I dont think he is our long term solution at QB. Just no pocket awareness or vision. Those two things are very hard to correct or teach. You either have it or you dont. To be honest Im surprised we benched Eli for this.
a big part is the coaching he is receiving. They are putting way to much on his plate. Simplify things, get him under center. Shurmur to me is a good OC when he has a very good HC guiding him. Without that.....we get what we are seeing.
Give the kid a chance. Have some damn patience. The kid looks the part and will be fine. I can’t stand the “need it now” attitude these days. Imagine if Jimmy Johnson was fired after his first year. And aikman. And a million others.
a whole lot of difference in the offense with Jones than with Manning. They still have games where the offense doesn't do much. They still have problems in the red zone. So, maybe the problem isn't the QB.
a big part is the coaching he is receiving. They are putting way to much on his plate. Simplify things, get him under center. Shurmur to me is a good OC when he has a very good HC guiding him. Without that.....we get what we are seeing.
It's even simpler than that. We've played a lot of really good DLs through nine games. Our OL can't protect him.
I called it in my game preview this week. He was going to take "a step back" because their DL was going to abuse our OL.
a whole lot of difference in the offense with Jones than with Manning. They still have games where the offense doesn't do much. They still have problems in the red zone. So, maybe the problem isn't the QB.
This isn't hard to figure out. Think this through.
after just a few games, especially rookie QBs playing behind bad OLs with WRs who lead the league in NOT getting separation. Makes a shit-ton of sense.
I'm certainly not ready to give up on him and feel he'll work it out, Â
a big part is the coaching he is receiving. They are putting way to much on his plate. Simplify things, get him under center. Shurmur to me is a good OC when he has a very good HC guiding him. Without that.....we get what we are seeing.
It's even simpler than that. We've played a lot of really good DLs through nine games. Our OL can't protect him.
I called it in my game preview this week. He was going to take "a step back" because their DL was going to abuse our OL.
Yes some good DL's. Don't you think being under center can help offset that? I do. The offensive genius should be able to scheme a running game. All I know is shotgun really limits flexibility for play action. You have a mobile QB. Play action....get him rolled outside, cut the field in half. How about a bootleg with a throwback screen? Maybe two backs? Sitting is shotgun just enables the DL to tee off imo.
we beat Tampa, and pretty much the only reason we had a chance to beat Detroit. He's going to be very good. He's a rookie! We have to be patient with this.
we beat Tampa, and pretty much the only reason we had a chance to beat Detroit. He's going to be very good. He's a rookie! We have to be patient with this.
No, the shanked chip shot is the only reason they beat Tampa.
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
Shurmur needs to hit this home, or otherwise, put him on the bench.
That's how you get a guy to slide all the time.
Agreed. Fumbles or not, he can't keep taking those hits. He shouldn't be taking those hits.
We also need to get Shepard back, as he has the best hands on the team and gets the most separation; however, with his concussion issues, it's uncertain whether we will EVER get Shepard back. WR is a huge need in this draft. Of course, so are EDGE, OLs, and LBs. Awesome.
He is playing way better than Eli did as a rookie Â
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
and these are flaws we see in a lot of QBs, some who succeeded and some who have failed.
You can't look at Jones' body of work and say for sure he is a franchise QB. His ups and downs look similar to Mariota, Winston and many others. Last night he looked bad. People praising his accuracy and decision making need to take another look. The jury is still out. I believe he has a chance to turn a corner. But I don't believe in lying to myself because of homer-ism. This kid might just be a .250 hitter with a bit of pop in a position where we need at least a .300 hitter with 25 hr power to contend. His accuracy and decision-making is flatly inconsistent. Some guys never develop the consistency to be great. Let's hope DJ does.
He throws a beautiful ball. The Tate one hander was a great catch, but note the pass also. Just a gorgeous, Warren Moon level spiral.
I'd like to see him running the ball more - 10 or so planned runs a game.
I'd really like to see him and Barkley operating in Greg Roman's offense... Roman is a completely realistic head coaching candidate to pursue this offseason.
He throws a beautiful ball. The Tate one hander was a great catch, but note the pass also. Just a gorgeous, Warren Moon level spiral.
I'd like to see him running the ball more - 10 or so planned runs a game.
