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Gettleman did not hire Shurmur, Mara did

nygiants16 : 11/5/2019 9:22 am
I see this being posted that Gettleman hired Shurmur, this is not true. Mara hires the coach they do not let the GM make that call..

They are in the meetings and interviews but in the end Mara hires the coach.
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Correct  
JINTin Adirondacks : 11/5/2019 9:24 am : link
And it will be Mara/Tisch who make a coaching change, Not the GM.
Very true..  
Sean : 11/5/2019 9:24 am : link
And why Gettleman will outlast Shurmur.
Mara is a buffoon.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/5/2019 9:25 am : link
A clown owner.
.  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2019 9:26 am : link
I don't know if this is or isn't true - but what I do know, is that John Mara may be the biggest obstacle the Giants have right now. Which, is why simply firing Shurmur and Gettleman may not be the answer here.

Don't get me wrong; Pat Shurmur has been terrible. He deserves to be fired. Gettleman has been a mixed bag. You can point to some good stuff, you can point to some 'eh' - and you can definitely point to some bad.

If John Mara is the one who is hiring the coaches, we're in even deeper shit than I thought because guess what... all that means is that he's picking the next guy, too. Why should we have any confidence Shurmur's successor will be better when he's really not much better than McAdoo (if at all) ?

Gettleman shouldn't be absolved entirely here, but the fact that John and Chris Mara are still at the top of this food chain gives me just about zero confidence in a fix coming any time soon.

I don't think either guy really has any idea what they're doing or looking for.
So what you're saying is if Gettleman didn't want Shurmur  
jcn56 : 11/5/2019 9:27 am : link
Mara would have hired him anyway?
RE: So what you're saying is if Gettleman didn't want Shurmur  
nygiants16 : 11/5/2019 9:28 am : link
In comment 14664641 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Mara would have hired him anyway?


Yes, Mara is going to hire who he wants to hire...

Yeah and our biggest problem  
Oscar : 11/5/2019 9:28 am : link
Is that Mara will make the next coaching hire as well, whenever that is. He’s hired McAdoo and Shurmur so far, can’t say I have much confidence he’ll get the next one right.

It’s one hell of a competition for worst owner in New York I’ll say that.
I don't remember  
Dnew15 : 11/5/2019 9:29 am : link
people complaining about Mara/Tisch and Jints central when TC lead the Giants to two Super Bowls.

TC was the ultimate Jints hire - and it worked like a champ.

They went back to the well and it didn't work (at least not right away). That doesn't make them bad owners.
So then who hired 2 rings Coughlin?  
Ryan in Albany : 11/5/2019 9:29 am : link
.
Mara is a bottom rung owner propped up by his last name  
Ben in Tampa : 11/5/2019 9:29 am : link
at least Jerry Jones owns it. Mara meddles from the shadows.
RE: So then who hired 2 rings Coughlin?  
Ben in Tampa : 11/5/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14664652 Ryan in Albany said:
Quote:
.


Wellington Mara
This team is undisciplined  
Carson53 : 11/5/2019 9:30 am : link
both Shurmur and Bettcher can go if you ask me.
The defense routinely has blown assignments on a weekly basis, and the coach looks like he is in over his head.
I have been trying to give Shurmur the benefit of the doubt, but it is increasingly hard to do so.
I don't buy it  
ij_reilly : 11/5/2019 9:30 am : link
If Gettleman said "Hire Mr. X" then Mara isn't going to hire "Mr. Y".

Not at that point in time.

That would be totally undermining your brand spanking new GM.

Gettleman is responsible for Shurmur.

Mara is responsible for Gettleman.
RE: So then who hired 2 rings Coughlin?  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2019 9:30 am : link
In comment 14664652 Ryan in Albany said:
Quote:
.


Probably Accorsi.
RE: I don't remember  
nygiants16 : 11/5/2019 9:31 am : link
In comment 14664651 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
people complaining about Mara/Tisch and Jints central when TC lead the Giants to two Super Bowls.

TC was the ultimate Jints hire - and it worked like a champ.

They went back to the well and it didn't work (at least not right away). That doesn't make them bad owners.


wellington mara hired coughlin and went against everyone to hire him
RE: RE: So then who hired 2 rings Coughlin?  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2019 9:34 am : link
In comment 14664663 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14664652 Ryan in Albany said:


Quote:


.



Probably Accorsi.


...which would have been by extension of Wellington rather than John.

I believe Wellington and EA were eye to eye on Coughlin and probably made that call in concert.

