to some of the better teams in the league right now, they are running the ball. A lot.
The league has moved towards quicker and faster LBs and Front Sevens. Smart teams like the Pats, 49ers, and Ravens have taken advantage of that and have gone with bigger personnel and run the ball down opposing teams throats.
Unless you have a truly special QB, ala Mahomes or Rodgers, the smarter play right now is building a great running game and defense and controlling the clock.
The sperm recipients in the owners' box have followed virtually every prescription you "fans" and the sportswriters you all listen to wanted and the result is this train wreck- an expansion team. "Oh, it couldn't be worse." You are all finding out now that yes, indeed, it can be worse.
One stupid decision after another. This isn't getting fixed next year or the year after or the year after that. The team needs players, lots of players, and unless Gettleman hits the equivalent of power ball in the lottery and free agency, we are going to spin our wheels-spending resources to shore up positions where injury, Gettleman's seat-of-the-pants trades or free agency create new holes while trying to fix the holes the team started with. He's already admitted by his actions that he has mis-spent 1/3 of his draft picks and needs to spend more picks and dough on a decent defensive linemen.
This clear the cap stuff makes me laugh. You guys never want to pay our own players, but are all in for Gettleman, who has shown zippedy do dah acumen signing free agents, to go out and spend all this new cap money on free agents whose own teams decided they aren't worth it. Perfect. That way he can turn around and trade them to legit contenders after a season or two for more 5th round picks.
And Shurmur blows. Think on this; if he can go 6-10 some season, that record will represent his high water mark in victories as a HC. WTF is he doing here in the first place? He shouldn't have been hired and he should be shown the door at the end of this season. Won't happen though because the excuses will flow from the folks who are too invested in still another error and you guys will swallow those excuses hook, line and sinker.
So, enjoy it. Embrace the suck. Keep rooting for those vet failures that we pick up. Keep seeing great things when an average or below average player has a career day, never to be repeated. This doesn't bother me; I saw 17 years of this stuff. You guys haven't even been half way yet.
Although you are being somewhat of a dick about it, I do have to say I agree with a lot of what you said... mainly the point that NY fans and media can be absolutely brutal and only certain personalities can succeed in NY sports. I literally believe that players succeed IN SPITE OF the fans and media and if anything the fans and media are more often than not detrimental to their teams these days. Everything is "what have you done for me lately" -type of attitude and as soon as a team starts losing it's always "blow the whole thing up and start over it can't possibly be worse, they're all a buncha bums, why can't it be more like when Parcells was here, etc.." Because it isn't our birthright to have a championship or even playoff team every single damn year.
Meanwhile I will also say the team had a character issue in 2017 and a lot of that was exacerbated by the fact that McAdoo was simply not a "leader of men" like Coughlin and Parcells were, he was passive-aggressive and arrogant and a lot of the players alluded to this. As soon as they started losing a couple games, even though they may very well have just been a slump, the media started picking and prodding and the players and coach were not prepared to deal with it, they were too thin-skinned to play in NY and they literally just fell apart and got worse and worse until the whole situation unraveled and there was a total mutiny of fans, players, coaches, media, everyone. It was despicable and disgusting how quickly it all unraveled after JUST coming off of a season where they'd just gone 11-5 and gone to the playoffs. That was my perspective on it anyway.
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you all had it coming so you can suck on it now.
The sperm recipients in the owners' box have followed virtually every prescription you "fans" and the sportswriters you all listen to wanted and the result is this train wreck- an expansion team. "Oh, it couldn't be worse." You are all finding out now that yes, indeed, it can be worse.
One stupid decision after another. This isn't getting fixed next year or the year after or the year after that. The team needs players, lots of players, and unless Gettleman hits the equivalent of power ball in the lottery and free agency, we are going to spin our wheels-spending resources to shore up positions where injury, Gettleman's seat-of-the-pants trades or free agency create new holes while trying to fix the holes the team started with. He's already admitted by his actions that he has mis-spent 1/3 of his draft picks and needs to spend more picks and dough on a decent defensive linemen.
