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What do you HONESTLY think happens come season's end?

SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/5/2019 11:48 am
Let's say we finish 4-12, 5-11. Right now, that's probably realistic considering we still got the Jets, Fins, & Skins. And, for argument's sake, let's say we spring an upset over the Bears to get that 5th.

So that's back to back 5-11 seasons. Sadly, the owner can't be fired so Johnny Boy is going nowhere. Gettleman...eh. He's done some good things, but his signings have been atrocious & the thought of him with tons of $ to spend this offseason gives me a great deal of pause. I think we all agree that Shurmur is a complete boob who should be given a one way ticket out of town.

But what I totally expect to happen is that Bettcher, who completely sucks, to be given the axe & other minor staff changes, but that DG & Shurmur to be given another year. Now, knowing that they're on their last leash, they make completely near sighted moves that'll come to bite us in the ass a year or two down the road.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that Go Terps was right: we gotta clean house, lest these characters even put us further in the hole trying to save their own asses.

But I don't expect that. Again, I'll be shocked if Shurmur isn't our HC next September. And I'll be shocked if we're not in the same position come Election Day 2020. I asked this ? in the game thread last night & I still don't have a good answer: How is this team any better on 11/5/19 than it was on 11/5/18? Is it even worse?

Good times all around.
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RE: I'd be surprised if they fire Shurmur, but there's a small hope  
BillKo : 11/5/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14665312 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's not impossible that he says or does something that gets him fired. He seems to be losing his composure more and more, which is ironic considering Gettleman's brilliant "This is an adult" analysis.

I can't underline enough that Gettleman is as much of a problem as Shurmur.


I don't know.....DG isn't calling those red zone sequences......
RE: I'd be surprised if they fire Shurmur, but there's a small hope  
Danny Kanell : 11/5/2019 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14665312 Go Terps said:
Quote:
It's not impossible that he says or does something that gets him fired. He seems to be losing his composure more and more, which is ironic considering Gettleman's brilliant "This is an adult" analysis.

I can't underline enough that Gettleman is as much of a problem as Shurmur.


I have to be honest, I have been somewhat of a Gettleman (for lack of a better word) supporter this year due to the last 2 drafts. A thread was started I think last night comparing the Giants roster to the Cowboys. Jesus Christ has he done a terrible overall job.
I expect for all of them to be back.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/5/2019 12:31 pm : link
But I would like to see the entire coaching staff and Gettleman gone. You can make an argument that outside of Jones, this team is worse off than they were last season.
I think  
Amtoft : 11/5/2019 12:31 pm : link
Sheppard back will make a big difference. Have we even played a game with Sheppard, Tate, Engram, and Barkley all on the field at one time this year? I am betting 6 wins still 4-3 finish. We always play better late in the year.
I think finishing better is a big concern..  
Sean : 11/5/2019 12:34 pm : link
Look at last year - did anyone think 4 more wins at 1-7? Nobody did.

With games against the Jets, Dolphins & Skins. This team may finish 3-4 and go 5-11 & we’ll hear “arrow is pointing up” - this is my biggest fear. Before you say there are no more wins on the schedule, it happened last year.
Rinse and  
.McL. : 11/5/2019 12:53 pm : link
repeat...

Sadly.
Shurmur will get fired  
Vanzetti : 11/5/2019 12:54 pm : link
Mara always has a scape goat. Gilbride was sufficient because TC won two Super Bowls.

Betcher is not a big enough scale goat for the last two seadons
You guys do realize  
V.I.G. : 11/5/2019 12:56 pm : link
that if we fire one of both coordinators but keep Shurmur and DG, the poorer quality of coordinators that would be interested in the position with a HC on the hot seat?
so many good comments here  
giantsFC : 11/5/2019 1:22 pm : link
Due to the fact Jones was drafted, both Mr. Hog. M. Ollies and Captain .300 Winning% will be back. Which, could be great bc they both get fired in 2 years so we owners can hire the next bad choice.

I also think Betcher is gone this year as scapegoat excuse phase 1. But its def WAY too late to change the entire defensive scheme back to a 4-3. So much useless time and assets wasted on 3-4 D-Lineman the past two years its scary.
Everything will depend on jets game  
Danny Dimes : 11/5/2019 1:39 pm : link
If they can win vs Jets it will be enough to come back next year
RE: cut and paste what go terps said  
jcn56 : 11/5/2019 1:45 pm : link
In comment 14665213 ron mexico said:
Quote:
DC gets fired this offseason
HC gets fired next off season
gettleman "retires" in three years and Abrams takes over


Maggie Gray on the radio today called the rebuild a shell game, and she couldn't be more right. Unfortunately, I see exactly what you're predicting as happening, and the win totals will stay right where they are.
Shurmur will survive  
rocco8112 : 11/5/2019 2:13 pm : link
There is not a snowball's chance in hell Gettlemen is fired. That I am certain of.

