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The Barkley pick

averagejoe : 11/5/2019 10:50 am
When Barkley was taken number two overall the plan was to build our team around him.Last year we were all onboard with the shiny new toy. Barkley had a few big games and established himself as an offensive weapon. His great talent was obvious. This year I expected more carries more yards and more production from him. It hasn't happened . Yes - he is not being utilized correctly but much of the blame falls on him as well. He NEVER squares his shoulders and hits the hole. He hesitates when he gets the ball and loses all momentum. He does not move the chains and has been poor in short yardage situations. His blocking has been non-existent.
Watching Elliot and McCaffery play I am reminded of what I thought we were getting with the number two pick. If he is never going to be the dominant RB Elliot is he was over drafted.
Watch coaching film  
djstat : 11/5/2019 10:53 am : link
Holes are not there
First of all Ellilott  
Chip : 11/5/2019 10:55 am : link
has large holes to run through most of the time. Barkley has to find a crease to run through. I do agree he would be better off squaring it up and going forwad than juking all over the place to find an opening.
if Barkley had the holes Elliot had last night he would run for 300  
Eric on Li : 11/5/2019 10:56 am : link
and I honestly don't think that's an exaggeration. Dallas has 1/3 of their cap invested in their OL with 3 all pros. It's a lot easier said than done but that needs to be the goal here. Not just retreads like Remmers and below average talents like Halapio.
It's not really SB  
JonC : 11/5/2019 11:00 am : link
He's trying too hard at times and doesn't take what's there to be had. But, the reality is the holes aren't there, the talent isn't in front of or around him.
I think after the Cardinals game  
allstarjim : 11/5/2019 11:01 am : link
They drilled into him not to be doing a bunch of dancing and reversing field looking for the homerun, just to take what's there.

I think he's been trying to do that the last two games, but he's fighting his instincts and thinking too much. For me, I wouldn't want to try and take away what makes him special, but that he has to be smarter about it. Nothing wrong with bouncing outside when the hole isn't there, but don't try to run 5 yards backwards in an attempt to reverse the field.

But the other thing is he came back too soon. He isn't 100%. But his 90% is better than 29 or so other starting RBs in the NFL. I really wish we had the bye week this week. But one more week and then he gets the extra week to rest. And hopefully that will be very meaningful for him.
RE: It's not really SB  
Anakim : 11/5/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14664971 JonC said:
Quote:
He's trying too hard at times and doesn't take what's there to be had. But, the reality is the holes aren't there, the talent isn't in front of or around him.


This x a million

Seriously, all he needs is a LITTLE bit of light and he can bust one open. He's not getting ANY holes. Not even a sliver.

Besides, I think he's more hurt than he's letting on
RE: if Barkley had the holes Elliot had last night he would run for 300  
LS : 11/5/2019 11:03 am : link
In comment 14664955 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
and I honestly don't think that's an exaggeration. Dallas has 1/3 of their cap invested in their OL with 3 all pros. It's a lot easier said than done but that needs to be the goal here. Not just retreads like Remmers and below average talents like Halapio.


+1
You can see the anxiety on his face  
JonC : 11/5/2019 11:03 am : link
he's trying too hard, losing and lack of success is eating at the young man. He'll be fine.
Barkley is nothing like Elliot  
arniefez : 11/5/2019 11:05 am : link
behind Elliot's line last night Barkley probably would have had 3 80 yard runs and behind the Giants line Elliot probably would have had twice the yardage.

Barkley is a all or nothing guy. Elliott is a down after down grind it out guy.
RE: You can see the anxiety on his face  
Giants38 : 11/5/2019 11:09 am : link
In comment 14664986 JonC said:
Quote:
he's trying too hard, losing and lack of success is eating at the young man. He'll be fine.