Not sure who made this one, but it's definitely clear that John Mara isn't much of a football guy. Right now, he's just the son of the real owner - who is no longer with us.
The reason  
Carson53 : 11/5/2019 9:34 am : link
Gettleman is hear in the first place, is that after the
McAdoo fiasco...Mara wanted somebody he knew he had a comfort level in, hence DG.
I think DG will get a longer leash than Shurmur. Lets not kid ourselves though,
they both wanted Shurmur. It wasn't one or the other.
Arc  
Sean : 11/5/2019 9:35 am : link
The amount of failed HC hirings in this league is overwhelming. Hard to make that a Mara issue. He struck out twice now, but if you listened to the fans here:

-Fire Coughlin for Weis in 2006
-Fire Coughlin in 2010
-Hire Adam Gase
-Hire Hue Jackson, etc.

I also don’t know if you were joking about Accorsi wanting Coughlin, but if you read his book it was clear that was a Wellington hire.

John Mara deserves credit for keeping Coughlin after 2006 & 2010.
RE: I don't buy it  
JINTin Adirondacks : 11/5/2019 9:35 am : link
In comment 14664662 ij_reilly said:
Quote:
If Gettleman said "Hire Mr. X" then Mara isn't going to hire "Mr. Y".

Not at that point in time.

That would be totally undermining your brand spanking new GM.

Gettleman is responsible for Shurmur.

Gettleman isn't hiring Mr. X unless Mara Tisch say hire mr X.

Mara is responsible for Gettleman.
why do people think giants always hire  
nygiants16 : 11/5/2019 9:36 am : link
Guys that have been in their system? Gettleman knows how the giants operate, you dont think he knew how the coaching hire works?
RE: RE: RE: So then who hired 2 rings Coughlin?  
Chef : 11/5/2019 9:37 am : link
In comment 14664672 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14664663 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14664652 Ryan in Albany said:


Quote:


.



Probably Accorsi.



...which would have been by extension of Wellington rather than John.

I believe Wellington and EA were eye to eye on Coughlin and probably made that call in concert.

Not sure who made this one, but it's definitely clear that John Mara isn't much of a football guy. Right now, he's just the son of the real owner - who is no longer with us.


I remember pretty clearly that Coughlin wasn not an Accorsi guy. In addition, do people remember the candidates available when they hired Shurmur?
RE: RE: I don't remember  
Dnew15 : 11/5/2019 9:38 am : link
In comment 14664665 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14664651 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


people complaining about Mara/Tisch and Jints central when TC lead the Giants to two Super Bowls.

TC was the ultimate Jints hire - and it worked like a champ.

They went back to the well and it didn't work (at least not right away). That doesn't make them bad owners.



wellington mara hired coughlin and went against everyone to hire him


I'm not buying that. I know that Saban was the organization's first choice - but Saban passed on the Giants.

The way I remember it (and a quick google search kinda confirmed it) was that after Fassel was fired, the entire front office wanted a task master to come in and clean up. Saban and TC certainly fit that bill.

Plus Wellington Mara was 88 when TC was hired - I'm not sure he was pulling the strings on every decision like some here would say.
I don't believe that is true.  
Section331 : 11/5/2019 9:39 am : link
It is a group decision, and Gettleman is involved in the interview and decision-making process. Now I'm sure that Mara has final call if they can't all come to an agreement, but unless we know that was the case, we have no idea who pulled the trigger on Shurmur.
Coughlin is long gone  
Carson53 : 11/5/2019 9:39 am : link
why are people still talking about him?
In case you have forgotten, they didn't make the playoffs
his last four years here, just saying.
RE: I don't remember  
Section331 : 11/5/2019 9:40 am : link
In comment 14664651 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
people complaining about Mara/Tisch and Jints central when TC lead the Giants to two Super Bowls.

TC was the ultimate Jints hire - and it worked like a champ.

They went back to the well and it didn't work (at least not right away). That doesn't make them bad owners.


That was Wellington, not his buffoon son Fredo.
According to an article I found from the NY Times  
Dnew15 : 11/5/2019 9:41 am : link
it was Saban - TC - Crennel - Weis - Lovie Smith

In that order.
RE: Arc  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14664677 Sean said:
Quote:
The amount of failed HC hirings in this league is overwhelming. Hard to make that a Mara issue. He struck out twice now, but if you listened to the fans here:

-Fire Coughlin for Weis in 2006
-Fire Coughlin in 2010
-Hire Adam Gase
-Hire Hue Jackson, etc.