This clear the cap stuff makes me laugh. You guys never want to pay our own players, but are all in for Gettleman, who has shown zippedy do dah acumen signing free agents, to go out and spend all this new cap money on free agents whose own teams decided they aren't worth it. Perfect. That way he can turn around and trade them to legit contenders after a season or two for more 5th round picks.
And Shurmur blows. Think on this; if he can go 6-10 some season, that record will represent his high water mark in victories as a HC. WTF is he doing here in the first place? He shouldn't have been hired and he should be shown the door at the end of this season. Won't happen though because the excuses will flow from the folks who are too invested in still another error and you guys will swallow those excuses hook, line and sinker.
So, enjoy it. Embrace the suck. Keep rooting for those vet failures that we pick up. Keep seeing great things when an average or below average player has a career day, never to be repeated. This doesn't bother me; I saw 17 years of this stuff. You guys haven't even been half way yet.
You seem like a fun time at parties.
Nice! I guess he roots for some other team...
Go race horses full time
Maybe we bring back EA to audit the personnel department similar to the way he hand-picked DG for ownership. His recommendation? Stay the course. You need continuity in this business. Chris Mara was part of 2 SB wins, and he's got the goods. SMH.
There's some wiggle room there. I'm not suggesting you trade for Julio Jones. But a top flight WR would go a long way towards helping this team out. Right now, even when they have time nobody out there is getting separation, and Jones is running around desperately trying to make something happen, which all too often results in disaster.
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Why? They have committed again to building the lines and being a physical again.
they have committed to the OL rebuild, but not really getting results. still need to replace around 50% of the players and add depth
I agree and addressed this in another thread. Short term I think DG with Mara's urging tried to assemble the best OL he could for the last two years. Circumstances changed.
Let's see how aggressive they are this off-season. I expect two OL picks in the first three rounds and most likely a LT round 1. Solder will compete with him and one or the other will be the RT next year imo. Hopefully one of the UFA's/Recent DP's on the roster/practice squad surprise.
Good defense and offense are not mutually exclusive. You can in fact have a good defense and be a pass-first team. The Giants went 11-5 not too long ago in similar fashion.
Their receivers are not good. You make a good point that people always throw that stat out there and that should tell us something about our receivers. I like Shepard, but he is not a #1 receiver, he could be an awesome #3/slot receiver and a serviceable #2. He is not a #1.
Tate is not either. There's a reason why when Philly picked him up he was like their #4 or #5 receiver. I have no idea why Gettleman gave him #1 money. Maybe 5 years ago that contract would have been fine, but not in 2019.
Slayton has been a nice surprise. But he will not be a #1 receiver either. He'll be a fine player and have a nice role as a deep threat, but he ain't no #1.
Even Fowler I don't mind as a guy to come in in 4 WR packages etc., seems like he's had a decent rapport with Jones.
But they need a #1 WR. You don't need a superstar WR to win a super bowl, but you need a clear-cut #1. Period.
I don’t even yell at the TV anymore. I just look for players now that we may be able to build around. We have a few.
It will be several years of good drafting before we are competitive again.
Rookie snap count - ( New Window )
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In comment 14656920 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 14656913 arcarsenal said:
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The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group.
Yes, but he said the offense is close to complete, needing only to add a few lineman to make it complete. That's not true.
I think with an offensive line that is good, not 'adequate', but actually a strength - a pass catching group of Shepard, Slayton, Tate, and Engram (+ Barkley) is good enough to win games. Sure, a Michael Thomas type would probably take it from good to great - but I actually don't think the WR group is terrible right now when we're healthy.
The depth could certainly improve. But, would draft at least two offensive linemen before I even batted an eye @ the WR position.
The 49ers don't have a stud WR - they just acquired Sanders and he's their best one now. Still haven't lost a game. They play defense, run the football, and Jimmy G has made plays with his arm when he's needed to. Last night was probably the best game of his career. You don't need a top flight WR to be a good team. You just need some good ones and some reliable ones.
I don't think anyone's saying you can't do it. But on average, teams don't win with lousy WRs.
And it's another part of the philosophy of the team that kills me. The focus seems to be on running the ball and stopping the run.