I'd really like to see him and Barkley operating in Greg Roman's offense... Roman is a completely realistic head coaching candidate to pursue this offseason.
he is inconsistent, often inaccurate and often frazzled. Being able to shine on isolated plays, yea, there are 50 QBs in the NFL who can do that. Fact is.. we don't know what we have yet with DJ. It can still go either way.
it this morning(not that his opinion means anything) Shurmer treats him like hes a ten year vet sometimes. He is being asked to do too much. Of he can handle it or not we should be leaning on BArkley not our rookie QB in his 7th start.
that's all you can ask for. Some people got ahead of themselves with his sterling pre-season and the Tampa game and thought that he already was a high quality NFL QB. He's not that yet but gives plenty of indication that he will be.
Did you see anyone with separation like Cooper and Jarwin and Witten had? Every pass play he is holding onto the ball as long as he could just hoping someone can get free a bit......but it never happens.
I did not know what to expect when he was drafted,but,he has demonstrated the physical attributes and mental demeanor to be a really good QB.
The advanced statistics metrics bare this out.
Jones has been timed close to 20 mph on his runs only behind Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson.
He can make all the throws, he is accurate, with a quick strong release. His throws have been timed at 54 mph.
The mistakes he makes are correctable and with a better team around him he can be a franchise QB.
His receivers are quite ordinary and get no separation.
The average separation by the Giants receivers is less than 2 yards. Jones has the highest completion rate in the league on tight window throws. He has the most TDs on tight window throws.This is generally accepted as a predictor of future success.
Jones is in the top (3) in throwing under duress, so it is not surprising that he fumbles and has thrown interceptions. Jones throws 48% completions under duress and over 70% with a clean pocket. He has been sacked 31 times in 8 games.
With an average line and average receivers Jones would be producing on a consistent basis.
Some other notes about Jones, he is tough and willing to get his nose dirty.
He runs effectively and is a willing blocker.
I am not certain why the enmity that some Giant fans have shown Jones. What could they expect from a rookie QB on this team? Just think if the Giants had drafted Haskins, we would still have Eli playing.
The Giants are lucky that they have Daniel Jones he will be a significant reason for the Giants to become a good team.
Did you see anyone with separation like Cooper and Jarwin and Witten had? Every pass play he is holding onto the ball as long as he could just hoping someone can get free a bit......but it never happens.
Yeah our WR even when they make plays are doing it in traffic. Often a CB draped over them with a S closing in. That's a recipe for INT especially since DJ doesn't have a rifle arm.
who knows it’s all on him. He’s forcing some things a bit and is sloppy with holding onto the football.
The contrast is Darnold who looks lost on the football field, something over never once saw or thought from Jones. He’s trying to do too much. It’s a problem, but it’s fixable especially if we get some good players blocking for him.
Jones seems to me, as a spectator as a great rookie, on a team with NO Â
defense, NO running game for whatever reason, and a very limited coaching staff. We are all spectators, so none of our opinions are fully informed. But to attack/fault Jones just seems to me the least informed of al opinions.
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
You never heard of Lamar Jackson??
Lamar Jackson plays for a good team with a conservative offense and is in his second year. Despite that Jones had a higher completion percentage than Jackson did in his rookie year and has more yards passing in 7 games than Jackson had in 16. Who else would you like to compare Jones too. ? Perhaps you'd like to remind us that Brady had a better rookie year than Jones.
You're surprised we benched an almost 40 year old quarterback Â
in a lost season for the 6 overall pick? Are you serious? People have completely lost it, even if Jones becomes a complete bust, there is less than 0 reason to play Eli this season. He wasn't bringing us to the playoffs or adding any value as a player whatsoever.
The receivers’ inability to get open has been a recurring problem that is making Jones’ life exceedingly difficult. The Giants desperately miss top receiver Sterling Shepard, who has been sidelined for the past four games with a concussion. There’s no indication when (or if) Shepard will return this season.
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
You never heard of Lamar Jackson??
Lamar Jackson plays for a good team with a conservative offense and is in his second year. Despite that Jones had a higher completion percentage than Jackson did in his rookie year and has more yards passing in 7 games than Jackson had in 16. Who else would you like to compare Jones too. ? Perhaps you'd like to remind us that Brady had a better rookie year than Jones.
Ravens have a much better defense and like you said, this is Jackson’s second year, not first.
All he did last year was hand off, run himself, a few quick passes....then rely on the defense to win the game.
I really wanted Allen and then Minshew as a late round pick this year and one of the top QB's next draft like Fromm (Not Hebert or Tua) That being said.
You have to give the kid a break. Considering the shit show that he has been thrust into a rookie starter with below average o-line, weak coaches and play calling.