I also don’t know if you were joking about Accorsi wanting Coughlin, but if you read his book it was clear that was a Wellington hire.

John Mara deserves credit for keeping Coughlin after 2006 & 2010.


I didn't read the book - but I always assumed Accorsi was on board with Coughlin. He did interview him, didn't he? Perhaps I'm misremembering.

Anyway... I wanted nothing to do with Adam Gase or Hue Jackson.

Holding onto Coughlin after a 10 win 2010 or a playoff year in 2006 even though we finished 8-8 shouldn't really instill a ton of confidence in Mara's decision making.

After all, he's the same owner who spinelessly forced the same Tom Coughlin out of his position years later, was he not?

I have zero faith in John Mara. No one here should. I don't think he has any clue what it takes to build a successful football team in 2019.
RE: .  
UConn4523 : 11/5/2019 9:41 am : link
In comment 14664638 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I don't know if this is or isn't true - but what I do know, is that John Mara may be the biggest obstacle the Giants have right now. Which, is why simply firing Shurmur and Gettleman may not be the answer here.

Don't get me wrong; Pat Shurmur has been terrible. He deserves to be fired. Gettleman has been a mixed bag. You can point to some good stuff, you can point to some 'eh' - and you can definitely point to some bad.

If John Mara is the one who is hiring the coaches, we're in even deeper shit than I thought because guess what... all that means is that he's picking the next guy, too. Why should we have any confidence Shurmur's successor will be better when he's really not much better than McAdoo (if at all) ?

Gettleman shouldn't be absolved entirely here, but the fact that John and Chris Mara are still at the top of this food chain gives me just about zero confidence in a fix coming any time soon.

I don't think either guy really has any idea what they're doing or looking for.


Mara is easily the biggest obstacle. Eli and his salary are on the books because of Mara, IMO.
And I will add, even the TC hiring,  
Section331 : 11/5/2019 9:42 am : link
even though it worked out great, was still emblamatic of how the Giants operate - only hire guys they know.
RE: RE: RE: I don't remember  
nygiants16 : 11/5/2019 9:43 am : link
In comment 14664693 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
In comment 14664665 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 14664651 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


people complaining about Mara/Tisch and Jints central when TC lead the Giants to two Super Bowls.

TC was the ultimate Jints hire - and it worked like a champ.

They went back to the well and it didn't work (at least not right away). That doesn't make them bad owners.



wellington mara hired coughlin and went against everyone to hire him



I'm not buying that. I know that Saban was the organization's first choice - but Saban passed on the Giants.

The way I remember it (and a quick google search kinda confirmed it) was that after Fassel was fired, the entire front office wanted a task master to come in and clean up. Saban and TC certainly fit that bill.

Plus Wellington Mara was 88 when TC was hired - I'm not sure he was pulling the strings on every decision like some here would say.


Accorsi himself said coughlin was wellington's call and he did not want coughlin
RE: Arc  
Section331 : 11/5/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14664677 Sean said:
Quote:


John Mara deserves credit for keeping Coughlin after 2006 & 2010.


Why? They were a WC in 2006, and won 10 games in 2010 (and were only 3 years off of a SB win).
Maybe Accorsi  
Dnew15 : 11/5/2019 9:50 am : link
said it after the fact - which would make total sense. But all I could find after a quick google search was this article.

I will say - he comments reek of a guy that was told to hire someone he didn't want.

So maybe you're right.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: .  
mrvax : 11/5/2019 9:51 am : link
In comment 14664638 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I don't know if this is or isn't true - but what I do know, is that John Mara may be the biggest obstacle the Giants have right now. Which, is why simply firing Shurmur and Gettleman may not be the answer here.

Don't get me wrong; Pat Shurmur has been terrible. He deserves to be fired. Gettleman has been a mixed bag. You can point to some good stuff, you can point to some 'eh' - and you can definitely point to some bad.

If John Mara is the one who is hiring the coaches, we're in even deeper shit than I thought because guess what... all that means is that he's picking the next guy, too. Why should we have any confidence Shurmur's successor will be better when he's really not much better than McAdoo (if at all) ?

Gettleman shouldn't be absolved entirely here, but the fact that John and Chris Mara are still at the top of this food chain gives me just about zero confidence in a fix coming any time soon.

I don't think either guy really has any idea what they're doing or looking for.


