How can the Giants be fixed?

fire staff.
hire rhule(if BB not avail)

draft Thomas in round one. make a couple quality FA signings including an edge(dupree or clowney)
draft a WR early too.

thats a solid start

Purge PS and DG. Get someone in here from one of the successful organizations. This regime won’t ever win here.

There needs to be a complete overhaul. A facelift.

When youre run by morons who are owners

"Everyone?"

has worked in the past.

Two years in and you can make an argument that the team is worse and that is is coming off 3-13. Terrible contracts and free agent signings, terrible trades, mediocre draft choices. LOSING CULTURE needs to change and it won't under this GM and coach.

No more Ernie Accorsi looking for people to talk about the 1972 Baltimore Colts with. If you need someone to "consult" with then make it someone who has nothing to do with the franchise and can talk to you honestly.

get at leat 2-3 good to very good linebackers.

Bring in a top notch guy from OUTSIDE the organization, someone with no ties to the franchise and no loyalties to blind him to the realities of how there needs to be a complete housecleaning. Have him rebuild the scouting and coaching staffs with guys who share his vision, get everyone on the same page.

Or somehow talk Belichick into coming here. One or the other.

In comment 14663688 St. Jimmy said:

Quote:

has worked in the past.

Mara tops the list of those we need to get rid of.

In comment 14663662 BleedBlue said:

Quote:

fire staff. hire rhule(if BB not avail) draft Thomas in round one. make a couple quality FA signings including an edge(dupree or clowney) draft a WR early too. thats a solid start

I get pissed off every time someone talks about Bill Belichick being available. He will never be available to be a head coach for the Giants. The same reason Don Shula never coached anywhere after Miami, Chuck Knoll never coached anywhere after Pittsburgh, Belichick will not coach anywhere except New England.

DG has drafted well in the last 2 drafts but not enough to make up for the years of neglect.

Has done a poor job with FA but under tight budgets... Has opened up some cap.....so we will see

The Giants barely have enough minimal NFL talent let alone enough difference makers.

and open to a new GM. However, who is going to be much better AND is available?

When both the coach and the GM were fired last time, nobody stood out as the OBVIOUS choice.

Top coaches and GMs are currently employed.

In comment 14663662 BleedBlue said:

Quote:

fire staff. hire rhule(if BB not avail) draft Thomas in round one. make a couple quality FA signings including an edge(dupree or clowney) draft a WR early too. thats a solid start

I like the idea of Rhule

unless things really start to unravel and the team quits. As uninspiring as he is, thats what it will probably take for him not to be the HC in 2020.

For me, I say draft a franchise OT with the projected top 6 pick they will have. That means either Andrew Thomas or Wirfs.

Replace Ogletree and Bethea in the draf/FA. These guys, along with the rook Baker, are the weak-links on D.

Need to upgrade the back-end of the WR core too. Not much separation being created w/o Shep on the field.

He needs to acknowledge that he's lost, and an outside entity needs to be hired to teach him how to structure the front office. I've been through it a million times over the last couple years, and I'm tired of spelling it out.

It doesn't matter.

In comment 14663705 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Bring in a top notch guy from OUTSIDE the organization, someone with no ties to the franchise and no loyalties to blind him to the realities of how there needs to be a complete housecleaning. Have him rebuild the scouting and coaching staffs with guys who share his vision, get everyone on the same page. Or somehow talk Belichick into coming here. One or the other.

Give BB a call, tell him he can be the GM, his son can be the coach, and Mara and Tisch will be relegated to cheerleader tryouts.

(and yes, I know they don't have cheerleaders)

In comment 14663781 Go Terps said:

Quote:

He needs to acknowledge that he's lost, and an outside entity needs to be hired to teach him how to structure the front office. I've been through it a million times over the last couple years, and I'm tired of spelling it out. It doesn't matter.

You know what might finally do it? A loss to the Jets next week.

In comment 14663781 Go Terps said:

Quote:

He needs to acknowledge that he's lost, and an outside entity needs to be hired to teach him how to structure the front office. I've been through it a million times over the last couple years, and I'm tired of spelling it out. It doesn't matter.

Nope, it won't matter, because the Giants don't hire from "outside the family". There's no Pete Rozelle to force the issue anymore.

But since that won't happen I'd say the franchise is fucked.

I'm sure the Pats and GB, who got totally outplayed, outcoached, outgunned, are saying, how do we fix this. Just another game, can rebound next week.

In comment 14663810 stoneman said:

Quote:

I'm sure the Pats and GB, who got totally outplayed, outcoached, outgunned, are saying, how do we fix this. Just another game, can rebound next week.

Good stuff, thanks. Hey, what's those teams' record over the past 7 years or so?

In comment 14663810 stoneman said:

Quote:

I'm sure the Pats and GB, who got totally outplayed, outcoached, outgunned, are saying, how do we fix this. Just another game, can rebound next week.

43-71 since Sandy. Yup, we are the Pats or the Packers. It’s all good here.