Rookies rarely shine, but I will be the first to admit that he has done a pretty decent job. The kid is earning his stripes. He deserves to be given at least a couple of seasons to sink or swim. He very well may turn out to be Tim Couch 2.0 but maybe he won't.
He's outperforming what our HOF quarterback had been doing the last few years. This is without OBJ, or Shep, and with Barkley sidelined most of the year.
With more experience, and a better line, those fumbles will be cut down.
I hated the pick BTW. I wanted us to draft Jackson last year, or play Eli again this year, and end up with a top pick to take a QB next year. But Danny Dimes has impressed and shown signs that he could be a successful QB for the next decade+.
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
You never heard of Lamar Jackson??
Lamar Jackson plays for a good team with a conservative offense and is in his second year. Despite that Jones had a higher completion percentage than Jackson did in his rookie year and has more yards passing in 7 games than Jackson had in 16. Who else would you like to compare Jones too. ? Perhaps you'd like to remind us that Brady had a better rookie year than Jones.
Ravens have a much better defense and like you said, this is Jackson’s second year, not first.
All he did last year was hand off, run himself, a few quick passes....then rely on the defense to win the game.
DJ and Lamar are the same age, by the way. Lamar just has a few more starts than Jones. If you think DJ has performed anywhere near Lamar, you are on crack.
However, I've been extremely pleased with his play as a rookie. And that last fumble wasn't on him at all.
Most of Jones INTS have come from him trying to be aggressive and push the ball downfield. I'll take that over check downs.
It's even simpler than that. We've played a lot of really good DLs through nine games. Our OL can't protect him.
I called it in my game preview this week. He was going to take "a step back" because their DL was going to abuse our OL.
This isn't hard to figure out. Think this through.
This one is the most outrageous by far.
DJ has been the lone bright spot for this franchise so far this year.
Quote:
a big part is the coaching he is receiving. They are putting way to much on his plate. Simplify things, get him under center. Shurmur to me is a good OC when he has a very good HC guiding him. Without that.....we get what we are seeing.
It's even simpler than that. We've played a lot of really good DLs through nine games. Our OL can't protect him.
I called it in my game preview this week. He was going to take "a step back" because their DL was going to abuse our OL.
Yes some good DL's. Don't you think being under center can help offset that? I do. The offensive genius should be able to scheme a running game. All I know is shotgun really limits flexibility for play action. You have a mobile QB. Play action....get him rolled outside, cut the field in half. How about a bootleg with a throwback screen? Maybe two backs? Sitting is shotgun just enables the DL to tee off imo.
I see very little creativity.
No, the shanked chip shot is the only reason they beat Tampa.
Jones is having a very good rookie year for a QB on a bad team.
Shurmur needs to hit this home, or otherwise, put him on the bench.
That's how you get a guy to slide all the time.
Shurmur needs to hit this home, or otherwise, put him on the bench.
That's how you get a guy to slide all the time.
Agreed. Fumbles or not, he can't keep taking those hits. He shouldn't be taking those hits.
We also need to get Shepard back, as he has the best hands on the team and gets the most separation; however, with his concussion issues, it's uncertain whether we will EVER get Shepard back. WR is a huge need in this draft. Of course, so are EDGE, OLs, and LBs. Awesome.
Lamar Jackson MVP Buzz - ( New Window )
You never heard of Lamar Jackson??
You can't look at Jones' body of work and say for sure he is a franchise QB. His ups and downs look similar to Mariota, Winston and many others. Last night he looked bad. People praising his accuracy and decision making need to take another look. The jury is still out. I believe he has a chance to turn a corner. But I don't believe in lying to myself because of homer-ism. This kid might just be a .250 hitter with a bit of pop in a position where we need at least a .300 hitter with 25 hr power to contend. His accuracy and decision-making is flatly inconsistent. Some guys never develop the consistency to be great. Let's hope DJ does.
I'd like to see him running the ball more - 10 or so planned runs a game.
I'd really like to see him and Barkley operating in Greg Roman's offense... Roman is a completely realistic head coaching candidate to pursue this offseason.
I'd like to see him running the ball more - 10 or so planned runs a game.
I'd really like to see him and Barkley operating in Greg Roman's offense... Roman is a completely realistic head coaching candidate to pursue this offseason.
he is inconsistent, often inaccurate and often frazzled. Being able to shine on isolated plays, yea, there are 50 QBs in the NFL who can do that. Fact is.. we don't know what we have yet with DJ. It can still go either way.