In a league that's gone heavily pass first - why? When the rules are basically encouraging you to pass, why would you focus on the run?
We don't have 'lousy' WR's. We don't have an elite one. We could also use better depth. There's a good bit of middle ground between lousy and great.
You want to see a lousy WR group? Go watch the Jets.
Why would you focus on the run in a pass-first league? Simple. The same reason the Patriots found success going so run-heavy late last year. A lot of defense are built to defend the pass. To do so, they have a lot of lighter, more mobile players at the second level. Sometimes these players don't defend the run well and aren't equipped to defend a power running game.
It's zigging when the field is zagging. Following everyone else isn't a great strategy. You never want to be behind the pack following everyone else.
RB's cost less than WR's. It's strategically sound to build a power run game around Barkley, call more designed runs for Jones, and implement a good deal of play action.
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Cant have an owner in the front office.
Go race horses full time
Maybe we bring back EA to audit the personnel department similar to the way he hand-picked DG for ownership. His recommendation? Stay the course. You need continuity in this business. Chris Mara was part of 2 SB wins, and he's got the goods. SMH.
Continuity in the the coaching staff matters
Continuity on the the OL or at QB matters.
I dont see how continuity in the FO matters at all.
It seems to me he is treating this as a part time job these days with an owners level of influence.
So it’s the fans fault?
I do think at some level the fan outrage to the Eli benching set the rebuild two more years. It was time then to seriously transition plan, not try to piecemeal a last run with Eli. The team needed so much help everywhere, yet DG pressed with his square pegs.
Good defense and offense are not mutually exclusive. You can in fact have a good defense and be a pass-first team. The Giants went 11-5 not too long ago in similar fashion.
2016? If you qualify that as 'pass-first', that's fine - but we weren't that good at it. Our pass offense was routinely stifled by basic Cover 2 shells and was entirely reliant on Beckham taking quick slants to the house.
That's not a good way to build an offense.
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So it’s the fans fault?
I do think at some level the fan outrage to the Eli benching set the rebuild two more years. It was time then to seriously transition plan, not try to piecemeal a last run with Eli. The team needed so much help everywhere, yet DG pressed with his square pegs.
meh, thats still on ownership for reacting to the fans.
They're a bottom 3 team right now and it's going to take 2-3 more years to become competitive. At least it looks like they have a QB which is the most important position.
Look at all of the best rushing teams in the league right now. They're almost universally winning teams.
Meanwhile, it's the shitty Falcons out-passing everyone.
Of course, this is game flow stuff too - you run more from ahead, you pass more from behind. But, it seems to me that teams that succeed running the football generally win a good deal of football games.
Chasing a high-octane passing offense would be the wrong strategy in my eyes.
We don't have 'lousy' WR's. We don't have an elite one. We could also use better depth. There's a good bit of middle ground between lousy and great.
You want to see a lousy WR group? Go watch the Jets.
Why would you focus on the run in a pass-first league? Simple. The same reason the Patriots found success going so run-heavy late last year. A lot of defense are built to defend the pass. To do so, they have a lot of lighter, more mobile players at the second level. Sometimes these players don't defend the run well and aren't equipped to defend a power running game.
It's zigging when the field is zagging. Following everyone else isn't a great strategy. You never want to be behind the pack following everyone else.
RB's cost less than WR's. It's strategically sound to build a power run game around Barkley, call more designed runs for Jones, and implement a good deal of play action.
They're a lot closer to lousy than great, that's for sure. Shepard is one hit away from his career being over, and even without that he's a solid #2. Tate's overrated around here - expensive, and doesn't offer much over Shepard. Slayton might actually be a nice find if his hands can improve a bit. But the go-to guy? Not on the roster.
Remembering of course that Engram is a TE, not a WR.
Watch the Jets as an example? Fantastic. The BBI opt out to any discussion these days is always 'well, someone has it worse'.
Follow the Patriots model? Even better advice - all we need is Belichick.
Everyone loves Accorsi these days, so let's take a step back and remember when the offense first started taking off, when Plax was added.