We also do nothing to get him in space, anyway. Our play calling is horrific. On the first screen pass to Barkley, he had a ton of room and gained 65 yards. We simply make no effort to get him in space.
I would not take s RB that low unless  
Vanzetti : 11/5/2019 11:11 am : link
He was the second coming of Jim Brown

Think about the other guys, Giants took that low: LT and Eli

Saquon is s talent to be sure but he also can’t block
And is not great running between the tackles
Perhaps...  
Chris in Philly : 11/5/2019 11:14 am : link
you are familiar with the term "offensive line"...
why do  
AndyMilligan : 11/5/2019 11:14 am : link
people feel like they have to demean Zeke in order to pump up Barkley. Zeke is fucking incredible. If you don't see it I can't help you but you're wrong. Barkley is not twice the player Zeke is. You are talking about a back that led the NFL in rushing his first two seasons and leads in per game rushing since coming into the league. You are dreaming if you think Barkley would run for 300. Is BArkley better? Well athletically he is slightly better. But Zeke might be the better more decisive RB. Time will tell. Zeke runs in a classic style and athletically he is no slouch. He is dynamic, powerful and decisive. He is more decisive than SB and gets himself into less trouble dancing around.
a fun thing about losing  
bluepepper : 11/5/2019 11:18 am : link
is even your best players start to get negative scrutiny. Saquon is fine. Most runners have games like this especially when the OL is not good and the defense is keying on him. We need better OL play, WR who get separation and better QB play (not a knock - he's a rook).



You couldn't have picked a better handle.  
Brown Recluse : 11/5/2019 11:20 am : link
Fits your posts perfectly.
RE: You couldn't have picked a better handle.  
averagejoe : 11/5/2019 11:29 am : link
In comment 14665052 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Fits your posts perfectly.


Thanks for the blistering insights
i didn't like picking a RB so high  
haper : 11/5/2019 11:32 am : link
imo, RBs are replaceable commodities for the most part especially in today's league. Invest in the OL and you can win w good but not great RBs like Ahmad Bradshaw, Otis Anderson and Brandon Jacobs. This agrument is supported by how little productivity the Giants are getting from a talent like Barkley behind this OL.

On a side note, I felt the same way when the Giants selected Beckham. At the time I preferred a stud LT who stayed on the team for 10 years and was rarely injured than a diva WR (at this point Beckham hadn't displayed his weird side). I had to eat my words the first few years while OBJ played well, but now it seems I was right.
So he goes from Rookie of the Year to not deserving to be the #2  
Anakim : 11/5/2019 11:34 am : link
pick. What a world...
He’s still hurt a bit and  
5BowlsSoon : 11/5/2019 11:36 am : link
His OL needs improvement. Oh, and less runs up the middle would be nice too.
The Positional Value BS  
Andy340350 : 11/5/2019 11:37 am : link
I was fine with the selection of Barkley, then and now. And as we look back at that draft, what sticks out to me is the fallacy of "positional value." It drove lots of teams to use high draft position to pick QBs who, at least so far, are struggling at best. (I know it's early, and I am not counting Lamar Jackson, who was selected at the bottom of Round 1). And it drove teams to bypass the guy who is now, and when the books are closed is likely to be recognized as, the best player in that draft, Quinton Nelson. When you look at the Colts, and how they are thriving even without Andrew Luck, how can you not appreciate the contribution Nelson has made? Luck and a mediocre OL is less successful than his backup and a dominant OL. And yes, one guy can make a difference on the O Line. I mean do you think the Jets would like to trade Darnold for Nelson? Would the Colts even dream of accepting such a deal? Best Player Available shouldn't come with a discount.
RE: RE: You couldn't have picked a better handle.  
Brown Recluse : 11/5/2019 11:49 am : link
In comment 14665081 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 14665052 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


Fits your posts perfectly.