If I owned an NFL team, I would pick the GM. Someone I put my faith in. Allow the GM to make coaching decisions unless I was a "football guy" for many years. Maybe Mara sees himself as a football guy. If so, his company won't have much success.
RE: Maybe Accorsi  
arcarsenal : 11/5/2019 9:53 am : link
In comment 14664742 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
said it after the fact - which would make total sense. But all I could find after a quick google search was this article.

I will say - he comments reek of a guy that was told to hire someone he didn't want.

So maybe you're right. Link - ( New Window )


I just remembered Accorsi saying when they introduced Coughlin that he was the guy they wanted for 11 years or something like that.

I think the other guys were interviewed were Crennel, Weis and Lovie. Not sure if EA wanted one of them more than Coughlin, my memory from 15 years ago is a bit foggy.
Shurmur is not impressing me  
Rjanyg : 11/5/2019 9:54 am : link
I initially liked the hire but we are not a mentally tough team. We are not physically tough. We are a finesse team an that bothers me.

What happened to run the ball, stop the run, rush the passer?

I'm waiting!
RE: RE: Arc  
Sean : 11/5/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14664732 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 14664677 Sean said:


Quote:




John Mara deserves credit for keeping Coughlin after 2006 & 2010.



Why? They were a WC in 2006, and won 10 games in 2010 (and were only 3 years off of a SB win).


I’m guessing you didn’t read BBI in January of 2007. Mara was killed for keeping Coughlin.
RE: RE: Maybe Accorsi  
nygiants16 : 11/5/2019 9:58 am : link
In comment 14664756 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14664742 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


said it after the fact - which would make total sense. But all I could find after a quick google search was this article.

I will say - he comments reek of a guy that was told to hire someone he didn't want.

So maybe you're right. Link - ( New Window )



I just remembered Accorsi saying when they introduced Coughlin that he was the guy they wanted for 11 years or something like that.

I think the other guys were interviewed were Crennel, Weis and Lovie. Not sure if EA wanted one of them more than Coughlin, my memory from 15 years ago is a bit foggy.


Accorsi wanted Saban, Mara wanted Coughlin..
Mara took over as co-owner of the NYG  
Dnew15 : 11/5/2019 10:01 am : link
in 2005. The Giants have won two Super Bowls under his co-ownership.

That's as many as Wellington won in 38 years.

Wellington also was owner during some really tough times in Giants history.

History shows that when it comes to sports, for most franchises, it's all peaks and valleys - and we in a valley and have been for a while now.
RE: RE: RE: Maybe Accorsi  
Dnew15 : 11/5/2019 10:03 am : link
In comment 14664773 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 14664756 arcarsenal said:


Quote:


In comment 14664742 Dnew15 said:


Quote:


said it after the fact - which would make total sense. But all I could find after a quick google search was this article.

I will say - he comments reek of a guy that was told to hire someone he didn't want.

So maybe you're right. Link - ( New Window )



I just remembered Accorsi saying when they introduced Coughlin that he was the guy they wanted for 11 years or something like that.

I think the other guys were interviewed were Crennel, Weis and Lovie. Not sure if EA wanted one of them more than Coughlin, my memory from 15 years ago is a bit foggy.



Accorsi wanted Saban, Mara wanted Coughlin..


I'm pretty sure Saban passed on the Giants - if memory serves correctly - not the other way around.
out of curiosity who is the next Mara in line to take over John's role  
ron mexico : 11/5/2019 10:08 am : link
probably not anytime soon but he is 64

Hopefully it's Kate  
Dnew15 : 11/5/2019 10:10 am : link
at least that way I could care less about what she says b/c I won't be paying attention.
RE: I don't remember  
djm : 11/5/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14664651 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
people complaining about Mara/Tisch and Jints central when TC lead the Giants to two Super Bowls.

TC was the ultimate Jints hire - and it worked like a champ.

They went back to the well and it didn't work (at least not right away). That doesn't make them bad owners.


People weren’t complaining about Wellington in the late 60s either. Then the 15 shitty years followed.

Mara means well but he’s made so many terrible decisions lately.
Some of the comments  
Josh in the City : 11/5/2019 10:17 am : link
here are completely off base. Gettleman was 100% involved in the decision to hire Shurmur. Mara brought on Ernie Accorsi to assist in the GM hire BEFORE they interviewed any coaches. That wasn't an accident or coincidence. Then Gettleman was in all the coach interviews as well and was intimately involved in the decision making process. Mara isn't hiring a GM to as the be all end all for football decisions. But Gettleman was 100% involved in the decision to hire Shurmur and he will be involved in the decision to fire Shurmur if and when it happens.
RE: Coughlin is long gone  
nygnyy274 : 11/5/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14664696 Carson53 said:
Quote:
why are people still talking about him?
In case you have forgotten, they didn't make the playoffs
his last four years here, just saying.