And that is this:

The Giants aren't trying to win. They are hoping to win. Teams that try to win turn over every stone looking for an edge, no matter how slight. Teams that try to win don't let sentimentality, nostalgia, or public opinion sway decision making.

The Giants don't try to win. They hope to win. It may not seem a big difference but in reality it can be measured in light years.

He’s the only “family member” capable of fixing this shit, and we’re sure as hell not going outside the Mara comfort zone.

Gee, how many times do we have to go through the obvious moves that need to be made?

They are discussed yearly, monthly, weekly, daily, hourly.

Unfortunately ownership isn't changing. So you need to completely overhaul the talent evaluation people. Everyone. Gettleman, Abrams, Chris Mara, Koncz, McDonnell, etc needs to go. They are clearly unable to assemble enough quality talent to contend at the professional level.

In comment 14663816 Go Terps said:

Quote:

And that is this: The Giants aren't trying to win. They are hoping to win. Teams that try to win turn over every stone looking for an edge, no matter how slight. Teams that try to win don't let sentimentality, nostalgia, or public opinion sway decision making. The Giants don't try to win. They hope to win. It may not seem a big difference but in reality it can be measured in light years.

I think it’s more that they want to win on their terms. It’s tricky, because “their terms” has yielded 4 SB’s since 1986, but that ain’t working now.

43-71 since Sandy is all that needs to be said.

In comment 14663824 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

He’s the only “family member” capable of fixing this shit, and we’re sure as hell not going outside the Mara comfort zone.

I laughed at this. The only “family member” capable of fixing this. Sad, but true

Because they do that, and because the staff is "family", the ownership shirks from making tough decisions when those "family members" aren't getting the job done. So, even when they fire the GM, they trot out the Toupee as a consultant and he ends up hiring his 68 year old buddy who already worked for the team for years prior. Because he's a "Giants guy".

Someone needs to stop running the franchise like a family and start running it like a business, a cold and calculating business.

to contend. I think he’ll let Shurmur go at some point within the next year and hopefully our talent level will have come a long way within the next two years. We need a TON of talent,

They're are certain things to keep an eye on,like Betcher for instance.

But if you liked the Giants drafts the past couple years,why would you tear it down again.

In comment 14663857 yatqb said:

Quote:

to contend. I think he’ll let Shurmur go at some point within the next year and hopefully our talent level will have come a long way within the next two years. We need a TON of talent,

It's a real stretch at this point to say DG deserves anymore time making decision for the future of this team...

His specialty was supposedly building both interior lines.

Where's the evidence of that?

Must go's:

halapio
bethea
haley
ogletree
jenkins

JAG's that can be upgraded:

ellison
remmers
chandler
hamilton
fowler
pierre
m thomas

In comment 14663855 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

Because they do that, and because the staff is "family", the ownership shirks from making tough decisions when those "family members" aren't getting the job done. So, even when they fire the GM, they trot out the Toupee as a consultant and he ends up hiring his 68 year old buddy who already worked for the team for years prior. Because he's a "Giants guy". Someone needs to stop running the franchise like a family and start running it like a business, a cold and calculating business.

In hindsight, that 'Finding Giants' scouting special that played on the NFLN should have been a real eye opener.

A lot of the scouts have been around for a very long time (remember the one where the focal point of the segment was how he found the best candy on campus?). These are the guys at the root of the problem IMO, and they've been around forever in a lot of cases. Pretty sure at last check Tom Boisture's son is in the FO there. I wonder how much of it is merit and how much of it is 'family'.

In comment 14663681 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

"Everyone?"

Agree..

BTW-- I hate the 3-4 unless I have at least one beast as an OLB.

I ssume you are talking quick fix?
Anyways, I think you need to decide how much are you going to spend in FA? Anyone that is 29 or above -- pass on them. I'm assuming LW is a good DL so we lose a 3rd and a 4th.

You want to win now - cut Ogletree, Ellison, Martin, Bethea and Pulley. You've just freed up an add'l over $23m in cap space. Maybe if SS retires we have more. Get mostly defense. You get LW, but also get best or 2nd best pass rushing OLB, and get best or 2nd best ILB. After you get these 3 decide between the Safety or Center. I cna be persuaded ot get JC Trtter though he is a bit older tahn I'd like. But also get a cheap but serviceable blocking TE.

This team has many holes so I would look to trade down. The worse we are this year the better to trade down. I'm okay as SY and Eric have eluded to - play the young guys - see what they are. I don't believe they are anything much but then we windup something like 4-12. In a way it's tanking but in a way it isn't. I want to see if Love can play S. I want to see more of Ballentine and Beal.

I want to see if any of those Tackles we have can play. And I wouldn't play them vs the tough teams - Id play them vs the 3 weaker teams and maybe the Bears.

In summary -- if you want to try to win right away go extreme in FA and get a LW for DE in 304. Get TWO Linebackers. A pass-rushing stud OLB and a stud ILB. These 3 guys set your front 7 defense. ANd you still have money ot overpay for a S or a C and get a serviceable TE.