Other than finding a QB, the biggest part of the 49ers turnaround was spending 7 straight first round picks (over multiple GMs) on front 7 players and OL while also investing big $ there via trades and FA. They drafted Armstead, Buckner, McGlinchey, and now potential DPOY Bosa. They also added Dee Ford, Kwon Alexander, Sherman, and our old friend Richburg. Of the 9 highest paid players on their cap just 1 of them was drafted by the 49ers (Joe Staley and that was 12 years and a few regimes ago, 8 picks after we took Aaron Ross).
This is a model Gettleman would be well served to follow going forward and in some ways already has been with Hernandez, Lawrence, Golden, Hill, and now Leonard Williams - though the most critical part will be doubling down on it with our next high picks now that we have Jones. And finding better coaches.
And thanks for exaggerating the Patriots point. You don't need to have Bill Belichick to run the football.
Resources are finite in the NFL; it's not that an elite WR wouldn't make the Giants better, it's that upgrading OTHER positions offensively would probably have more of an impact.
If I have a choice between making the OL a strength and finding a WR1, it's the former for me every time. A great WR does nothing if the line sucks and doesn't protect the QB. Every Giants fan saw this for years. I shouldn't need to explain why that doesn't work.
We already watched the Giants with an elite WR from 2014-2018. With the exception of one year led by a top 5 defense, all we did was field mostly bad offenses and lose football games.
So, if you're really dying to see us with a top-flight WR, just go back and watch those teams that featured a guy who was arguably the best in the game (or close) at the time and watch us lose just like we are now.
I don’t even yell at the TV anymore. I just look for players now that we may be able to build around. We have a few.
It will be several years of good drafting before we are competitive again.
I’m pretty sure most of the board isn’t in their 60s
We need to be competitive in 2020, period. I'm not saying Super Bowl competitive, let's be realistic. I'd settle for just meaningful November/December game competitive. Have a shot at the post-season competitive. There has been no reason to go to a game later in the season. Why go to a game in December in the freezing cold surrounded by asshole Eagle fans to watch the Giants get crushed. I can think of better things to do with my money.
I'd like to go to a meaningful/fun cold weather game. How about that for starters...
We were all younger, but at least I gave a shit back then. Now I just expect them to fold against any average to good team
100% agree Jon
JonC,
"four or more" seasons? I know you're lamenting this fact, but to me if it takes "four or more" seasons that means you are on the verge of a decade of losing. Because after 4-5 years you are not going to now have a "solid foundation", rather you are invariably going to have roster turnover because you can't resign every singly player that you hit on in the draft, a lot of them are going to walk in FA and you need to start over and hit on new players in the draft. Teams that win super bowls rely heavily on their youth and the fact that they are getting bargains for young players playing well on cheap salaries (namely, the QB, which helps quite a bit when he is playing well on a rookie QB salary). By year 4 or 5 we're going to have to pay any players we actually hit on in the draft massive contracts and then hope we hit on more in next drafts. Vets who are actually decent players now are going to age and not be any good anymore and we'll have to hit on more vets in FA. There's so much turnover in this "not for long" league in the era of the salary cap that you only have a certain window to turn a team around and win, if you take more than 4 years than you're just in a vicious cycle of turnover and mediocrity, you don't necessarily have a "solid foundation" at that time.
btw - where do you all think this was going?
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to clear out the roster and salary cap, and build the foundation. Now, it feels like they'll need four or more, unless DG starts to hit UFA more effectively. I also think the coaching staff isn't going to lead us to a championship, so I'd rather get that settled sooner than later.
JonC,
"four or more" seasons? I know you're lamenting this fact, but to me if it takes "four or more" seasons that means you are on the verge of a decade of losing. Because after 4-5 years you are not going to now have a "solid foundation", rather you are invariably going to have roster turnover because you can't resign every singly player that you hit on in the draft, a lot of them are going to walk in FA and you need to start over and hit on new players in the draft. Teams that win super bowls rely heavily on their youth and the fact that they are getting bargains for young players playing well on cheap salaries (namely, the QB, which helps quite a bit when he is playing well on a rookie QB salary). By year 4 or 5 we're going to have to pay any players we actually hit on in the draft massive contracts and then hope we hit on more in next drafts. Vets who are actually decent players now are going to age and not be any good anymore and we'll have to hit on more vets in FA. There's so much turnover in this "not for long" league in the era of the salary cap that you only have a certain window to turn a team around and win, if you take more than 4 years than you're just in a vicious cycle of turnover and mediocrity, you don't necessarily have a "solid foundation" at that time.