Thanks for the blistering insights


This thread doesn't require any blistering insights. Maybe form a complete thought for yourself in the future instead of synapse-firing all over the place and expecting everyone else to point you in the direction of common sense.
RE: Barkley is nothing like Elliot  
V.I.G. : 11/5/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14665000 arniefez said:
Quote:
behind Elliot's line last night Barkley probably would have had 3 80 yard runs and behind the Giants line Elliot probably would have had twice the yardage.

Barkley is a all or nothing guy. Elliott is a down after down grind it out guy.


this^

elliott is closer to emmitt and gore
barkley comp is sanders

RE: i didn't like picking a RB so high  
V.I.G. : 11/5/2019 11:57 am : link
In comment 14665094 haper said:
Quote:
imo, RBs are replaceable commodities for the most part especially in today's league. Invest in the OL and you can win w good but not great RBs like Ahmad Bradshaw, Otis Anderson and Brandon Jacobs. This agrument is supported by how little productivity the Giants are getting from a talent like Barkley behind this OL.

On a side note, I felt the same way when the Giants selected Beckham. At the time I preferred a stud LT who stayed on the team for 10 years and was rarely injured than a diva WR (at this point Beckham hadn't displayed his weird side). I had to eat my words the first few years while OBJ played well, but now it seems I was right.
good post
RE: why do  
Zeke's Alibi : 11/5/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14665033 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
people feel like they have to demean Zeke in order to pump up Barkley. Zeke is fucking incredible. If you don't see it I can't help you but you're wrong. Barkley is not twice the player Zeke is. You are talking about a back that led the NFL in rushing his first two seasons and leads in per game rushing since coming into the league. You are dreaming if you think Barkley would run for 300. Is BArkley better? Well athletically he is slightly better. But Zeke might be the better more decisive RB. Time will tell. Zeke runs in a classic style and athletically he is no slouch. He is dynamic, powerful and decisive. He is more decisive than SB and gets himself into less trouble dancing around.


Oh please Zeke is "decisive" because they part the red sea for him. SB dances around because teams get penetration against us constantly.
RE: RE: why do  
AndyMilligan : 11/5/2019 12:01 pm : link
In comment 14665228 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 14665033 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


people feel like they have to demean Zeke in order to pump up Barkley. Zeke is fucking incredible. If you don't see it I can't help you but you're wrong. Barkley is not twice the player Zeke is. You are talking about a back that led the NFL in rushing his first two seasons and leads in per game rushing since coming into the league. You are dreaming if you think Barkley would run for 300. Is BArkley better? Well athletically he is slightly better. But Zeke might be the better more decisive RB. Time will tell. Zeke runs in a classic style and athletically he is no slouch. He is dynamic, powerful and decisive. He is more decisive than SB and gets himself into less trouble dancing around.



Oh please Zeke is "decisive" because they part the red sea for him. SB dances around because teams get penetration against us constantly.

yea.. ok Zeke isn't good because he doesn't play for our team. naked homer-ism.. next..
RE: RE: RE: You couldn't have picked a better handle.  
averagejoe : 11/5/2019 12:01 pm : link
In comment 14665164 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
In comment 14665081 averagejoe said:


Quote:


In comment 14665052 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


Fits your posts perfectly.



Thanks for the blistering insights



This thread doesn't require any blistering insights. Maybe form a complete thought for yourself in the future instead of synapse-firing all over the place and expecting everyone else to point you in the direction of common sense.


Here's a complete thought - you are a self important jackass that feels compelled to critique posters rather than participate in the discussion at hand.
So.... What does it say about picking a RB at #2  
.McL. : 11/5/2019 12:49 pm : link
When it still requires a decent OL for him to flourish?
It always has been about the OL.
If the OL can open holes, an average runner will gain yards, perhaps not as many explosive plays, but he will gain yards and thats all you really need from the running game. If the OL can pass block, the explosive plays come from the passing game. The OL is the engine that makes the offense go. It hasn't been a RB for 30 years.

I remember posters thinking they were so football savvy, talking about how SB will cause the defenses to move LBs and Safeties around and how that will "open up the offense"?