The DC will be the scapegoat, he is gone, which solves nothing in that this is not a tem fighting hard that is blowing leads late. This is a garbage team that can not bang for four quarters. Endless mental error, can't run the ball, can't stop the run, pace the league in big plays given up, poor offensive efficiency, turnover prone just a sorry group that is firmly planted on the ass end of the NFL.

To me this falls on the head man. He is not the guy. He lost with Cleveland and is losing now. People are watching this team and see improvement?

He will be back in my mind unless the team loses out. They should promote the special teams coach.
Nothing  
The_Boss : 11/5/2019 3:06 pm : link
And there in lies the problem.
Gettleman and Shurmer haven't earned the right to be back if the team is, in all liklihood, worse at the conclusion of 2019 as it was when they walked through the door.
RE: RE: Chris  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/5/2019 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14665255 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14665219 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I don't think we will win all three of those games.



I don't either. I think we'll be lucky to win two more games, and there is the real possibility we may not win any.


IMO if they lose all 3 vs the Jets, Phins and Skins, then Shurmur will be out.
Anyone remember like 14 months ago  
Leg of Theismann : 11/5/2019 3:22 pm : link
when we thought we weren't going to be able to keep Bettcher for long and he was going to be snatched up for a HC opportunity likely after his first season here? That was fun.
The real concern is that if DG comes back next year  
Mike from Ohio : 11/5/2019 3:24 pm : link
that he has a ton of cap room, but needs immediate results. That will lead to short term decision making rather than trying to build the roster smartly. We are likely to see lots of splash signings with the idea of winning games next year at all costs.

Mara needs to decide if DG goes this year, or gives him a vote of confidence that allows DG to make decisions long term. But I think what Mara will actually do is his usual “this is unacceptable” but then do nothing other than for e a coordinator out. That will lead to more bandaid signings and a longer string of losing seasons.
RE: RE: RE: Chris  
Mad Mike : 11/5/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14665733 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
IMO if they lose all 3 vs the Jets, Phins and Skins, then Shurmur will be out.

I think that's probably what it takes. Maybe even losing 2 of those. Short of that, some assistants get let go but the current regime stays largely intact.
RE: RE: cut and paste what go terps said  
Leg of Theismann : 11/5/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14665545 jcn56 said:
Quote:
In comment 14665213 ron mexico said:


Quote:


DC gets fired this offseason
HC gets fired next off season
gettleman "retires" in three years and Abrams takes over




Maggie Gray on the radio today called the rebuild a shell game, and she couldn't be more right. Unfortunately, I see exactly what you're predicting as happening, and the win totals will stay right where they are.


And when you have highly-respected posters on this board saying they think the rebuild is actually going to take more like "4 or 5 years" then you know there is a literal shell game going on and we're all fooled by it. You can't take 4 or 5 years to rebuild in the NFL because by then your original rookie crop is already coming due for contracts/free-agency and you're experiencing turnover. You need to get good and stay good about 2-3 years into a rebuild otherwise your toast and your team is just a revolving door of JAGs, has-beens, and clowns.
you're*  
Leg of Theismann : 11/5/2019 3:26 pm : link
toast.
I think Shurmur stays  
joeinpa : 11/5/2019 3:30 pm : link
Bettcher goes. We ve seen that before right.
RE: cut and paste what go terps said  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/5/2019 3:36 pm : link
In comment 14665213 ron mexico said:
Quote:
DC gets fired this offseason
HC gets fired next off season
gettleman "retires" in three years and Abrams takes over

The day Abrams takes over as GM is the day I'm done with this team for good. He can't even manage to negotiate a contract without the same boilerplate guarantees for a scrub like Tanney that top contact like Eli's gets. He fucking sucks - I'm tired of tiptoeing around it.
RE: You guys do realize  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/5/2019 3:38 pm : link
In comment 14665417 V.I.G. said:
Quote:
that if we fire one of both coordinators but keep Shurmur and DG, the poorer quality of coordinators that would be interested in the position with a HC on the hot seat?

Like an unproven OC and a retread DC who had already set the NFL record for the worst defense of all time?

Yeah, I think we can manage to brace ourselves for that outcome.
RE: I think Shurmur stays  
Blue21 : 11/5/2019 3:39 pm : link
In comment 14665754 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Bettcher goes. We ve seen that before right.