Let me be a little more clear with my thoughts and put it this way:
I keep hearing people saying: "clearly we're in rebuilding mode, we've torn the roster down and of course we're going to be crappy for a few years while adding the correct pieces one by one." But here's my thing: this roster has already been built entirely by Gettleman from top to bottom and from where I'm sitting I see literally zero improvement from 2017, and if anything this team looks worse than 2017 (regardless of record, the team just looks bad, we're a missed 34 yd field goal away from being 1-6). If Gettleman has gotten the right players, then why aren't we at least "competing" and somewhere close to winning. This is Gettleman's team. What are we/they waiting for before they're suddenly going to be good or even decent? If he's picked the right football players they should at least be playing decent football. They are not. They suck. They aren't suddenly going to become good football players. Simple as that. Mara, Gettleman, and Shurmur are behind almost every other Owner, GM, and coach in the NFL. They shouldn't have to lose 59-0 every game for us to realize that. The same way we shouldn't have had to see Eli throw 38 interceptions a game to realize he simply wasn't a $20M top 15 QB in this league anymore.
I also don't get where DG is arrogant. My God, if you want to talk arrogance, then let's talk the former regime where Reese spoke rarely and was often petulant. Hey, I wanted us to be better this year also and hopefully challenge for a playoff spot. It just proves once again that you have to draft well. If you do not, no amount of FA spending is going to fix that.
Gettleman has had two good drafts although I wish he had spent more draft capital on the OL. Still, this just proves what a bad position we were in.
JonC referred to the coaching staff and I am in agreement there as well. These last 8 games are an evaluation of Shurmur and Bettcher and whether we can go forward with them. But, my goodness, we still need help at LB, pass rush and OL. I am still not sold on Evan Engram...he is just invisible too often...one great game and then 3 or 4 average ones plus he is an injury waiting to happen.
I'm getting older and want us to compete for the Super Bowl every year, like the Patriots do, but if there is an issue with the Giants everyone should be upset about it is ownership. I have lost complete confidence in John Mara. To my mind, if we want to complain, the one constant has been him. So, like, figure it out who is at fault.
Ffs Gibbs invented the H-Back and 12 personnel to stop LT decades ago, instead Shemur has SB constantly pas blocking.
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In comment 14656935 arcarsenal said:
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In comment 14656920 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 14656913 arcarsenal said:
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The line is a far bigger problem than the WR group.
Yes, but he said the offense is close to complete, needing only to add a few lineman to make it complete. That's not true.
I think with an offensive line that is good, not 'adequate', but actually a strength - a pass catching group of Shepard, Slayton, Tate, and Engram (+ Barkley) is good enough to win games. Sure, a Michael Thomas type would probably take it from good to great - but I actually don't think the WR group is terrible right now when we're healthy.
The depth could certainly improve. But, would draft at least two offensive linemen before I even batted an eye @ the WR position.
The 49ers don't have a stud WR - they just acquired Sanders and he's their best one now. Still haven't lost a game. They play defense, run the football, and Jimmy G has made plays with his arm when he's needed to. Last night was probably the best game of his career. You don't need a top flight WR to be a good team. You just need some good ones and some reliable ones.
I don't think anyone's saying you can't do it. But on average, teams don't win with lousy WRs.
And it's another part of the philosophy of the team that kills me. The focus seems to be on running the ball and stopping the run.
In a league that's gone heavily pass first - why? When the rules are basically encouraging you to pass, why would you focus on the run?
We don't have 'lousy' WR's. We don't have an elite one. We could also use better depth. There's a good bit of middle ground between lousy and great.
You want to see a lousy WR group? Go watch the Jets.