I have been shouting this forever....

You want to move LBs and safeties around build a better OL, and let them move the LBs and safeties. It works better and more consistently that way!
Barkley was the right pick...  
x meadowlander : 11/5/2019 12:52 pm : link
...can trade him for another #1 TOMORROW if the Giants really feel he wasn't worth it.

I was hoping he'd have a breakout year so maybe the Giants could sucker the Browns or some other sad sack into a Herschel Walker deal.
RE: Barkley was the right pick...  
AndyMilligan : 11/5/2019 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14665400 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...can trade him for another #1 TOMORROW if the Giants really feel he wasn't worth it.

I was hoping he'd have a breakout year so maybe the Giants could sucker the Browns or some other sad sack into a Herschel Walker deal.


no. it was the wrong pick. you will never get a top-5 pick for Barkley, never mind the #2 pick. Yes you might be able to get a pick in the #20 to #30 range, which is still a first.
I still think taking a RB at 2 when you have  
Section331 : 11/5/2019 1:13 pm : link
desperate needs everywhere is a mistake, but give Saquon the Dallas OL and tell me how you think he would do? I'm not demeaning Zeke at all, he's terrific, but he'd suck behind this line too.
this narrative that Q Nelson is the best player in that draft  
allstarjim : 11/5/2019 2:19 pm : link
Is questionable. But even if I accept that presence, he plays LG. The impact of 1 OL doesn't in and of itself translate to wins.

Nelson's addition would have meant very, very little if the Colts didn't ALSO draft Braden Smith (their starting RT) in the 2nd round of that same draft, if they didn't draft Ryan Kelly in 2016, and if they didn't have Anthony Castonzo doing a great job at LT.

Further, other than the QB, the greatest player that has contributed to their turnaround directly impacting the wins and losses on that team was Darius Leonard.

Nelson is a great player, but he's one of five OL that all have to be good for it to be meaningful, because an OL is only as good as your weakest link.

Does that mean the Giants should continue to invest a lot of resources into fixing this line? Yes. I've said in the past that they should be using at least 1 draft pick on OL every single season, and dare I say I would do it within the first 4 rounds every single year. You NEVER stop building the OL.

In terms of the Colts, they are good because in GENERAL, they've drafted very well across many positions, with Nelson being one of many good picks in recent drafts.
Anyway you look at it  
Marty866b : 11/5/2019 2:27 pm : link
Barkley's best years, and career will be wasted on terrible, losing football teams. With Barkley and Darnold on the board, we should have traded down, accumulate a bunch of picks, and start to rebuild out team. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't find a trade partner with Barkley and Darnold available.
Also, I'm aware that Leonard has been injured this season  
allstarjim : 11/5/2019 2:27 pm : link
But the Colts are 13-8 with him on the field since he's been drafted, and 2-2 with him not on the field. Small samples, I know, but he has certainly made an immense difference to that team.
RE: RE: RE: why do  
PhiPsi125 : 11/5/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14665232 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14665228 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


In comment 14665033 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


people feel like they have to demean Zeke in order to pump up Barkley. Zeke is fucking incredible. If you don't see it I can't help you but you're wrong. Barkley is not twice the player Zeke is. You are talking about a back that led the NFL in rushing his first two seasons and leads in per game rushing since coming into the league. You are dreaming if you think Barkley would run for 300. Is BArkley better? Well athletically he is slightly better. But Zeke might be the better more decisive RB. Time will tell. Zeke runs in a classic style and athletically he is no slouch. He is dynamic, powerful and decisive. He is more decisive than SB and gets himself into less trouble dancing around.



Oh please Zeke is "decisive" because they part the red sea for him. SB dances around because teams get penetration against us constantly.


yea.. ok Zeke isn't good because he doesn't play for our team. naked homer-ism.. next..