I agree with this. Maybe the Oline coach too. Everyone else stays. Remember when a lot of people on BBI were afraid Bettcher would only be here a year then get gobbled up by some team to be their head coach. We should be so lucky.
Wish that Steve Tisch would be a modern day Tim Mara  
Steve in ATL : 11/5/2019 3:40 pm : link
and fight John Mara to get him out of football and coaching staff decisions.
I dont think a damn thing happens  
nygiants16 : 11/5/2019 3:41 pm : link
Shurmur will get another year
Oh and another thing on Bettcher. We brought him all his old  
Blue21 : 11/5/2019 3:41 pm : link
toys and some new ones he wanted to "play with" and he can't make them work. Sorry time for a new coach.
RE: I wonder  
Del Shofner : 11/5/2019 3:41 pm : link
In comment 14665294 GiantEgo said:
Quote:
If at some point the Tisch side starts to revolt. All. this losing has to hurting them financially.


I've been wondering about this too. Don't they own 50%? It's not a majority, and Mara may have some kind of agreement that he'll stay involved, but business is business. Leave aside short term financial matters - long-term it can't help the value of the franchise to suck every year. If I were a 50% owner I'd want the other guy to get out of the way.
RE: I dont think a damn thing happens  
Sean : 11/5/2019 6:38 pm : link
In comment 14665782 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
Shurmur will get another year


History does not suggest this.
Here is a scenario I can envision:  
Sean : 11/5/2019 6:40 pm : link
1. After the season Gettleman retires and takes a lesser role within the organization. He’s had health issues & he has left a legacy now with Jones.

2. Kevin Abrams is promoted to GM.

3. Pat Shurmur is fired and replaced with Matt Rhule. Rhule will be comfortable with the structure as he’s been in the building before & will get a chance to build a program.
I think barring a miracle Shumur is toast  
Eric on Li : 11/5/2019 6:52 pm : link
Gettleman knows his head is on deck in the chopping block after Shurmur, and I can't conceive that he's going to hedge his future on Shurmur. A disastrous year 3 and they are both gone, no questions. So selfishly he'd be best served finding someone who can come in and show some progress.

I also think (or maybe hope) the Maras have recognized the error of their ways changing assistants with Coughlin and thinking that would solve structural issues with the organization. Yes it worked when they made him can Hufnagl/Tim Lewis, but that's because Coughlin was more than salvageable - he had a track record of winning elsewhere and had some success in his first few years here. Shurmur appears unsalvageable and has no track record of success as a head coach anywhere.

They need a coach who is a leader and knows how to win who can change the culture. When they moved on from Coughlin, Reese was not that guy and he couldn't find that guy. Mcadoo was not that guy. And Gettleman failed in his hiring of Shurmur who looks just as bad as the rest. There aren't many of those guys out there but they desperately need to find one.
Eric..  
Sean : 11/5/2019 7:05 pm : link
There is no shot the assistant coaches change with Shurmur remaining. None. Coughlin had a resume, Shurmur doesn’t.
RE: Eric..  
Eric on Li : 11/5/2019 7:11 pm : link
In comment 14666055 Sean said:
Quote:
There is no shot the assistant coaches change with Shurmur remaining. None. Coughlin had a resume, Shurmur doesn’t.


I hope not and I'm inclined to agree, but that's what the majority of the predictions are on this thread. I think this group either goes on a miracle run and finishes on a big win streak or they are gone. So in other words I think they are gone (the coaching staff not DG).
That 5 year contract. What were they thinking.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/5/2019 7:11 pm : link
For me, I would be surprised if Shurmur is fired. It's just the team DNA to not rush to judgements. The McAdoo season had expectations. This team doesnt. And they will factor in how changing coaches can negatively affect a QBs development.

Stability is what this franchise is comfortable with and wants. I think they shuffle coordinators or make him give up playcalling.
RE: That 5 year contract. What were they thinking.  
Sean : 11/5/2019 7:14 pm : link
In comment 14666073 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
For me, I would be surprised if Shurmur is fired. It's just the team DNA to not rush to judgements. The McAdoo season had expectations. This team doesnt. And they will factor in how changing coaches can negatively affect a QBs development.

Stability is what this franchise is comfortable with and wants. I think they shuffle coordinators or make him give up playcalling.


Not rush to judgments? Say that to Dan Reeves & Ben McAdoo. I don’t get that narrative. Fassel was promptly fired after his first bad year.

Shurmur is 7-18 here. I highly doubt he gets another year. He’s awful.
From another thread, one of our resident asshats  
Diver_Down : 11/5/2019 7:37 pm : link
commented
I hope Hal Hunter  
uther99 : 11/5/2019 7:43 pm : link
is gone
RE: From another thread, one of our resident asshats  
micky : 11/5/2019 8:08 pm : link
In comment 14666100 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
commented


Rinse, wash, repeat. Yadda yadda yadda
I think  
Les in TO : 11/5/2019 8:48 pm : link
Shurmur and his staff all get fired. Gettleman will stay but the wild card is his health. We’ll spend a lot on big name defensive free agents in the offseason. Mara will try to lure a big name like a Harbaugh Saban Shaw or Cowher to appease the mob. Or maybe an outside the box choice like Peyton Manning.
Eli gets extended as an apology for being benched in 2017  
Default : 11/5/2019 8:55 pm : link
and finally has his "prove all the doubters wrong" come back tour like so many have been predicting for years...
after the Jet's game  
malslayer : 11/6/2019 7:12 pm : link
If the giants come out flat and Darnold lights up the Giants secondary with missed assignments, tackles, etc.