Why would you focus on the run in a pass-first league? Simple. The same reason the Patriots found success going so run-heavy late last year. A lot of defense are built to defend the pass. To do so, they have a lot of lighter, more mobile players at the second level. Sometimes these players don't defend the run well and aren't equipped to defend a power running game.
It's zigging when the field is zagging. Following everyone else isn't a great strategy. You never want to be behind the pack following everyone else.
RB's cost less than WR's. It's strategically sound to build a power run game around Barkley, call more designed runs for Jones, and implement a good deal of play action.
Great post. Agree completely.
No. It means they got more talent on this team and that is how you field a sustainably good product. Having 3 straight solid drafts. That is not on the owners.
The team building and coaching are the single biggest factors in having a good football team. Personally, I feel that this team is on the right path after having 6+ years of bad drafts to recover from.
Well that's just it, right? Is this team one great draft away from turning the corner? Is the foundation really in place to enough of an extent that there's a tipping point in the near future?
If you believe that the team really is one great draft away, then to some extent you fundamentally already don't have a problem with ownership's choice for GM and/or the GM's choice for HC, right?
And the inverse is also true - if you genuinely believe that ownership and the continued emphasis on going back to the same well to fill the front office is a problem, you probably also don't really believe that this team is one great draft away.
I suppose you can believe that the team is in position to begin to track toward quantifiable progress (in terms of winning) in spite of ownership, but I feel like that's logically inconsistent on some level.
I did expect to see incremental improvements. And the list of needs to grow shorter.
Maybe more of the problems are with the coaching than it seems. But I look at the list of needs and it never gets shorter, even in the last 2 years.
Defense:
Dline: We have 3 run stuffers, still need a more dynamic player that can get an outside pass rush from the opposite side of the ER.
ER: obvious need
LB: We've trotted out hot garbage at LB for a decade, its still hot garbage and now we run a 3-4 which requires better LBs. We finally get one that looks to be at least competant and he promptly tears his ACL. Still need 3 of these.
CB: We've needed one opposite JJ since he got here. Noe JJ will be moving on... Baker seems likely to b a competent one, now we need a replacement on the other side. Slot CB seems like a forever need as well. plus depth.
FS: Needed one of these since Rolle moved to SS. Even Rolle was a hybrid DB. Need to go back Gibril Wilson since we had a true FS.
Offense:
OL: Need 2 tackles and a center. The Giants have been trying to plug in players off the NFL trash heap since the last SB. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing, that has failed in the past, over and over and expecting a better result. Except for Hernandez, the Giants haven't successfully drafted and developed an OL player since Will Beatty if you consider Beatty a success. Before that, you have to go back to Chris Snee 15 years ago. At best they have drafted and developed 3 OL in the last 15 years. That's just an incredible record of futility.
WR: looked like a strength for a while, but now OBJ is gone and SS might retire, if he returns, will he last, will he be the same guy going over the middle? And the last time this team had a real #2 WR was Manningham. Maybe, hopefully D. Slayton can grow into 1 starter role, but reality is they probably need 2 more in the next couple years.
TE: Ellison probably won't be back. Need a good in-line run blocking TE that can catch a pass.
In summary thats:
1 DL, 1 ER, 3 LB, 2 CB, 1 FS, 3 OL, 2 WR, 1 TE
That list just never seems to get shorter!
It feels like the Giants are spinning their wheels in the mud.
At least it doesn't include QB anymore. At least for now.
I hate the thought of just KNOWING there is no way in hell the Cowboys don’t score on their first possession. In addition, I would be shocked if they scored less than 30. That is how much I have faith in our coaches and our secondary.
I don’t think we are as far off as it seems.
1. Shurmur gets the rest of this year to show growth in Jones. If Jones does not look better, Shurmur has got to go. For me, his hire was directly tied to his ability to get production from the QB position(See Keenum & Foles) Fair or not, if Jones does not improve Shurmur should be cut.
2. That said, I believe in Jones. I think DG drafted the right guy. Nothing was more important than hitting on the QB. I know we need to see more to be certain, but I believe we have our future.