Exactly. This really pisses me off to. The guy was 22-34 from week 9 of 2012 until he was let go in 2015. He should of been fired after 2014 and got another year. He missed the playoffs 4 years in a row and had 3 straight losing season and people say he should of never been let go... I am starting to see in with Eli to.. people are saying how they should put him back in smh
RE: .  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/5/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14664638 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
I don't know if this is or isn't true - but what I do know, is that John Mara may be the biggest obstacle the Giants have right now. Which, is why simply firing Shurmur and Gettleman may not be the answer here.

Don't get me wrong; Pat Shurmur has been terrible. He deserves to be fired. Gettleman has been a mixed bag. You can point to some good stuff, you can point to some 'eh' - and you can definitely point to some bad.

If John Mara is the one who is hiring the coaches, we're in even deeper shit than I thought because guess what... all that means is that he's picking the next guy, too. Why should we have any confidence Shurmur's successor will be better when he's really not much better than McAdoo (if at all) ?

Gettleman shouldn't be absolved entirely here, but the fact that John and Chris Mara are still at the top of this food chain gives me just about zero confidence in a fix coming any time soon.

I don't think either guy really has any idea what they're doing or looking for.


It is really difficult to see who is making the decisions. This seems to have gotten worse post 2011 Super Bowl team imo.
Wellington 100% hired Coughlin  
arniefez : 11/5/2019 10:19 am : link
John Mara is publicly on record that his father hired Coughlin. Accorsi wanted no part of Coughlin and pretty much quit when the Giant wouldn't fire him. Read his book.

The OP is correct the Mara's usually hire the coaches. Wellington hired all the post Allie Sherman coaches until George Young hired Perkins and Parcells. But the Mara's wouldn't let him him fire Parcells after 1983. Young hired the coach after Parcells too and Fassel. Dan Reeves was hired by Wellington after several people Young wanted turned down the job.

Unless the Tisch family has the will and/or the power to do something about it the Mara's will continue to run the entire football program and boy do they suck at it.
RE: RE: So then who hired 2 rings Coughlin?  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/5/2019 10:20 am : link
In comment 14664656 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14664652 Ryan in Albany said:


Quote:


.



Wellington Mara


I agree. I think he wanted Welly wanted him for a long time and he was from the Parcells tree. Ernie I think would have preferred Saban but was over-ruled.
RE: Mara took over as co-owner of the NYG  
Dinger : 11/5/2019 10:21 am : link
In comment 14664781 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
in 2005. The Giants have won two Super Bowls under his co-ownership.

That's as many as Wellington won in 38 years.

Wellington also was owner during some really tough times in Giants history.

History shows that when it comes to sports, for most franchises, it's all peaks and valleys - and we in a valley and have been for a while now.


great points. I still laugh when people mention Wellington like he is some kind of saint. He ran the team into the ground upon his brother Jacks death, fought with his nephew on how to run the team and after 15 years of futility he had to have the league step(the Knicks should be so lucky) in to have any success. His success came after he realized that there are smarter football people than him and THEY should run the team(kinda like Steinbrenner was FORCED to learn that same thing in the early 90's). Tim, his son, doesn't seem to be interfering and seems to have the right intentions, he just doesn't have good luck, good instincts and or good knowledge. Not sure how many owners I'd rather have. Just need to get some decisions right.
RE: And I will add, even the TC hiring,  
nygnyy274 : 11/5/2019 10:22 am : link
In comment 14664709 Section331 said:
Quote:
even though it worked out great, was still emblamatic of how the Giants operate - only hire guys they know.


Yup. They wanted coughlin after the 92 season and he choose Boston college over the giant job. They hired Fassel in 97 who was on the handleys staff in 91 and 92
RE: Mara took over as co-owner of the NYG  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/5/2019 10:29 am : link
In comment 14664781 Dnew15 said:
Quote:
in 2005. The Giants have won two Super Bowls under his co-ownership.

That's as many as Wellington won in 38 years.

Wellington also was owner during some really tough times in Giants history.

History shows that when it comes to sports, for most franchises, it's all peaks and valleys - and we in a valley and have been for a while now.


Come on......TC was almost totally responsible for the 2004-2012 run. If anything, I think Reese/Ross influenced Mara starting around 2012 that created this mess.
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