Who ever said that Zeke isn’t good? I think it’s completely reasonable to admit that Zeke is really good while ALSO admitting that he gets a TON of help from his OL. Good for him. But it also makes what Barkley did last year all the more impressive. Put Zeke behind the Giants OL and he will look a lot less impressive. That’s a pretty safe bet.

The anti-Barkley hot takes are fascinating. And, yeah, this place absolutely sucks when the Giants are losing.
RE: Anyway you look at it  
allstarjim : 11/5/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14665625 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Barkley's best years, and career will be wasted on terrible, losing football teams. With Barkley and Darnold on the board, we should have traded down, accumulate a bunch of picks, and start to rebuild out team. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't find a trade partner with Barkley and Darnold available.


There's no way you can possibly know that, Marty. Guys like Barkley can easily play 10 seasons or more. Hell, Gore is playing his 15th season. Yeah, he's a shadow of his former self, but Gore had one of his absolute best seasons at 29 years old, and was very good for several seasons after that. Barkley has one of the best and strongest, most athletic NFL bodies ever to come into the NFL, and he takes impeccable care of his body. If you are a betting man, bet on Barkley to be around for awhile.

The great ones last longer than just 5 or 6 years most of the time.

And this thing can get turned around next year, but I think it will be turned around at the latest in the 2021 season. Barkley will still be here, and he will only be 24 years old at that time with a lot of football ahead of him.
RE: this narrative that Q Nelson is the best player in that draft  
AndyMilligan : 11/5/2019 3:57 pm : link
In comment 14665616 allstarjim said:
Quote:
Is questionable. But even if I accept that presence, he plays LG. The impact of 1 OL doesn't in and of itself translate to wins.

Nelson's addition would have meant very, very little if the Colts didn't ALSO draft Braden Smith (their starting RT) in the 2nd round of that same draft, if they didn't draft Ryan Kelly in 2016, and if they didn't have Anthony Castonzo doing a great job at LT.

Further, other than the QB, the greatest player that has contributed to their turnaround directly impacting the wins and losses on that team was Darius Leonard.

Nelson is a great player, but he's one of five OL that all have to be good for it to be meaningful, because an OL is only as good as your weakest link.

Does that mean the Giants should continue to invest a lot of resources into fixing this line? Yes. I've said in the past that they should be using at least 1 draft pick on OL every single season, and dare I say I would do it within the first 4 rounds every single year. You NEVER stop building the OL.

In terms of the Colts, they are good because in GENERAL, they've drafted very well across many positions, with Nelson being one of many good picks in recent drafts.


the best player from that draft is Lamar Jackson -- full stop.
allstarjim  
Marty866b : 11/5/2019 3:58 pm : link
Yes, there are a handful of backs who play longer but for the majority, their best years are when they are younger and they fizzle out by their late 20's. I am not even certain that Barkley will get a second contract from the Giants. I see a tag for a year and then evaluate him and that would be after his 6th season. Running back at #2 on a bad team is terrible value.
RE: allstarjim  
AndyMilligan : 11/5/2019 4:02 pm : link
In comment 14665812 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Yes, there are a handful of backs who play longer but for the majority, their best years are when they are younger and they fizzle out by their late 20's. I am not even certain that Barkley will get a second contract from the Giants. I see a tag for a year and then evaluate him and that would be after his 6th season. Running back at #2 on a bad team is terrible value.


it's not just terrible value. Most times a team can get equal or better production from two journeymen backs - Breida/Coleman, White/Burkhead, Hyde/Johnson, etc etc there is no decided advantage overall from having an elite talent at RB.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You couldn't have picked a better handle.  
Brown Recluse : 11/5/2019 4:19 pm : link
In comment 14665233 averagejoe said:
Quote:
In comment 14665164 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


In comment 14665081 averagejoe said:


Quote:


In comment 14665052 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


Fits your posts perfectly.