He's got to learn to stop fumbling, but right now that's the only huge flaw I see.
I did not know what to expect when he was drafted,but,he has demonstrated the physical attributes and mental demeanor to be a really good QB.
The advanced statistics metrics bare this out.
Jones has been timed close to 20 mph on his runs only behind Lamar Jackson and Deshaun Watson.
He can make all the throws, he is accurate, with a quick strong release. His throws have been timed at 54 mph.
The mistakes he makes are correctable and with a better team around him he can be a franchise QB.
His receivers are quite ordinary and get no separation.
The average separation by the Giants receivers is less than 2 yards. Jones has the highest completion rate in the league on tight window throws. He has the most TDs on tight window throws.This is generally accepted as a predictor of future success.
Jones is in the top (3) in throwing under duress, so it is not surprising that he fumbles and has thrown interceptions. Jones throws 48% completions under duress and over 70% with a clean pocket. He has been sacked 31 times in 8 games.
With an average line and average receivers Jones would be producing on a consistent basis.
Some other notes about Jones, he is tough and willing to get his nose dirty.
He runs effectively and is a willing blocker.
I am not certain why the enmity that some Giant fans have shown Jones. What could they expect from a rookie QB on this team? Just think if the Giants had drafted Haskins, we would still have Eli playing.
The Giants are lucky that they have Daniel Jones he will be a significant reason for the Giants to become a good team.
Mike I know your not serous with this post and are just trying to rekindle the Eli should have gotten this entire year argument,
But when you ve seen what Jones brings to this offense compared to Eli, and start a post like this, you should understand it won’t be take. Seriously
Yeah our WR even when they make plays are doing it in traffic. Often a CB draped over them with a S closing in. That's a recipe for INT especially since DJ doesn't have a rifle arm.
The contrast is Darnold who looks lost on the football field, something over never once saw or thought from Jones. He’s trying to do too much. It’s a problem, but it’s fixable especially if we get some good players blocking for him.
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Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
You never heard of Lamar Jackson??
Quote:
In comment 14664960 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
You never heard of Lamar Jackson??
Lamar Jackson plays for a good team with a conservative offense and is in his second year. Despite that Jones had a higher completion percentage than Jackson did in his rookie year and has more yards passing in 7 games than Jackson had in 16. Who else would you like to compare Jones too. ? Perhaps you'd like to remind us that Brady had a better rookie year than Jones.
Ravens have a much better defense and like you said, this is Jackson’s second year, not first.
All he did last year was hand off, run himself, a few quick passes....then rely on the defense to win the game.
You have to give the kid a break. Considering the shit show that he has been thrust into a rookie starter with below average o-line, weak coaches and play calling.
Rookies rarely shine, but I will be the first to admit that he has done a pretty decent job. The kid is earning his stripes. He deserves to be given at least a couple of seasons to sink or swim. He very well may turn out to be Tim Couch 2.0 but maybe he won't.
With more experience, and a better line, those fumbles will be cut down.
I hated the pick BTW. I wanted us to draft Jackson last year, or play Eli again this year, and end up with a top pick to take a QB next year. But Danny Dimes has impressed and shown signs that he could be a successful QB for the next decade+.
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In comment 14665040 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14664960 Ron from Ninerland said:
Quote:
Which QB from the last two drafts would you rather have ? Jones has looked better than any QB taken in the last 2 drafts, he's looked better than Eli did in his rookie year and he's done it all playing for a shit team. Some of his failures and the offense in general is the direct result of this putrid defense. When a defense can't get off the field, the offense is always playing from behind. That in itself is going to result in high risk plays, sacks and sack/fumbles. Yes, Jones' ball security is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but I'll take his performance against a very good team over what we've seen with Darnold, Baker or Haskins.
You never heard of Lamar Jackson??
Lamar Jackson plays for a good team with a conservative offense and is in his second year. Despite that Jones had a higher completion percentage than Jackson did in his rookie year and has more yards passing in 7 games than Jackson had in 16. Who else would you like to compare Jones too. ? Perhaps you'd like to remind us that Brady had a better rookie year than Jones.
Ravens have a much better defense and like you said, this is Jackson’s second year, not first.
All he did last year was hand off, run himself, a few quick passes....then rely on the defense to win the game.
DJ and Lamar are the same age, by the way. Lamar just has a few more starts than Jones. If you think DJ has performed anywhere near Lamar, you are on crack.