And by trading down at the LEAST you should be getting 1 extra pick in rd 1 and overall 3 picks by end of early rd 2. With these 3 picks you get your Tackle, and you get a Center or Safety whichever you didn't get in FA and then you have the luxury to take BPA with the other pick.

In this scenario you've significantly upgraded 7 positions with just "surviving" at Te while having one pick for BPA in rd 1 or rd 2. Yes you have to live with Solder for another year. -- Sorry. Anyways I think he can be serviceable.

*****Frankly, I have such a low opinion of DG and crew I'm okay with minimal moves and seeing what they can do for next year. And if they suck- fire them all. If they did minimal moves and at least we were in playoff hunt the last week or tow with extremely enormous cap space I can live with it. My expectations for DG and crew are low.

How about seeing ANY of Beal?

In comment 14664092 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

How about seeing ANY of Beal?

Yes. That's what I meant.

might be a good place to start.

Is that fixed as in a chair, or fixed as in a cat?

Probably easier to fix this team as in a cat.

Get new starting tackles and a center
Add two BMFs in the front seven

Back to the 43 defense this shit is ridiculous.... I think this personnel is better suited for it

First, hope that Chad Slade can develop into a good starter. OL has to run block better

Second, draft well next year - LB and OT have to be at top of shopping list.

Don't rush to judgment over secondary - accept the growing pains. Pass rush will make them all play better.

Consider using a real fullback.

draft well, get good coaches, execute on game day. You have to think of this team as bottoming out now. They are SF, Rams, Arizona, Browns territory from a few years ago bad. I know people say there are quick turnarounds now in the NFL but this team is so devoid of talent and coaching it's looking like a 3-5 year major slump coming while they try to acquire talent.

Period

In comment 14663670 Anakim said:

Quote:

There needs to be a complete overhaul. A facelift.

Lmao. What does this even mean? You want to be part of the solution? Are you wanting to bring your YouTube credentials to the Giants brass?

You gonna strap a helmet on?

In comment 14664279 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14663670 Anakim said: Quote: There needs to be a complete overhaul. A facelift. Lmao. What does this even mean? You want to be part of the solution? Are you wanting to bring your YouTube credentials to the Giants brass? You gonna strap a helmet on?

I want to work for the Giants and get this ship back on course. I want to devote all my energy into improving this team.

In comment 14664315 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 14664279 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: In comment 14663670 Anakim said: Quote: There needs to be a complete overhaul. A facelift. Lmao. What does this even mean? You want to be part of the solution? Are you wanting to bring your YouTube credentials to the Giants brass? You gonna strap a helmet on? I want to work for the Giants and get this ship back on course. I want to devote all my energy into improving this team.

Nice, you got my curiosity. Want to work for them in what capacity? I know you do some scouting on the side and bring some insight to the board around draft time. Something like that?

In comment 14664333 LawrenceTaylor56 said:

Quote:

In comment 14664315 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 14664279 LawrenceTaylor56 said: Quote: In comment 14663670 Anakim said: Quote: There needs to be a complete overhaul. A facelift. Lmao. What does this even mean? You want to be part of the solution? Are you wanting to bring your YouTube credentials to the Giants brass? You gonna strap a helmet on? I want to work for the Giants and get this ship back on course. I want to devote all my energy into improving this team. Nice, you got my curiosity. Want to work for them in what capacity? I know you do some scouting on the side and bring some insight to the board around draft time. Something like that?

Initially, yes. I want to work in the front office.

You gotta bring in someone with no ties to this organization who can give a clear & honest assessment of what's wrong & how it can be fixed.

And I have no confidence Mara will do this. God forbid he steps out of his comfort zone. Remember, his old man-God bless his soul-was such an abject failure for almost 2 decades that Rozelle had to practically give us GY.

at times like this. We have tried everything stated in this thread at Everton in the EPL and we're in the relegation positions. Here are my views based on that experience, in a league where we can and do spend more money than most teams.

1 - You have to find the right coach and stick with him. Was Koeman the answer? I'm not sure. I am pretty sure Sam Allardyce wasn't. Silva not going well either but I do like him. Takeaway...the right coach is hard to find but it means EVERYTHING. I have sympathy with those who say we need to start looking.

2 - There will be hard times in any rebuild. It is worth staying the path to be absolutely sure you don't have the right guy before you change because change itself has its own negatives if it becomes too frequent.

3 - Changing owner doesn't necessarily solve anything, even if he outspends the other owners. Changing director of football (read GM) doesn't achieve much. We have Marcel Brands and he is considered an elite guy but 18 months into his rebuild it looks pretty Gettleman-esque. Worse actually.

My takeaway is you need to give people time unless you can really Abramovich the situation and outspend everyone by an enormous amount. The biggest thing is getting a great coach which is also the hardest thing to achieve.

With regards to the Giants I am not sold on Shurmur at all and am fine with change there but I haven't lost confidence in Gettleman. He's delivered two seemingly good drafts but we are at very early days. They could look great, they could end up looking poor/unlucky as Reese's did. He deserves time though. Changing too quickly is as bad as waiting. Often worse.