3. I LOVE the trade for L Williams. Big Cat has legit talent. This is the type of move we NEVER used to make. I don’t see desperation, I believe there are only a handful of human beings on the planet that move like Lawrence and Williams at their size. DG is trying to put a few on the line. 3rd and 4th/5th for a human that moves like Williams at his age is a good get. Of course Williams has warts, if he did not he would have cost a lot more. They see him as a building block. So do I. I like the potential ROI.
4. Defense is young, we are playing a lot of young guys. This is an investment in 2020 that we are paying in 2019. I expect these guys to grow during the year. No matter when you were going to give them the experience, they were going to make mistakes that cost games. Might as well be this year. Get Bethea out of there, no reason for it.
5. I think D Slayton has the chance to be a number 1, he is improving. He makes plays.
6. Next year is the big year, We have money, we need to spend it wisely and we should have some players that learned a lot this year.
I do see a plan and I like it.
Agreed 100%, DG gets a pass from some around here, and outside of the qb position, I just don't see the improvement. I also see poor resource allocation.
I don’t think we are as far off as it seems.
1. Shurmur gets the rest of this year to show growth in Jones. If Jones does not look better, Shurmur has got to go. For me, his hire was directly tied to his ability to get production from the QB position(See Keenum & Foles) Fair or not, if Jones does not improve Shurmur should be cut.
2. That said, I believe in Jones. I think DG drafted the right guy. Nothing was more important than hitting on the QB. I know we need to see more to be certain, but I believe we have our future.
3. I LOVE the trade for L Williams. Big Cat has legit talent. This is the type of move we NEVER used to make. I don’t see desperation, I believe there are only a handful of human beings on the planet that move like Lawrence and Williams at their size. DG is trying to put a few on the line. 3rd and 4th/5th for a human that moves like Williams at his age is a good get. Of course Williams has warts, if he did not he would have cost a lot more. They see him as a building block. So do I. I like the potential ROI.
4. Defense is young, we are playing a lot of young guys. This is an investment in 2020 that we are paying in 2019. I expect these guys to grow during the year. No matter when you were going to give them the experience, they were going to make mistakes that cost games. Might as well be this year. Get Bethea out of there, no reason for it.
5. I think D Slayton has the chance to be a number 1, he is improving. He makes plays.
6. Next year is the big year, We have money, we need to spend it wisely and we should have some players that learned a lot this year.
I do see a plan and I like it.
This is my FAVORITE POST of the 100 written here. I like how you are able to see past last years and this years losses and Are able to see the BIG PICTURE....2019 is all about 2020.
Some guys apparently didn’t want to believe that....they wanted us to compete for a WC today.....but honestly, is it realistic to expect this when you are playing the most rookies than every other team? And hopefully we get to see two more real soon.....Beal (like a rookie) and Ballentine (And maybe even Love too).
I just want to see us improve and be competitive each week.....for that I can find comfort and HOPE, just like gratefuldead said.
One caveat: I still don’t trust our coaches....all except the DL and ST coaches.
The rosters are designed based on feedback from coaches. They're retained/extended/released/traded based on scouting and feedback that's provided by the coaching staff, and acquisitions are scheme dependent.
If you don't trust the coaches - how do you trust these assessments? How are you sure that the players being developed now are going to fit going forward, if the coaching staff changes materially within the next year or two?
And the fans at Meh Life mostly suck too. Try going to the Linc and talking shit like the animals from Philhy do in our house. Cheerleaders in hot outfits? Goodness forbid! The best thing I can remember seeing a Giants game in the past recent seasons was a halftime act with monkeys riding on the backs of dogs (and let me say, that’s one of the greatest things I’ve ever seen!). Anyway, yeah, we suck. Again.
EE and SB are elite pass catchers to go along with Slayton, Tate and Shepard.
The more guys that can catch the ball and do damage the harder it is for defenses to account for them all.
It's already pretty much a sure thing. McAdoo/Reese went 13-15 over the 2016-17 timeframe. Right now, we'd need to go 7-1 the rest of the way to top their winning pct from that 2-year stretch.
Either Gettleman needs to find a better coach to make his players look better, or he needs to find better players in the first place (or Mara needs to find a better GM, but the odds of Gettleman getting fired are longer than the odds of any of us getting hired to replace him).