Thanks for the blistering insights



This thread doesn't require any blistering insights. Maybe form a complete thought for yourself in the future instead of synapse-firing all over the place and expecting everyone else to point you in the direction of common sense.



Here's a complete thought - you are a self important jackass that feels compelled to critique posters rather than participate in the discussion at hand.


Participate in what? How many times has this topic been beaten to death? In what ways has this thread added any value whatsoever to the topic that the other five thousand haven't? The answer is zero. Its just another rehashed topic triggered purely by emotion. Par for the course around here lately


RE: i didn't like picking a RB so high  
Bill L : 11/5/2019 4:25 pm : link
In comment 14665094 haper said:
Quote:
imo, RBs are replaceable commodities for the most part especially in today's league. Invest in the OL and you can win w good but not great RBs like Ahmad Bradshaw, Otis Anderson and Brandon Jacobs. This agrument is supported by how little productivity the Giants are getting from a talent like Barkley behind this OL.
....


Depending on whether or not you believe wikipedia, Ottis Anderson was the 8th overall pick when drafted.
RE: Barkley was the right pick...  
V.I.G. : 11/5/2019 4:27 pm : link
In comment 14665400 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
...can trade him for another #1 TOMORROW if the Giants really feel he wasn't worth it.

I was hoping he'd have a breakout year so maybe the Giants could sucker the Browns or some other sad sack into a Herschel Walker deal.

could we trade him for a #2 overall? not a fukn chance
RE: Anyway you look at it  
V.I.G. : 11/5/2019 4:29 pm : link
In comment 14665625 Marty866b said:
Quote:
Barkley's best years, and career will be wasted on terrible, losing football teams. With Barkley and Darnold on the board, we should have traded down, accumulate a bunch of picks, and start to rebuild out team. I find it hard to believe that we couldn't find a trade partner with Barkley and Darnold available.

+1
RE: RE: allstarjim  
Bill L : 11/5/2019 4:31 pm : link
In comment 14665819 AndyMilligan said:
Quote:
In comment 14665812 Marty866b said:


Quote:


Yes, there are a handful of backs who play longer but for the majority, their best years are when they are younger and they fizzle out by their late 20's. I am not even certain that Barkley will get a second contract from the Giants. I see a tag for a year and then evaluate him and that would be after his 6th season. Running back at #2 on a bad team is terrible value.



it's not just terrible value. Most times a team can get equal or better production from two journeymen backs - Breida/Coleman, White/Burkhead, Hyde/Johnson, etc etc there is no decided advantage overall from having an elite talent at RB.


*none* of those guys are taking that screen pass last night like Barkley did. None of those guys are giving us his long runs. Yeah, with a shitty line maybe they will give equivalent aggregate production on the non-long runs. With teh Cowboys line or even an nfl quality one, your statement has no foundation at all.
While there is likely...  
bw in dc : 11/5/2019 4:59 pm : link
some lingering health issues for Barkley, what's also on display here is that team's have likely caught onto to SB's tendencies, and the offense in general, and have made adjustments to neutralize him.

Plus, Dallas is a very solid D and well coached. They get paid, too, and deserve credit...

Further, Jones is still a rookie, and leveling off some, so teams are essentially willing to live with Jones beating them over SB.

A lot of misperception re: Barkley, his #'s aren't much diff this year  
Eric on Li : 11/5/2019 5:18 pm : link
Here they are from a post on a different thread (I did quick math so they may be off by a little bit):

In comment 14664844 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
2018 - 126 yards per game, 6.0 yards per touch, 5.0 ypc, 22 touches per game
2019 - 105 total yards per game, 5.6 yards per touch, 4.6 ypc, 20 touches per game


Also note that the numbers in the post above skew down from the partial game played against Tampa (not to mention yesterday's game which happened to be Barkley's worst as a pro). So Barkley being "worse" than last year is basically a 1 game phenomenon (last night).