If Jones is on his back, throws interceptions, fumbles the ball away, and Barkley gets stoned the whole game.

God forbid if we have a serious injury to one of our "foundational players".

And after the game the press conference is riddled with "we were in the right position, we just have to execute better, make a play, make a tackle, etc."

I think its possible that Shurmur buys time by giving up playcalling.

He was hired with the mindset that he is a QB whisperer. He failed with Eli. DJ has the tools, but Shurmur bears the responsibility to gameplan and harness it. Not answer the question with "hey I',m trying to feature Barkley What else do you want me to do. They have to block and he has to run. Shrug."

End of season Shurmur is fired due to no offensive progress with DJ, in fact maybe even setting him back.

GM doesn't hire the coach. Mara has seen enough.

if they beat the Jets  
BigBlueCane : 11/6/2019 8:08 pm : link
I can see changes being limited to the assistant coaches. They lose to the Jets and everyone except Gettleman goes. And I think Dave will call Ernie and ask for his advice.
The better question might be  
djm : 11/6/2019 8:29 pm : link
What’s going to happen the rest of the season. 3-13? 4-12? Things could get interesting.

...  
christian : 11/6/2019 8:57 pm : link
At this point you can basically just pencil in the Giants will make the right decision a year late. One more year of Shurmur, and Gettledogman will "retire" after two.
they made the right decision on mcadoo on time  
Eric on Li : 11/6/2019 9:18 pm : link
hopefully they do so again with Shurmur.
I think he will  
Rick5 : 11/6/2019 9:56 pm : link
be back. It probably doesn't matter anyway. After the last two coaching selections, I have no confidence that they would pick anyone better.
The Giants will NOT fire Shurmur...  
EricJ : 11/6/2019 10:11 pm : link
but if they did, who do you want for our next head coach? It needs to be someone who is available.
RE: The Giants will NOT fire Shurmur...  
Sean : 11/6/2019 10:29 pm : link
In comment 14667709 EricJ said:
Quote:
but if they did, who do you want for our next head coach? It needs to be someone who is available.


Eric: please give me specific examples of situations where the Giants did NOT fire a coach who was this bad in recent history? I’m curious because you are stating that with such conviction,
Everyone is likely back...  
bw in dc : 11/6/2019 11:50 pm : link
Mara will say 2018 was mulligan#1 for Shurmur because the team still had the stench of Reese. And DG had yet to fully implement his "plan".

And he'll look at this year as mulligan#2 for Shurmur because (1) Eli fell over the cliff, (2)Jones started the majority of the games as a rookie, (3) injuries to Barkley, Engram, and Shepherd, (4) Tate's suspension, and (5) the D was laden with inexperience and youth. Which will benefit Bettcher. And I think Bettcher got a quasi-vote of confidence with the LW trade because he'll be a vital piece in the 3-4.

Finally, Gettleman is endowed with certain "Giants Way" rights, and that allows for a minimum tenure of at least five years.

So the circular error will continue into 2020...
Jury is still out...  
Rong5611 : 11/7/2019 7:07 am : link
On Shurmur. Depends on two things - 1) Is Jones getting better? 2) Did a complete meltdown occur (i.e.losing to the Skins, Fins and Jets). If he survives, I think they need to bring in a QB Coach for Jones and a real offensive coordinator. I don't think Shurmur will give up the play calling duties, but give him some help on the other stuff so he can be more of a HEAD COACH. Give Jones some additional voices.

If they lose to the Jets, Bettcher is toast right away. He's likely gone at the end of the season barring a dramatic/miraculous improvement on defense. They need a new voice on D, they aren't listening or getting it with this guy. He's in over his head.
James Bettcher is let go  
Drewcon40 : 11/7/2019 8:35 am : link
I don't see the Giants making the major change. I was shocked when they fired McAdoo and reacted to the Eli Manning benching.

I am not sure - I don't even think this Jets game means a lot to them as to if Shurmur loses he is on the hot seat.

Unfortunately, we are in a cycle of mediocrity where we are few years away.

Remember 2007 and 2011, before we went on those runs we were much better than we are now but still complained about mediocrity. I think 2007 was the "Skittish" remark and 2011 was when Steve Young called us a "middling team".

I think ownership gives this crew (with a new DC) another year.

I don't necessarily like it but that's what I'd expect.
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