The offensive number that's glaringly different from last year is PPG - this year they are only averaging 19 ppg when last year they averaged 23 ppg (and even more than that at the end of the year). So there has been big time regression year over year in overall offensive effectiveness. Part of that may be the increased turnovers with a rookie QB, and injuries, and losing beckham, but that's the main thing that's different and I find it hard to blame that regression on Saquon (other than obviously the games he missed due to injury). In fact it's pretty amazing his numbers are so close to last year given the overall offensive struggles. Over a full year he'd be on pace for 1700 total yards and 75 receptions.

Shurmur's offense has stalled - plain and simple. Perhaps he deserves some credit for Jones looking good for a rookie, but he has failed at finding creative ways to involve Engram and Barkley when the defenses key on them. And the OL seems to have regressed too, though that could just be Jones holding the ball to go downfield more.
Put Barkley behind the cowturd line and see if you make the  
SterlingArcher : 11/5/2019 5:19 pm : link
same comment.
RE: RE: RE: allstarjim  
AndyMilligan : 11/5/2019 6:00 pm : link
In comment 14665867 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14665819 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


In comment 14665812 Marty866b said:


Quote:


Yes, there are a handful of backs who play longer but for the majority, their best years are when they are younger and they fizzle out by their late 20's. I am not even certain that Barkley will get a second contract from the Giants. I see a tag for a year and then evaluate him and that would be after his 6th season. Running back at #2 on a bad team is terrible value.



it's not just terrible value. Most times a team can get equal or better production from two journeymen backs - Breida/Coleman, White/Burkhead, Hyde/Johnson, etc etc there is no decided advantage overall from having an elite talent at RB.



*none* of those guys are taking that screen pass last night like Barkley did. None of those guys are giving us his long runs. Yeah, with a shitty line maybe they will give equivalent aggregate production on the non-long runs. With teh Cowboys line or even an nfl quality one, your statement has no foundation at all.


RB committees perform as well or better than a single elite bell cow back - period - irrespective of the surrounding players including the line. Look it up yourself. It's not a secret.
So now we make excuses for Barkley?  
Junior22 : 11/5/2019 6:03 pm : link
Last year the oline was brutal and he still played great but now you are seeing the warts he has coming out of college. To much dancing and cannot run through gang tackles like Elliott does. Yea zeke had some big holes but other times he wore the defense himself by dragging 2 or 3 defenders for extra yards. Barkley dances to much and that won't fly in the league year in and year out
RE: RE: RE: allstarjim  
.McL. : 11/5/2019 6:04 pm : link
In comment 14665867 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 14665819 AndyMilligan said:


Quote:


In comment 14665812 Marty866b said:


Quote:


Yes, there are a handful of backs who play longer but for the majority, their best years are when they are younger and they fizzle out by their late 20's. I am not even certain that Barkley will get a second contract from the Giants. I see a tag for a year and then evaluate him and that would be after his 6th season. Running back at #2 on a bad team is terrible value.



it's not just terrible value. Most times a team can get equal or better production from two journeymen backs - Breida/Coleman, White/Burkhead, Hyde/Johnson, etc etc there is no decided advantage overall from having an elite talent at RB.



*none* of those guys are taking that screen pass last night like Barkley did. None of those guys are giving us his long runs. Yeah, with a shitty line maybe they will give equivalent aggregate production on the non-long runs. With teh Cowboys line or even an nfl quality one, your statement has no foundation at all.

THe point you are missing Bill is that 1 highlight reel play mixed in with 19 bad ones means you are going to have a bad offense. It doesn't matter if a lesser RB won't get as many yards on that screen pass. What matters is overall offensive production. That comes from having a good OL, QB and play designs. Other positions help but not nearly as much.
The difference between this year and last  
David B. : 11/5/2019 6:27 pm : link
Is that teams are daring a rookie QB to beat them. Say what you will about Eli at his current age, teams still respected his ability to beat them if they stacked the box against Barkley.
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